Unsuccessful Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Over the years, I have had various male friends. Over time, I have developed feelings for some of them and discussed dating. The answer is always the same that they only see me as a friend. In fact, I have never in my whole life had any guy interested in me romantically. I am 41 years old. Whenever, it gets to the point where a guy and I discuss that I am single, they always point out that I am nice, but they see me only as a friend. I don't know how to get out of the friend zone. There are lots of books/advice for guys, but nothing for females in this situation. I am very tall and very thin. I always wear dresses. I have started dressing over-the-top extremely sexy in the last 2 years, but even that has had no effect.
Chicago_Guy Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Over the years, I have had various male friends. Over time, I have developed feelings for some of them and discussed dating. The answer is always the same that they only see me as a friend. In fact, I have never in my whole life had any guy interested in me romantically. I am 41 years old. Whenever, it gets to the point where a guy and I discuss that I am single, they always point out that I am nice, but they see me only as a friend. I don't know how to get out of the friend zone. There are lots of books/advice for guys, but nothing for females in this situation. I am very tall and very thin. I always wear dresses. I have started dressing over-the-top extremely sexy in the last 2 years, but even that has had no effect. I think that tall women can be very hot especially if they are physically fit. However, a lot of guys are probably going to assume that you will think that they are too short for you. You might have to up your flirting game so to let guys you like know that they have a chance with you.
lilymusiq Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 have you ever thought taht maybe its not you and its the guys that you have come into contact with? maybe you just havent found the right kind of guys yet
carhill Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 OP, I've read your other threads..... Here's a current picture of someone who comes to mind: Julie Hagerty (of 'Airplane' fame) Tall and slender. A former model. Her demeanor IME in real life has always been one of generosity and sweetness. Definitely not a 'bad girl'. Can you identify? I think the key is exposing yourself (not literally) to the right type of men which find your combination of appearance and personality to be attractive. It's the same for a man, approaching women who are appropriate and compatible for him. If you or he miss, you miss potentials. I've missed plenty, so I know of what I speak Also, what would be your typical response if a normal guy like myself would approach you in public; not 'hit on' you, but just approach you in a friendly manner? What is your expression and body language. Personally, I found I began to have more success being friendly with women by doing just that; being friendly. More open body language and more eye contact and more expressiveness. In essence, more confidence. Success starts with one action
Jaytb Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Over the years, I have had various male friends. Over time, I have developed feelings for some of them and discussed dating. The answer is always the same that they only see me as a friend. In fact, I have never in my whole life had any guy interested in me romantically. I am 41 years old. Whenever, it gets to the point where a guy and I discuss that I am single, they always point out that I am nice, but they see me only as a friend. I don't know how to get out of the friend zone. There are lots of books/advice for guys, but nothing for females in this situation. I am very tall and very thin. I always wear dresses. I have started dressing over-the-top extremely sexy in the last 2 years, but even that has had no effect. Flirt with guys or maybe ask them out, that might work. Just how tall are you?
paddington bear Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Snap! Here's your sister. I'm attractive, have been (at times) described as beautiful, have no problem meeting new, lovely friends and keeping old lovely friends...but for years and years regarding romance, in between 'nothing' i.e. one or 2 dates that went nowhere, couple of one night stands, there has been the men who I've desired and who have in return friendzoned me and they have hurt me so, so deeply. Unrequited love is just a horrible pit that you dig yourself into. And I've thought the same 'why, why, why does this always happen to me?' Any guy I truly like, never wants me back. I haven't figured out the answer, but I'm working on it. Life is short and for me, it's a big problem that needs to be solved sooner rather than later, otherwise I'll spend another 20, 30 years doing the same thing, getting the same results and then I'll be dead. So, the time is now. The only thing we can change is our own behaviour, actions of beliefs not whether someone else finds us attractive or not. And here are my thoughts so far on this one. Yes, dressing better, to suit your figure and in clothes you feel comfortable and sexy in helps - but you don't want to go too overboard with that, otherwise it just looks desperate. Your attitude helps so much more than what you wear and your attitude should match what you wear. You can be dressed like a ready for sex prostitute, but if you give out totally different vibes it won't matter a damn. People pick up on the vibes not the clothes. What messages do you send out from your words and actions? If I meet someone I really am attracted to, I freak out and shut off afraid to flirt, afraid he'll reject me. From his perspective I'm probably not in the least bit interested, but the ones I'm not interested in, I chat away to, because I'm not so consumed with fear of rejection. By listening and befriending men I turn myself into this mother-figure who is there to support, not someone fun and sexy and exciting to be around. Men already have a mother and don't need another one. Bearing in mind that you have been firstly friends with these guys and have later developed feelings for them, try thinking in terms of this: You now have more than enough male friends. You don't need any more. Any new men you meet, don't act like you've always acted around your friends, otherwise you'll get what you've always got. Don't 'make friends' with them. Make it clear from the offset that you are interested in them as more than friends, i.e. by flirting, by having a life, by being mysterious. As soon as you get any indication that they are not interested in you in that way, either verbally or through their actions, simply cut out of your life. As I said, you have enough friends, don't need another one clogging up your time and mental energy when you're looking for romance. Set boundaries 'this man cannot give me what I want' and let him go from your life and seek the next potential. Actions speak louder than words. Human communication is mostly picked up through actions which leak out. So, someone can say something, but their body reveals the real truth. What is your body saying? Crossed arms - leave me alone, I'm closed to you. Foot pointing towards the door - I dont' really want to be here. Look up body language on the internet and see what simple moves you can make to show with your body that you are interested in someone and also to spot the signs when someone is not interested in you, so you don't waste any more time trying to convince them otherwise. Which is more sexy? A heavy discussion about the fact that you've developed feelings for someone and them having to verbally tell you that they just see you as a friend, or a gradual increase in your flirtation, some comments thrown in here and there, a few touches on the arm? I tried this with one of the guys that friendzoned me. I upped the flirtation, stopped being there for him every time he wanted, didn't answer all calls at the drop of a hat. Told him about any other guys that had flirted with me, had a twinkle in my eye, would see him at a social event and mysteriously disappear without saying goodbye - basically, the opposite of what I had been doing, I stopped putting all my attention on him and started just doing what I wanted to do (and no, I didn't 'get' him in the end - mercifully so as it turned out) - but honestly, through a few alterations in my behaviour, his behaviour changed totally too. He suddenly saw me as an attractive female that other men wanted, I was something he had to now earn instead of being always reliable and available, the phonecalls and text messages increased, he started trying to sell himself to me as opposed to me trying to convince him to like me. I would advise you however, to try this on new men, not on the friends who have already friendzoned you. I think, once you're in that zone, you ain't never going to get out no matter what you do. However, as practice, it might be fun to simply throw in a few comments, change some behaviour and note the results with those male friends (and remember this must NOT be done in a desperate way to earn the love of the object of your affection, you will make them run a mile if you suddenly become all needy and trying to be sexy, when you don't feel like that inside), treat it more like a scientific test. You can use these men to work out what works and what doesn't and the use this information to act differently on dates or random encounters with new men. When you are in situations where you might meet potentials, pretend for that night that you are not you. Pick on some female actress or other personality that you admire and would in an ideal world have their looks, confidence etc, If you don't know who, go watch a ton of old Hollywood movies and see how the femme fatals operated. How did they move, speak to men? Mirror their behaviour until it becomes your behavior and enjoy it, bring out that inner sexy, goddess, fun, not desperate person that has been begging for years to have a chance to get out and strut her stuff. Do an experiment. For one night you are no longer you, you are some other person. Would Scarlett Johannsen befriend some guy and listen to his problems all night - and for months and years later, and during that time have a running commentary in her head telling herself that he's probably not into her anyway and hope and pray that given time he would see the value in her, or would she flirt and be lively and sparkly and see herself as a valubable catch that he has to win? Time is a funny thing, we work under the mis-guided assumption that when someone gets to know us over a long period of time that only then they will see the true us and be drawn to us, when often it is within the first few moments of meeting you that people make their mind up. You want sparks to fly in those first few moments. You want the guy to think 'I don't really know her, but I'm intrigued and want to see her again'. First impressions count. There are plenty of men I'm not attracted to, but like a lot. Bearing that in mind don't use yet another male friend friendzoning you as another tick in the proof box that this always happens. Think of those situations as the past, which it is. Live in the now. Just because this has happened in the past, doesn't mean it's going to happen now or in the future. Assuming that it will, will make it happen. Keep note on your thoughts, keep a close eye on them. What does your brain instantly say when you meet a man, or are spending time with a close male friend, or meet someone you're attracted to? Is your mind telling you lies? 'he'll never want me' 'I'll just get to know him first and when he sees the real me, then he'll want me' 'I'm too tall for him' 'men only ever see me as a friend'. Note all those negative thoughts when they occur. Listen to them, but don't act on them or believe them - who says that they are right? Honestly? Just because your mind thinks it, doesn't mean it's true. Instead, just think 'huh, there I go again putting myself down', or 'would you look at that, I'm assuming that this guy won't like me'. That way you distance yourself from those negative thought patterns that are affecting your body-language, affecting what you say and affecting your assumptions are about how the situation will turn out. Sorry for the long post, but this is a personal topic for me too and I'm really trying to figure it out, and hope this helps both of us somehow!
paddington bear Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 No need to be sorry Great post! thanks...going to beat this, even if it KILLS me in the process!!
Isolde Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Paddington Bear, good post except, friendship CAN lead to relationships. Not every relationship starts out with a spark. Some develop slowly if there is at least some attraction to start with. There simply is not a massive spark vs. massive friendzone dichotomy like what you describe. Fun, light, and bubbly is some guys' cup of tea, but not others'. A second area of disagreement: I think being a good listener is an asset to any worthwhile guy... it's just there also has to be the excitement factor as well.
BobSacamento Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 When you discuss these potential relationships with friends who brings it up?
darknightie Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Do you ACT feminine? Do you feel feminine? Do you like masculine men? If you are wearing dresses and thinking this will attract the right kind of man, when really youre not in to the alpha-male type, there's a problem right there. Second, do you feel confident with your body? Do you know how to flirt? Big, key points there.
Island Girl Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Your attitude helps so much more than what you wear Don't 'make friends' with them. Make it clear from the offset that you are interested in them as more than friends, i.e. by flirting, by having a life, by being mysterious. As soon as you get any indication that they are not interested in you in that way, either verbally or through their actions, simply cut out of your life. Exactly. I upped the flirtation, stopped being there for him every time he wanted, didn't answer all calls at the drop of a hat. Always always always. He suddenly saw me as an attractive female that other men wanted, I was something he had to now earn instead of being always reliable and available, the phonecalls and text messages increased, he started trying to sell himself to me as opposed to me trying to convince him to like me. And this is the reaction you should see from the "get go" with anyone new. If you don't you move on. When you are in situations where you might meet potentials, pretend for that night that you are not you. Pick on some female actress or other personality that you admire and would in an ideal world have their looks, confidence etc, If you don't know who, go watch a ton of old Hollywood movies and see how the femme fatals operated. How did they move, speak to men? Mirror their behaviour until it becomes your behavior and enjoy it, bring out that inner sexy, goddess, fun, not desperate person that has been begging for years to have a chance to get out and strut her stuff. Can't agree more. And I agree with all of the rest too. I wish you the best of luck.
Thornton Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 OP, how would you rate yourself in terms of looks? Without wanting to be rude - I have a very dear friend who struggles to date, and I don't have the heart to tell him it's because he targets girls who won't even look at him twice because they're way out of his league in terms of looks. If you think you're aiming at guys who are within your scope... First things first , stop dressing overly sexy! Believe me, the kind of guys who would like you for being sexy aren't the kind of guys you could have a decent relationship with. You want the kind of guy who likes you as a person, who thinks you're pretty even when your clothes aren't slutty. Dressing slutty just makes you look desperate and scary. Change your style a bit, aim for stylish not slutty - I always thought Trinny Woodall was a good role model for how tall slim girls should dress. Next, get out there and meet more guys! It sounds like you make friends with guys and then develop feelings for them, so you're trying to turn a friendship into a relationship, which is unlikely to work, plus you can't make friends with enough guys to give you a fighting chance of finding one who likes you. You need to get out there and meet guys who will see you as a relationship prospect right from the beginning... meet lots of guys and statistically speaking you're bound to find one who fancies you. Never mind getting to know a guy for months/years and then deciding you like him - get out there, meet guys, date casually, and fall in love with someone you're already dating. Try speed dating, or internet dating, but meet guys who see you as a potential date from the beginning, not as a friend.
collegekid491 Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Hang out with the guys and you will be seen as one of the guys. My gf was the same way when we met and honestly, I wasn't romantically interested in her to start with. She was one of the girls that just did everything with the guys, she was cute (she did wear makeup and all), but she talked and acted like one of the guys when she was relaxed. I personally like a girl who is confident in their sexuality, who knows what she has and how to flaunt it in a.... jessica rabit type of way lol. Eventually I did see her seductive side because her behavior changed. Now don't get me wrong, she still has fun and all doing alot of the same stuff, but she definitely has gotten more feminine in some respects. Just gotta break that barrier by... well, get a reaction from their pants. Dressing overly sexy doesn't work either though, you gotta look... subtely beautiful and graceful, the physiological aspect is what gets you friended more then your looks.
Els Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 When you are in situations where you might meet potentials, pretend for that night that you are not you. Pick on some female actress or other personality that you admire and would in an ideal world have their looks, confidence etc, If you don't know who, go watch a ton of old Hollywood movies and see how the femme fatals operated. How did they move, speak to men? Mirror their behaviour until it becomes your behavior and enjoy it, bring out that inner sexy, goddess, fun, not desperate person that has been begging for years to have a chance to get out and strut her stuff. While I agree with you for the most part and think it's a wonderfully thought out post, I really must beg to differ on this. What happens if you GET the guy... by not being yourself, but by being a Hollywood femme fatale? What then? Would you continue this 'mirror image' all your life? Would you be comfortable with that? Or would the old you, the real you, keep trying to find a way out, until you can't keep up with that image that you built of yourself anymore?
Island Girl Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 What happens if you GET the guy... by not being yourself, but by being a Hollywood femme fatale? What then? Would you continue this 'mirror image' all your life? Would you be comfortable with that? Or would the old you, the real you, keep trying to find a way out, until you can't keep up with that image that you built of yourself anymore? I think what should happen -- what hopefully would happen is that some of these characteristics would become part of that person. Things like confidence, the ability to feel sexy and have it come through, and the nix on the negative self talk should be embraced and lived in until they just become. There is no reason why she shouldn't be confident or feel sexy but I am sure there is a running tape in her head that keeps her self esteem low and from being able to just be herself with new guys. That's probably why she goes the route of being friends so they'll get to know her. She may feel that it would take a guy getting to know her to be attracted which isn't true.
Author Unsuccessful Posted July 23, 2009 Author Posted July 23, 2009 Thanks for all of the questions and feedback. I am 5'8" which means that a lot of guys are still taller than me. I think the problem is possibly my personality. I am very shy and awkward. I have been told in the past that I seem unfriendly. I used to be more confident, but years of bad luck with dating has caused my confidence to decline. That could be affecting my body language. I had done speed dating and online dating for quite a few years, but I always get feedback from my dates that I am attractive but there is no chemistry. The dates say that they can only see me as a friend. I generally go out with any guy at all who responds to my profile, so I don't think I am too picky. I really don't screen anyone out at all. I definitely haven't been deliberately trying to date my male friends. I happened to develop feelings for a few, but that hasn't worked any better than speed dating and online dating. In the situations with my guy friends, they have pushed me into the friend zone when I started flirting. I haven't started flirting suddenly with long-standing friends. That would be too weird. It was with newer friends. After being rejected and friend-zoned, I am even more self-conscious about flirting with anyone now. I suppose I could try being more unavailable/mysterious. Since I am so shy already, it seems like this backfires and I just fall off the guy's radar screen or they conclude that I am unfriendly/uninterested. Not sure how to balance being unavailable/mysterious versus being perceived as unfriendly/uninterested.
Island Girl Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Not sure how to balance being unavailable/mysterious versus being perceived as unfriendly/uninterested. Unavailable/mysterious still makes eye contact and is still flirty but not overly friendly. Her actions say, "I'm confident and happy - you want to know about me and my life because it's GREAT". Unfriendly/uninterested doesn't make eye contact, keeps her head down, and shuts off any sign of being approachable. Hopefully that helps a bit?
Els Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 I think what should happen -- what hopefully would happen is that some of these characteristics would become part of that person. Things like confidence, the ability to feel sexy and have it come through, and the nix on the negative self talk should be embraced and lived in until they just become. There is no reason why she shouldn't be confident or feel sexy but I am sure there is a running tape in her head that keeps her self esteem low and from being able to just be herself with new guys. That's probably why she goes the route of being friends so they'll get to know her. She may feel that it would take a guy getting to know her to be attracted which isn't true. It would be great if she only gained confidence in herself from doing it -- hopefully that is what will happen. 'Mirroring' celebrities though can sometimes turn into just trying to be the stereotypical type of woman that the majority of men find sexy. They act not how they would prefer to act, but how they think would be the best way to get men. This may not in itself be bad. For example, a girl might think that men don't like her because she doesn't spend hours at a salon and talks in too straightforward and plain a manner. So she goes right ahead and follows the movie stars -- spends time and money that she cannot afford to get the hairstyle that is 'in fashion', practices fluttering her eyelids and talking like a bimbo to get the male attention. Many young women try to do this nowadays and it ends up looking really sad. An experience of mine: I once thought that the reason I didn't have any guys interested in me was because I wasn't social and feminine enough. So I dressed up uncomfortably feminine, steeled myself and became as social as I could, even when I really would rather skip half of those social events. And guess what... I did have guys interested in me. This was certainly a first for me! But then I sat down and thought... gosh, I'm not interested in THEM. These typical teenage guys, I have NOTHING in common with them, I'm totally incompatible with them. Then why did they like me? I then realized the answer. They liked the image of me that I tried so hard to project and managed to successfully pull off. But they didn't like ME. Not only was I uninterested in them, but I would never have managed to keep doing those things that I felt uncomfortable doing, so we would never have made it anyway. I declined them and just did what I was happy doing. A few months later I met my first bf. My current bf was once going through my wardrobe just for fun. He pulled out some of the stuff I used to wear then, boggled at me and said, "This totally isn't YOU. Did you even ever wear it?" What I'm trying to say, I guess, is that upping one's confidence is good. But mirroring someone's BEHAVIOUR, that is incongruous with hers, may not really be such a good thing.
Island Girl Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 I hear you Elswyth. I think it is about "borrowing" those things you feel comfortable with after trying them on a bit. Finding what suits you. A little here and a little there -- with heaps and heaps of confidence building and silencing of the negative talk. A person still has to be true to themselves. Just an enhanced version that doesn't carry around the baggage. For instance - more of the quirky type? Then look at the women that play the hot librarians or actresses like Meg Ryan (just a for instance) -- don't try to be Sophia Loren or Catherine Zeta Jones.
Els Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 A person still has to be true to themselves. Just an enhanced version that doesn't carry around the baggage. Totally agree with this. I guess it boils down to her looking deep inside herself and separating the things that she needs to improve, from the things that really are part of her personality and make her unique. And then, working on the former and being proud of the latter, no matter how many or few men pursue her.
Island Girl Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Totally agree with this. I guess it boils down to her looking deep inside herself and separating the things that she needs to improve, from the things that really are part of her personality and make her unique. And then, working on the former and being proud of the latter, no matter how many or few men pursue her. I have always found that just being the me I am proud of being and focusing on my strengths has served me well. And not worrying about men period leads to droves of them pursuing and showing up in the weirdest places. I met one of my exes in the line at the DMV -- he was behind me and there was quite enough time to have engaging conversation!
utterer of lies Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 I am very tall and very thin. I always wear dresses. I have started dressing over-the-top extremely sexy in the last 2 years, but even that has had no effect. You seem desperate - this is a huge turn-off. Over the top-sexy clothing and akward-shy behavior says ... RUN!
Recommended Posts