Athena Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 He sees I'm trying to be close to him, but that I have changed... and at the same time, he can't get over what I've done to him and that holds him back from getting close to me... I wonder if the love can come back... Yes it can come back if it was once there. What your H needs from you is Respect (your A showed him none), admiration, and a belief in him. What you need from your H is affection and love. Try both of you, to give these to each other.
Athena Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 And do not be in such a hurry to determine what the conclusion is, do not make the Decision right now... give yourselves, say, one year from now to make that decision...
MistyK Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Thanks everyone for your posts. I know I didn't try hard enough, I guess I am a very weak and selfish person. I feel that I am not committed and I am not sure how to make myself be committed. To those that think my H doesn't know everything. He knows. He also knows my feelings, he knows I don't love him anymore the way I did, I told him that and he told me that he sees that too. He sees I'm trying to be close to him, but that I have changed... and at the same time, he can't get over what I've done to him and that holds him back from getting close to me... I wonder if the love can come back... or did it go away because he is just not right for me.. I did decide... I chose my family... I went full NC (I know it took a while but I did it).. but then I don't see changes in me or him... The decision was made with the part of me that still thinks rationally, however my heart is still somewhere else. I guess that's not really deciding. I failed and with my failure I made people I care for suffer. You don't HAVE to try to FORCE yourself to love someone. You just don't. Many people here will insist that you "drown the dead plant" because they have some projection issues going on....just make your decision from what's best for you and your child. Don't be led by your guilt (which people here seem intent upon twisting the knife in), or fear. I think you did try. I think you know that. You went NC. You gave up a hugely important person in your life to work on your M. That's not nothing. You can't say you didn't try just cause you didn't succeed. If you can't love him again, accept what is and move on.
MistyK Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Misty, you're the one who tried to comfort her by telling her that "she tried". Others disagreed with YOUR assessment. What makes them any less right than you for giving THEIR assessment? In the original post, she said she tried. Then came the dogpile of "I'm not convinced you tried hard enough." Why does anyone here insist that she prove she tried hard enough to meet your standards? I was simply reflecting what SHE said, that SHE TRIED. That's enough for me.
Snowflower Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 I know it's popular around here to advise everyone to try to work on the M no matter what. But from the OP's posts I'm not seeing that she really wants to. Fear isn't a good reason to stay. Neither the the OM a good reason to leave. Based on all of the above it would appear that she's better off leaving both men and moving on. Actually, I find the opposite is true here...it seems most people are told to just divorce and get it over with, rather than try to work on the marriage. But there is a lot of projection that goes on here from all sides, whether it is from a BS, AP, or WS.
Owl Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 In the original post, she said she tried. Then came the dogpile of "I'm not convinced you tried hard enough." Why does anyone here insist that she prove she tried hard enough to meet your standards? I was simply reflecting what SHE said, that SHE TRIED. That's enough for me. But her actions as described in her post don't support her claim of trying. She has even come back since and indicated that SHE realizes that she didn't really "TRY". The thing is...no one was attacking her when they said that she didn't try. It wasn't an insult...it was an honest evaluation of her actions to "try" as indicated by the information she supplied...an evaluation she agreed with. There was nothing wrong with the feedback she got...from me, or anyone else. It's fine if you disagree with other posters, don't take me wrong. But telling them that they couldn't/shouldn't post something simply because you don't agree with it isn't the way to go.
Owl Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Actually, I find the opposite is true here...it seems most people are told to just divorce and get it over with, rather than try to work on the marriage. But there is a lot of projection that goes on here from all sides, whether it is from a BS, AP, or WS. I'd say it's probably a pretty balanced mix. You've got Dex, Reggie, and the 'Cudda who advocate divorce and moving on. You've got WWIU, myself and others who typically recommend trying to reconcile (assuming that it appears to make sense to do so...there are some situations that are clearly unsalvageable). You get a good mix of views here, which makes this place a good sounding board most of the time.
Snowflower Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 I'd say it's probably a pretty balanced mix. You've got Dex, Reggie, and the 'Cudda who advocate divorce and moving on. You've got WWIU, myself and others who typically recommend trying to reconcile (assuming that it appears to make sense to do so...there are some situations that are clearly unsalvageable). You get a good mix of views here, which makes this place a good sounding board most of the time. I hope you're right here with this assessment, owl. And I have seen some some excellent advice doled out here, even from some posters who I tend to disagree with most of the time. I know that this place has been immensely helpful to me as I have worked through my own marital recovery. I wish I had found LS last year, when everything happened! It just seems like lately anyone who comes onto this board with a question about their particular marital situation has to defend themselves and the decisions they have made...against some of the other posters...no matter what side of the fence they are on. Starting a new sub-forum for those who have already decided to recover their marriages was suggested on another thread. It might be a good idea. But, if they can get past the part where they have to explain themselves, then there is some very helpful advice here. What happened to the OP?
Reggie Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Owl, I only advocate divorce in those cases where the WS is remorseless and unwilling to do the work. Otherwise, I am fine with reconciliation. I do want folks to recognize the odds, however.
Owl Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Owl, I only advocate divorce in those cases where the WS is remorseless and unwilling to do the work. Otherwise, I am fine with reconciliation. I do want folks to recognize the odds, however. I think you and I completely agree on this. The only thing I'd add is that I've seen that often in the very beginning...while they're still in the withdrawl state right after the end of the affair...most WS's aren't remorseful or willing to do the work to reconcile. BUT...that often changes as they slowly come out of the fog and out of the funk of withdrawl. So deciding immediately after d-day, while they're still in contact or in withdrawl from the end of contact with the OW/OM isn't a good timeframe to make this determination in. A few weeks/months later...certainly. And if they're not remorseful and willing by then...divorce is absolutely the best option IMHO.
eyeswide Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 You don't HAVE to try to FORCE yourself to love someone. You just don't. Many people here will insist that you "drown the dead plant" because they have some projection issues going on....just make your decision from what's best for you and your child. Don't be led by your guilt (which people here seem intent upon twisting the knife in), or fear. I think you did try. I think you know that. You went NC. You gave up a hugely important person in your life to work on your M. That's not nothing. You can't say you didn't try just cause you didn't succeed. If you can't love him again, accept what is and move on. I totally agree that OP might not be able to make it work, that the feelings just aren't going to be there...but having felt that way myself and spent 2 yrs wondering if I would ever be able to feel alive and engaged in my marriage and really truly able to see love in my husband's eyes again, I can assert without hesitation I have felt it and seen it again. Sadly, I also see the pain all around the edges that we have both caused each other. I know there are some who can't live with the love and the pain. Her H may be one of those. OP may be one of those. But, gosh, I'm telling you I'm so so so glad to have the love again, even with the pain.
Athena Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 I totally agree that OP might not be able to make it work, that the feelings just aren't going to be there...but having felt that way myself and spent 2 yrs wondering if I would ever be able to feel alive and engaged in my marriage and really truly able to see love in my husband's eyes again, I can assert without hesitation I have felt it and seen it again. Sadly, I also see the pain all around the edges that we have both caused each other. I know there are some who can't live with the love and the pain. Her H may be one of those. OP may be one of those. But, gosh, I'm telling you I'm so so so glad to have the love again, even with the pain. Yes, Time has a funny way of making you 'forget' the pain (not the knowledge, but the pain, and then even so the knowledge doesn't sit forefront any more after lots of time goes by)... so don't be in a rush to divorce... give yourselves time, OP, give yourselves a year to see...
Reggie Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 I think it is ver rare that a BS goes to the divorce card right away. The length of time a BS is willing to tolerate the continued abuse varies. For me, I tolerated it for about 5 months. During that time, I lost 35 lbs(and I was already pretty lean and in good shape). I could not sleep and could not focus on work. I had to witness my XWW getting dressed up and making plans to meet the OM at every opportunity. I got the silent treatment for the entire 5 months(my offense: I took her off our joint account, as she bounced $1000 in checks on the affair; I disclosed to her family;). A BS can only take so much.
bentnotbroken Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 I think it is ver rare that a BS goes to the divorce card right away. The length of time a BS is willing to tolerate the continued abuse varies. For me, I tolerated it for about 5 months. During that time, I lost 35 lbs(and I was already pretty lean and in good shape). I could not sleep and could not focus on work. I had to witness my XWW getting dressed up and making plans to meet the OM at every opportunity. I got the silent treatment for the entire 5 months(my offense: I took her off our joint account, as she bounced $1000 in checks on the affair; I disclosed to her family;). A BS can only take so much. I'm with you Reg.
Dexter Morgan Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 I think it is ver rare that a BS goes to the divorce card right away. The length of time a BS is willing to tolerate the continued abuse varies. also, absolutely in agreement here. Even when I found out, divorce was the furthest thing from my mind. It was too scary of a thought. I was in a desperation phase and didn't want to break up my kids' home(even though she was the one that cheated). but after the desperation was over, and I stopped acting like a beaten down lapdog, I was able to think more clearly and decided, a cheater wasn't who I wanted to spend the rest of my short life with. So I didn't immediately pull out the divorce card, but reached for it within 2 months.
In Like Flynn Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Just curious.....does your family know what is going on and what you did? Do you have a close relationship with you parents etc? I ask this because if you dump your husband......they will all know that you cheated on him for two years. No matter how some spin this where he wasn't meeting 1-2 needs and that "DROVE" you to cheat......bottom line no one deserves to be cheated on. You and your husband are responsible 50/50 for the state of your marriage....but you alone are 100% responsible for cheating. Counseling would have been a good option.....even divorce before you stepped out. If you divorce....do you plan on dating/marring the OM? If so how is that going to work.....bring him by the family??? I can't see them respecting him at all or even letting him near them....if they are decent people. Friends also will grab their spouses/boyfriends tight when around you so you don't go after them etc!!! Your husband will be destroyed....needing therapy. He will never trust another woman the same way again......nor should he!!! He will have to co-parent with you.....while seeing the OM in the car/home as you two exchange the kid etc. Another knife in the back!!! The son....gets to be passed back and forth between his parents, no more family Kodak moments and have the man who contributed to his family's breakup forced into his life. There will be a point when he will know who and what he is and will hate him for it....providing he is still around. Cheating relationships don't have a long life expectancy per studies, but of course you two are different...you really are "Soulmates"!!! Did your husband deserve this by not meeting a couple of your "Emotional Needs"??? Does the penalty meet the crime? Did you meet all your husband's emotional needs??? I am busting you chops in hopes that will step back and really she the damage that awaits!!!
Author FromI Posted July 23, 2009 Author Posted July 23, 2009 That is what keeps me now in the marriage.... all the things that Flynn just described.... all this scares me so much... The only person that knows in my family is my mother... she actually said that if I leave, she will not understand and no one will or want to understand (and I see why).. I will not be able to go home for at least a few years, that my parents will not be able to come to me, etc, etc. Of course I want to think "we are different, our situation is different", doesn't everyone think that when they love someone? But as you said, studies prove otherwise... and there isn't anything that makes my relationship with OM part of the 3%-5% that survive. The guilt, the blame, the ruined lives, the lost friendship, lost respect, the pain, all this will be part of my day to day life... that will eventually ruin it and that will be the payback that I deserve...
Chrome Barracuda Posted July 23, 2009 Posted July 23, 2009 That is what keeps me now in the marriage.... all the things that Flynn just described.... all this scares me so much... The only person that knows in my family is my mother... she actually said that if I leave, she will not understand and no one will or want to understand (and I see why).. I will not be able to go home for at least a few years, that my parents will not be able to come to me, etc, etc. Of course I want to think "we are different, our situation is different", doesn't everyone think that when they love someone? But as you said, studies prove otherwise... and there isn't anything that makes my relationship with OM part of the 3%-5% that survive. The guilt, the blame, the ruined lives, the lost friendship, lost respect, the pain, all this will be part of my day to day life... that will eventually ruin it and that will be the payback that I deserve... WTF??? What are you talking about lady, you sound like your still thinking you and the OM can be together without any problems! you need to get off your ass and make a decision! You know what the consequences are. either you stay and make it work and OM goes away forever or you jump into a tainted relationship with the OM. but remember if you do so your the one gonna destroy your family and your kids future. Why are you being selfish about things. make a decision. You can rebuild with your husband but if he's anything like me he aint gonna tolerate your crap for long!
eyeswide Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 That is what keeps me now in the marriage.... all the things that Flynn just described.... all this scares me so much... The only person that knows in my family is my mother... she actually said that if I leave, she will not understand and no one will or want to understand (and I see why).. I will not be able to go home for at least a few years, that my parents will not be able to come to me, etc, etc. Of course I want to think "we are different, our situation is different", doesn't everyone think that when they love someone? But as you said, studies prove otherwise... and there isn't anything that makes my relationship with OM part of the 3%-5% that survive. The guilt, the blame, the ruined lives, the lost friendship, lost respect, the pain, all this will be part of my day to day life... that will eventually ruin it and that will be the payback that I deserve... Chrome B, I respectfully submit that she is starting to get it -- that the part of her brain that's been saying "this is true luv, baby" is finally starting to get talked to by the part of her brain that says "ain't nothing that's worth losing everything..." It takes a long time for that lovey-dovey drug to wear off. It seems like there's part of you, FromI, that knows that some patience may be required to wanting your marriage and husband again, not just thinking that you SHOULD want your marriage and husband again. And you want to know "how long should I wait?" I'm sorry that I don't have an answer to you for the last part, but if both of you aren't really, really committed to digging out from the rubble that has piled up in your marriage not ONLY as a result of your affair but also as a result of the years of just plodding along, then, well, nothing's likely to feel much different.
jnj express Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Hey FromI---lets talk about your OM---what is he---he is someone who would knowingly wreck another family, and probably cause a child to have to live a life of being passed back and forth at best, or in an unhappy home with 2 unhappy parents who probably should not be together. That's what OM is for starters. Does the word slime fit him---I think so. What has been your life with slime----all fantasy ---probably----have you ever had to worry about money with slime, ever had to make sure the bills got paid with slime, ever had to haul the car in for repairs with slime, ever treated your child for sickness with slime, ever made house repairs with slime, ever planned events that involved family and friends, and took some work to make happen with slime----I bet your answer will be NO to all of those statements. You DO NOT KNOW WHAT REALITY IS WITH SLIME!!! Your mge may have no chance because the 2 of you have lost your marital script, but IT IS TIME TO PUT SLIME OUT OF YOUR MIND ONCE AND FOR ALL, and he is still there blocking you from giving your all to your R. ISN'T HE?
Author FromI Posted July 27, 2009 Author Posted July 27, 2009 It's funny how from a few posts you write, people try to understand what you feel, what you know and judge you or say what they could have done if they were in your situation... But no one can really understand what goes on in your head and in your heart and in your life. It is impossible to actually explain everything in a few posts, because it is your life that you live for years you try to explain. Everyone see the things from their own perspective. Those who were WS, understand my feelings and my fears, those who were BS condemn and judge me and the OM. Those whose marriage ended after affair say - end it, those whose recovered - say try harder. I appreciate everyone trying to give me advice, but what I realize is that we are the only ones who can decide for ourselves, because we have all the information about our situation, however everyone else is projecting based on their own experience... I am in a dilema for a long time and I, myself, am the only one who can get me out this, by doing everything possible to try to save my marriage. I just hope that my life is not doomed forever and I can make better decisions in the future.
Dexter Morgan Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 Those who were WS, understand my feelings and my fears, those who were BS condemn and judge me and the OM. well, you cheated on your husband and he slept with a married woman.....and?.......... And here is the kicker.....you are going to hold your husband hostage in this marriage. He is a hostage in the marriage to a woman that doesn't want him and he doesn't know it. what you call condemnation, I call the truth....and when the truth is aparrent, we get the, "how dare you judge me" tripe.
jnj express Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 Hey FromI----you are absolutely right, you make your bed and you sleep in it, we can all give opinions, but only you will decide what to do. Your problem tho, is there are other people who WILL BE AFFECTED BY WHAT YOU DO, especially your children. You only get one try at life on this planet, you don't get to comeback and make amends for your screwups----You need to think it through and do what is best, question is, what is best for you? Is it to be with or w/out a H., but no matter what, the guy who you are cheating with is a bad person, I am not coming from the stand point of any group when I say this, I am just stating a fact. This guy is going to cause, or has already caused the wrecking of the lives of everyone in your family. BUT FOR his appearance in your life, none of this would be happening, this guy, if he were a proper person would have said, in the beginning, you are married and have kids, and what we are doing is going to ruin their lives, did he do that??? No, instead he helped you ruin your families lives. What I am stating now is nothing but pure fact.
bentnotbroken Posted July 27, 2009 Posted July 27, 2009 Well, I'm out. I will just pray your H finds out soon and can make the decision whether he wants to spend the rest of his life with your or find someone who loves and respects him and the boundaries of marriage.
Reggie Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 It's funny how from a few posts you write, people try to understand what you feel, what you know and judge you or say what they could have done if they were in your situation... But no one can really understand what goes on in your head and in your heart and in your life. It is impossible to actually explain everything in a few posts, because it is your life that you live for years you try to explain. Everyone see the things from their own perspective. Those who were WS, understand my feelings and my fears, those who were BS condemn and judge me and the OM. Those whose marriage ended after affair say - end it, those whose recovered - say try harder. I appreciate everyone trying to give me advice, but what I realize is that we are the only ones who can decide for ourselves, because we have all the information about our situation, however everyone else is projecting based on their own experience... I am in a dilema for a long time and I, myself, am the only one who can get me out this, by doing everything possible to try to save my marriage. I just hope that my life is not doomed forever and I can make better decisions in the future. Actually, it is very easy to explain your feelings and the details in written form. And, it is very easy to understand where you are coming from. The fact that people poke holes in the version you have given and do not accept the rationalizations has nothing to do with ease of expression.
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