White Flower Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 To Trimmer Thank you. My husband is in no way responsible. He is not the one who had the affair, he is not the one who got his OW pregnant & he is not the one who lied to everyone. That is all on Tom. To White Flower & Greeneyedlady Sorry, but Tom wasn't forced to do anything. No one forced him to cheat on his wife, no one forced him to lie to everyone around him & no one forced him to leave. Lisa offered to try and work it out if he ended the affair, Tom CHOOSE not to do that and was booted for it. Besides, the OW was pregnant already. D would of happened. Even if by some miracle Tom had kept the pregnacy & child support secret, Lisa would of know because she found one of the love letters the day after he told her. Let's not forget the hang up phone calls she had mentioned to me the week before & I had suggested she put an annoy. call block on to stop them. And if none of that was enough for Lisa to have figured it out soon enough, might I also add Tom worked with his OW, he was her supervisor. Everyone at work already knew what was going on & complaints had already been filed by a co-workers with corporate. Basically put, Tom's affair was going to come out soon, no way around it. He was fired the week after he told Lisa, guess why? For having an inappropriate sexual relationship with a subordinate, a direct violation of company policy. (maybe that is why you shouldn't have sex with your OW in the storage room when there is a camera only ten feet away) I kind of think that alone would of tipped Lisa off. To In_Repair & Cantgiveup -My husband did NOT tell me anything. I just knew. (as someone said, I read his body language because I know him well) And he did offer his friend advice that night, but advice based on the lie that the affair hadn't actually happened yet. He was a perfect friend that night, they talked for about 3 hours. The problem is that over the next 3 days, the reality of the situation tore my husband apart. Lisa was just as much a friend as Tom & now my husband was being forced to lie to her. He had already lied to her once on the phone & we were faced with the prospect of an entire evening with both Lisa & Tom where we would both be forced to lie yet again. I'm sorry, but no way in hell should my husband have to give up his own convictions & suffer because someone decided to put this crap on his shoulders. While honesty is not a top priority for some, in my family, it very important. Tom knew that & he lied to my husband anyway. Tom also knew we would not lie to Lisa so why even tell us? There are only two possible reasons that I can think of, either Tom was hoping we would do his dirty work for him (Tell Lisa ourselves) or he was forcing us to pick sides. As for the trust issue, it is my husband not trusting his own judgement/instinct, not his friends lacking trust in him. If anything, we are more trusted by others than ever. It''s other people they lack trust in, not my husband, not me. So no, sorry, but neither myself or my husband will take any blame in this. It all falls on Tom. He made the bad choices. All we did was do EXACTLY what Tom knew we would do, we were honest. I will give you that--if Tom really knew you would tell due to your well-known desire to 'keep it real' then it could very well mean that Tom hoped you would do his dirty work. Another good point which I did not see in your OP is that it was all going to come out anyway. Knowing this, I might have encouraged Tom to tell Lisa before anyone else did because having it come from him would have been kinder than from anyone else, even if you or your husband sat with him while confessing. But if he came to you and asked you not to tell because he only came out of the need for advice I still think it's wrong to betray that trust. It was his mess to clean up, not yours.
White Flower Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 But one last thought: My take on the attitudes of some is that certain people - ahem - are PO'd that an affair was thwarted. This wasn't about an affair being thwarted; actually, it ended in D and remarriage so happy ending for the OW and MM! This is about having trust in those you confide in. I won't be mean here but I will point out a few different perspectives.. Caitlyn and her H helped an OW get her man... or Caitlyn and her H helped a BW get rid of her man... or Caitlyn and her H helped one family become two much more happier families. Regardless of how you choose to see it, Caitlyn and her H played a huge role in it. Caitlyn only allows herself to see good in her role. I can see the good from a few perspectives, just not all.
Athena Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Hmm, I dunno about that... another perspective is that Tom and W would have done what they chose to do, regardless of Caitlyn and H! No one can make you divorce. Lord knows, I would already have been divorced YEARS ago if that were true.
complicatedlife Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 I'm really confused. How was I trying to hurt you? Where did I attack you? I was stating a reality. You were an ow. You said your mom knew. I find that an odd contradiction of your moms values. Do your own actions hurt you when you read them? Do you like to pretend it is not true. So he is now your boyfriend, is he divorced yet? His kids don't like you, why is that? So because my mom knew, does that mean she APPROVED? Keeping someone's confidence does not mean approval. She said the things that I am sure anyone's mom would say to them if they were in a situation as such, but if you were familiar with my story, you'd understand a little more. My MM was separated at some point. Yes, he is my boyfriend, and yes he is divorced. I haven't officially met his children yet, so I don't know why you are saying that they don't like me.
complicatedlife Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 You are really being mean now and trying to hurt Reggie. Very sad and not very becoming. Yes, I AM being mean. Attack me all you want, but you are not going to attack my family - particularly my mom and dad whom I love unto death; they are good people - and not just to me, to everyone. I find it odd that you tell me that I am trying to hurt him, yet you take no issue with him calling my family "whacky". Must be a BS sticking up for BS kinda thing.
complicatedlife Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Because you said this. I assumed that meant the kids didn't like you. So he has been divorced. You have been seeing him since 2007 and you have yet to meet the kids? That's rather odd. I really don't care to go into details- they're all here in posts and threads if you want to read them and know what happened.
complicatedlife Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 LOL not to be mean, honest, but I also find it a little crazy shall we say, that your parents have such high regard for marriage and yet absolutely love your boyfriend who proceeded to court you while he was married. He even went back home for a bit after separating if I remember correctly. Well...if you REALLY are familiar with my situation, then you'd also know that the former wife in this situation was seeing another man as well as committing embezzlement and fraud against my boyfriend - that's how he got the majority of custody. So, uh....YEAH. They love him. My parents don't judge people and they know that everyone deserves a chance, particularly my boyfriend who was unfortunately highly deceived.
complicatedlife Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 I'm really confused. How was I trying to hurt you? Where did I attack you? I was stating a reality. You were an ow. You said your mom knew. I find that an odd contradiction of your moms values. Do your own actions hurt you when you read them? Do you like to pretend it is not true. Here: Odd your parents have such a respect for marriage, integrity and keeping someone confidential info and yet they have no problem with you sleeping with a married man. Such a contradiction. My dad didn't know he was married until he was divorced. And I never said my parents approved, either - you're just making assumptions along the way. God knows why. and here: Ooops nevermind that's right I forgot. As long as you ask for forgiveness you can do whatever immoral act you like. Now this I don't get. But, hey, it's attack CL day - shoulda known it'd one day be my turn after being here for 2 years!
GreenEyedLady Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 But, hey, it's attack CL day - shoulda known it'd one day be my turn after being here for 2 years! Seems like old times, huh? I think some of the BS's forgot this forum was not theirs... The thing I don't get is why nobody ever called the OP out on why she would even seek out a forum for OW. It seems pretty unlikely that a "betrayed friend" would find loveshack at all. Aw, but who cares? I think it's a sham anyway...Lovely debate though...It's fun to come here and see some people will back the craziest notion if it kinda fits with their point of view...And that other people completely ignore the obvious. GEL
complicatedlife Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 How is stating the truth an attack. You WERE sleeping with a married man. You did sleep with him before he was separated. You already commented that your dad is going to pray for me because of my user name. Is it not true that your belief is as long as you ask forgiveness you will be forgiven your sin? Again I just spoke the truth. Do you feel attacked and uncomfortable with your own truth of your situation? Can you not face your truth? I will answer this last one and then I'm thinking of putting you on ignore, because based on my professional background, I think you have some sort of psychosis or some sort of delusional way of thinking. And I really mean that. (Maybe it's just a serious case of provocation - but damn is it ever provoking, and let me tell ya - I have got some thick skin!) How do you know that I slept with him BEFORE he was separated? Fact is, I actually did not. He knew if he wanted that, what I required. And I never stated what my own personal belief is at all (where do you get these things from??). This is not the appropriate place to be discussing my spiritual views or my beliefs on forgiveness. You don't speak anything of the truth; what you are doing is speaking on purposeful and deliberate ignorance and a distortion of what you deem as the "truth". Next time you want to debate with someone who actually has some good sense, who is intelligent and was the captain of her debate team, come correct with FACTS. That double doctorate degree my dad has? Oh - the other one is in Philosophy. So I can sit here and argue all kinds of points all day and night long as debating and "why" is the norm over at my folks'/siblings houses. Any other questions from you I will now defer to my past posts and threads. Goodbye.
fooled once Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Hey OP - I am so sorry that this thread of yours has turned into what mosts posts here seem to turn into - infighting among others. To answer your questions - I don't think people in affairs think about anything else but themselves. I don't think they think of the damage they are causing to anyone - not the spouse who has no idea what is going on, not the kids who are innocent victims and certainly not friends. I think it was incredibly wrong of Tom to come to your H and dump his problems on him. I don't think YOU forced anyone to do anything and I don't think your H is p*ssywhipped No where did you post that Tom told your H to not say anything and from your own posts, your H didn't say a word to you about it - in fact, he did just the opposite when you asked him about it. <sigh> I am glad you and your H let Tom know you two would not be a party to betraying his spouse any longer I am glad you two were GOOD friends to Lisa and told Tom to fess up. I am sorry how hurt your H was by Tom's actions. Quite frankly, I couldn't be friends with the woman who intentionally started screwing a married man. Nope. Wouldn't do it - if only out of respect to Lisa. Do NOT let anyone here make you feel like your actions or your H's actions were in anyway wrong. As to spouses telling each other things ~ each marriage is different and just because one set of spouses don't tell each other things doesn't mean THAT is the correct way. Do I have 'secrets' from my H? Yes and no. His daughter and I are very close and we talk about many things that he doesn't need to know about. IF she ever told me anything that was in some way harmful to her or illegal, I would definitely tell her father so he can be aware. I hope you and your H heal from the betrayals of your friend Tom. I hope Lisa is having a great life now that she has gotten the lying, cheater out of her life. I believe if I had been in the same situation, I would have told Lisa myself. I wouldn't be able to keep that from her - I couldn't risk my friend to STD's from her cheating spouse. I would want to know if my friend knew something that my husband was doing which could cause harm to me. Stand strong in your convictions and know that no 2 people would do the exact same thing in any situation. All you can do is follow your own set of morals and values. I wish you and your H well and hope that one day, Tom can see how hurtful his actions were to a lot of people. Many people in Affairs don't think of anyone but themselves and their own instant gratification or happiness. I firmly believe if you are that unhappy in your marriage, the RIGHT thing to do is talk to your spouse, get counseling, get a divorce BEFORE moving into another relationship and hurting other people.
NoIDidn't Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Seems like old times, huh? I think some of the BS's forgot this forum was not theirs... Well, actually this forum isn't yours anymore either. Yet, you still come here and attempt to control everyone that posts here. Methinks the lady dost protest too much.
Reggie Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 You are really being mean now and trying to hurt Reggie. Very sad and not very becoming. Well, I'm not really hurt. I just find it amazing that these educated folks who are counselors etc. have such warped values. CIL, you have a true mean streak, very bitter and defensive. You brought your family into this, as if their views have any authority. Since you paraded their views as if they mean something, they are the subject of criticism. My Uncle Edgar happens to agree with the OP. He quaterbacked the University of Vermont football team, has a black belt in Karate, and a 230 bowling average. He also happens to be an usher at his church and has offered to pray for you and your family. Who cares what your mom and sainted dad think? You admit that they keep secrets from each other and that your mom did not even inform your dad that their daughter was having an affair. That is whacked, IMO.
Lyssa Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Hey Pot! Have you met Kettle?? Some things never change. *sigh*
complicatedlife Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Well, I'm not really hurt. I just find it amazing that these educated folks who are counselors etc. have such warped values.CIL, you have a true mean streak, very bitter and defensive. Actually, today was the very first day that I was and it was all directed at you; as if I care what YOU think! You brought your family into this, as if their views have any authority. And if you had really read the thread like you should have instead of being on the OW/OM attack (as in myself and GEL) you would have been able to to that no one here said that their view had authority, especially me, who is for the most always advocating for people being able to express their view points no matter what they are; I posed a different view as many here did, yet you are not attacking them. Funny that the OP didn't see what you see! Perhaps it's because she read my posts?Since you paraded their views as if they mean something, they are the subject of criticism. Lol - everyone paraded their views as if they mean something - they are THEIR VIEWS!! I'd take a good listen to the view of any couple, married or not who make it past 20 years. But that's me. I also wasn't aware that posts here are made to be "criticized". But thanks for the enlightement. My Uncle Edgar happens to agree with the OP. He quaterbacked the University of Vermont football team, has a black belt in Karate, and a 230 bowling average. He also happens to be an usher at his church and has offered to pray for you and your family. Well, shoot, send me a PM and we can get it started asap! But you know you don't really mean this, so cut it out and stop trying to garner "points". You know if you really meant that you wouldn't be here barking at me,but I'll be waiting for that PM...just in case. Who cares what your mom and sainted dad think? You admit that they keep secrets from each other and that your mom did not even inform your dad that their daughter was having an affair. That is whacked, IMO. And who here cares what your Uncle Edgar thinks? (To quote the same thing to you as you said about my family - could it be that you are expressing a VIEW? OMG! Lol. But I will actually take that back against your uncle because I respect my elders and people involved in the church). Especially if he thinks as you do. With your incorrect facts and all! READ, people, READ! When you can tell me that your parents or any couple in your family - or even a couple that is not related to you has made it happily past 40 years like my mom and dad, 48+ years as my good friends' parents, or 70+ years like my grandparents who also keep their friends' confidence...oops...I mean "keep secrets"....then you can talk to me with some legitimacy. Until then, your comments mean nothing - all you are doing is trying to insult people who you don't like here - which is pretty much every OW in this forum - for the life of me, I can't understand why you're here...Oh, right....to set us straight by belittling us. I forgot. You find pleasure in insulting people- your uncle needs to do some praying for you (and perhaps you for yourself and your peace of mind) because not only is it unnecessary, it's just downright MEAN and INHUMANE. I responded to you as I did because you set out to attack not me, but my family who is not here to defend themselves. And you call other people whacked with this kind of attitude? I think I feel the ignore button.... Sorry for the threadjack, once again, Caitlyn.
complicatedlife Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Hey Pot! Have you met Kettle?? Some things never change. *sigh* Yep. It's sad - but I tried to be nice for 2 years - you see what it got me!
Athena Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Actually, today was the very first day that I was and it was all directed at you; as if I care what YOU think! And if you had really read the thread like you should have instead of being on the OW/OM attack (as in myself and GEL) you would have been able to to that no one here said that their view had authority, especially me, who is for the most always advocating for people being able to express their view points no matter what they are; I posed a different view as many here did, yet you are not attacking them. Funny that the OP didn't see what you see! Perhaps it's because she read my posts? Lol - everyone paraded their views as if they mean something - they are THEIR VIEWS!! I'd take a good listen to the view of any couple, married or not who make it past 20 years. But that's me. I also wasn't aware that posts here are made to be "criticized". But thanks for the enlightement. Well, shoot, send me a PM and we can get it started asap! But you know you don't really mean this, so cut it out and stop trying to garner "points". You know if you really meant that you wouldn't be here barking at me,but I'll be waiting for that PM...just in case. And who here cares what your Uncle Edgar thinks? (To quote the same thing to you as you said about my family - could it be that you are expressing a VIEW? OMG! Lol. But I will actually take that back against your uncle because I respect my elders and people involved in the church). Especially if he thinks as you do. With your incorrect facts and all! READ, people, READ! When you can tell me that your parents or any couple in your family - or even a couple that is not related to you has made it happily past 40 years like my mom and dad, 48+ years as my good friends' parents, or 70+ years like my grandparents who also keep their friends' confidence...oops...I mean "keep secrets"....then you can talk to me with some legitimacy. Until then, your comments mean nothing - all you are doing is trying to insult people who you don't like here - which is pretty much every OW in this forum - for the life of me, I can't understand why you're here...Oh, right....to set us straight by belittling us. I forgot. You find pleasure in insulting people- your uncle needs to do some praying for you (and perhaps you for yourself and your peace of mind) because not only is it unnecessary, it's just downright MEAN and INHUMANE. I responded to you as I did because you set out to attack not me, but my family who is not here to defend themselves. And you call other people whacked with this kind of attitude? I think I feel the ignore button.... Sorry for the threadjack, once again, Caitlyn. A very good rebuttal!
Athena Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 That is whacked, IMO. ... meanie... pushing people's red buttons, eh?
Reggie Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Okay, ran this by my mom(married 55 years). She agrees that the OP acted in her firend's best interest and that keeping this a secret from her friend was wrong. There were two friends involved here, not just Tom. How does you mom feel about the fact that Tom was continuing to expose his wife to STDs, CL?
Reggie Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 ... meanie... pushing people's red buttons, eh? I guess, Athena. I've seen GEl accuse this woman of having a poor relationship with her spouse, call her spouse p-whipped and make allegations that the OP forced her H to disclose the info. None of this has any basis. And, I give no credence to a mom who fails to discuss her daughter's adultery with her daughter's father. That, IMO,is dysfunctional. All the allegiance advocated is to Tom. Why not consider the OP's allegiance to Lisa? She was the one being damaged and put at health risks.
Reggie Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Yep. It's sad - but I tried to be nice for 2 years - you see what it got me! Well, keep trying. Maybe you will get it right.
Athena Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 I've seen GEl accuse this woman of having a poor relationship with her spouse, call her spouse p-whipped and make allegations that the OP forced her H to disclose the info. None of this has any basis. I do agree with this. I found it quite surprising to see the attacks on OP, esp by GEL who, from reading a few of her previous posts, I thought would be fair <shrug>.
complicatedlife Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 I guess, Athena. I've seen GEl accuse this woman of having a poor relationship with her spouse, call her spouse p-whipped and make allegations that the OP forced her H to disclose the info. None of this has any basis. And, I give no credence to a mom who fails to discuss her daughter's adultery with her daughter's father. That, IMO,is dysfunctional. All the allegiance advocated is to Tom. Why not consider the OP's allegiance to Lisa? She was the one being damaged and put at health risks. I am still waiting on the prayer PM! And I don't care if you give my mom credence, and neither does she; I don't recall asking you for any credence! EVERYONE IS ENTITLED TO THEIR OWN VIEW AND OPINION- what the hell makes you think that YOURS IS THE CORRECT ONE? Just for the record, I didn't commit adultery, I was not married, I was free and single. Geesh - get the facts right. Everyone says Tom is wrong for what he did. Some people here have very selective reading. But the real and true dysfunctional thing here is your numerous attempts to hammer on and bark at people here instead of trying to have a polite debate in which you agree to disagree; that's what mature adults do. I hope the hammering and barking gives you plenty of nocturnal emissions.
Reggie Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Well...if you REALLY are familiar with my situation, then you'd also know that the former wife in this situation was seeing another man as well as committing embezzlement and fraud against my boyfriend - that's how he got the majority of custody. So, uh....YEAH. They love him. My parents don't judge people and they know that everyone deserves a chance, particularly my boyfriend who was unfortunately highly deceived. Oh, the old embezzlement/fraud exception to adultery(as opposed to the leap year exception, which is equally valid). Sorry, I did not realise that had been invoked. I'm sure the minister thinks it is okay then, eh? Oh, forgot. Nobody told him.
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