Author MistyK Posted July 24, 2009 Author Posted July 24, 2009 I thought you said that your intimate/sexual relationship is not public and that she doesn't know about it. IMO you haven't been "public" if she still doesn't know. You allude to her death so often that it's hard not to conclude that you are wishing for it - and that he is too perhaps. Your highly "inappropriate anger" appears to be your own. S Um, so we should be having sex in the middle of the street? I just meant that we went out to dinner in public, etc. I'm not alluding to her death - HE is and YOU ARE. He said he thinks this would be so much easier if she were dead. HE alludes to her health all the time. Why in the world would I wish ill upon her? I refuse to engage in any competition anymore. If anyone is wishing for it, it's him and I could back this up, but continuing to defend this point just isn't worth my time. Of course it's inappropriate, I already said that! As a BS, you have no idea what it's like to listen to hours on end of MM's complaints about his wife. It's easy to get sucked in, especially when you can see the habviors he complains about firsthand. That's all I was saying. I don't really have a gripe with her, other than her stalking me, but I "get" why she's doing that.
whichwayisup Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 you have no idea what it's like to listen to hours on end of MM's complaints about his wife. Why not stand up to him and tell him that you don't want to hear about it anymore? Bottomline is, the way he is and has treated her, he could do to you some day. And you aren't even married to him (yet) or have had kids with him! Don't think that he won't do this to you...He's capable of it, you're seeing it firsthand!
Author MistyK Posted July 24, 2009 Author Posted July 24, 2009 Why not stand up to him and tell him that you don't want to hear about it anymore? Bottomline is, the way he is and has treated her, he could do to you some day. And you aren't even married to him (yet) or have had kids with him! Don't think that he won't do this to you...He's capable of it, you're seeing it firsthand! Oh, I know. He's already starting to transfer some of the things he did to her to me...the things he said to her and the way he acts...it's easy to see where that path leads. As an aside - If it helps put anyof this in perspective, when I say I don't get why she even wants him anymore, it's not just that he told her he doesn't love her and that he loves me, not just the affair and the obviousness of the PA, - he has SCREAMED at her that he "hates her with every fiber of his being", numerous times. He gives her a laundry list of reasons why he's more compatible with me than her, why he finds me attractive (things I do and she doesn't, like housework, cooking, etc). I've put up with a lot of crap from him, but that even I wouldn't take. And in case you're wondering, yes I see the writing on the wall loud and clear in terms of what i can expect his treatment of me to be later if I stayed engaged. I get that.
whichwayisup Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Oh, I know. He's already starting to transfer some of the things he did to her to me...the things he said to her and the way he acts...it's easy to see where that path leads. So you DO see the dynamic that's building between you two...Almost the same dynamic as him and his wife. This is why NC is important when a CS is planning on leaving their spouse. He has to have time alone without being in some form of a relationship, otherwise he is bringing in unhealthy emotions into your relationship..Make sense? Need to ask, why do you want him? What is it that you love about him - Even though you can 'see' what's going on? He isn't going to change his ways because he knows you're 'waiting' for him..
Author MistyK Posted July 24, 2009 Author Posted July 24, 2009 Forgive my stupidity, but what does CS mean? I do see the wisdom in letting him be alone. I thought we could do it together, but it's been 4 months since he moved out and with the D looming very closely, he's acting funky and indecisive and all that and it made me wildly insecure. Now that he moved out, it made it feel like I had even more to lose. Anyway, it's clear that I can't ride the rollercoaster with him. I'll just end up barfing. As to why I want him....on any given day my answer may be different. On some level I know he's trying to change - he's in therapy, etc. The jury is out on his ABILITY to change, but the prognosis is admittedly bad. We connect on a deep level, intellectually, emotionally, and physically and deep inside is a good heart. He's been hurt a lot and I understand how his childhood affected him. I guess I have hope that he can change it...that he can be the man he is when things are good, not the man I've seen at his lowest point who sacrficices everyone to hold onto the status quo.
Mino Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Actually my xmm has said that before too, twice! He said he wished his w would have an accident and die, so he could have his child full time and be with me. I was surprised the first time he said this, kinda of scared me the second time. He was crying when he said it both times, saying also he knew this was wrong and twisted, but he couldnt help thinking it. I think they are just so torn and its a solution for them in the moment, in their mind. It also points out what selfish way of their thinking is all about. But I know its not really what they wish for. its their child ego speaking.
Author MistyK Posted July 24, 2009 Author Posted July 24, 2009 Actually my xmm has said that before too, twice! He said he wished his w would have an accident and die, so he could have his child full time and be with me. I was surprised the first time he said this, kinda of scared me the second time. He was crying when he said it both times, saying also he knew this was wrong and twisted, but he couldnt help thinking it. I think they are just so torn and its a solution for them in the moment, in their mind. It also points out what selfish way of their thinking is all about. But I know its not really what they wish for. its their child ego speaking. Yeah it's the same magical thinking that allows him to think that if he moves back until the kids are older, they'll "forget" about this whole episode and be instantly ok again. Now I am sure I've apologized for rushing him more than he has for jerking me (or for that matter his W) around. Something seems wrong with that equation. I told him again that I think he's being terribly cruel and selfish stringing along his W when he doesn't want to be with her (or truly invested in the M) and apparently "hates her with every fiber of his being", and for abandoning the kids instead of exercising his visitation. All supposedly in the name of "cushioning" the blow for both himself and his W. He's using her as a security blanket because he's terrified of intimacy with either of us. She'll accept a M without intimacy (she has for a long time apparently), and I won't.
NoIDidn't Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Misty, I think your MM and Mino's MM have a lot in common. If you go back and read Mino's posting history, you might see yourself in her and your MM in her MM. I think both men want divorces but not because their is something wrong with their wives. The problem is them and their mental and emotional deficiencies. If they aren't willing to actually change for the better for ALL of their relationships (and most importantly, for themselves), your relationship with them will turn into exactly what they had with their wives. And I get the feeling that neither of you would accept that if you knew that's what it would turn into. Its great that you guys aren't the wives of these guys (the way they compare you to their W), but the problem was never their wives, but them and their limited view of the way things should work (selfishness and ignoring that the woman has feelings too).
Mino Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Misty, I think your MM and Mino's MM have a lot in common. If you go back and read Mino's posting history, you might see yourself in her and your MM in her MM. I think both men want divorces but not because their is something wrong with their wives. The problem is them and their mental and emotional deficiencies. If they aren't willing to actually change for the better for ALL of their relationships (and most importantly, for themselves), your relationship with them will turn into exactly what they had with their wives. And I get the feeling that neither of you would accept that if you knew that's what it would turn into. Its great that you guys aren't the wives of these guys (the way they compare you to their W), but the problem was never their wives, but them and their limited view of the way things should work (selfishness and ignoring that the woman has feelings too).Oh I agree NID, I see many similarities. I know for the last year, that is was NOT my mm w. I hear she is a nice person, even mm says that. After spending almost a year living with him, I know now why she is the way she is. She always turned the other way, never confronted, never. I always wondered why she was so cold, especially after I talked to her a couple of years ago. No, I blame it ALL on him. He is broken, he is ill. He never got help all these years for his illness. He didnt do anything, but run from it. I did the research, found the doctors. I bet had he done this 20 years ago, he might have had it under control, but I know his M suffered greatly because of it. THe problem is also it gets worse as they age. Misty, has your guy ever been evaluated for any kind of mental illness? Do you see him doing any other " strange things", Lining things up? Counting, repeating task over and over, checking, washing hands excessively? any wierd rituals? The list goes on and on,,,,
Author MistyK Posted July 24, 2009 Author Posted July 24, 2009 Oh I agree NID, I see many similarities. I know for the last year, that is was NOT my mm w. I hear she is a nice person, even mm says that. After spending almost a year living with him, I know now why she is the way she is. She always turned the other way, never confronted, never. I always wondered why she was so cold, especially after I talked to her a couple of years ago. No, I blame it ALL on him. He is broken, he is ill. He never got help all these years for his illness. He didnt do anything, but run from it. I did the research, found the doctors. I bet had he done this 20 years ago, he might have had it under control, but I know his M suffered greatly because of it. THe problem is also it gets worse as they age. Misty, has your guy ever been evaluated for any kind of mental illness? Do you see him doing any other " strange things", Lining things up? Counting, repeating task over and over, checking, washing hands excessively? any wierd rituals? The list goes on and on,,,, It is clearly a parallel universe, but my MM's thing is anxiety. He had agorophobia for years. He has constant screaming night terrors and severe psychosomatic digestive issues. You get the idea. I don't blame MM entirely, just mostly. His W clearly wanted a prince charming to "save" her - not a partner - and that's a role he enjoyed playing. It gets old though after a while, especially when you have real children and still have to take care of an adult child. It takes 2 people to screw up a M. Obviously that doesn't justify the A, just saying they both contributed to the breakdown.
fooled once Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Oh, I know. He's already starting to transfer some of the things he did to her to me...the things he said to her and the way he acts...it's easy to see where that path leads. As an aside - If it helps put anyof this in perspective, when I say I don't get why she even wants him anymore, it's not just that he told her he doesn't love her and that he loves me, not just the affair and the obviousness of the PA, - he has SCREAMED at her that he "hates her with every fiber of his being", numerous times. He gives her a laundry list of reasons why he's more compatible with me than her, why he finds me attractive (things I do and she doesn't, like housework, cooking, etc). I've put up with a lot of crap from him, but that even I wouldn't take. And in case you're wondering, yes I see the writing on the wall loud and clear in terms of what i can expect his treatment of me to be later if I stayed engaged. I get that. oh Misty, I am so sad for you. I cannot for the life of me understand why you are continuing to hang in there; continuing to put up with all this. Why why why? I can see why SHE puts up with him, to a degree. SHE married him, SHE made a life with him, SHE bore his kids, SHE has a history with him, SHE knows him inside and out. YOU aren't married to him, YOU haven't made a life with him. YOU didn't have his kids. YOU don't have a history with him. YOU don't know him inside and out. YOU aren't legally tied to to him in anyway ~ except emotionally. ]I do see the wisdom in letting him be alone. I thought we could do it together,[/b] but it's been 4 months since he moved out and with the D looming very closely, he's acting funky and indecisive and all that and it made me wildly insecure. Now that he moved out, it made it feel like I had even more to lose. Anyway, it's clear that I can't ride the rollercoaster with him. I'll just end up barfing. How can you together let him be alone?? I don't believe "D" day is looming very closely. He keeps changing "D" day. He keeps dragging his feet. He doesn't really want "D" day to happen. God, I wish you could get off this rollercoaster. I wish you would stop talking to him. Stop being his pal who he can vent to. Stop letting him talk to you about HIS WIFE and HIS MARRIAGE. STOP TALKING TO HIM - please Misty. [she'll accept a M without intimacy (she has for a long time apparently), and I won't. /QUOTE] But you will accept intimacy without a relationship. You will accept him stringing you along. You will accept the broken promises. You will accept crappy treatment. You will accept lies. You will accept crumbs. He's using her as a security blanket t's been 4 months since he moved out and with the D looming very closely, he's acting funky and indecisive and all that and it made me wildly insecure. Now that he moved out, it made it feel like I had even more to lose. See, I see you as hanging onto HIM because you are insecure about being on your own, about being alone, about 'losing' him ~ and you are willing to allow all this. You are choosing to keep yourself involved in all of it. You are choosing to hang onto him at whatever cost, it seems, to your mental health. Let him go. Let him figure it all out on HIS own. I understand loving someone, wanting to be with them ~ but honey, he can't even DECIDE if he wants you. And there you are - always there to cook for him, to clean up after him, to listen to him bitch and moan about his 'horrible' wife, to have sex with him ----- and seriously, what are YOU getting out of all this??
fooled once Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 I don't blame MM entirely, just mostly. His W clearly wanted a prince charming to "save" her - not a partner - and that's a role he enjoyed playing. It gets old though after a while, especially when you have real children and still have to take care of an adult child. It takes 2 people to screw up a M. Obviously that doesn't justify the A, just saying they both contributed to the breakdown. Why are you blaming him or her for their actions in their marriage? And who is the adult child? Him? Yes, you are correct, you should NOT be taking care of him. You should have an involved, loving, single partner to be with. You have children to raise. You need to be focused on them; not on his marriage. <hug>
jj33 Posted July 24, 2009 Posted July 24, 2009 Misty - its good that you are posting and getting all your thoughts out and processing it all. Just so long as you "step away from the car" - nothing for you to see there.
Ariadne Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 I think the next excuse for the enmeshment would be the one I hear from his holier-than-thou cleric cousin: His W has diabetes, she could DIE. Just the upset alone throw her sugars off. Or maybe it's the donuts she's always sucking down. But that's MM's fault too. Hey, good luck with this guy. Seems like all the BS are saying, leave him alone, go NC! Now! I mean, the guy is living alone now... Not sure if the method of GEL is good for everybody. It might have worked for her but you can lose him big time. I don't think true love is about being a bully, but about being supportive. I've been there btw with a MM, I did was GEL said and I never heard from him again. (But I was ready to leave then, I wished for a while that he'll come of course, but I knew that was far fetched)
fooled once Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 I am not a BS and I am saying leave him. He isn't GOOD for Misty. He is hurting her all the time. She DESERVES better. And I fear that he is going to do to her what he is doing to his wife. She shouldn't be playing the role of wife without getting to be the wife (as in cleaning his place, doing his laundry, listening to him complain, etc). Some people just don't change -- no matter how much counseling he gets -- this could just be WHO he is and the man he was before was just acting on his part to woo her.
Ariadne Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 I am not a BS and I am saying leave him. He isn't GOOD for Misty. He is hurting her all the time. She DESERVES better. Yeah, but she will do that when she is ready and if she feels in her heart that there is no chance.
SidLyon Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 Deleted by Sid as most of the discussion this relates to has been removed by the moderator.
Author MistyK Posted July 25, 2009 Author Posted July 25, 2009 Misty - its good that you are posting and getting all your thoughts out and processing it all. Just so long as you "step away from the car" - nothing for you to see there. So far so good.
jj33 Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 Good keep it up. And keep posting. Yes people will jump on your thought processes but its NORMAL to think about it as you are so recently out of it. Its much better to post than to be tempted to contact him.
GreenEyedLady Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 Not sure if the method of GEL is good for everybody. It might have worked for her but you can lose him big time. I don't think true love is about being a bully, but about being supportive. You are right, it is not for the faint of heart. It is for someone who decides that it is THEIR happiness that is important. That they aren't going to settle for being less than number 1. It is the beginning of ending the hurt. It is showing him that you are the prize, not the MM. It equalizes the power in the relationship. It shows the MM he doesn't call the shots and that the OW has just as many choices as he does. Well actually, she has more. He just goes home. She can go anywhere. It also shows the OW how he really feels about her. If he dumps the OW, he just left sooner rather than later. So she can stop wasting her time. True love is about being supportive, it's not about being a doormat. It's about having a true PARTNER, sharing decisions, sharing your lives. It's not one-sided. True love doesn't hurt their partner repeatedly. True love doesn't hide. True love doesn't go home to another family after saying goodbye to you. True love is seen through actions. You don't have to hear it, you don't have to question it, you know. If you don't see it, it's not true love. GEL
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