Island Girl Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Einstein's definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. This is such a pet peeve and I mean no disrespect -- but everyone should quit quoting this. If this was true" 1) All babies who are trying to learn to walk and falling down over and over again - are insane. 2) The person who attempts to run a mile in a certain time but falls just shy again and again would be insane. 3) The kid shooting hoops and missing again and again is insane. And those are just a few examples. Sometimes we try the same thing over and over - and are successful. Sometimes we do the same things we have been doing but the other person reacts differently than they have previously. Sometimes we do the same things we did in failed relationships with others and find success. Sorry for the T/J Phateless. Like I said the saying (that is WAY over quoted and over used) is a pet peeve. On topic - I think you should really look into BPD. After reading your post and the subsequent one mentioning it there seemed to be some similarities. You'd be able to make a better assessment than I obviously. In any case you two seem to be oil and water. And the arguing/fighting is happening all the time. What is the draw? Why have you been trying to work it out?
Author Phateless Posted July 23, 2009 Author Posted July 23, 2009 This is such a pet peeve and I mean no disrespect -- but everyone should quit quoting this. If this was true" 1) All babies who are trying to learn to walk and falling down over and over again - are insane. 2) The person who attempts to run a mile in a certain time but falls just shy again and again would be insane. 3) The kid shooting hoops and missing again and again is insane. And those are just a few examples. Sometimes we try the same thing over and over - and are successful. Sometimes we do the same things we have been doing but the other person reacts differently than they have previously. Sometimes we do the same things we did in failed relationships with others and find success. Sorry for the T/J Phateless. Like I said the saying (that is WAY over quoted and over used) is a pet peeve. On topic - I think you should really look into BPD. After reading your post and the subsequent one mentioning it there seemed to be some similarities. You'd be able to make a better assessment than I obviously. In any case you two seem to be oil and water. And the arguing/fighting is happening all the time. What is the draw? Why have you been trying to work it out? lol wow you make a great point about the insanity thing. The draw is that I got out of a 5 year relationship and thought I would be single forever and was happy about it. After a year and a half of being single I met my gf and the connection was insane. We loved each other so passionately that I guess I just don't want to give up on it.
Island Girl Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 The draw is that I got out of a 5 year relationship and thought I would be single forever and was happy about it. After a year and a half of being single I met my gf and the connection was insane. We loved each other so passionately that I guess I just don't want to give up on it. The things I see that you do - that are IMO mistakes are apologizing when there is no reason to and even entertaining the idea of talking with her about things that are so ridiculous. If she cooked dinner even though she knew you weren't coming and was mad at YOU for it - or got mad at you because you didn't follow through with those plans when you told her you couldn't - then SHE is in the wrong. So apologizing just gives her validation that you did do something wrong. In any of the situations you mentioned you should have just said, "this is ridiculous and I am not going to discuss it. You are creating drama that is stupid and unnecessary. I would love to talk to you/spend time with you/do anything else but I will hang up/leave if you persist with this." Then you follow through. If she calls and wants to go down the same road you tell her the same thing and wait for the response. If she carries on with it you hang up. If you don't get either an apology call or a call with a brighter attitude and that is the end of the relationship then so be it. Some situations you simply do not buy into. These episodes are examples of those situations. There is no arguing/rationalizing/discussing with crazy. If you participate it just makes you crazy. She has got to know that you will not be freaked out on and manipulated. She has to learn you WILL walk and to be with you/have access to you then she has to act respectfully and use her effing brain.
Island Girl Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 being bitchy, mean, rude and sarcastic toward me, but her argument/communication style is still terrible to deal with. At that time I told her I was losing feelings for her. I don't see the point of conversation if that is how you are being treated. Foot down AT THAT MOMENT regardless of what is going on and she changes immediately or you hang up/walk. End of story. If you are out somewhere and you drove - you say "time to go" and she gets up and leaves with you so that you can take her directly home and make sure she gets home okay (I mean you do care about her and you are taking the high road). Keep your mouth shut the entire time unless she simmers down and begins acting like a human being again. If it goes on the whole way to her house then so be it. Get her home and leave. If SHE drove then you excuse yourself - call a cab and jet. As previously stated if she calls to do this then you tell her this is unacceptable and you hang up. Draw some very much needed boundaries and stick to them Phateless. Get a clear picture of how you will be treated and then stick to it. She either rises to the occasion or it's over.
Author Phateless Posted July 23, 2009 Author Posted July 23, 2009 Thanks Island Girl, that's great advice that I've always wanted to follow, but I guess I know what her reaction will be. I guess I thought I was showing her I care by sticking it out with her and talking about it.
Island Girl Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Thanks Island Girl, that's great advice that I've always wanted to follow, but I guess I know what her reaction will be. I guess I thought I was showing her I care by sticking it out with her and talking about it. Accepting bad behavior and not adhering to those basic unshakable boundaries (not accepting absolutely insane and erratic attacks) just is demeaning to you, causes her to lose respect for you, and is doormat behavior. You need to care enough about yourself that you don't participate or entertain that. It also shows you care enough about the relationship to not allow stupid crap to affect you or impact the relationship. You'd rather have it over than diseased. And it shows you care enough about her not to encourage her to be crazy and angry over bullshyte but instead encourage a more rational way of communicating. She needs to learn how to handle her emotions (among other things) but it starts there. 1
Author Phateless Posted July 23, 2009 Author Posted July 23, 2009 Accepting bad behavior and not adhering to those basic unshakable boundaries (not accepting absolutely insane and erratic attacks) just is demeaning to you, causes her to lose respect for you, and is doormat behavior. You need to care enough about yourself that you don't participate or entertain that. It also shows you care enough about the relationship to not allow stupid crap to affect you or impact the relationship. You'd rather have it over than diseased. And it shows you care enough about her not to encourage her to be crazy and angry over bullshyte but instead encourage a more rational way of communicating. She needs to learn how to handle her emotions (among other things) but it starts there. Very true. I've been telling her for a month that she needs to learn how to handle her own emotions, that it's not my job to handle them for her.
Thaddeus Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Very true. I've been telling her for a month that she needs to learn how to handle her own emotions, that it's not my job to handle them for her.Good luck with that. Seriously. Some women tend to have a much more difficult time separating their emotions from the equation. Now, sometimes that's good. But other times, such as not having the ability to control herself, is another thing entirely. It's just the way that some women are wired. She may not be able to change it even if she wants to. It's not for lack of character, it's just that she may be hard-wired that way.
Island Girl Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Very true. I've been telling her for a month that she needs to learn how to handle her own emotions, that it's not my job to handle them for her. Telling her and leaving her to do it or else are two different things. She doesn't have to work at emotional management when you are there regardless. I'm sure she doesn't act like this at work so she CAN - she just doesn't. And she has no incentive to do so. Once you address a major issue like this appropriately and it is not addressed then the next step is intolerance of it. If it still isn't addressed then it becomes the dealbreaker that broke the camel's back.
Author Phateless Posted July 23, 2009 Author Posted July 23, 2009 It's just the way that some women are wired. She may not be able to change it even if she wants to. It's not for lack of character, it's just that she may be hard-wired that way. I'm hoping that's not the case...
aloneanddepressed Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 God, this thread is nuts! I'm sorry if your GF is crazy or whatever you are trying to get at, and it is wrong of her to get that upset, especially if you really said you would be late ahead of time. Honestly, and I could be wrong, but I think maybe there is more to this story though. Maybe there have been other incidents, where its not entirely her fault or possibly not at all? Some of that aggression that night may have been what you call a build up from other times you were totally inconsiderate. I think she was upset because she felt she was put last over your uncle. Why would she act like this just because of this incident, I think there was something more behind it, unless she is just a mental case.....if so it is what it is. Your uncle is family, and its very important, but sounds like she was feeling left out, or taking this as an indicator of your feelings for her, or how important she is to you. The thing is, I don't think you would be on here making this discussion into a HUGE ordeal, if you knew she was guilty one. Its almost like you are trying to convince yourself you have done no wrong. I feel guilty about things I said to my BF, or the way I acted, and that is why I come on here analyzing it and hoping I wasn't wrong, but deep down I know I was a lot at fault. Not saying he was not inconsiderate, but I know should have communicated things better. You act like you are a saint to be honest. If she is so wrong, then duh, dump her. Who can deal with constant arguments like that. That is weird, if she got extremely upset, after you already told her you would be late. I still think she was feeling like your last priority. That may have been where most of the anger was leaning towards. Did you think about asking her to hang out with you and your uncle, or try showing you are still thinking of her even though you have other plans? Ok, maybe I'm way off. Oh well, just some thoughts.
Author Phateless Posted July 23, 2009 Author Posted July 23, 2009 I admit I haven't handled things perfectly either, but I always make an effort to admit when I'm wrong right away. Thing is, she jumps straight to high-intensity drama every time anything comes up. She escalates things right away and turns really small things into a bigger deal than they are. It FEELS like it's the end of the world to her even over something small. That's the problem, she doesn't recognize the difference between something tiny that a normal person would just let go and something that we need to fight about. Make sense? She got furious at me for eating a sandwich before I came home for dinner one time. The situation was this: -I get super weak when really hungry - low blood sugar, weak muscle control -years ago in a motorcycle accident i almost passed out from shock because i was so weak and hungry this incident -i had a 50 mile motorcycle ride to get home to her after work -before i left work i told her i was eating a sandwich before getting on the bike for safety reasons -get to her house and tell her not hungry yet and she flips out at me saying i'm being inconsiderate about us eating together. The places I have handled things incorrectly are like was said earlier - there are times where I try to make everyone happy and end up being late or changing the plan on her, but that doesn't happen very often and I always try to apologize right away if she's reasonable. It's usually her being upset about me wanting to do something that I think is perfectly reasonable - take time away to hang out with my friends, etc.
aloneanddepressed Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 I admit I haven't handled things perfectly either, but I always make an effort to admit when I'm wrong right away. Thing is, she jumps straight to high-intensity drama every time anything comes up. She escalates things right away and turns really small things into a bigger deal than they are. It FEELS like it's the end of the world to her even over something small. That's the problem, she doesn't recognize the difference between something tiny that a normal person would just let go and something that we need to fight about. Make sense? She got furious at me for eating a sandwich before I came home for dinner one time. The situation was this: -I get super weak when really hungry - low blood sugar, weak muscle control -years ago in a motorcycle accident i almost passed out from shock because i was so weak and hungry this incident -i had a 50 mile motorcycle ride to get home to her after work -before i left work i told her i was eating a sandwich before getting on the bike for safety reasons -get to her house and tell her not hungry yet and she flips out at me saying i'm being inconsiderate about us eating together. Wow, that is way wrong. The sandwich incident that is. As someone with "low blood sugar", I HAVE to eat. Someone should understand this, and no reason to get upset. This is your health, which is the most important thing. They should consider your health, and nothing should be said about it. IF she flipped out over that, that is way beyond weird. I would never get upset about something like that. I am one to overreact, but that is insane I have to say. On another note, I just thought of something. my BF told me that during fights, he always tells the girl "OK, your right", just in attempt to stop the fight. Well, he did this several time we had disagreements. Of course, I knew he was just saying it to be saying it. Its basically a lie, although its nice of him to try to reason with me. I realize he is trying to stop the fight, but don't say things you don't mean. Just wondering, if you ever tell her she is right, even if she's not. In my case, it just made me more upset, because I knew he was lying lol.
Author Phateless Posted July 23, 2009 Author Posted July 23, 2009 Thanks. Yeah the sandwich thing blew my mind. I should have broken up with her on the spot but I didn't because I loved her and wanted so badly for it to work. She'll apologize insincerely to me to try to get me to calm down after I'm furious. I will try to admit things to her to get her to calm down and be reasonable too but it just feels so hopeless sometimes. It's mostly her being difficult and defensive and justifying everything when we talk things out and being too stubborn to admit when she's wrong until I push her. Then she'll admit it insincerely and negate it immediately by telling me her side again. So yeah it's mostly her doing that.
Star Gazer Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Would greatly appreciate your perspective! If you link another thread, do it in a PM? I don't want to clutter this thread. Thanks so much SG! I haven't posted much about her in the past year. Just want to make sure you're not confusing her and my ex. I'm not confusing the two. Whether you've started a thread, or have brought up this relationship in others' threads, you've been talking about THIS girl. The history of this relationship is directly relevant to your current situation, is it not? I mean, you're just as much at fault for your fighting cycle as she is: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1963295&postcount=1
Author Phateless Posted July 23, 2009 Author Posted July 23, 2009 Your point is understood. That post is also 8 months old. The difference is that she brings up really inane stuff and expects me to validate her irrational behavior, whereas I am very careful about what I want to bring up with her. I let little things go to avoid fights. Often times something bugs me and I catch myself and think "this isn't worth the discussion, it's too small." She's not able to qualify these things on her own. The sandwich thing is a perfect example.
Thaddeus Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Your point is understood. That post is also 8 months old. The difference is that she brings up really inane stuff and expects me to validate her irrational behavior, whereas I am very careful about what I want to bring up with her. I let little things go to avoid fights. Often times something bugs me and I catch myself and think "this isn't worth the discussion, it's too small." She's not able to qualify these things on her own. The sandwich thing is a perfect example.Can you see the red flag here? You're censoring yourself because you're afraid that she's going to go ballistic. I mean, sure, we all have to censor ourselves from time to time. We DO need to engage brain before opening mouth. But when it comes to the situation whereby you're afraid to express any sort of opinion that just might be contrary to what she believes because you think she'll either erupt into a Niagara of tears or start whacking you with the closest frypan, then there's a problem. My original question remains: How long are you willing to tolerate living like that?
Trialbyfire Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Phateless, I highly recommend finding someone who doesn't escalate. I think that you can get agitated, like myself, and sometimes we can't always back off when angry. That your g/f is twice as bad, going for the high intensity drama right out the gate, can make a horrible dynamic. I found one who doesn't escalate and what a relief it is!
amymarieca Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Take a moment and imagine two people together in love. How do they act towards each other? What things do they say to each other? Do they make each other feel good? Now take a moment and compare that to the situation you are in. Whether you are to blame or she is, this is definitely a toxic relationship that needs to end. Sometimes no matter how much you care for someone, it doesn't mean you can be with them forever.
zicke Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 I admit I haven't handled things perfectly either, but I always make an effort to admit when I'm wrong right away. Thing is, she jumps straight to high-intensity drama every time anything comes up. She escalates things right away and turns really small things into a bigger deal than they are. It FEELS like it's the end of the world to her even over something small. That's the problem, she doesn't recognize the difference between something tiny that a normal person would just let go and something that we need to fight about. Make sense? She got furious at me for eating a sandwich before I came home for dinner one time. The situation was this: -I get super weak when really hungry - low blood sugar, weak muscle control -years ago in a motorcycle accident i almost passed out from shock because i was so weak and hungry this incident -i had a 50 mile motorcycle ride to get home to her after work -before i left work i told her i was eating a sandwich before getting on the bike for safety reasons -get to her house and tell her not hungry yet and she flips out at me saying i'm being inconsiderate about us eating together. The places I have handled things incorrectly are like was said earlier - there are times where I try to make everyone happy and end up being late or changing the plan on her, but that doesn't happen very often and I always try to apologize right away if she's reasonable. It's usually her being upset about me wanting to do something that I think is perfectly reasonable - take time away to hang out with my friends, etc. I have to admit, your above example would irk me as a woman. If you have low blood sugar and you know it, then eat smaller meals througout the day. Directly before coming over to her house for dinner that she made you, you ate a sandwich. And then claimed you weren't hungry. Knowing you have this problem, why not schedule dinner for a bit later initially? Or ask that she start dinner later, rather than have her making it and you decide you aren't hungry after all. This would frustrate me to no end. It's not a "little" thing to go out of your way to make dinner for someone and they decide they aren't hungry after all. Seriously. It's rude on your part. To me, having read entire thread, it sounds a bit as if you are somewhat self-involved and she is reacting to your ignorance of how your actions are affecting other people. I don't know your entire relationship history, but from this thread alone, you seem selfish. She is blowing up because she has loads of resentment for you right now. Might want to take a closer look at how some of your actions are disrespectful and then go from there. A week off to cool down is not going to do anything. Also, something to think about, a lot of men consider it "drama" if a woman is irked about something and voices that opinion. I've dated a couple of guys that would freak out if I ever called them on bad behavior. They considered it "DRAMA" to be called on their crappy treatment. I mean, what woman wants to be labeled a drama queen right? It's manipulative ont he guy's part IMO. Nice way to get someone to just meekly follow along so they don't get labeled. Jus sayin. Needless to say, just because she's pissed about something doesn't make her a drama queen, it makes her pissed about something. She may be one, I don't know, I am not her or dating her. But, she may be reacting to too many times being put on the backburner while you do whatever you want in the end anyways.
Author Phateless Posted July 23, 2009 Author Posted July 23, 2009 I have to admit, your above example would irk me as a woman. If you have low blood sugar and you know it, then eat smaller meals througout the day. Directly before coming over to her house for dinner that she made you, you ate a sandwich. And then claimed you weren't hungry. Knowing you have this problem, why not schedule dinner for a bit later initially? Or ask that she start dinner later, rather than have her making it and you decide you aren't hungry after all. This would frustrate me to no end. It's not a "little" thing to go out of your way to make dinner for someone and they decide they aren't hungry after all. Seriously. It's rude on your part. To me, having read entire thread, it sounds a bit as if you are somewhat self-involved and she is reacting to your ignorance of how your actions are affecting other people. I don't know your entire relationship history, but from this thread alone, you seem selfish. She is blowing up because she has loads of resentment for you right now. Might want to take a closer look at how some of your actions are disrespectful and then go from there. A week off to cool down is not going to do anything. Also, something to think about, a lot of men consider it "drama" if a woman is irked about something and voices that opinion. I've dated a couple of guys that would freak out if I ever called them on bad behavior. They considered it "DRAMA" to be called on their crappy treatment. I mean, what woman wants to be labeled a drama queen right? It's manipulative ont he guy's part IMO. Nice way to get someone to just meekly follow along so they don't get labeled. Jus sayin. Needless to say, just because she's pissed about something doesn't make her a drama queen, it makes her pissed about something. She may be one, I don't know, I am not her or dating her. But, she may be reacting to too many times being put on the backburner while you do whatever you want in the end anyways. I understand where she's coming from in that situation, however what bothers me is her inability to put things in PERSPECTIVE. Have you ever ridden a motorcycle? Did you see the part about a 50 MILE ride home? Riding a motorcycle when tired and weak is DANGEROUS. When I crashed last time and almost passed out due to hunger EMT told me that if I passed out I could go into a coma. That's a big deal. That's why I ate the sandwich and she knew this. To me, it's rude to put her feelings in higher priority than my life. It's a lot easier to give due consideration to feelings when you're not being faced with them twice a day.
lora22 Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Have you ever ridden a motorcycle? Did you see the part about a 50 MILE ride home? I'm sure the above poster did see that part, which is why s/he commented that you might try eating small amounts throughout the day, instead of once right before riding home/dinner. I do have a motorcycle myself, and I'd probably be starving again by the time I got home from that Regardless, I actually tend to agree with the above poster. I'd have to go back through this thread more carefully to put my finger on exactly what it is that makes me think your gf isn't entirely in the wrong. From skimming it the way I did, it definitely seems as though your anger and frustration is seriously affecting your relationship and communication with your gf - you even commented on that yourself. So...it seems like you should just call it quits. Nothing is changing, and now you're only making it worse.
aloneanddepressed Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 I don't think it would be right for anyway to get upset or question someone eating a sandwich due to low blood sugar. I guess because I have an issue, I can relate. Yes, you can eat smaller meals throughout the day to help, but doesn't always go as planned. But yeah, there seems to be too many issues going on. I don't think you are going to ever understand her reasons for getting upset and she is never going to understand you being insensitive, not saying you "always" are.
New Again Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Maybe the gf overreacted, but I'm with Lora and Zicke.
tsabs Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 I understand the jealousy thing, and though I have learned to deal with it in much healthier way, It is hard to control when you are feeling it. Is your girlfriend on the pill? I only ask, because for certain women, the hormones in the pill can and will increase the crazy in them. My sweet husband put up with me being a total psycho for the first few months of our relationship, I stopped taking the pill and when I looked back it was as though I was looking at a different person. The other thing you might try, is just telling her that you cant discuss what she is freaking out about when she is acting irrationally, you can say, if this is still a problem for you tomorrow, lets talk about it then. Obviously she has some serious insecurities, and there are ways for her find tools do deal with that, but it cant all be up to you taking the brunt of her problems. If you love her and that is the only problem, it might be worth looking into some solutions for her. It could also be that she really needs to just do some work on herself, and get to a place where she feels good enough not to be constantly suspicious. jealousy sucks from both sides, not that im condoning her behavior, just giving you a different perspective. Good luck!!
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