Ruby Slippers Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 I have been reading through some of the breakup threads, particularly those that discuss commitment phobes, and I am seeing so many cases of bait and switch just like the one that was pulled on me. In my case, the guy told me I was the love of his life, said he had never wanted to get married or have kids before me, introduced me to his whole family and circle of friends in the first few months, and quit the band he'd been in for 15 years and moved 500 miles to my city. He even withdrew some of his retirement savings and took the penalty hit to make the move, and seemed to be going all in. Then once he got here, he went all cold, distant, and "scared". The first two times I tried to break up with him, he said he "couldn't lose me" and promised to step up, but he couldn't seem to keep himself from eventually going cold and distant again. He said he would see a counselor with me or alone, whatever it took, but when I brought that up as a real possibility, he avoided it and refused to go, making lame excuses for why he couldn't. I eventually broke up with him 10 months ago, and outside of one text message, have had no contact with him since. The thing I am worried about most is being able to trust what any man says in the future. I have never had any problems trusting before, but now I wonder about the hidden motives behind everything any man says. I worry that I'll never be able to take the risk and go all in again. How do you trust after you've had something like this pulled on you?
Thaddeus Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 How do you trust after you've had something like this pulled on you?You know, it's very funny because this came up in conversation with a friend today. And I was immediately reminded of Mother Teresa's "Do It Anyway" prayer. People are often unreasonable, irrational, and self-centered. Forgive them anyway. If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives. Be kind anyway. If you are successful, you will win some unfaithful friends and some genuine enemies. Succeed anyway. If you are honest and sincere people may deceive you. Be honest and sincere anyway. What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight. Create anyway. If you find serenity and happiness, some may be jealous. Be happy anyway. The good you do today, will often be forgotten. Do good anyway. Give the best you have, and it will never be enough. Give your best anyway. In the final analysis, it is between you and God. It was never between you and them anyway. The only thing I could possibly add to tie-in to your question is: People will betray your trust. Trust anyway.
sedgwick Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 You know, I'm always the first one to dismiss self-help books as silly, but when a friend gave me Men Who Can't Love, I read it. And it describes EXACTLY your situation. Guy goes nuts for you, pursues you ardently, etc, and then suddenly freaks out and disappears when he has the commitment he seemed to want. Have you read it?
EmperorR Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 You don't, I still trust nobody. But I'm confused you dumped him, what did you expect him to do beg and beg? Smart of him for just that one text message and moving on. I'm sure if I was in his position quitting something i loved to do for years moving 500 miles, probably dealing with alot and then getting dumped ouch.
Author Ruby Slippers Posted July 23, 2009 Author Posted July 23, 2009 The only thing I could possibly add to tie-in to your question is: People will betray your trust. Trust anyway. Good stuff. Thanks. sedgwick, I did read that book right after the breakup. In spite of the fact that he sounds like a textbook CP, I still ask myself: "What was wrong with me? Why couldn't he commit to me?" That's the deep-down voice I don't like to admit is there, but it is. And I know that's a totally normal reaction. I will have to read the book again. But I'm confused you dumped him, what did you expect him to do beg and beg? I'm sure if I was in his position quitting something i loved to do for years moving 500 miles, probably dealing with alot and then getting dumped ouch. Um, no. You don't know the whole story, so don't judge me. I have never just dumped someone with no good reason. I gave him every opportunity to step up, and he couldn't or wouldn't. He pulled a giant 180, going from working hard to pin me down for a serious commitment to completely refusing to talk about the future in even the most minor of ways.
boldjack Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Well Ruby, This is one area of relationships I have a fair expertise in. I used to lie to women every time I took a breath. It kind of goes with the cheating. And it was because I learned from a woman, who lied to me then dumped me for a rich pipsqueak. I never wanted to trust a woman again, so when I met my present wife I had to make the conscious effort to trust. And it is an effort. We had to PROVE to each other, our honesty. Every time I would have those little doubts, I would have to pause, and remember that she was a fine , trustworthy person. It took time, and I found that the more I trusted her, the less inclined I was to lie, myself. So trust and honesty are two sides of the same coin. Your Ex , the (committment Phobe) really didn't give you the proper respect, you deserved. That doesn't mean that the next one won't. Now, Ruby, TRUST ME, when you find that special "trustworthy", man, you'll know.
Author Ruby Slippers Posted July 23, 2009 Author Posted July 23, 2009 Every time I would have those little doubts, I would have to pause, and remember that she was a fine , trustworthy person. So trust and honesty are two sides of the same coin. Now, Ruby, TRUST ME, when you find that special "trustworthy", man, you'll know. I never once lied to him, and I trusted him completely. I only mistrust someone if he gives me a reason to. Everything about him felt and seemed trustworthy. He seemed very honest -- to the point of bluntness and tactlessness at times. The problem is that not everyone is honest and not everyone has integrity. In fact, honesty seems to be a dying virtue. How do you know what you're dealing with before he pulls a fast one on you?
Giha Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 My ex told me she loved me all the time. A day before she broke up with me she sensed I felt something's wrong. She walked me to the elevator, kissed me passionately, said she loved me and I have nothing to worry about. I trusted her and when I got home I started planning a romantic evening with a dinner I'd cook myself, candles and some other stuff. the day after she kicked me out. I guess I should've known better
boldjack Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 As I said Ruby, Both you AND he have to prove it, for it to have any validity. When My wife and I decided to try to have an exclusive relationship, she alreadt knew about my past. I told her how lucky to find a person , wonderful enough to trust me. She corrected me and said that she was willing to "try", to trust me. Be trusting, but don't be blind.
LisaUk Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Have you read He's Scared She's Scared by Stephen Carter, he talks about when the partner or ex of a commitment phobe either becomes one due to lack of trust, not wanting to get hurt again or seeks one out for the same reasons, in the future. This trust thing is a big issue for me too, my ex had commitment problems, specifically gamaphobia (fear of marriage), he left me shortly after we, finally, set the date to marry, after 18 years together. I guess all I can say is that to love is to open yourself up to the possibility of being hurt, it's a risk, but one that is worth taking. Theddas, thank you for that prayer, that helps.
NopeNah Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Trust has to earned through actions, not freeley given.
Author Ruby Slippers Posted July 23, 2009 Author Posted July 23, 2009 Have you read He's Scared She's Scared by Stephen Carter, he talks about when the partner or ex of a commitment phobe either becomes one due to lack of trust, not wanting to get hurt again or seeks one out for the same reasons, in the future. Yes! This is what I'm afraid of! I'm afraid that what happened jaded me to the point that I'll never want to make a real commitment again. I'll definitely check out that book. I see it has a chapter called "Recovering from a Commitmentphobic Relationship". Could be helpful.
mammax3 Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 I agree with Boldjack. You have to try with the partner you believe to be worthy. It's hard, it's scary and you put yourself out there. Try and choose someone who will go slow with you, and if he won't, then it's better to know now. Trust yourself and go slow. Communication between the partners, maybe a bit of counselling for yourself if you think it's still a struggle, self esteem strengthening for you (cuz there's nothing 'wrong' with you - it was his decision to lie and it's something he needs to work on)...
LisaUk Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Yes! This is what I'm afraid of! I'm afraid that what happened jaded me to the point that I'll never want to make a real commitment again. I'll definitely check out that book. I see it has a chapter called "Recovering from a Commitmentphobic Relationship". Could be helpful. Let me know if its any good, I'm still trying to get a copy from the libary (out of work at the moment, I was a housewife see, so.....) anyway, I am getting some IC as well. I've been told commitment phobia is more common than people think, my counsellor is treating more and more people who have been "victims" of the CP. I really hope the book helps.
LisaUk Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 self esteem strengthening for you (cuz there's nothing 'wrong' with you - it was his decision to lie and it's something he needs to work on)... This is so true, it's his problem not yours. The very fact that you are concerned about how his behaviour may affect you and being able to trust again, just shows that you beleive in working on a relationship. I think your awareness of the situation is a good thing, with the right person, who will understand and go slow, you will be fine.
Author Ruby Slippers Posted July 24, 2009 Author Posted July 24, 2009 I agree with Boldjack. You have to try with the partner you believe to be worthy. It's hard, it's scary and you put yourself out there. Try and choose someone who will go slow with you, and if he won't, then it's better to know now. Trust yourself and go slow. Communication between the partners, maybe a bit of counselling for yourself if you think it's still a struggle, self esteem strengthening for you (cuz there's nothing 'wrong' with you - it was his decision to lie and it's something he needs to work on)... Yeah, I feel the relationship really put my self-esteem through the wringer. I am trying to look at it as a good test of my character and strength. I think I have held up OK through the whole recovery process, but a part of me remains upset and disappointed that I let someone take so much out of me. I know it's a good thing to be trusting and give people the benefit of the doubt, but sometimes I feel stupid and naive for having done it with him. It makes me sad to know that I will probably be more guarded next time, but looking back, I realize that I have grown more guarded and discriminating with every relationship. I guess that's a normal, healthy part of maturing and growing up. The hardest thing about accepting all this and moving on is that I just don't understand WHY. With every other relationship, the WHY was clear. Because I knew why things went wrong, I could accept it and move forward. In this case, I still don't understand why he behaved the way he did. I wish he had given me some kind of valid reason, beyond "I'm terrified". Even a painful truth would have been better than such a vague explanation that doesn't make sense. I can handle the truth. It's a lot harder to make sense of the inexplicable. Lisa, I ordered that book yesterday. I will let you know if it's helpful.
boldjack Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Ruby, Caution, in a relationship, isn't a bad thing. It doen't have to imply that you are not trusting, but that you trust, only as far as that trust is warranted.
LisaUk Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 The hardest thing about accepting all this and moving on is that I just don't understand WHY. With every other relationship, the WHY was clear. Because I knew why things went wrong, I could accept it and move forward. In this case, I still don't understand why he behaved the way he did. I wish he had given me some kind of valid reason, beyond "I'm terrified". Even a painful truth would have been better than such a vague explanation that doesn't make sense. I can handle the truth. It's a lot harder to make sense of the inexplicable. Lisa, I ordered that book yesterday. I will let you know if it's helpful. Hi Ruby I totally get where you are coming from. My ex went from "you make me so happy, feel so loved and secure" and us setting the date to marry, to coming out with a smokescreen excuse, which when I resolved it with him, he still left and then gave me any and every excuse he could come up with, all totally contradictory nonsense. An 8 year engaement really ought to have been a massive red flag to me, but well, they say love is blind. I too have had the "I'm scared" line. The hard thing to deal with is you go crazy trying to figure out what went wrong, how the relationship broke down, when in fact it didn't break down, not in the realistic sense anyway. What I mean is, when dealing with a CP, it is not something that you did or didn't do that caused them to flee, this about their issues, not yours. It's hard to except and I have spent 4 months beating myself up with trying to find answers, but it simply boils down to the fact that he has negative associations with marriage, due to witnessing a destructive and unloving marriage between his parents. There is no reason why your ex did this except that he has CP.
Author Ruby Slippers Posted July 24, 2009 Author Posted July 24, 2009 Jack, you're right. I was actually proud of myself for taking things more slowly and protecting myself better with him than I have in the past. But I couldn't do anything to protect myself from the emotional pain. That's the risk you take when you make a commitment in love. Lisa, you are such a sweetheart. It's all coming back to me now. All the CP crap. Ugh. I have been feeling blah thinking about all this the past few days, just feeling like what's the point if this is the kind of crap I have to look forward to with men. I am going to take some time away from work and look at the other book again.
broken_promises Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Hey Ruby... as you know, I just got out of my relationship with a CP. It really screws with your head and, like you, all I keep asking is how am I going to trust the next time I meet someone who says all the right things, makes all the right promises, etc. As for wanting an answer, I have been trying to view commitment phobia the same way I would view any other phobia. So, for example, if I was dating someone who was afraid of heights and I wanted to ride a ferris wheel, I would view it as a phobia that he had to deal with on his own and not some reflection on how he felt about me. And although it is soooo hard to not take it personally when the phobia is of commitment (and not heights or spiders or clowns) I just look and see the giant line of women he has done the same thing to - up to and including me. It is so hard to get over the anger and disappointment, though. What you thought your life was going to be together, who you thought he was based on how well he "sold" himself and his intentions to you in the beginning, how he turned out at the end. The line that keeps going through my head though when I start to feel that wave of sadness over the loss of what I thought was going to be is "And the people on the Titantic thought they were going on a vacation." (I can't remember what book it was from... one by Greg Behrendt, I think.) Basically, it is kind of like, things happen that we couldn't have known were going to happen based on the information given to us at the time. When I was first contemplating breaking up with my ex, YOU were the one that helped me sort things out in my very first post here. Your words: "I'm tempted to kick myself, but really, how could I have known he would go all weird on me? And how could you have known? You say he repeatedly told you he wanted to build a life together. We both believed in love and took a chance on someone -- that is not a bad thing." (On a side note, I really wish people would understand that we did NOT WANT to breakup with these men. They essentially forced us to do so with their own "backhanded breakup." In fact, the classic commitment phobe cannot commit EITHER WAY and cannot do the breaking up nor does he want to stay in the relationship so he will essentially make things so unbearable for the other person that they do the dirty work. I am sick of the "but you broke up with him!" response that gets thrown around when we are talking about the utter pain and agony involved in being with a CP. It is NOT the same as someone breaking up with another person because they are no longer in love or whatever. It is rife with conflict and uncertainty. You keep wanting to give the other person the benefit of the doubt and the CP keeps pulling away, breaking promises of commitment, etc. until you realize that things are never going to change.)
lizzylizliz Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 I agree completely. I HAD to split with my ex, he was treating me like crap. Then he made out he was all sad, so I said we could work it out...so he told me we could never be together again....and then told me how cut up he was about everything. He was and still is a major head****. Hurt me too much to stay, didn't want me to go, but then wouldnt have me back, and was hurt that I was gone. Those of us that broke up with the CPs are not to blame for our own misery...we're to thank ourselves for, for stopping the hurt and breaking the vicious cycle. Doesn't make it any easier. But we're free,a nd will be more completely one day. I've met a lovely guy, we've been on four dates....he's told me he wants us to wait before sleeping together, because he likes me too much to ruin it by rushing. Sounds cute...but I can't help but be suspicious. Damn my ex. I can't let him keep controlling me in this way by sabotaging my future relationships...and neither should you!!! See it as them still maintaining a degree of control over us, and it'll make you want to rebel. Love like you've never been hurt. You'll give your heart to someone one day, and they'll be the only person that's ever deserved it. And they won't break it
Trialbyfire Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Some questions for each and every one of you who feels they've been betrayed in some way: Did you survive each and every experience?Is every individual alike, that the future potential mates will betray you? If so, why?Think of your positive traits, before and after these experiences. Do you still possess these positive traits?Who honestly has control of who you are?Beyond the cynicism, for those of you who are cynical, what did you learn about yourselves in each of these experiences?Food for thought!
lizzylizliz Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Some questions for each and every one of you who feels they've been betrayed in some way: Did you survive each and every experience?Is every individual alike, that the future potential mates will betray you? If so, why?Think of your positive traits, before and after these experiences. Do you still possess these positive traits?Who honestly has control of who you are?Beyond the cynicism, for those of you who are cynical, what did you learn about yourselves in each of these experiences? Food for thought! You're a genius! People like you make people like us questions our cynicisms. Personally, i try to love like I've never been hurt...it's not gonna be the new guy's fault that someone else didn't appreciate me, after all.....just keep thinking, life is unpredictable, and in the space of a day, you could meet someone and have your whole life change. And if not? You'll always have yourself!
Author Ruby Slippers Posted July 25, 2009 Author Posted July 25, 2009 "And the people on the Titantic thought they were going on a vacation." That is pretty good. I will have to keep that in mind. Sometimes I get these intense flashes of memories, moments that seemed so real and heartfelt. It's so hard to reconcile those with what he turned into. He went from being my closest confidante, my most passionate and loving lover, my biggest supporter, to being absent and just not giving a crap. Ugh. When I was first contemplating breaking up with my ex, YOU were the one that helped me sort things out in my very first post here. Your words: We all have our moments of strength. I do remember that. It was around the time I was feeling very resolute about the decision I'd made. I know it's right. (On a side note, I really wish people would understand that we did NOT WANT to breakup with these men. They essentially forced us to do so with their own "backhanded breakup." In fact, the classic commitment phobe cannot commit EITHER WAY and cannot do the breaking up nor does he want to stay in the relationship so he will essentially make things so unbearable for the other person that they do the dirty work. I am sick of the "but you broke up with him!" response that gets thrown around when we are talking about the utter pain and agony involved in being with a CP. I KNOW. I have read that a number of times on this forum, that the dumper feels no pain, and it really pisses me off! Just not the case. Thank you for making this point so well. Today I downloaded 10 of Rolling Stone's picks for Top 50 Albums of All Time, and I'm listening to The Beatles' Revolver this evening. It's pretty epic, and somehow puts all this in perspective.
Author Ruby Slippers Posted July 25, 2009 Author Posted July 25, 2009 Sounds cute...but I can't help but be suspicious. Damn my ex. I can't let him keep controlling me in this way by sabotaging my future relationships...and neither should you!!! See it as them still maintaining a degree of control over us, and it'll make you want to rebel. Love like you've never been hurt. You'll give your heart to someone one day, and they'll be the only person that's ever deserved it. And they won't break it Yes! I am scared that I'll meet this amazing guy and hold my STUPID ex's deception and mistakes against him. I don't want to do that. I never have before. I hope I won't in the future. I am really pissed at him for what he did. I didn't deserve that at all. What makes it sadder is that I don't even think he meant to. I think he's just messed up in the head. That almost makes it tragic. Bleh. Not my problem. You're so right, of course. They're not gonna keep us down. Screw that!
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