Ruby Slippers Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Ariadne, no one is denying that the world has changed. All these consequences are the price of the modern age. But every individual has to take responsibility for his/her own health and well-being. I think your point holds more water when you're talking about very low-income individuals who do not have the time to exercise and plan meals well, or who don't have the educational resources to learn about healthy eating and exercise habits. For people like us, with reasonably comfortable lifestyles and working Internet connections, there is no real excuse for not being informed and establishing good habits. My mother is 62 years old, she works a full-time job and takes care of my dad and the household, and she still manages to find time and energy to eat a healthy diet, exercise regularly, and stay in fantastic shape.
Ariadne Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 The trends are disturbing, no doubt. But the fact is that people choose a sedentary lifestyle, they choose to eat crap. It's not about blaming anyone or anything, it's about taking responsibility for one's own health and well-being. There is another huge problem nowadays... and is that people are using food for drug. People are unhappy, living very stressful lifestyles of long work hours and lacking fulfilling relationships (friends, family, love) by being isolated and they are using food for pleasure. Corporations of course know this fact, and are making people food addicted. Food addiction is real, and people are falling trap of businesses that want to profit from them by making them eat non stop. Of course it's not obvious to notice this, and you imagine people are eating chocolate shakes because they don't care.
lora22 Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 The trends are disturbing, no doubt. But the fact is that people choose a sedentary lifestyle, they choose to eat crap. It's not about blaming anyone or anything, it's about taking responsibility for one's own health and well-being. I completely agree with this. Blaming others, whether that's the food industry or someone else, is just a way of justifying why it's not their fault they're overweight, and why it's not their responsibility to be healthy. It's horsesh*t.
Thaddeus Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 There is another huge problem nowadays... and is that people are using food for drug. People are unhappy, living very stressful lifestyles of long work hours and lacking fulfilling relationships (friends, family, love) by being isolated and they are using food for pleasure. Corporations of course know this fact, and are making people food addicted. Food addiction is real, and people are falling trap of businesses that want to profit from them by making them eat non stop. Of course it's not obvious to notice this, and you imagine people are eating chocolate shakes because they don't care.There's nothing in here to disagree with. You're right on the money. I've never struggled with addiction other than a relatively-short addiction to cigarettes so I can't really speak to how difficult it is to break an addiction. (I stopped smoking one sunny afternoon many years ago and haven't been interested in having another smoke since.) But the point is that addiction is a choice. Blaming others is a useless and futile exercise. As soon as the addicted party steps up and takes responsibility for his/her life then they can turn it around. But if they continue to wallow in their addiction, whose fault is that?
Sam Spade Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 There is another huge problem nowadays... and is that people are using food for drug. People are unhappy, living very stressful lifestyles of long work hours and lacking fulfilling relationships (friends, family, love) by being isolated and they are using food for pleasure. Corporations of course know this fact, and are making people food addicted. Food addiction is real, and people are falling trap of businesses that want to profit from them by making them eat non stop. Of course it's not obvious to notice this, and you imagine people are eating chocolate shakes because they don't care. This is fine, and I know the food industry is interested in making the food more addictive - literally; I also know the high that a box of icecream or chips can give me on the couch , and I indulge every one in a while; sometimes for weeks on end; don't get me started on the giant cheesecakes, the pizza, etc. But I still have the common sense that keeping on going like this will turnme into a hideous monster, so eventually I restrain myself. So, sure, the environment is all geared towards making getting fat easier than ever. But that's still not an excuse to give up. let me put it this way: the effort needed to NOT be fat is way less than the effort that our ancestors had to excert to procure any food at all.
Trialbyfire Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 People are sedentary because jobs are sedentary and people are working longer hours than ever. Where both men and women work. And people eat crap because it's what is available. Women don't stay at home to make home meals, and they eat what is the fastest to deal with the demands.There are a million excuses to Sunday but if people have leisure time, they have time to get fit and cook a decent meal. People are responsible for themselves. Even when I worked out of home, doing 60 - 80 hour work weeks, my exercise regime was consistent and so were my eating habits. End result, I gained no fat. Working from home, my job consists of sitting my arse, in front of my computer 60 - 80 hours per week. Same results. There's only one constant to people. It's themselves.
bean1 Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Oh please. I am 5'5, 119lbs, and I can deadlift 170lbs and squat 135lbs. Did I also mention that I used to be a good 50+lbs overweight? 10 years ago before my metabolism hit a brick wall? With a gut pouring out and getting winded going down a staircase? Most people are fat because they sit on their ass all day, don't work out, and can't be bothered to eat properly. It is a lot cheaper and easier to chop up a head of broccoli then to drive the mall and drink a Jamba juice. NO MORE EXCUSES! The first thing fat people need to do is stop making excuses!! From a former fat person to a current fat person - it is YOU and only you who can change!
Un-Conventional Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 I hate to sound like another person coming down on you Ariadne, but everyone is right. I agree with you that the world seems to encourage badeating with the prices, great taste, advertising, etc. And yeah food can become an addiction and used as a drug, and therefore should be treated as such if it becomes an addiction(i.e. change your eating habits, watch what you eat, and exercise). Alchohol is just as addictive as food (for some people) and I'm sure you wouldn't excuse somebody for being an alchoholic because they said "it was the advertising and beer companys that made me this way" right? It's ultimately a choice, granted it's hard to choose the right thing, but it still a choice so you will get out what you put in, figuratively and literally speaking. Once again I'm speaking from experience because I made my share of excuses in the past but it can be done with some dedication.
Ariadne Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 addiction is a choice. addicted party steps up and takes responsibility industry is interested in making the food more addictive - literally I still have the common sense...eventually I restrain myself. People are responsible for themselves. the world seems to encourage bad eating food can become an addiction and used as a drug It's ultimately a choice I see the problem of obesity in America as a huge tidal wave, and fighting it is like fighting a losing battle. I think you people are blind.. It's a huge problem that goes beyond the individual will. You can see this by looking at the trend. Is no mistake when the problem is so massive.
Thaddeus Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 You are free to think as you please, that's absolutely your prerogative. Whether it's valid or not, or conforms to reality, is another issue.
Trialbyfire Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Maybe I'm missing something. To the best of my knowledge, I've never been force fed. Maybe others get force fed?
butcher's hook Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 I see the problem of obesity in America as a huge tidal wave, and fighting it is like fighting a losing battle. She does have a point. how come you don't see the same level of epidemic in obesity in European or South American countries, why is this exclusive to North America? People in Italy or France, work out four hours a day and curb their calories? I don't think so. Have you seen how they eat in Europe and what lifestyles they lead? I ride my bike to work a few times a week, and walk to the stores as much as I can. I only drive on weekends when going to visit family or friends and to run errands that involve carrying lots of packages/bags. How many people walk or take their bikes to the store? I bet most just sit their asses in their car just to go a few blocks away to pick up milk. Though personal responsibility does come into play, you have to look at the bigger picture FOR SURE
Adunaphel Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 My ex-bf was very obese. I like average-to-skinny men better, but my ex bf - whom I dated for 4 years - was very obese, and if I were single I'd have no problem dating overweight men again. That is, if I liked their personality, if they liked me, if I liked their looks enough, and if there were no huge relationship issues attached to the extra weight.
Ariadne Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Though personal responsibility does come into play, you have to look at the bigger picture FOR SURE When you look at the charts, do you really think someone or something is going to stop that?! Yes, some individuals, with lot of effort, will manage to stay in shape. But the system is not set up for it. It's the opposite. This is like saying you can stop the destruction of the environment by recycling cans.
GorillaTheater Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 When you look at the charts, do you really think someone or something is going to stop that?! Yes, some individuals, with lot of effort, will manage to stay in shape. But the system is not set up for it. It's the opposite. This is like saying you can stop the destruction of the environment by recycling cans. I agree. Surrender to the lard.
Ariadne Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 To the best of my knowledge, I've never been force fed. Maybe others get force fed? People "need" to eat. That is half of the problem. People don't need to drink alcohol or smoke. That's why this is so dangerous.
butcher's hook Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 If you have travelled outside of the United States and had a meal abroad you realize just how dangerous the food portions in the USA are. If you order a meal in Europe, for example, you get what a normal portion of food should be on a regular sized plate with a regularly measured portion of meat vs veggies vs oil and vinegar to dress a salad, not a conction of sugars and fats made into a thick cream dressing to drench vegetables in past their natural state and flavour. When you order a meal at a restuarant in the USA the plate is usually more like a platter, it is a heaping mountain of food that in Europe would feed three people not one. Then you turn around and expect people to conform to a daily caloric intake that does not match up with what the social standard is and you want people who get obese to stop eating. Well stop feeding people ridiculous options. I mean look at McDonalds alone, a big mac is the most disgusting creation ever. TWO hamburgers on top of each other packed on with artery clogging crap served with a heaping side of lard fried potatoes and a sugary drink. Of course that was not enough food so they had to super size all that to make it a four hanmburger burger with twice the size of lard potatoes and twice the sugary drink. ONLY IN AMERICA!
Trialbyfire Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 People "need" to eat. That is half of the problem. People don't need to drink alcohol or smoke. That's why this is so dangerous.People can buy "fresh" food and "make" their own dinner. There's nothing to stop them from doing so. I think we need to agree to disagree on this. I find it ridiculous that people take the victim's road for being fat. You're not a victim, except of your own laziness and eating habits. (Generic "you".)
Ariadne Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 People in Italy or France, work out four hours a day and curb their calories? I don't think so. Have you seen how they eat in Europe and what lifestyles they lead? True about meal sizes. Also, people in places where the problem of obesity is not pervasive, work less hours, have more time to enjoy life, exercise, and prepare meals, and usually less problems with depression.
lora22 Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 When you look at the charts, do you really think someone or something is going to stop that?! Yes, some individuals, with lot of effort, will manage to stay in shape. But the system is not set up for it. It's the opposite. This is like saying you can stop the destruction of the environment by recycling cans. I don't disagree with many of the individual points that you make; it's what you're using those points to argue that I completely disagree with. It's pretty common knowledge know what's healthy and what's not, so it's not a big secret that eating fast food and many other things will make you fat and generally unhealthy. There is PLENTY of food out there - it's a personal and individual CHOICE what someone buys and consumes, and HOW MUCH OF IT they choose to eat in one sitting, or in a day. It is also a personal CHOICE to sit on your butt and do nothing. If you were arguing about the PRICE of eating right, sure, CERTAIN lifestyles (such as vegan) are privileged. It also does not require "a lot" of effort to stay in shape - it simply requires a few healthful choices.
butcher's hook Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 When you look at the charts, do you really think someone or something is going to stop that?! Yes, some individuals, with lot of effort, will manage to stay in shape. But the system is not set up for it. It's the opposite. This is like saying you can stop the destruction of the environment by recycling cans. That's exactly the problem, the bandaid solution of going to a gym and killing yourself to lose the extra lard is not the answer. The answer is promoting a healthier overall lifestyle, walk insted of taking a car, take public transit to run small errands. Stop leading sedentary lifestyles, a car is not an extension of your ass you know. It is a form of transporation. GEt out of the car to have a meal don't drive through a fast food window to eat food. Instead of having a fast food outlet on every single block have and organic farmer's booth and motivate people to eat raw and natural foods for lunch on the go. A heaping salad of veggies with some proteins fills you up for the entire afternoon and will tie you over well into dinner. A disgusting microwavable pizza pocket burrito has 0 nutritional value and leaves you hungry an hour later. But name one tv or print ad that stands out for you that was about brussle sprouts or brocolli? Name me one. I can say Pizza Pocket, or Pop Tart, and everyone can name at least one commercial that stands out for them. Serve reasonable portions at restaurants and consume reasonable amounts of alcohol if you want to lead a healthy lifestyle. You don't pump a society up with toxic chemicals at dagerously hight levels and then expect this uneducated bunch to resort to a healthy lifestyle when the "drugs" are still being pushed all around them. I hardly ever order out, when I do my guilty pleasure is thai food. One pad thai feeds me for two nights/dinners in a row. ONE portion for two people is what people are accustomed to consuming here, why? Why do restaurants do that? If I sit around watching tv and I eat that coming home from work I can get distracted and if I am not careful I could probably down the whole thing in one sitting. Mind you I get full half way through but I can see how some days you can just eat the entire thing, it is a slippery sloap that starts off just like that if you are not conscious of what you are doing. And why should I have to watch my consumption when I am ordering a meal out, why can't they just serve me a reasonable healthy potion and that's that? Nutrisystem and Weightwatchers has made millions from serving people normal portions of food, THAT's their big secret, they serve normal portions of food. They serve what is deemed as "globally standard" size portions of food. :laugh: That's how fecked up our society is that we take something completely normal and make it into a billion dollar industry capitalizing on the ignorance of our own people. Reading your comments here make me see that some of you people are brainwashed into thinking you are a cut above society because you can control yourselves. You know what, you do have an advatage to those who have not caught on, but to take it a step further and to look down upon those who struggle with a system that COMPLETELY contradicts itself for capital gain and at the expense of the average person, is pretty low.
Trialbyfire Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 If you were arguing about the PRICE of eating right, sure, CERTAIN lifestyles (such as vegan) are privileged.I disagree unless you only buy "superfoods" which are the exclusive rage of the minute. While not a vegan, around 2/3rds of my food intake are fruits and veggies. As well, I've recently gotten hooked on tofu. It's actually cut back on my food bill. Not that junk food has ever been part of my shopping but I do know the cost. It's not cheap to eat junk so I don't feel that people have any excuse to knock back that pint of ice cream in one sitting or snarfle the big bag of chips. It's both useless calories and a waste of money. It also does not require "a lot" of effort to stay in shape - it simply requires a few healthful choices.I couldn't agree with you more. One of the easiest things to do, is to workout when you wake up and are feeling energetic. Stop being lazy.
lora22 Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Reading your comments here make me see that some of you people are brainwashed into thinking you are a cut above society because you can control yourselves. You know what, you do have an advatage to those who have not caught on, but to take it a step further and to look down upon those who struggle with a system that COMPLETELY contradicts itself for capital gain and at the expense of the average person, is pretty low. I really don't think anyone in this thread is looking down and feeling superior to people who overeat and don't exercise. That said, last time I checked people generally have the ability to read (books, magazines, newspapers, etc. - this info is all there) and this stuff is also all over the news, in movies, on tv, in some commercials...add to that, people generally have the ability to THINK - so I don't think you have a valid argument.
Ruby Slippers Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 I hardly ever order out' date=' when I do my guilty pleasure is thai food. One pad thai feeds me for two nights/dinners in a row.[/quote'] Same here. I ordered a thai dish for delivery the other night and got two dinners and a lunch out of ONE dish.
Ariadne Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 You don't pump a society up with toxic chemicals at dagerously hight levels and then expect this uneducated bunch to resort to a healthy lifestyle when the "drugs" are still being pushed all around them. Yes, that is the problem. And people tend to go the easiest route. They become prays. And then you have the other industry to fix the problem, with lap bands and tons of useless medication.
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