A Different Perspective

[GreenEyedLady]

I have been respectful, why can't you be the same?

 

I am being respectful. I have given you a different perspective which you don't like.

 

GEL

[2sure]

When people divorce for any reason - many circles beyond immediate family are affected. Its one of the difficulties. Friends are often put into the uncomfortable position of either having to choose or having to know more than they want.

 

Unfortunately, when couples choose to divorce regardless of the reason...I just cant see them making others their priority when making decisions or mistakes.

 

It sucks to be put in the middle of anything, but you did the right thing. You told him to speak to his wife. He did. She understood your position.

He has moved on. She has as well or is at least moving past.

[Caitlyn]

I am being respectful. I have given you a different perspective which you don't like.

 

GEL

 

No, you told me I'm mental for giving my friendships so much meaning. That, IMO, is an attack.

 

I have every right to value my friendships highly & honestly, I feel sorry for you if you've never had such a level of friendship.

 

The fact of the matter is, affairs do hurt a lot of people & ignoring that fact is not going to make the damage just disappear.

 

I really am glad you found happiness, but at what cost to the people around you who you "cared" about? How many lives did you impact with your choices & did either of you ever say a single "I'm sorry" to the people hurt along the way?

[MistyK]

Thanks for responding. I'm beginning to understand better & you gave a term for it, the affairfog. His acts were very self serving & to this day, he refuses to accept responsibility for the chaos he caused. His first conversation after the fallout should of started with a "I'm sorry" instead of "Hey, is it cool if I bring my mistress over to the holiday party at your place?"

 

Also, you are 100% right, if he didn't think of his wife/kids, there is no way he considered anyone else.

 

Why are you acting like the W here? He shouldn't have put you in the middle, but he doesn't need to apologize to you for having an A! And the "mistress" is now his W, so if you want to accept him as a friend, guess what, she comes with him now. Is your moral high-horse woeth ditching the friendship entirely?

[Reggie]

Not much to add, except I really respect what you did for your friend, his wife. She was being lied to and , most likely , gaslit. She was being exposed to STDs without her knowledge or consent.

I was in her position and only wish some of our mutual friends had acted with the integrity you displayed.

The notion that you interferred or were in some way responsible for the demise of their marriage is absurd, IMO. But, consider the source for this notion, a woman who felt no guilt and had no conscience about her actions in having an affair with a married man. No credibility there, IMO.

[delirious]

Let's just explore this:

 

If you truly think YOU should have been taken into consideration when someone has an A, (and you are not the spouse) you need to talk to a professional.

 

You are not important in other people's decisions, period.

 

Now I agree Tom was dumb in confiding in your H. He should have realized who wears the pants in your family. But he said he was contemplating and you and your H intervened, god bless your souls.

 

I think is a pretty good example of what happens if you tell the W. Kill the messenger syndrome. You assume that Lisa was mad you didn't tell her sooner. Perhaps she was mad that you forced him to tell her when she'd RATHER NOT KNOW. There are those people, you know. And you forced her deal with what was a dealbreaker to her.

 

He did tell his W and he left her and he is still not your friend. So your limit was higher, no?

 

Your H did suffer a loss, and I'm sure he's pissed you at now.

 

I think you seriously need to reread everything that you've written. I mainly wrote my first post because it just screamed out at me the very obvious and being controversial as I am, gave YOU a different perspective on it.

 

And now that you write more, I can see you're actually serious and that's

 

JUST SCARY

 

to me.

 

GEL

 

 

LOL that is just so funny, right on GEL!! I find this OP totally unbelievable.

[Adunaphel]

I partly agree with GEL.

 

IMO if a friend of the couple decides to intervene after he received a confidence, he has to face responsability for his/her decision. As a friend.

It is an awful position to be in. I have been in it and *hated* it.

But if someone decides to tell or not to tell, to force or not to force, to threaten or not to threaten, it is *his/her* choice. If you, as a friend, *choose* to intervene, it is *your* choice.

*You* are the one that either gets thanked and gets to be regarded as a Real Friend or gets to lose the friendship.

If you get to lose the friendship it is a result of a choice *you* make, it is partly the cheater's fault (it was selfish on his part to confide in you and put you in a bad position), but it is not the affair partner's fault. Expecially if he/she didn't even know you.

 

As an OW, while I might have stopped to consider the hurt I might have caused to MM's W, I did not take into account, not even for a moment, any problems his friends might have. It is his friends, not his underage kids. And it is up to him to decide what, when, and if to tell his friends.

[jj33]

Why is this the OWs fault that the WS couldnt keep his mouth shut?

 

Why arent you blaming Tom?

[Reggie]

Tom's a jerk. OW is without morals. So, no problme. You did the right thing. You are better off without people like this in your life. Good work.

[Caitlyn]

Why are you acting like the W here? He shouldn't have put you in the middle, but he doesn't need to apologize to you for having an A! And the "mistress" is now his W, so if you want to accept him as a friend, guess what, she comes with him now. Is your moral high-horse woeth ditching the friendship entirely?

 

No high horse here, no one is perfect & I have made my share of mistakes, but I take responsibility for my actions & accept the consequences of those actions. That IMO is not a moral high horse, it's just a basic principal of life.

 

I don't feel I'm acting like his wife, I'm just looking out for my best friend, my husband. He deserved better from Tom. He doesn't have a negative bone in his body & he has even said if Tom just said sorry for the lies, he would of accepted & they would still be friends. IMO, Tom is the one who devalued the friendship, not myself, nor my husband.

 

As for the apologizing, I agree, he doesn't need to apologize for having the affair, he made his choice and it was his alone to make. I do however thinks he needs to apologize for being dishonest with my husband & me.

 

I also understand that his mistress is now his wife and had he made better choices when the affair came out, things would be different. I would be pleasant to her, I'd never say anything negative about her because I would respect where their relationship is now, a marriage. Over time, she may even have become our friend, but we won't know because Tom wanted it all at once, no time to let the storm settle, nope, he wanted us to welcome her with open arms before he had even moved out of the house he shared with Lisa. Sorry, I'm an understanding person, but that was to much for even me.

[MistyK]

I don't feel I'm acting like his wife, I'm just looking out for my best friend, my husband. He deserved better from Tom. He doesn't have a negative bone in his body & he has even said if Tom just said sorry for the lies, he would of accepted & they would still be friends. IMO, Tom is the one who devalued the friendship, not myself, nor my husband.

 

Ok, but then isn't that between Tom and your H? I understand your point, but generalizing anger - having it for your H is just going to eat you up.

If your H forgives him for putting him in a terrible position, are you still going to be pissed?

 

 

As for the apologizing, I agree, he doesn't need to apologize for having the affair, he made his choice and it was his alone to make. I do however thinks he needs to apologize for being dishonest with my husband & me.

 

Dishonest about having an A at all or about the physical aspect he left out in his disclosure? I don't think the details matter in the slightest - that's an issue between him and his xW and he doesn't need to apologize to you for not giving you all the sordid details. He doesn't owe you that. (You can't know what his motivation was in telling your H about the prospective A- maybe he was looking for help but feared your judgement of him.) What he does need to apologize for is putting you in the middle.

 

I understand that accepting the W is going to be a tough pill for you to swallow given how it all went down. (And you don't have to - it's your choice if you want them both out of your life.) But just as you shouldn't feel your H's anger/betrayal, you needn't internalize Lisa's either.

[Caitlyn]

I partly agree with GEL.

 

IMO if a friend of the couple decides to intervene after he received a confidence, he has to face responsability for his/her decision. As a friend.

It is an awful position to be in. I have been in it and *hated* it.

But if someone decides to tell or not to tell, to force or not to force, to threaten or not to threaten, it is *his/her* choice. If you, as a friend, *choose* to intervene, it is *your* choice.

*You* are the one that either gets thanked and gets to be regarded as a Real Friend or gets to lose the friendship.

If you get to lose the friendship it is a result of a choice *you* make, it is partly the cheater's fault (it was selfish on his part to confide in you and put you in a bad position), but it is not the affair partner's fault. Expecially if he/she didn't even know you.

 

As an OW, while I might have stopped to consider the hurt I might have caused to MM's W, I did not take into account, not even for a moment, any problems his friends might have. It is his friends, not his underage kids. And it is up to him to decide what, when, and if to tell his friends.

 

 

I respect your opinion, but I disagree. Tom put us in a horrible position. He lied to us, he lied to his family & he expected us to lie to people on his behalf when he knew how important honesty is to both of us. How is that not Tom's fault?

[Reggie]

Good job , Caitlyn, of analyzing this and seeing where this guy was wrong to lie to your H. You protected your friend, his wife , and that is honorable.

[Adunaphel]

I respect your opinion, but I disagree. Tom put us in a horrible position. He lied to us, he lied to his family & he expected us to lie to people on his behalf when he knew how important honesty is to both of us. How is that not Tom's fault?

 

I actually fully agree that it is Tom's fault that your H and you were put into an horrible position. I think it was very selfish of him to confide in your H and to expect that he kept the secret. If I were your H, I'd be mad at Tom.

I also would find it unacceptable to expect your friends to lie for you - expecially when they are not liars, and they are friends with the person they are supposed to lie to (or to keep something from).

Said that, while it is Tom's fault that you were put into a position where you had to make a choice that might deeply impact on your friendships, IMO the outcome of your choice (to tell or not to tell, to intervene or to stay out) is... well, the outcome of a choice you made.

So it's his fault you had to make a choice, but you had freedom to pick either of the two (unpleasant) options.

Also, it is bad that he lied to his family... but as you are not his family, it is up to you to decide whether lying to his family is a dealbreaker for your friendship. While he chose to lie to his family, it is up to you whether lying to one's family is a dealbreaker for your friendships.

Does it make any sense?

 

ps while reading your first post I kept wondering: what does the other person have to do with this situation?

[Caitlyn]

Ok, but then isn't that between Tom and your H? I understand your point, but generalizing anger - having it for your H is just going to eat you up.

If your H forgives him for putting him in a terrible position, are you still going to be pissed?

 

 

Husband hasn't forgiven him, but stated he likely would if Tom has just apologized. (and yes, you are right, it should be about putting us into the middle of it all, a place we had no business being)

 

If my husband were to have that convo with Tom and were to become friends again, I wouldn't have any issue with him. My husbands happiness is far more important to me than harboring ill feelings for Tom. My anger is based on what my husband was forced to go through & the lingering issue of trust my husband has with his other male friends.

 

Dishonest about having an A at all or about the physical aspect he left out in his disclosure? I don't think the details matter in the slightest - that's an issue between him and his xW and he doesn't need to apologize to you for not giving you all the sordid details. He doesn't owe you that. (You can't know what his motivation was in telling your H about the prospective A- maybe he was looking for help but feared your judgement of him.) What he does need to apologize for is putting you in the middle.

 

Just the lack of honesty in general I guess. Neither of us wanted the sorid details, heck we didn't ask for any of this. Tom's motivation doesn't even matter any longer, what matters is how he handled it in such a horrible way.

 

I understand that accepting the W is going to be a tough pill for you to swallow given how it all went down. (And you don't have to - it's your choice if you want them both out of your life.) But just as you shouldn't feel your H's anger/betrayal, you needn't internalize Lisa's either.

 

Lisa is doing fine, she was a strong woman and she handled it all very well. She hasn't shown much anger at all, sadness yes, but not a lot of anger. She has made her peace with Tom and his new wife. Lisa also knows that my husband has been unable to do the same because of the lack of communication between the two men. That is why I came here and posted. I wanted to have the other sides opinions before approaching the subject with my husband again. I wanted to fully understand what we both would be facing if my husband chooses to reach out to Tom.

 

Aslo, thank you for the response.

[Caitlyn]

I actually fully agree that it is Tom's fault that your H and you were put into an horrible position. I think it was very selfish of him to confide in your H and to expect that he kept the secret. If I were your H, I'd be mad at Tom.

I also would find it unacceptable to expect your friends to lie for you - expecially when they are not liars, and they are friends with the person they are supposed to lie to (or to keep something from).

Said that, while it is Tom's fault that you were put into a position where you had to make a choice that might deeply impact on your friendships, IMO the outcome of your choice (to tell or not to tell, to intervene or to stay out) is... well, the outcome of a choice you made.

So it's his fault you had to make a choice, but you had freedom to pick either of the two (unpleasant) options.

Also, it is bad that he lied to his family... but as you are not his family, it is up to you to decide whether lying to his family is a dealbreaker for your friendship. While he chose to lie to his family, it is up to you whether lying to one's family is a dealbreaker for your friendships.

Does it make any sense?

 

ps while reading your first post I kept wondering: what does the other person have to do with this situation?

 

 

Makes perfect sense.

 

And yes, honesty to your family is very important to us. We considered him family, he was the best man at our wedding. He is the god father of our children & even my extended family all considered him a part of our clan. He was more like a brother to my husband & because of that, I would move on for the sack of my husband. He's a good man and if it would make him happy, then I'll support it 100%.

 

As for what the OW has to do with this all. Well she is Tom's wife now & if Tom is brought back into our lives, she will be a part of that. Understanding things from her perspective is important to me because of her place in Tom's life. (does that make sense?)

[2sure]

Does Tom want a current relationship with you and your husband? I mean, does he know that if he apologizes sincerely to your husband that you both feel the relationship can resume?

 

Does he want it to resume? Has Tom sought out your Husband for friendship since the divorce?

Do you and your husband want to establish a friendship with Tom and his new wife? Will Lisa feel betrayed by you yet again if you do?

 

If Tom was missing the friendship , its quite possible he would have apologized. It sounds as though its non issue for him.

[donnamaybe]

How about this perspective?

 

If you hadn't forced an answer out of your H, perhaps Tom would have pulled his s*** together and the A would run its course, OW and Tom are not forced together and Tom realizes he messed up, goes home, is a better H to Lisa and they live happily ever after.

 

Did I miss something, or are pigs flying now?

[MistyK]

My anger is based on what my husband was forced to go through & the lingering issue of trust my husband has with his other male friends.

 

I have to say that I am not sure why your H is having such a severe reaction to this. Not eating for days? Not trusting other male friends? Does infidelity really get to him for some reason in particular?

 

As far as the OW, one can only guess at her state of mind. Did she get pregnant on purpose? As an OW, I considered a preg with MM as a fate worse than death. (I have two other kids who need my care and the idea of adding a 3rd with no real support was a nightmare beyond comprehension). However, there are women who think that getting preg will make an MM leave their W. One poster here had 3 kids with a MM and he was STILL with his W. Makes me think bunny-boiler.

 

Assuming it was all an accident, she's probably just like the rest of us, in love with a unavilable man. She may be somewhat embarrassed that the A came to light because she knows people will view her as a wh*re no matter who pursued who. She probably also knows many people in Tom's life will not accept her. It is not a fun position to be in.

[Caitlyn]

Why is this the OWs fault that the WS couldnt keep his mouth shut?

 

Why arent you blaming Tom?

 

Sorry, but what does WS stand for? I have most of the other ones, OW, OM BS and so on, but don't know this one.

 

As for blaming Tom, yes, he is at fault. He made the mistakes and he is the source of most of my issues.

 

The only issue I have with his new wife is that she went into the relationship fully aware that he was married & that is not okay IMO. She also, IMO, made some bad choices by not waiting until Tom had ended things with Lisa before beginning a relationship. BUT, those are just my personal opinions, ones my husband shares, but we both agreed long ago they were opinions best left to ourselves. It is not our place to judge her.

[MistyK]

WS - wayward spouse

[donnamaybe]

You are not important in other people's decisions, period.

 

You know, you provide a lot of good advice, GEL, but if the above is true, then why does this forum even exist? If outsiders were not important in other people's decisions, no one would come here and listen to said "other people" in pondering a decision.

[Caitlyn]

Does Tom want a current relationship with you and your husband? I mean, does he know that if he apologizes sincerely to your husband that you both feel the relationship can resume?

 

Does he want it to resume? Has Tom sought out your Husband for friendship since the divorce?

Do you and your husband want to establish a friendship with Tom and his new wife? Will Lisa feel betrayed by you yet again if you do?

 

If Tom was missing the friendship , its quite possible he would have apologized. It sounds as though its non issue for him.

 

Tom has asked the single family member of his that still speaks to him if we have mentioned him at all. We have not because it is not a subject either of us feel should be talked about to Tom's family. That is why I suspect that it may be time for my husband to sit down with Tom and talk this out. Tom seems to be testing the waters, but has always gotten the same answer, "They haven't said a word about you in months" so I wonder if it is time that he get a different answer, like "Yeah, he thinks it's time to talk"

[2sure]

It just seems like in this case, Lisa got to keep you and your husband. And since you and H both have been so upset with Tom regarding his behavior toward his family and your family...

 

Why bother? I mean, I get that your H and Tom were friends and that your H possibly feels betrayed and abandoned and that you feel bad for him...

 

But. When a crisis happens, when a tragedy occurs - made of our own doing or not...we apologize to those whose entire lives we have affected. Tom knows what he has done to his children, he lives with it and is probably sorry for it. How he made your H feel has probably not occurred to him. With all the damage and upheaval, your H's feelings just havent come up.

 

In talking to Tom, asking for an apology or just telling him he feels betrayed....I mean, do guys even do that??

[Caitlyn]

I have to say that I am not sure why your H is having such a severe reaction to this. Not eating for days? Not trusting other male friends? Does infidelity really get to him for some reason in particular?

 

As far as the OW, one can only guess at her state of mind. Did she get pregnant on purpose? As an OW, I considered a preg with MM as a fate worse than death. (I have two other kids who need my care and the idea of adding a 3rd with no real support was a nightmare beyond comprehension). However, there are women who think that getting preg will make an MM leave their W. One poster here had 3 kids with a MM and he was STILL with his W. Makes me think bunny-boiler.

 

Assuming it was all an accident, she's probably just like the rest of us, in love with a unavilable man. She may be somewhat embarrassed that the A came to light because she knows people will view her as a wh*re no matter who pursued who. She probably also knows many people in Tom's life will not accept her. It is not a fun position to be in.

 

My husband has a family plaqued by affairs, a lot of them. They are really a mess actually. Because of that, he has an immense respect for marriage and any marriage close to him that falls apart he takes personally. He also guilts himself into believing that he could of done more to be there for them when in reality, there was nothing he could do. He had worked past much of his family issues, but Tom brought them back to the surface.