Citizen Drawn Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 I think it's very possible actually. The negative outlook can pretty much guarantee it. Cynicism is very unattractive. Having a positive outlook isn't a pre-requisite to finding a partner, nor is cynicism or a negative outlook necessarily a limiting thing. Opposites frequently attract and strengthen each other. Eeyore was always capable of great compassion y'know.
Author Isolde Posted July 29, 2009 Author Posted July 29, 2009 I'm not cynical; I'm trying to curb my own expectations by adding a dose of pessimism. Major difference.
Citizen Drawn Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Don't worry Isolde. Many a guy has and many more will succumb to the charms of trying to rescue a lost soul...
Author Isolde Posted July 29, 2009 Author Posted July 29, 2009 Since I've gotten this far in the thread, I'll add this: 1) I have zero dating opportunities right now, for several reasons, some of them out of my control; and 2) I'm extremely picky when it comes to guys, in several areas, BUT, some of this is in my head, as I don't yet know what I want and need in an R. 3) I have never had an R so I don't even understand how this works at all. It doesn't really take a mathematician to realize that something has to change before I meet a guy I can spend some time with. Thing is, if condition 1) is met, 2) is lessened, as I like to give people a chance before deciding if there is potential. So, it's kind of the case that 1) needs to happen before I can work on figuring out what I want and need and the difference between those two things. SG once said something very apt. She said I need to stop thinking and start doing. But I can't do anything; therefore, I come here and make posts like this. Oh yeah, did I mention patience isn't my strong suit?
Citizen Drawn Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Actually nothing has to change you just have to be in the right place at the right time and meet the right person. You could of course use a dozen dating sites and force the issue but you'll probably end up feeling like you employed your partner rather than discovered them. If there was a magic formula to either winning or losing at this someone would have made a lot of money out of it. Instead many have made a lot of money out of trying to persuade others they have that magic formula. If you want to smack yourself around the head in the meantime while you work this out that's nobodies business but your own
Author Isolde Posted July 29, 2009 Author Posted July 29, 2009 I mean, I decided not to do dating sites, forcing things NEVER works for me. I just want to be able to come on here and post some humiliating bad date story to amuse y'all... (be careful what you wish for??) No, seriously, I do realize how random all this is... I guess it does drive me crazy in a sense.
PrincessOfDarkness Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 With coin tosses, there is 50/50 probability of being heads/tails at each toss. If you toss a coin 4 times and get heads, it is much more likely for it to be tails the next time (actually the probability is 1- (0.5x0.5x0.5x0.5x0.5) = 97% or so. I am not sure if what you are all implying is that Isolde's chances of dating success with the next guy are like tossing a coin. Of course this couldn't be further from the truth. If Isolde has "failed" at dating X number of previous guys, it more than likely is not due to some random act of fate (not that I know Isolde so I hope you don't find it offensive). It is more likely a combo of her personality/looks/dating skills etc. Given failures on previous occassions, it points out that probability of her dating success is highly weighted towards negative due to combo of previously mentioned traits. So the probability of her successfully dating any given guy is nowhere close to 50% ( and is a lot lower). However, having said all that the more guys she dates the better chance of success (even with highly weighted negative probability).
Green Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 You are by far one of the more amusing posters I happen to notice on this site. You are addicted to your frame of mind. I always believed your situation would have changed by now… It does shock me that some person doesn’t come along and just mess up your plans and fears and get forced into your life. The only advice I could give you, the advice I would give to myself in your situation is try to be happy and positive about what’s going on in your life and not put yourself down or feel sorry for yourself. If you find yourself thinking sad sorry for yourself thoughts, then actively stop yourself be happy for what you do have ignoring what you don’t and think of ways you can be happier and realize the cliché is true life’s a journey not a destination. Also like I said to you once before once you finally do find your special some one it won’t matter that you were alone for so long because that will be the past and you’ll be in the present.
periwink Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Isolde, I am completely totally and utterly with you on this one. In fact are you sure you're not me?? All of your posts I could have written myself. I have spent years walking to work thinking, today might be the day - then walking home thinking life sucks. Years getting ready for nights out, parties, holidays etc thinking, this could be it! Then it turns out it isn't. Instead I think I am now resigned to not being in a relationship, and I do believe that for some people it's a reality - there is no relationship for you, you're just not a relationship type. That's how I'm thinking now and I am settled on it.
utterer of lies Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 No, seriously, I do realize how random all this is... I guess it does drive me crazy in a sense. Good. There is hope.
utterer of lies Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Isolde, I am completely totally and utterly with you on this one. In fact are you sure you're not me?? All of your posts I could have written myself. I have spent years walking to work thinking, today might be the day - then walking home thinking life sucks. Years getting ready for nights out, parties, holidays etc thinking, this could be it! Then it turns out it isn't. Instead I think I am now resigned to not being in a relationship, and I do believe that for some people it's a reality - there is no relationship for you, you're just not a relationship type. That's how I'm thinking now and I am settled on it. It's great how you manage to optimize your life in respect to happiness. I'm in awe. A wonder you ever learned walking
periwink Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 It's great how you manage to optimize your life in respect to happiness. I'm in awe. A wonder you ever learned walking I don't really understand what you meant there Mr Lies but I assume it's a stab at my cynicism. Would I rather be one of my many many female friends who are in relationships with men they don't fancy, don't have anything in common with, and who in some cases they don't even like but are desperately clinging on to said relationship in order not to end up like poor me? No I'd rather be poor me than wash some man's socks who I can barely stand to look at never mind get into bed with. You think I'm exaggerating, two of my closest friends live like this. On the other hand, I know couples who are deeply in love and always have been, always will. Works for some, doesn't for others. I'd rather be the person who admits it doesn't work for me, than the person who pushes and pretends and sets up a whole scenario just for the sake of 'being in a relationship'.
Els Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 I think it's very possible actually. The negative outlook can pretty much guarantee it. Cynicism is very unattractive. Disagree. The bf and I both have a healthy dose of cynicism, and I wouldn't change that for anything.
Sam Spade Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 I don't really understand what you meant there Mr Lies but I assume it's a stab at my cynicism. Would I rather be one of my many many female friends who are in relationships with men they don't fancy, don't have anything in common with, and who in some cases they don't even like but are desperately clinging on to said relationship in order not to end up like poor me? No I'd rather be poor me than wash some man's socks who I can barely stand to look at never mind get into bed with. You think I'm exaggerating, two of my closest friends live like this. On the other hand, I know couples who are deeply in love and always have been, always will. Works for some, doesn't for others. I'd rather be the person who admits it doesn't work for me, than the person who pushes and pretends and sets up a whole scenario just for the sake of 'being in a relationship'. But that's the recurring problem i see on this type of threads --> obsession with the extremes. What about the middle ground - the generally decent relationships, where some things are great, some not so much, but on balance - reasonably happy? Look at other aspects of your life - is *everything* so perfect that just thinking about it makes you extatic? If course not. Bot overall, you're pretty happy. So, why should relationships be any different?
Sam Spade Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 I'm not cynical; I'm trying to curb my own expectations by adding a dose of pessimism. This only makes you more attractive (trust me, I'm a doctor !)
Sam Spade Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Actually nothing has to change you just have to be in the right place at the right time and meet the right person. You could of course use a dozen dating sites and force the issue but you'll probably end up feeling like you employed your partner rather than discovered them. Well the thought of the right place, right time pretty much infuriates me . While luck plays role, to predicate everything on pure chance is very unconstructive (and quite frankly - depressing). There is nothing wrong with "employing" (), your partner. In fact, the job analogy is pretty appropriate, because finding a good job is pretty much a function of being at the right place at the right time, *BUT* unless you've worked hard and long in advance to prepare yourself and get all the background work done, a lucky opportunity won't mean anything. So, logistics and luck matter a a lot - and I know full well how impossible dating may seem (Looking back almost a decade, I don't think it can be any more impossible than it is for a confused foreign grad student with no car, no money, living in a bad part of town; things took a dramatic turn eventually, but not just because of luck/logistics. It started with pulling personal **** together. So luck is no more than 50% of the equation (which is still pretty high).) So I'd recommend parallel (rather than sequential) processing of Isolde's list of points 1), 2) and 3)
Els Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 But that's the recurring problem i see on this type of threads --> obsession with the extremes. What about the middle ground - the generally decent relationships, where some things are great, some not so much, but on balance - reasonably happy? Look at other aspects of your life - is *everything* so perfect that just thinking about it makes you extatic? If course not. Bot overall, you're pretty happy. So, why should relationships be any different? I reiterate that it shouldn't have to be, and won't be, perfect. But surely you wouldn't want her to start a relationship with a guy whom she didn't feel anything for? Inasmuch as 'feeling' or 'relating' is in the mind, the main point is that it IS the case for HER mind... which will be the mind involved in the relationship. So regardless of how grey an area 'feeling' is, if she doesn't have it, that would put the relationship's chances at almost 0 anyway. So many people advise others that one should be sexually attracted to someone's looks, otherwise don't date them. How is 'relating' of lesser importance? I would argue that it should be of GREATER importance.
Citizen Drawn Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Well the thought of the right place, right time pretty much infuriates me . While luck plays role, to predicate everything on pure chance is very unconstructive (and quite frankly - depressing). I'm not sure where I predicated everything on luck. I do find it kind of annoying when someone assigns me a position I haven't taken. I'm actually quite a fan of Reschers work which suggests that you can skew luck in your favour - part of which is recognising that you will get an opportunity to be in the right place at the right time according to luck, hence you don't need to force the issue nor consign yourself to a lifetime of woe based on the fact that you haven't been in the right place at the right time Of course dating in using a methodical approach has it's merits (doing some background preparation, mentally preparing yourself a CV, improving on areas you think you are weak in, seeking out a mate through application and interview technique) but personally I think that suits one type of character and not another. Some might just see all of these things as a by-product of their natural development, enjoyment in and ability to go with the flow of existence Some people are also able to land amazing jobs by becoming naturally skilled it what they enjoy- it just depends on whether or not you have to work within a particular framework and need a safety net
Sam Spade Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Some might just see all of these things as a by-product of their natural development, enjoyment in and ability to go with the flow of existence Some people are also able to land amazing jobs by becoming naturally skilled it what they enjoy- it just depends on whether or not you have to work within a particular framework and need a safety net Sure, but that's a *very* high risk strategy, that nets a few Robert De Niros and endless legions of waiters/actors . So, I'll never be a bush pilot in Latin America, but I can make enough money on a job that I like anyway, and take a trip down there every once in a while. And guess what - that's good wnough . Just as it is possible to pursue your dreams without putting your entire life at risk, it is possible to find a suitable companion without putting too much expectations/risks into it.
Citizen Drawn Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Sure, but that's a *very* high risk strategy, that nets a few Robert De Niros and endless legions of waiters/actors . So, I'll never be a bush pilot in Latin America, but I can make enough money on a job that I like anyway, and take a trip down there every once in a while. And guess what - that's good wnough . Just as it is possible to pursue your dreams without putting your entire life at risk, it is possible to find a suitable companion without putting too much expectations/risks into it. I don't know why you're putting your entire life at risk here, seems a bit odd and dramatic to have come out with that. It's the difference between say, having to send out lots of CV's to an employer to find something that they want you to do, or figuring out that you can attract work because you've been out there taking an interest in what you do and meeting people that will put it your way. Just because you start off not attracting that work, doesn't mean you have to give up and claim it's because you haven't had your break yet and however many times you flip this coin in trying to attract it it's going to land up the wrong way. It doesn't mean the things you've been doing to try and attract that are WRONG it just means that you haven't quite perfected what it is you're doing yet. Like I say, different characters will have different approaches. One type will keep plugging away however hopeless it seems, one will give up and resign themselves to a life of woe, the other type won't even bother to try in the first place because it's just too damn scary for them.
Sam Spade Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 I don't know why you're putting your entire life at risk here, seems a bit odd and dramatic to have come out with that. It's the difference between say, having to send out lots of CV's to an employer to find something that they want you to do, or figuring out that you can attract work because you've been out there taking an interest in what you do and meeting people that will put it your way. Just because you start off not attracting that work, doesn't mean you have to give up and claim it's because you haven't had your break yet and however many times you flip this coin in trying to attract it it's going to land up the wrong way. It doesn't mean the things you've been doing to try and attract that are WRONG it just means that you haven't quite perfected what it is you're doing yet. Like I say, different characters will have different approaches. One type will keep plugging away however hopeless it seems, one will give up and resign themselves to a life of woe, the other type won't even bother to try in the first place because it's just too damn scary for them. Well, yeah. But the most likely character (in real life) is likely a combination of the 3 - the one that keeps plugging away no matter how hopeless it seems (but up to a point), that'd give up at another point that's a bit short of "all they can be" (but not too bad either), and the one that won't necessarily try anything radical (but why not a career branch-out or two) . That's how yearnings get reconciled with daily responsibilities etc.
Citizen Drawn Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Well, yeah. But the most likely character (in real life) is likely a combination of the 3 - the one that keeps plugging away no matter how hopeless it seems (but up to a point), that'd give up at another point that's a bit short of "all they can be" (but not too bad either), and the one that won't necessarily try anything radical (but why not a career branch-out or two) . That's how yearnings get reconciled with daily responsibilities etc. No that's just the way you would like people to be. Simple fact is you have people come on here that say they will never settle You have people come on here that say they will settle It's when someone says "settling is the only way to go", or ";not settling is the only way to go" that you realise they really do think their approach to life is the only one that ends up in the right results. Different characters have different natural abilities, some can do something radical go way outside their comfort zone and if it doesn't work out, pick themselves back up and do it again. Some people just can't envisage that and like to live within a framework. The trouble is, if you can't accept that some people would find your way of life either mundane or scary then you have something of a god complex.
Sam Spade Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 No that's just the way you would like people to be. Simple fact is you have people come on here that say they will never settle You have people come on here that say they will settle It's when someone says "settling is the only way to go", or ";not settling is the only way to go" that you realise they really do think their approach to life is the only one that ends up in the right results. Different characters have different natural abilities, some can do something radical go way outside their comfort zone and if it doesn't work out, pick themselves back up and do it again. Some people just can't envisage that and like to live within a framework. The trouble is, if you can't accept that some people would find your way of life either mundane or scary then you have something of a god complex. Yep, basically it's a cost-benefit calculation. There is only unhappiness if the utility function does not match the actual asset allocation . (Other than that, it makes no sense to insult each other's utility functions; suicide bombers are rational too ). And of course, you have the problem of people not being exactly sure what their utility functions are; It's very common , hence the pefectly understandable inclination for everybody to defend their hcoices; sometimes zealously . So, eventypologizing (unintentionally) may smell of a bit of a god complex . Most people are anxious not because they're dismissive of other's choices, but because they can't be sure of their own. And this uncertainty is pretty much one of the defining characteristics of the human situation, so I'd go as far as to argue that anybody who has no doubts what-so-ever about their choices may be boderline psychotic .
Citizen Drawn Posted July 29, 2009 Posted July 29, 2009 Yep, basically it's a cost-benefit calculation. There is only unhappiness if the utility function does not match the actual asset allocation . (Other than that, it makes no sense to insult each other's utility functions; suicide bombers are rational too ). And of course, you have the problem of people not being exactly sure what their utility functions are; It's very common , hence the pefectly understandable inclination for everybody to defend their hcoices; sometimes zealously . So, eventypologizing (unintentionally) may smell of a bit of a god complex . Most people are anxious not because they're dismissive of other's choices, but because they can't be sure of their own. And this uncertainty is pretty much one of the defining characteristics of the human situation, so I'd go as far as to argue that anybody who has no doubts what-so-ever about their choices may be boderline psychotic . There's a difference between defending your choices and imposing your own framework onto everyone else. Just as there's a difference between being comfortable with your choices and having no doubts whatsoever about them. Back to the original point, the outcome still comes down to which way up your coin lands
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