BackUpOrGetStung Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 They weren't together, she was available. I think it's ok to f*uck anyone you want regardless of their marital status, I think your marital status is all that's really to consider and this guy is good in that department. I don't see what the big deal is, they are in the process of getting a divorce, she is free. I don't understand why your friend's ex's are forbidden; I understand why you might not do it as a courtesy, but I really don't think it's as terrible as everyone makes it seem.
Author Balthazar Posted July 23, 2009 Author Posted July 23, 2009 -Dex I don't think anything I will tell you will make you change your mind...but the truth is that for 10 years we were just friends. Believe me, there were many chances to "do it" if we wanted to. Keep in mind that this is an anonymous forum and I have come clean on an issue. There is no reason for me to lie and I don't want to. So, I will say it once more I DIDN"T WANT TO BONE HER! We clear on that? -Jilly A "hello" before the daggers in the ribs would have been nice.... Don't really see how your post actually helps things in any way though... By the way, all you comments are really negative Jilly and in bad form... Why so bitter?Get jilted for a younger gal? -TBF Deliberate or not, you're right....that's pretty funny. And the truth about men comes out once again! -Carhill She didn't choose Peter. I was in a relationship at the time. In fact, after the exhibition we all went for drinks...so no drama there. - Samari Your post has helped me a great deal. i think you have the makings of a great LS poster! Don't pay much attention to some of the other posters who answered.... We all have a posting history on LS and some people feel the need to throw in a few jabs instead of give advice. -BackUp... As I said to Samari, some people on LS can be very judgmental, but I did ask for opinions, didn't I? I think you look at the matter in a practical, realistic way; In any case, I'd like to thank those who offered advice or comic relief(which is needed....)
Dexter Morgan Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 They weren't together, she was available. I think it's ok to f*uck anyone you want regardless of their marital status well then if you think its ok, then you'll have no problem telling the spouse of a person you are f#####g to their face then. afterall, if its perfectly ok, then telling them shouldn't be a problem. I think your marital status is all that's really to consider ???? thought you just said it was ok? do I need to ask you to make up your mind? and this guy is good in that department. I don't see what the big deal is, they are in the process of getting a divorce, she is free. so what? you just got done saying its ok to f##k someone who is married. So what does it matter to you if she is free or not?
Dexter Morgan Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 -Dex I don't think anything I will tell you will make you change your mind...but the truth is that for 10 years we were just friends. Believe me, there were many chances to "do it" if we wanted to. Keep in mind that this is an anonymous forum and I have come clean on an issue. There is no reason for me to lie and I don't want to. So, I will say it once more I DIDN"T WANT TO BONE HER! We clear on that? sure thing. Its ok....I believe ya buddy
carhill Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 -Carhill She didn't choose Peter. I was in a relationship at the time. In fact, after the exhibition we all went for drinks...so no drama there. She chose him (and I assume he chose her) since they did get married. I didn't mean she chose him over you, rather chose him over all other potentials, including you, irrespective of relationship status. TBH, I think the best way to define this would be, if you had been married and things didn't work out with your W and you were getting a divorce, would it be acceptable to you for a friend in your 'inner circle', though not a best friend, to date your stbx? Then, question yourself as to why (either way). Reflection is often a valuable tool. Also, regardless of whatever dynamic existed over the years, you (and she) chose not to engage in any behaviors that undermined her M (I'm assuming this from your comments), so your conscience should be clear on that part. If you and Mary are done, IMO, be done and leave things as they are. Good luck!
Author Balthazar Posted July 24, 2009 Author Posted July 24, 2009 She chose him (and I assume he chose her) since they did get married. I didn't mean she chose him over you, rather chose him over all other potentials, including you, irrespective of relationship status. TBH, I think the best way to define this would be, if you had been married and things didn't work out with your W and you were getting a divorce, would it be acceptable to you for a friend in your 'inner circle', though not a best friend, to date your stbx? Then, question yourself as to why (either way). Reflection is often a valuable tool. Also, regardless of whatever dynamic existed over the years, you (and she) chose not to engage in any behaviors that undermined her M (I'm assuming this from your comments), so your conscience should be clear on that part. If you and Mary are done, IMO, be done and leave things as they are. Good luck! Your first point does not register Carhill. I was not a "potential" BF for Mary. And you cannot choose someone over someone else"irrespective of relationship status"... I was off the market and in a relationship. As I thought was clear, I was with my GF when we first met Peter and Mary at the exhibition. There could have been no "choice" for Mary between Peter and myself. She didn't have such an option back then. It was either Peter or some other guy, but not me. Concerning your second point, I think I am too close to the situation for an objective answer. But I can tell you how I have felt with past GF's. A few years back, I broke up with a GF after about a 16-18 month relationship. I instigated the break-up and I was actually relieved when she found someone else because I felt she had now gotten on with her life. Would it have bothered me if she had hooked up with a good friend? Not really, although I could imagine it being awkward for the 3 of us to hang out together. Again, not exactly the same situation but the closest approximation and introspection I can give you. What is interesting is the Peter has been in a similar situation. He broke up with his ex-GF, Sandy and she then married a good friend of his. And they are all still on friendly terms. However, Sandy had not been in a 5-year relationship with him, so again, I am not sure if the situation is similar enough to the current one. Finally, engaging in sex with Mary over the last 10 years has been a non-issue. As I stated before, she was a friend.. I hardly even viewed her as a woman. It is just how I felt.... Maybe after her split, Mary ramped up her sexuality to attract men but while she was married...nope, never crossed my mind.
BackUpOrGetStung Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Dexter, If you take a second and sort through what I said it is not difficult to understand. First, I would have no problem telling someone that I've slept with their wife after they've deemed their marriage irreconcilable. I say your own marital status is what you need to consider not the other person's..that's my opinion, I'm entitled to it. I have not and will not cheat on a significant other, but I have been the "other guy" a couple times and you probably wouldn't believe that it stemmed from an emotional attachment. It honestly doesn't matter to me if she is free or not, I brought this point up for the people like you. She's not with the husband anymore so what does it matter who she sleeps with? You seem to look at things in simple black and white terms with no regard for complex shades of gray. That being said I don't think Balthazar's emotions at the time were very complex, he was horny. He made a rash decision and is asking for help on how to best deal with it. Don't be so quick to judge, you may make a mistake one day.
carhill Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 I'm sure others will work this better than I, but, since Mary is still legally married, the actions you described in your OP underscore what I was asserting, in that you and Mary chose each other for sex irrespective of your (precisely, her legal) relationship status. Back when you were in a relationship and had just met her, the dynamic could have turned out completely different. It didn't, which still reflects choice. The remaining possibility is that you are wired differently, and only began to see her as attractive over time and with intimacy (platonic intimacy) and that such attraction finally manifested itself of late. From the tone of your post, I'm starting to think that's the case, and, if so, and if different from your usual attraction style, bears further introspection, IMO. There may be other factors at work here, having nothing to do with Mary herself. My question would be: Do you normally find yourself attracted to women without regard to/irrespective of their behaviors and/or actions, or is it dependent on, as you shared about Mary, 'ramping up' their sexuality? Can a woman be completely neutral towards you and you still think she's hot and want to do her? Lastly, you say you have feelings for Mary but are pretty sure you don't want a relationship with her. Are you OK with continuing to have sex with her? If she was just a lady you knew and not Peter's stbx, would it make any difference? Why? I've walked much of this path, hence my questions. I really don't have an agenda, other than to perhaps clarify things, which I'm assuming was the topic of the thread. Hope it's helping
Teslacoil Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Good posts Samari.... I reached the same decision myself. While I understand what happened between Mary and myself was a gray area, these things happen; it is part and parcel of living.... To be honest, I felt bad for Mary after her split from Peter and a lot of the couple's friends had stopped seeing her....something she complained to me about. That is not to say that I was trying to get back at Peter...it is just that I felt that after a 10-year relationship, she had gotten the short end of the stick... My feelings are unchanged for Mary. I still wan to be friends and hang out and do all the things we previously did. I think we will get through it Ok. I think a lot of people on this board are irrationally condemning you on this. From what I gather, although you've been friends with Peter and Mary for a long time, they don't sound like your closest friends in the world. You wouldn't be the first circle of friends where multiple people have slept with each other or even gotten married. They were separated for a year. They were living single, separate lives. They weren't technically divorced, but that doesn't mean she wasn't available. The only iffy thing that you got yourself into really is sleeping with a friend who you may or may not end up starting a relationship with. Your friend Peter is going to need to get used to Mary sleeping with and/or dating other people, possibly other people that he knows. Such stuff happens. He might be pissed off about it, but he's going to need to learn to live with it. I'd say your largest concern is ruining your friendship with Mary since she might want a relationship, and you don't.
Author Balthazar Posted July 24, 2009 Author Posted July 24, 2009 -Carhill I always found Mary attractive, but while we were "platonic" friends I never felt the desire to be sexual with her. It may have been her martial status and my proximity to the couple. After her split, I still felt no attraction, even though I recognized her as being an ,objectively, attractive woman. Being that it is summer(and it gets quite hot here) she started to dress more lightly and her "single" status probably also led her to dress more provocatively than is the norm for her. Then one evening, we just got horny...as another poster said. Simple as that... Would I pursue a relationship with her is she weren't Peter's ex? I dunno....but I do know how I feel now, and it is that we should not continue down a more intimate route. We met and talked over lunch today, and what I felt is that she was ready for a full-fledged relationship. In that regard, I may have gotten off lightly.... To have pursued matters further would have led to heartbreak and an irreconcilable rift in the friendship. Interesting fact Peter called Mary while we were out having lunch. He asked where she was and what she,however,she didn't mention me at all. This factor only served to strengthen my resolve to end things between us , as I did. I asked her if her contact with Peter is frequent and she said it is, but she argued that the romance and marriage is dead. Their divorce is final in a few weeks. Yet, I still get the feeling there is more to this than she is admitting. Why be on such friendly terms with a man who abandoned you after a 5-year marriage? I told her we cannot see each other romantically but if she wishes, we are still friends. She didn't like it and felt I was nipping the flower at the bud yet I feel I did what was right for all concerned. Again, I feel that if I let this situation progress even a bit further, things would have gotten quite difficult, especially since we have different goals in life. I enjoy my bachelor life while I believe she is looking for someone to fill Peter's place. -Teslacoil Yeah, I feel certain people just wanted to criticize me on their ethical high horse. You are right about people in a circle getting into all sorts of relationships. As I mentioned before, Peter's ex GF married his best friend! Pete was fine with that! You are also right about salvaging the relationship. Even though I was quite clear about things(and Mary knows that I shun relationships), she clearly wanted to pursue matters further. I don't know how she will feel about us going back to "just friends" Still, thanks for the advice
stepka Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 Well if we changed a few minor details here, I could be Mary. I can tell you why I slept with him too--he's attractive and experienced, he cares about me somewhat, so is someone safe emotionally for me to sleep with. Otherwise, I'd have to take my excessive horniness to a complete stranger which doesn't sound appealing right now. There is the "sticking it to the ex" factor, which isn't insignificant. Then a few nights after the fact, I had the lover and the ex over for dinner, and just bordered on flirting with the lover, while the ex looked on and wondered what the he!! was going on. It was delicious. Why I wish I hadn't: The lover doesn't want even a FWB relationship after all--maybe a booty call every now and then. He's way too active sexually with other women, which makes me very nervous. And even though he seemed safe emotionally, in fact it felt just as empty as if I'd picked up someone at a bar. And then of course I have to wonder about someone who would sleep with a friend's ex (and her a friend too) and then promptly dump her into booty call status. He didn't show a very nice character, and I guess I didn't either, so live and learn and you guys can all learn from my mistakes too.
stillafool Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 I haven't read your entire thread but I don't think it is right to date a friend's "ex" no matter what (unless they die). It is too painful for the friend and there are too many people in this world to date rather than hurt a friend.
Dexter Morgan Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 Dexter, If you take a second and sort through what I said it is not difficult to understand. not the way you write First, I would have no problem telling someone that I've slept with their wife after they've deemed their marriage irreconcilable. a good friend? and before they got divorced? and they may not be together, but the divorce isn't final. If someone wants to go off and screw married people even if a divorce is in the works....hey, whatever. But as the guy's friend, he could have at least had the respect for his friend to WAIT until the divorce was final. I have not and will not cheat on a significant other, but I have been the "other guy" a couple times and you probably wouldn't believe that it stemmed from an emotional attachment. once maybe....but more than once with someone elses wife....could be seen as you get off on bedding other men's wives, or that maybe you do it because they don't want anything else from you and don't want to get a divorce, so they aren't going to pressure you for anything. It honestly doesn't matter to me if she is free or not So I read you correctly. in your mind it is ok to "f#ck" someone elses spouse....free or not. I brought this point up for the people like you. She's not with the husband anymore so what does it matter who she sleeps with? who SHE sleeps with shouldn't matter. But as this guy's so-called friend, and out of respect for his friend, he should have waited until the divorce was final. His wife can go off and f#ck whoever she wants. her stbXH didn't want her. But as this guy's friend, its about respect as a friend, and would have made me wonder about his friendship all along. OP sees this too, otherwise he wouldn't be having such a hard time with what he did. That being said I don't think Balthazar's emotions at the time were very complex, he was horny. He made a rash decision and is asking for help on how to best deal with it. and he is getting answers on both sides of the spectrum. Don't be so quick to judge, you may make a mistake one day. what he did wasn't a mistake. he did it because he wanted to do it. and no, I won't end up sleeping with a friends stbXW before the divorce is final. I know you'll find this hard to believe, but some men don't think with their d!cks.
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