MistyK Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Around here, we talk a lot about MM's needing to make a choice. Undoubtedly part of the reason MM so often drag out or do not make any choice at all is because doing so brings with it some sort of loss (loss of marriage and family, social status, etc or loss of passion, love, etc with OW). Let's assume we're talking about MM for whom a fulfilling M is not possible, but finds joy in being a part of the family unit and constantly with the children - someone who is not into multiple NSA sex affairs, but just trying to piece together what's missing in life from different people. My MM used to say that to end the M or end the R with me would be like cutting of one of his legs - he can't walk without either one. He often says that he has come to the conclusion that he can't be happy (unless he no longer has obligation to his W - she'd have to be dead) because he doesn't want to have to share his kids to be with me and yet knows he will "miss/pine for me for the rest of his life" if he returns to her. Arguably, the premise is flawed - he seems to look at it with an all-or-none view, but it is what he believes, and from what I see around here, he isn't the only MM with this viewpoint. So what I'm getting at is, what if it's a Sophie's Choice? I must say it's hurtful to feel like someone is partially absent in a relationship - would it be fair for him to go home to his W when he is still in love with me, knowing he will never feel about her as he does about me? And likewise, were he to stay with me I know that he will constantly miss having the family in tact...either way he's a shell of a man for either of us. His therapist believes he's better off out of the M, but he seems convinced that he can only be truly happy with both. It makes me feel (stupidly) guilty for forcing a choice on him and sometimes I wonder if there's even a point if he's miserable in the end anyway (or at the very least, always feeling like something crucial is missing). Is there anyone here - WS's like this, who after having made a choice one way or the other still feel empty? Or were you able to find a happiness you didn't think you could have back when you were mired in indecision? I never really considered having both as an option when I was in the EA and still M. Hence my speedy action. Wasn't even on my radar. So I don't really "get" this....
2sure Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Misty - Decisions are hard. Life is unfair. Choices are difficult and sometimes heartbreaking to make yet they must be made. Thats life. Thats what it is. If MM makes a decision one way or the other he loses something , loses someone. If he makes no decision , the loss , the cost - falls to others. His wife, his family, you. Do you see this?
fooled once Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 I agree with 2sure. I also think that you are listening to a cake eater and his views. You are naturally assuming that he has a 'bad' marriage. Think about it. Life is all about making choices - having children, getting married, going to college, etc. Each of us individually MUST make the RIGHT choice for OURSELVES. Yes, be selfish. Because it is OUR life and we must live it for OURSELVES. I think if you (general you) have to make an ultimateum for someone to "pick" who he wants to be with; and no action is taken, then THAT is your answer. Look at yourself. You weren't having a good marriage. You ended it. Sure, it probably had a lot to do with the EA you were having; but YOU made a choice. I made a CHOICE when I divorced my exhusband. I don't regret it for ONE second. Yes, people hurt and grieve, but most people DO go on and love again.
Montclair0011 Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Mysty, I think you have summed up a common predicament well. They feel they are caught between a rock and a hard place and view the situation in black and white. I guess some of them manage to hang there for a very long time, although it can't be easy for them or everyone else involved. From my experience, it seems having a therapist can make a big difference. The therapist can help them see how damaging the situation is and guide them to figure things out and make critical decisions. The MM I was involved with saw one for a short time and she got him to make big changes. However, he had not seen her long enough to have a solid relationship. She scared him and he freaked out and suddenly stopped seeing her and ran back to his family. It sounds like yours has been seeing his therapist for a while and probably has a more trusting relationship. If so, he is more likely to eventually be able to make a successful change.
jj33 Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Misty I know xMM felt and still feels he made a Sophies Choice and that he is still empty but that was the choice he made. The thing is, you made the choice you had to make for you. There is no reason for you to be a martyr to his choice. if you want more than what a particular A has to offer, then staying there because you "understand" his choice means you are selling yourself short. You wouldnt do that with a single man. Its normal to feel this way as you are moving away from the A. Your feelings may fluctuate back and forth over the coming months. Anger, despair, hurt, questioning your decision, relief. Its part of the process of trying to make sense of something that often makes no sense at all.
herenow Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 So many things in this post, where to start... First, I have to say how sad that the BW isn't part of the decision. If she knew how her H felt and what he was doing, he may not have to make a choice. If she does know, then they have made a choice together and, again, he doesn't have to choose since both you and his W seems to be going along with the MM time share. Then there is always the fact that you only know what he is telling you . Unless you have somehow heard conversations between the MM and his wife or spoken to the wife for verification, then you are getting your info from a man who has no problem lying. He may even be lying to his therapist. Then how about the millions of couples that decided they will be happier apart? They seem to be able to walk just fine. Divorce no longer has a stigma. Most children have friends who have divorced parents. If the parents care about their kids, they do the best to make sure their kids are happy even if they get divorced. If this MM is spending time with you, he is already splitting his time between you and his family. If he got a divorce, he would be a honest man doing what was best for both him and his wife. Continuing an affair behind his BW's back just makes him a dishonest selfish husband. How is that good for the "family"? IMO, if a MM is willing to cheat on his wife and family, he will do what he wants. By having an affair in the first place he is already showing you that his desires come before anyone, so why do you think he is such a martyr? If he really wanted to be with you, he would. He isn't getting half of anything. He is getting everything of both. When he says he will lose a leg if he leaves one of you, I don't think he is referring to the legs he uses to walk on.
GreenEyedLady Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 It makes me feel (stupidly) guilty for forcing a choice on him and sometimes I wonder if there's even a point if he's miserable in the end anyway (or at the very least, always feeling like something crucial is missing). Misty, That's why YOU make the choice. It's fine if you decide you are ok with the status quo. If you are not, then YOU make the choice to find what you are missing. You can make the choice that you will not stay with him as long as he is married to someone else and acting like a big baby. That's what he's being. He is hoping for your understanding a while longer to buy his time. You don't have to play his game. Take yourself out as one of the pawns he's using to get what he wants. Now if you want to stay with him, you have to accept the situation as it is. Go out, live your life and then dump him when you find someone else. Whatever you decide, embrace it. Or you will never be happy most of the time. I'm sorry that you're second guessing yourself, but this is what MM do (mine even did this: I told him boo-frickety hoo). You feel bad because it's not what you want and you don't want to continue the way you were. This is a time for you to grow. And he could realize you're what he wants. But the pulling the kid card is the oldest trick in the book. If he was really that concerned about his family, he wouldn't be out cheating on their mother, would he? GEL
Mr. Lucky Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 His therapist believes he's better off out of the M, but he seems convinced that he can only be truly happy with both. And keeping access to both women is what he's hoping to sustain. Parting with one doesn't represent a net loss but rather the give-back of a gain. Doesn't that strike you as a clear case of selfish self-entitlement? But the pulling the kid card is the oldest trick in the book. If he was really that concerned about his family, he wouldn't be out cheating on their mother, would he? Well said... Mr. Lucky
Author MistyK Posted July 20, 2009 Author Posted July 20, 2009 If she does know, then they have made a choice together and, again, he doesn't have to choose since both you and his W seems to be going along with the MM time share. She has known for over a year (arguably longer, but that's when he finally got caught beyond doubt in an EA, she still refuses to believe PA, and he has vowed to never tell her the truth on that to "spare" her feelings.) She is unhappy, but yes, she will happily hang on forever. I believe it's pretty much a war of attrition - she has more to lose and knows she will hang on longer than me. She also believes that he will magically fall in love with her and feel as he does for me if I die tomorrow. She has said so. She acknowledges he does not love her and he has been very explicit with her about his feelings for me. Then there is always the fact that you only know what he is telling you . Unless you have somehow heard conversations between the MM and his wife or spoken to the wife for verification, then you are getting your info from a man who has no problem lying. He may even be lying to his therapist. Unfortunately, I've had the oppurtunity for both, so it's verified. Then how about the millions of couples that decided they will be happier apart? They seem to be able to walk just fine. Divorce no longer has a stigma. Most children have friends who have divorced parents. If the parents care about their kids, they do the best to make sure their kids are happy even if they get divorced. If this MM is spending time with you, he is already splitting his time between you and his family. If he got a divorce, he would be a honest man doing what was best for both him and his wife. Continuing an affair behind his BW's back just makes him a dishonest selfish husband. How is that good for the "family"? No need to convince me. I divorced and my kids and I survived it just fine. I actually hoped that MM seeing that would show him it was possible. But, being the narcissist he is, his situation is always somehow "different". IMO, if a MM is willing to cheat on his wife and family, he will do what he wants. By having an affair in the first place he is already showing you that his desires come before anyone, so why do you think he is such a martyr? If he really wanted to be with you, he would. He isn't getting half of anything. He is getting everything of both. Well, technically he did choose me. He moved out. What I sturggle with is the half-assed way he's dealt with cutting ties as H and W. It's like he moves forward and takes a step right back everytime as if to make it better. When he says he will lose a leg if he leaves one of you, I don't think he is referring to the legs he uses to walk on. Perhaps not, that is clearly a part of his body he cherishes.
fooled once Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 He didn't choose you Misty. He isn't with you. He isn't out showing you off. You really don't know that he told his wife he loves you mostest -- unless you were right there in the room with them both. He are hearing only HIS version. And why shouldn't she hang on? He has really made no REAL moves to end the marriage. Maybe she believes it is salvageable? Maybe she thinks in time he will come ALL the way back home? He has really NOT taken complete ACTION to show her anything besides "he doesn't know". So yes, she may wait you out; but why is that such a bad thing? She is the one with a history with him. She has KIDS with him. She is the one who MARRIED him. And he isn't with you because he CHOOSES not to be with you <hug> He is still weighing his options and honestly hun, RUN very fast in the opposite direction. If he REALLY REALLY loved you, there isn't a choice to be made. He is totally playing you and I wish you could see that
jj33 Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 I dont think its that clear that he is intentionally "playing" with Misty. Selfish? Yes. But its his life on the line. Everyone does what is best for them in these situations. He isnt sure or whatever his position is. So he is doing what he is doing. That doesnt make it good for Misty but it does not mean he is "playing with her". I dont think its always as cut and dried for people to leave a marriage and people stay for lots of reasons other than love. Im not saying Misty should hang on, but I dont think its so clear that he loves his wife so much more than her. We will never know what he thinks or what his reaons are for staying in his marriage or what his wife's motivations are for staying. Misty this is the hard part but you need to focus on the fact that for WHATEVER REASON he is not with you now and that leaves you no choice but to move on. It doesnt matter whether he loves you more than Romeo loved Juliet, more than any man has ever loved any woman. The fact is he isnt available.
GreenEyedLady Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 He didn't choose you Misty. He isn't with you. He isn't out showing you off. And why shouldn't she hang on? He has really made no REAL moves to end the marriage. Maybe she believes it is salvageable? Maybe she thinks in time he will come ALL the way back home? He has really NOT taken complete ACTION to show her anything besides "he doesn't know". So yes, she may wait you out; but why is that such a bad thing? She is the one with a history with him. She has KIDS with him. She is the one who MARRIED him. And he isn't with you because he CHOOSES not to be with you <hug> He is still weighing his options and honestly hun, RUN very fast in the opposite direction. If he REALLY REALLY loved you, there isn't a choice to be made. He is totally playing you and I wish you could see that Misty, I know these are very hard things to hear. I remember being here and hearing these things and I didn't even post much about my own personal drama. But this can empower you, hun. This can help you take the steps to your true YOU. I was never as strong or as sure in my life until I came here, until I examined my life and I made decisions to get what I wanted out of life. It's all trial and error, observation and analyzing. I have learned so much being here and it's all the same story over and over. The differences happen when the OW takes the initiative, raises her expectations, decides she is the prize. That's when the outcome is different. The best outcome being that the partners very much want to be together and work together to that end. You see from what I've learned about MM, when they truly love you, they don't care about anything else. They give up the status, they take the every other weekend and wednesday nights, they pay the child support and they don't go running back to the W when she beck and calls. The ones who go running at the beck and call, they are not over her, for whatever reason. I'm not saying it's right, I'm not saying it's love. It simply is. And the W's who usually use that tactic won't let him go without a fight. It's their livelihood usually, it's their picket fence dream and it's their championship title. So it's like Rocky Balboa and Appolo. You can't compete with that, so don't try. You have to be you. And you need to get in the game and stop letting him call all the shots. Because the number 1 thing about MM is that they don't want to be left. They don't want to face the fact that something is wrong IN them. That their problems are because of THEM. They want to pretend they're perfect and they're entitled and they are GOD'S GIFT to women and they want to share the wealth. A man who loves you will stop AT NOTHING to make you his. (Not talking stalker here.) He will give up EVERYTHING to be with you. I kid you not. He will not whine, he will not blame you for his problems and he will not brood that his world is coming to an end because of you. The MM that do this are not ready to leave, they just want the best of both worlds and are pissed that you are forcing them to choose. They are the Alpha and the Omega, right? Who are you, to decide that they should be monogamous (sarcasm guys). So if you still want this guy, you need to adjust your game plan, you need to pull your big girl pants on and get in this game. Because people are bulls******* if they're telling you this isn't a game and you're believing it. This is a very high stakes game and if you're not up for it, get out now. Your MM has his game, the BS in this case has hers (and is using it very effectively I must say). You need to stop being so understanding. You need to start demanding what you need and most of all YOU NEED TO STOP ANSWERING HIS CALLS RIGHT AWAY. Have a life of your own, be unavailable some of the time. Let his calls go to voicemail and call him back when you get around to it. Show him you have other options and if he's too slow, he'll be too late. If he really loves you, HE'LL START ACTING LIKE A MAN. Because it's not cool to cheat on your W. It's stupid to risk your entire life for a fling and your spouse's health. And you should tell him that! When I was fed up with my MM, I told him neither of us deserved his s***: I wanted someone who was with only me and I'm sure she wanted a faithful H and why was he the only one getting what he wanted?! And he was even GOOD to me and didn't treat me like a mistress... From what I have observed and experienced in life, people treat us the way we let them. So don't blame him for the way he's treating you: you're letting him treat you that way. I hope you take this in the spirit it's meant, I really do. There's hope, but only if you demand to be treated well and he's truly changed. If he isn't changed, you don't want him anyway. He'll just cheat on you too. GEL
Confused4Now Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 I'm telling you when she posts I listen....for me it goes the other way. I am the man and I did what I said I was going to do. As hard as it was I GOT OUT. With my MW she was fighting religion, family and a abusive H. Even though she's addressed each one family, religion....the last piece is H and she's getting that too. Gel is right on when it comes to a MAN...for me I knew I was in love with her and she was most definitely an upgrade to what I had. So it took me finally saying enough is enough she was to comfortable in having him come back and me on the side. That's when I stepped out. I will not allow her to treat me that way ever again.....GEL is the best!!! Now only if I can find a woman like her!!!
jj33 Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 So if you still want this guy, you need to adjust your game plan, you need to pull your big girl pants on and get in this game. Because people are bulls******* if they're telling you this isn't a game and you're believing it. This is a very high stakes game and if you're not up for it, get out now. Your MM has his game, the BS in this case has hers (and is using it very effectively I must say). You need to stop being so understanding. You need to start demanding what you need and most of all YOU NEED TO STOP ANSWERING HIS CALLS RIGHT AWAY. Have a life of your own, be unavailable some of the time. Let his calls go to voicemail and call him back when you get around to it. Show him you have other options and if he's too slow, he'll be too late. GEL GEL I wasnt saying she should "understand" or continue to let him do his little dance while she stands by. I agree that "it" is a game insofar as people treat you the way you let them. If you dont want to be an option then dont act like one. However I dont think that the MM is necessarily "playing her" because he is dithering. She shouldnt stand for it but I do agree with her about him having a Sophie's Choice. That doesnt change the fact that your advice is spot on. Its just a different way of looking at his feelings. He has a choice he made it or is trying hard not to. F that. Misty has to stand her ground if she wants any hope of a solid relationship with him. But to me it still doesnt mean he is consciously playing her. You can understand and still say ciao - see ya, I'm getting on with my life. I think the important issue is what helps Misty move on and do what you suggest. Is it easier for Misty to follow your advice thinking she is "being played" or easier for her to follow your advice thinking he has a Sophies Choice and he made it so ?? Same course of action either way.
1on Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 You see from what I've learned about MM, when they truly love you, they don't care about anything else. They give up the status, they take the every other weekend and wednesday nights, they pay the child support and they don't go running back to the W when she beck and calls. The ones who go running at the beck and call, they are not over her, for whatever reason. I'm not saying it's right, I'm not saying it's love. It simply is. And the W's who usually use that tactic won't let him go without a fight. It's their livelihood usually, it's their picket fence dream and it's their championship title. So it's like Rocky Balboa and Appolo. You can't compete with that, so don't try. You have to be you. And you need to get in the game and stop letting him call all the shots. GEL u are so true, my MM always running back to the W when she call, n when i call him while he is with his W, he just cut off or reject my call without even listen to any single words come out from my mouth. so if i got problem, i cant count on his help, cause he will never be there for me. saddly, but i still cant get rid him in my mind.
Author MistyK Posted July 21, 2009 Author Posted July 21, 2009 He didn't choose you Misty. He isn't with you. He isn't out showing you off. We've gone out to dinner locally and been out together, but it's not often, and truly I agree that to overdo it this early in the seperation is rubbing his W's nose in it. You really don't know that he told his wife he loves you mostest -- unless you were right there in the room with them both. He are hearing only HIS version. Actually I do. I saw his email to her and her response back to it. Now - did he take it back 2 days later? Who knows? And why shouldn't she hang on? He has really made no REAL moves to end the marriage. Maybe she believes it is salvageable? Maybe she thinks in time he will come ALL the way back home? He has really NOT taken complete ACTION to show her anything besides "he doesn't know". I agree to the extent that he's sent her mixed signals. Personally I wouldn't hang on if someone told me uneqivocally that they were not in love with me and in love with someone else. She does believe it is salvageable; she believes if he were able to maintain NC with me that he'd feel about her as he does about me. He said he can't imagine going home to her because of how she is and that he doesn't think he could ever muster those emotions for her. You are correct that he's done nothing irreversible and isn't exactly speeding the D along. But at least he finally moved his other car and seperated their finances. So yes, she may wait you out; but why is that such a bad thing? She is the one with a history with him. She has KIDS with him. She is the one who MARRIED him. I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I just think that after all he's done to her and the fact that he swears to me that he will NEVER tell her the truth of the PA, she's wasting her life. And, I'm more than a little sick of her stalking-type behaviors, which will keep up until they are emotionally divorced and she moves on. If he moves back, she will continue to stalk me for many years to come - I'm so closeby their house and she'll be constantly looking for some sign of contact between us. And he isn't with you because he CHOOSES not to be with you <hug> He is still weighing his options and honestly hun, RUN very fast in the opposite direction. If he REALLY REALLY loved you, there isn't a choice to be made. You're right, but does moving out mean NOTHING, then?
jj33 Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 I think moving out does mean something it means a lot. The fact that he isnt clear on what he wants means YOU need to move on as per GELs advice but I think the fact that he moved out means something. However its not the end of the story. I dont buy this business that if someone really loves you they will have no issues and will clearly choose you 100%. I agree that until he does you dont give him the time of day (per GELs advice) but I dont agree that someone should be expected to put their old life behind them without a second thought. That is not realistic. The hard thing Misty is to balance that. To accept that yes he does love you and yes he is conflicted but THAT IS HIS PROBLEM NOT YOURS. It doesnt make him an azz. It doesnt make him a bad person, its just part of the process he is going through. But its HIS process not yours. You need to step away TOTALLY and move on or at least let him think you are moving on until such time as you actually do (fake it til you make it). Unless one day he comes round and says he has made up his mind and he wants you - and you are still single and want him, he needs to be history. The thing with his W checking on you is annoying but it comes with the territory. You might do the same thing if you were in her shoes. And guess what, if he is still married to her, and isnt 1000% sure he wants to be with you, you dont want contact with him so she will be looking for something that really doesnt exist.
confusedinkansas Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 WOW! GEL..Your post is right on the money!! I wish 4 - some odd years ago someone would have said all of this to me. I personally know of a handful of men that are very much like your MM Misty.....They 'CLAIM' their lives at home are less than what they "signed up for" or that their wives don't understand them yadda yadda yadda...BUTTTT.....LEAVE:eek:....No Way! Never. The "family unit" & "what people will think of them" are the most important thing. These types of men just bounce from woman to woman - some find one & stick with her for a while, as long as she's ok with status-quo. Since you are kind of allowing him to have it both ways...well....if you can't be a peace with it, you should probably move on.
Author MistyK Posted July 21, 2009 Author Posted July 21, 2009 I have learned so much being here and it's all the same story over and over. The differences happen when the OW takes the initiative, raises her expectations, decides she is the prize. I've noticed that too. It's a leap of faith to let it go when you hope it'll come back, and it scares me. Because the number 1 thing about MM is that they don't want to be left. They don't want to face the fact that something is wrong IN them. That their problems are because of THEM. They want to pretend they're perfect and they're entitled and they are GOD'S GIFT to women and they want to share the wealth. Yeah, sometimes I see that he's actually way more insecure than me. A man who loves you will stop AT NOTHING to make you his. (Not talking stalker here.) He will give up EVERYTHING to be with you. I kid you not. He will not whine, he will not blame you for his problems and he will not brood that his world is coming to an end because of you. The MM that do this are not ready to leave, they just want the best of both worlds and are pissed that you are forcing them to choose. They are the Alpha and the Omega, right? Who are you, to decide that they should be monogamous (sarcasm guys). He doesn't blame me, deep down, but I am sure he's annoyed that he's forced to make a choice. Who wants to choose something that's in any way unpleasant no matter what you choose? He is clinging to not making a choice. And I've noticed a pattern in him. As I move away from him, he starts getting it in gear, reports it back, and then if I don't come running because I wanted to see more, he threatens abandonment (not literally of course). So if you still want this guy, you need to adjust your game plan, you need to pull your big girl pants on and get in this game. Because people are bulls******* if they're telling you this isn't a game and you're believing it. This is a very high stakes game and if you're not up for it, get out now. Your MM has his game, the BS in this case has hers (and is using it very effectively I must say). She spent a mint on books like After the Affair and so yes, I'm sure she's been trained quite well. She'd probably be more effective though if she could manage to stop riding and deriding him, especially to the kids, but that's her. You need to stop being so understanding. You need to start demanding what you need and most of all YOU NEED TO STOP ANSWERING HIS CALLS RIGHT AWAY. Have a life of your own, be unavailable some of the time. Let his calls go to voicemail and call him back when you get around to it. Show him you have other options and if he's too slow, he'll be too late. I can do that. When I was fed up with my MM, I told him neither of us deserved his s***: I wanted someone who was with only me and I'm sure she wanted a faithful H and why was he the only one getting what he wanted?! And he was even GOOD to me and didn't treat me like a mistress... I've told him that too on a number of occasions and there have been times I've pointed out his cruelty to her to him. He's made it clear that if he goes back, it's only for a few years until the kids get older (because he thinks this matters somehow). I told him that's the most selfish a**hole thing I've ever heard. That he would waste another 7 years of her life and dump her when she is in her 50's. For what it's worth, he took it to heart, and I think that's part of what holds him back. He knows he can't stand to spend the rest of his life with her. And sad to say, he does consider the idea that her health may catch up with her and he may get lucky before he gets too old. There's hope, but only if you demand to be treated well and he's truly changed. If he isn't changed, you don't want him anyway. He'll just cheat on you too. GEL I agree. The fact that he's been in therapy almost a year now is a good thing, it's just so frustrating that he moves so glacially slow.
Author MistyK Posted July 21, 2009 Author Posted July 21, 2009 I dont buy this business that if someone really loves you they will have no issues and will clearly choose you 100%. I agree that until he does you dont give him the time of day (per GELs advice) but I dont agree that someone should be expected to put their old life behind them without a second thought. That is not realistic. He has to mourn the loss of his M if he follow through with the D. I fully expect that. As much as I wanted my D, I still mourned my M. Unless one day he comes round and says he has made up his mind and he wants you - and you are still single and want him, he needs to be history. The trouble is he says he does want a life with me, BUT he still thinks of going back sometimes because he feels the kids are having a bad reaction to his moving out and he misses them. The kids are reacting badly, which is to be expected, and compounded by his refusal to have a consistent visit schedule and the W's emotionally dragging the kids into the M. I don't think going home solves that, but he thinks that just physically being in the same house even if he is not spending time with the kids will solve everything with a magic wand...well, everything except his disdain for his W, which is why he hasn't gone back to date. The thing with his W checking on you is annoying but it comes with the territory. You might do the same thing if you were in her shoes. Agreed to a certain extent, but I know it will get worse for me if he goes back to her because she'll never trust him again (rightfully so). Even his therapist agrees with me that he'd have another A because they M can't be fixed. (I have gone in on several joint sessions with MM so i hear this from the therapist directly. Said therapist has also had a session or two with the MM and his W, so he knows her beyond just MM's telling him about her). And guess what, if he is still married to her, and isnt 1000% sure he wants to be with you, you dont want contact with him so she will be looking for something that really doesnt exist. Point taken, but she'll do it anyway. She's now essentially "in bed" with my xH's family so there's a direct line of info to her everytime I sneeze. It's more than a little annoying, to say nothing of her continuing to inspect my mail and rive by 3000 times a day. Oh well.
whichwayisup Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 He doesn't blame me, deep down, but I am sure he's annoyed that he's forced to make a choice. Who wants to choose something that's in any way unpleasant no matter what you choose? He should blame himself seeing as he put himself IN this situation to begin with, where he eventually would have to choose between you and his wife. I agree. The fact that he's been in therapy almost a year now is a good thing, it's just so frustrating that he moves so glacially slow. How long ago did they separate? Just give it time and let him deal with the loss of his marriage, his life and all that he once knew. It isn't just about him losing his marriage, it's EVERYTHING else - friends, family, inlaws, changes with everything and everyone. Noone can just up and change their life like that and instantly start a new life with someone else.
whichwayisup Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 BUT he still thinks of going back sometimes because he feels the kids are having a bad reaction to his moving out and he misses them. The kids are reacting badly, Because of this, everything is out of your hands. He could very well change his mind and as much as you would hate that, him going back home, it is a possibility. He probably feels very obligated to his family and if going back, trying to work on the marriage, make it better for the kids sake is what he has to do, he may just do that. You may think it's wrong of him, but it's his choice. And he's allowed to change his mind, like it or not. Still think you need to allow him time and space to work through things and definately distance yourself emotionally from him. He isn't 'free' yet, he's separated, not divorced. BIG difference and things could change before you know it.
jj33 Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 Agreed to a certain extent, but I know it will get worse for me if he goes back to her because she'll never trust him again (rightfully so). Even his therapist agrees with me that he'd have another A because they M can't be fixed. (I have gone in on several joint sessions with MM so i hear this from the therapist directly. Said therapist has also had a session or two with the MM and his W, so he knows her beyond just MM's telling him about her). QUOTE] So long as he is home you shouldnt be involved with him (not judging here but for your sanity). So if he goes back to her, there wont be communication between the two of you. As for the rest of it, if you are venting fair enough, but that is his choice to make. And their problem if he has more affairs. The other thing is what does that say about his coping skills. If his way of coping is to stay in the M and cheat, then how would he deal with conflict if he did leave to be with you? We all hope it will be different, but something (other than him leaving) needs to change for his "life strategies" to change. Im not saying once a cheater always a cheater, but to change that script other changes need to be made. I think you need to think in terms of baby steps. Not that you should babysit but he seems to be a LONG way from being ready to start a life with you or anyone else. He has a LOT of work to do if he even leaves the W for good. He is conflicted. Hard as it must be you need to back away and focus on you because whether he will ever really leave, and whether things will be workable is such an open question. There are no more questions for you to ask, no advice for you to give him. he needs to do whatever he needs to do, but that is no reason for your life to be on hold. (easier said than done i know)
Author MistyK Posted July 21, 2009 Author Posted July 21, 2009 How long ago did they separate? Just give it time and let him deal with the loss of his marriage, his life and all that he once knew. It isn't just about him losing his marriage, it's EVERYTHING else - friends, family, inlaws, changes with everything and everyone. Noone can just up and change their life like that and instantly start a new life with someone else. He seperated 4 months ago. That sounds like a short time, but this has been going on 2.5 years, and he swore to make a life with me over a year ago. So for me, it feels like forever. I had 9 months to digest my D before it was final, and that helped, but I started the process quickly and moved along without major hiccups. I know it's not just the M. Truly, i missed my in-laws more than I missed my xH. Sure I 2nd guessed myself, but not really deep down inside. I knew the D was right. I know everyone's process is different, it's just that it's been sooooo long. I expect him to mourn it as i did mine, what bothers me is the refusal to really let go. He swears he will not delay the D, but yet he has not completed drawing up documents that must be done for the D and has not negotiated holiday visitation with the kids as part of the custody arrangement. In 8 days, the D could be final by law, but it will not be I would bet, mostly for these two reasons (and the W's lawyer has not sent 2 other documents that need to be signed to either of them for signature). Even if they were legally D, they are obviously not emotionally D, and that's more what i have the issue with. Boundaries, the lack therof. All things in time i guess.
whichwayisup Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 But it IS a short time..And him swearing to you to make a life with you - HE may have meant it, but obviously he's having a harder time making that happen. He has to put his kids first and if he feels going back home is best for them, then he owes to his kids to try to salvage and fix his marriage with his wife. Sorry, I'm sure this isn't what you want to hear, but it is part of the reality of your situation.
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