Balthazar Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 Ok, so I have a bit of an ethical dilemma here. The story begins with Peter and Mary who have been friends of mine since 1998. In fact, Mary is one of the few female "friends" I have had over the years. We all met at an exhibition in 1998 and fate led to Peter and Mary getting married. After 5 years together, they married in 2003. Unfortunately, the couple split up in May 2008(last year). During these 10 years, we have often gone out, been on holidays together and had fun times. Although they are not my best friends, they are definitely in the "inner circle". Anyway, last year Peter decides that he doesn't want to be married. He had started seeing a shrink and was depressed all the time. After a while, he just left their house and they decided to split thereafter. I still see both of them from time to time, and they have maintained a friendly relationship, and sometimes go out together. However, Mary has made it clear that they are no longer romantically involved and she has no such feelings towards Peter. Peter doesn't talk about the split and Mary much;in fact, it is as if his marriage to Mary never even happened... Anyway, a week ago Mary and I went for drinks. We both had 2 or 3 and we ended up having a late nightcap on her veranda. One thing led to another and we ended up kissing. To be honest, I started massaging her shoulders and it sort of just happened.... Later that night we went to her bedroom but both felt a bit awkward with the situation. Of course that didn't stop us from having sex a few days later, which was really good for both of us. Which brings us to the present. I have feelings for Mary, but I am pretty sure I don't want a relationship with her. I don't know how she feels, but I picked up 2-3 times where she alluded to a future together, so I have to assume she may be interested in something more concrete than just some sex. It is not that I don't like her or find her attractive.... it is just that I am now considering the repercussions on all of us. In fact, when I am with Mary, it is as if I am with an ex-girlfriend and we have gotten back together. The problem is that we know each other too well and the element of "newness" is just not there. And I think I need it to be present... Anyway, I was with Peter last night and a group of friends, and it felt unusual talking to him and hanging out after having made love to his ex-wife. Of course, he knows nothing yet..... And even though he instigated their split and subsequent divorce, I don't know how he would take it.... I don't plan to proceed with Mary, but I hope our friendship will continue; I am pretty sure we can work through this.... What are your thoughts on this matter? Was I on ethically shaky ground when making love to her? Thanks, PS - Their divorce will be finalized in a few weeks...
Dexter Morgan Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 geez, you didn't even have the decency to wait for the body to get cold. granted, they are getting a divorce...but you look like a vulture that wanted to f##k a friend's wife the entire time they were married, and swooped in and can't even wait til its final....geez. its one thing for this to happen many months, years after the divorce is over...but this will make it look to your friend like you wanted to f##k her all along.....and you did...didntcha? granted he didn't want to be married any longer, but geez. I guess he really can't complain if he didn't want the marriage...but just makes guys think how badly their friends want to bone their gfs/wives.
butcher's hook Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 What do you think? This says to me you give a rat's ass about the friendship, of all the women you could sleep with it had to be someone this close to home? And you don't even want a relationship? Who cares now, it's done. Hope your friend never finds out. I just could not go anywhere near any ex of my friends, it's a line that you don't cross but that's just me and that's what I think.
Stockalone Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Was I on ethically shaky ground when making love to her? I'd say that is an understatement. If I were Peter, this could get really ugly if I were to find out. At the very least, I'd never speak to you again. You probably shouldn't go fishing with Peter, or else you could have an unfortunate accident and disappear in the Ionian Sea... Even going after an ex is a terrible idea. And she is technically still his wife. With friends like this, who needs enemies? There is a good chance this whole thing will blow up in your face.
Trialbyfire Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Balt, if you have to question the ethics of this, you have to ask yourself why this HAD to happen. It wasn't just the spirit of the moment or go with the flow. So why? Only you know.
Cherry Blossom 35 Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 There is way too much history here for this to ever have been a good idea. Even if there was no Peter, to sleep with a good friend who thinks there may be a possibility for a RL is a bad idea. Throw in Peter, and you have a big mess. Yes, I think you made a mistake. At this point it is probably best to make sure Mary knows where you stand so she is not being led on. I wouldn't say anything to Peter, and hopefully he won't find out. My personal feeling about dating ex's is that time needs to pass and the dust needs to settle. Also, before doing it, you should perhaps talk it over with the male friend first. Wow, this just seems like a lot of possible drama, and you're not even interested in a relationship. Well, mistakes happen. Hopefully this one will pass without too much angst.
Ariadne Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Was I on ethically shaky ground when making love to her? Nah, you are both free and wanted to be together.
Author Balthazar Posted July 22, 2009 Author Posted July 22, 2009 Well, I did ask for your opinions on this matter, and I did get them.... First off, I didn't want to "bone" Mary while she was married to Peter. In fact, I didn't really even see her as being "female", she was just a very good friend. It may sound weird, I know, but men who have had really good female friends can attest to this. Concerning what TBF said, it actually was a "go with the flow" sort of thing. Nothing was planned or organized. In fact, I didn't have a condom with me, otherwise it may well have happened on the first night. There was attraction between us and it did. I can't take it back now. One poster commented that I didn't even let the body cool....yet, Peter and May split over a year ago.... Surely that is not "jumping right in..." In fact, I have been out with Mary several times during the last 6 months and Peter knew this.... As for not wanting a relationship....well, I don't. What is the problem with that? I am not sure Mary wants one either. What I do know is that she is alone while Peter has already gone on with his life. Again, I don't feel completely Ok with this....but I must tell you it is a NON-ISSUE with Mary. When we were talking about what happened, May made it clear she was a free woman, a woman who had been left by her husband. Her concern was not whether we were being ethical, it was whether we could remain friends afterwards.... Anyway, what I am contemplating now is telling Peter what happened. Yet, I feel that I may be doing more harm than good. I mean, if there is even a remote chance of them getting back together, wouldn't I be driving a last nail into the coffin?
Trialbyfire Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 But it wasn't a go with the flow, in that there should have been reasons to stop it, such as your friendship with her STXH and also, her friendship. Does friendship not mean a lot to you?
You'reasian Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 When we were talking about what happened, May made it clear she was a free woman, a woman who had been left by her husband. Her concern was not whether we were being ethical, it was whether we could remain friends afterwards.... Anyway, what I am contemplating now is telling Peter what happened. Yet, I feel that I may be doing more harm than good. I mean, if there is even a remote chance of them getting back together, wouldn't I be driving a last nail into the coffin? You're playing in the grey area - should or shouldn't you get involved with a separated woman? Considering the friendships involved, the best thing to do would have been to wait for the divorce to be finalized, since assumingly the two of you would still be there for each other. If you'd just met Mary and the details were sketchy from her part at the moment, I could see the temptation to jump in and get it on with her.
Ariadne Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Anyway, what I am contemplating now is telling Peter what happened. Yet, I feel that I may be doing more harm than good. I would tell him. If he is your friend, that would be too huge a secret to have.
Author Balthazar Posted July 23, 2009 Author Posted July 23, 2009 But it wasn't a go with the flow, in that there should have been reasons to stop it, such as your friendship with her STXH and also, her friendship. Does friendship not mean a lot to you? Friendship is important, but I don't view making love as something mutually exclusive from friendship. The actual lovemaking was enjoyable and yet at the same time there definitely was that awkwardness I referred to. I think both of these feelings stemmed from our friendship. Anyway, I'm off for a few days holiday. Maybe the fresh air will clear my minds as to how to proceed. I talked with Mary on the phone last night and we agreed that we should cool things down until we are both clearer about what direction our friendship is going in...
Samari Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 geez, you didn't even have the decency to wait for the body to get cold. granted, they are getting a divorce...but you look like a vulture that wanted to f##k a friend's wife the entire time they were married, and swooped in and can't even wait til its final....geez. its one thing for this to happen many months, years after the divorce is over...but this will make it look to your friend like you wanted to f##k her all along.....and you did...didntcha? granted he didn't want to be married any longer, but geez. I guess he really can't complain if he didn't want the marriage...but just makes guys think how badly their friends want to bone their gfs/wives. Calm down. We all make mistakes. It's not the end of the world. And the couple hadn't been seeing each other for quite some time. And from this person's testimony, it's not like he had been waiting to jump her bones for the last twelve years.
Samari Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 You're playing in the grey area - should or shouldn't you get involved with a separated woman? Considering the friendships involved, the best thing to do would have been to wait for the divorce to be finalized, since assumingly the two of you would still be there for each other. If you'd just met Mary and the details were sketchy from her part at the moment, I could see the temptation to jump in and get it on with her. A finalized divorce is nothing but a bunch of papers being official. Nothing more. Life isn't as black and white as that. The couple hadn't been seeing each other for over a year. It was clearly over and the guy was ready to move on with his life. He even knew that his former spouse and the OP hung out together. He'd have to be pretty dumb to not think that there was a chance of something potentially happening in the future. It almost sounds worse if he had gotten with her and did the dirty right after the divorce was finalized.
Samari Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 As for the OP, I'm not trying to condone what you did as something notable, but I personally don't think it's the end of the world like a lot of people here do. Now I don't know you personally obviously, I can only go by what you've told me. Assuming everything is as accurate as you displayed, you obviously have a few choices. I mean you already talked to that girl Mary correct? And you decided to take things slow and let things cool while you both decide when you friendship goes. I think that was a good decision. As for Peter, your friend, you could tell him what you did. He could either take it lightly, or he may never speak to you again. But that is your choice, and only you can make that decision. If I was in your place, I think I may make that decision to tell him. But that's just me. I personally don't think I could live with that kind of blood on my hands, figuratively speaking. It may destroy a friendship, but that would be the price that I would have to pay. I personally would just think it would be the right thing to do. Personally. And if I was in Peter's place, I would probably want to know. Whether if I was with Mary or not anymore. The thought of a friend holding something back like that for who knows how long is kind of unsettling. I may not like the truth when I'm told it, but after a while I would realize that at least my friend tried to redeem himself.
Author Balthazar Posted July 23, 2009 Author Posted July 23, 2009 Good posts Samari.... I reached the same decision myself. While I understand what happened between Mary and myself was a gray area, these things happen; it is part and parcel of living.... To be honest, I felt bad for Mary after her split from Peter and a lot of the couple's friends had stopped seeing her....something she complained to me about. That is not to say that I was trying to get back at Peter...it is just that I felt that after a 10-year relationship, she had gotten the short end of the stick... My feelings are unchanged for Mary. I still wan to be friends and hang out and do all the things we previously did. I think we will get through it Ok.
Dexter Morgan Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 First off, I didn't want to "bone" Mary while she was married to Peter. uh huh.... Again, I don't feel completely Ok with this why not? obviously you feel as though you have done your friend wrong. again, they are not with each other anymore, and by his doing. so the only reason Peter would be upset, that I can think of, is that he figured you wanted her all along and were just waiting it out. but I must tell you it is a NON-ISSUE with Mary. of course....Peter didn't want her. This could have been a way to thumb her nose at him. When we were talking about what happened, May made it clear she was a free woman, a woman who had been left by her husband. Her concern was not whether we were being ethical, it was whether we could remain friends afterwards.... thats a big "no". Anyway, what I am contemplating now is telling Peter what happened. Yet, I feel that I may be doing more harm than good. I mean, if there is even a remote chance of them getting back together, wouldn't I be driving a last nail into the coffin? actually if there ever might be a chance they would get back together...this is all the MORE reason to tell him. he'd need to know his "friend" slept with her. If I had a split with someone, and then got back with them, only to find out not long after the split my "friend" had slid his vienna sausage into her...there'd be problems. That would be information I'd rather have BEFORE contemplating getting back with her rather than after.
Dexter Morgan Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Calm down. We all make mistakes. It's not the end of the world. And the couple hadn't been seeing each other for quite some time. And from this person's testimony, it's not like he had been waiting to jump her bones for the last twelve years. not quite sold on that one...but I did say that is how it will LOOK. and in case you didn't notice, balth is worried about this and obviously HE thinks something is wrong.
carhill Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 In fact, Mary is one of the few female "friends" I have had over the years. Since you all met at the same time, and she was attracted to and chose Peter and she and you remained as platonic friends, what about her changed after they split? I'll bet it changed even prior to them splitting. Something that sent out different signals to you than you had been getting all those years. If this isn't merely a situational ego feed for her, then there's something changing within her psychology and you're responding to it. As to Peter, IMO be straight up. If he's truly disconnected from her and feels no territoriality, it won't matter to him. If he isn't, then there's a lot more issues than one night of sex going on. Either way (tell or not), you and Mary made a choice. That choice has consequences. Hope it works out
Jilly Bean Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 I'm just happy you've taken up with someone over the age of 20, and who doesn't work with you. Besides that, how would YOU feel about finding out that a close friend banged your ex-wife before the divorce was final? I wonder if Mary used you to get back at her ex-husband.
Samari Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 not quite sold on that one...but I did say that is how it will LOOK. and in case you didn't notice, balth is worried about this and obviously HE thinks something is wrong. I never said the poster didn't feel the way. But in the grand scheme of things, it's not the end of the world. We all make mistakes. Even ones like this.
Samari Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 I'm just happy you've taken up with someone over the age of 20, and who doesn't work with you. Age doesn't always denote intelligence. If that is what you're getting at. And no one here works with this person. We're all strangers giving general advice.
Jilly Bean Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Age doesn't always denote intelligence. If that is what you're getting at. And no one here works with this person. We're all strangers giving general advice. You're clearly very uninformed on the posters dating history. Bal - something has just occured to me. Some of the past women you have written about - the young girls, the one from work, etc., and now this one; it *seems* like there is a pattern of consistently picking women that are inappropriate, for a variety of reasons. Do you think there is any truth to that?
Samari Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 You're clearly very uninformed on the posters dating history. Oh okay. I misunderstood.
Trialbyfire Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Maybe the fresh air will clear my minds as to how to proceed.I don't know if this was a freudian slip or deliberate but it's apt!
Recommended Posts