CM2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Hello Folks My wife has recently left me and said she's getting a divorce. Even though I've tried to fight it and trying to tell her lets work through and make it work, she feels that divorce is our only answer which I don't agree with because me gor married til death do us part and I truely believe in that. True I'm not perfect and I have made my share of mistakes and I have owned up to my mistakes. Now my question is now my spiritual beliefs, if she leaves me does that give me a pass to go seek another relationship even though it says in the bible what God has put together let no man tear apart. I'm just confused about the rest of my life and the approach. Any advice would be appreciated, thanks.
quankanne Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 the Catholic take on things (and what helps me understand my marriage, as I'm Mrs. Quank #3 ...) there's marriage, the social and legal bond, and then there's the sacramental bond of marriage, as upheld in the Catholic faith, which goes hand in hand with the spiritual, "til death do us part" bit. that said, a sacramental marriage is one that is free from impediment … both parties are "free" to marry and do so of free will ... no one is forced or feels compelled to go through with it just because the hall or the caterer is paid for even though they're having second thoughts. in other words, things have to be *just right* to be a sacramental marriage. If someone is psychologically unprepared for it, or unable to be married, it's not considered sacramentally "valid" ... if there's a previous marriage that has not been straightened out through the church (i.e., an anullment), it's not valid. If someone was forced into marriage (pregnant and deciding to marry to do the "right" thing), it's not a valid marriage because there's the question of free will. now thinking about your marriage: Did you go into it both understanding what you were doing? That divorce wasn't an option because you understood this was it? Were there problems going into the marriage that would affect the relationship – abuse, psychological problems, chemical dependency, immaturity, inability to remain monogamous, etc? If problems existed going into the relationship, that's some pretty faulty groundwork for a marriage, and thus not allowing it to be a fully spiritual marriage. DH's first wife got pregnant by another man ... her idea of fidelity was WAY different from my husband's; second wife had been married before and sacramentally speaking, was not free to marry DH ... she was also a flipping psycho, so cause for invalidity of that marriage was right there! At least, according to what I've been told by the priests who have counseled me. So while my marriage isn't sacramentally valid because we haven't gotten his first marriage annulled and ours validated by the church, those two previous marriages aren't valid either.
Author CM2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Author Posted July 20, 2009 Well here's a quick background, she had to kids out of wedlock. I loved her enough to be with her, im 28 right now and I got married when I was 24 years old. I went in understanding that this was for life and I was ready for that because the Lord had put someone in my life that I could see myself with. Their was no abuse, no cheating on my end, our living arrangement was kinda funny because we had just started out and I was trying to save money so went in with her Mom and got a house but with the idea that we were going to get our own house by the end of 2007, which was my target date. But I lost my job making real good money and that's where a lot of the problems started. But other then that we were on great terms entering the marriage.
Moose Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Well here's a quick background, she had to kids out of wedlock. I loved her enough to be with her, im 28 right now and I got married when I was 24 years old. I went in understanding that this was for life and I was ready for that because the Lord had put someone in my life that I could see myself with. Their was no abuse, no cheating on my end, our living arrangement was kinda funny because we had just started out and I was trying to save money so went in with her Mom and got a house but with the idea that we were going to get our own house by the end of 2007, which was my target date. But I lost my job making real good money and that's where a lot of the problems started. But other then that we were on great terms entering the marriage.May I ask, what faith, or denomination are you, and your wife? According to my faith, God literally HATES divorce: Malachi 2:16 NIV "I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel, Matthew 19:8 NIV Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. Granted, Mrs. Moose and I contiplated divorce during our first few years of being together. (22 years in December now) However, based on Scripture we realized this simply was NOT an option! Since then, we've grown to love each other, and more over, ACCEPT each other for who and what we are. If it had not of been for that decision, I would hate to think where or what we would be doing right now. Since then, we've helped countless couples keep their marriages intact even in cases of infidelity. The trials you're going through now will no doubt be for good according to God's word. (If you truly are a believer). Just my .02
Thornton Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 If your wife initiates a divorce it doesn't mean you've broken your vows - you held up your end of the bargain and you can't be held responsible for the fact that she broke her vows. I don't see why you couldn't seek an annulment on that basis, because she didn't intend to remain faithful. However, when looking at what the Bible says about divorce you have to consider the social context at the time it was written. Women were essentially the property of their husbands, and divorce would leave them destitute and helpless. Few men would marry a divorced woman, and she would essentially become a social outcast. The hard line that the Bible takes on divorce is a way of protecting women from such destitution, from being thrown away by a husband and cast out of society - another example of Jesus displaying his concern for the weaker members of society. I don't think such teachings are so widely applicable in modern society given the entirely different social context and lack of stigma about divorce - I can't imagine Jesus to counsel a woman to stay with a violent husband, or a man to stay with a wife who treats him badly and who will never change.
Thaddeus Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 The Bible, perhaps not surprisingly, is full of contradictions about divorce (and pretty much everything else, come to think of it. They can't even get the Genesis story straight!). Moose's quote from the book of Matthew also misses out on a very crucial bit of text that's missing from the quote. Matthew 19:9 says, "“And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery; and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.” (my emphasis) So, as I read it, divorce is permissible when one party commits adultery. But more to the point: Would your good and loving god send you to hell without an ice-pack because your wife wanted a divorce? That just doesn't make sense.
Author CM2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Author Posted July 20, 2009 May I ask, what faith, or denomination are you, and your wife? According to my faith, God literally HATES divorce: Malachi 2:16 NIV "I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel, Matthew 19:8 NIV Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. Granted, Mrs. Moose and I contiplated divorce during our first few years of being together. (22 years in December now) However, based on Scripture we realized this simply was NOT an option! Since then, we've grown to love each other, and more over, ACCEPT each other for who and what we are. If it had not of been for that decision, I would hate to think where or what we would be doing right now. Since then, we've helped countless couples keep their marriages intact even in cases of infidelity. The trials you're going through now will no doubt be for good according to God's word. (If you truly are a believer). Just my .02 We're Chrisitans and apart of a COGIC. Your story is sort of similar but she isn't willing to listen to what the word says about divorce.
Author CM2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Author Posted July 20, 2009 So if I was to get married again for me it won't be called adultry??
Thaddeus Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 So if I was to get married again for me it won't be called adultry??That's entirely dependent upon the church and clergy. Some hard-core fundamentalists (who, oddly, get divorced more often than others*) still cling to the notion that marriage is a lifelong commitment regardless of any other factor. Others aren't nearly so rigid. There's no generalized correct answer to this one. *edited to add source: Divorce rates among conservative Christians were significantly higher than for other faith groups, and much higher than Atheists and Agnostics experience.
Author CM2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Author Posted July 20, 2009 That's entirely dependent upon the church and clergy. Some hard-core fundamentalists (who, oddly, get divorced more often than others*) still cling to the notion that marriage is a lifelong commitment regardless of any other factor. Others aren't nearly so rigid. There's no generalized correct answer to this one. *edited to add source: Divorce rates among conservative Christians were significantly higher than for other faith groups, and much higher than Atheists and Agnostics experience. Ok cause I spoke to my sister who is truely into the word and she stated to me that since I held up my end of the bargin and wanted to work this marriage out it won't hender me in terms of me starting another relationship because she walked out on me now for her the adultry title will be on her because she broke up a marriage.
quankanne Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 not sure if your wife qualifies as an "adulterer" unless she was actually COMMITTING adultery ... however, if her view of marriage (thinking it's disposable) greatly differs from yours (it's forever), you two weren't really equally yoked, you know? And that would be the impediment of a "sacramentally valid" marriage. Again, Catholic teaching, but there's a lot of truth behind it when you think about it.
Author CM2009 Posted July 21, 2009 Author Posted July 21, 2009 The word also states that we shouldn't be unevenly yoked. She doesn't want to be married, which could lead your focus away from God and onto keeping her your wife. He says if they want to go let them. She has chosen not to listen to the scriptures and you aren't responsible for others actions, only your own. very interesting what you posted in which makes a lot of sense!!!
taiko Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 Ok cause I spoke to my sister who is truely into the word and she stated to me that since I held up my end of the bargin and wanted to work this marriage out it won't hender me in terms of me starting another relationship because she walked out on me now for her the adultry title will be on her because she broke up a marriage. We all seek our own path. Some give ultimate responsibility to their advisers or some sort of council of elders. If you believe that you would be sinning for having another relationship sometime in the future, well basically that will be your belief. Some organizations will give you relief in many forms, most famously the annulment proclaiming a, (fill in the blank term) marriage never took place. But on the other hand you were not a fornicator during that non marriage. Other organizations will limit you in terms of where you can fit in their hiercy. Thus a divorced man can not be an elder or pastor, unless he/she was already a star in ministry before the divorce. Just saying we can't awnser this for you. Especially when the need of companionship comes into conflict with what you think God's plan is.
Moose Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 The Bible, perhaps not surprisingly, is full of contradictions about divorce (and pretty much everything else, come to think of it. They can't even get the Genesis story straight!). Oh boy...here we go again! Please clarify that this is only your opinion, because it is simply not a FACT. There is not ONE contradiction in Scripture. Context, context, context!!! Yes, you are correct about Matthew 19:9 that if the husband or wife commit adultry, then by all rights, divorce is permissible. However, Jesus also said that if you lust after a man or a woman, you've already committed the act of adultry in your heart. (anyone not guilty of that, please stand up). So to say that, "I'm divorcing you because the Bible says I can" is not cause to actually divorce that person. The preferred answer would be total forgiveness and keep the marriage intact. This would not only please God, but will also strengthen the marriage itself. If said party isn't willing, then by all means, let that person go and continue in their ways. The consequences are on their head at that point.
Thaddeus Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 Oh boy...here we go again! Please clarify that this is only your opinion, because it is simply not a FACT.At the risk of hijacking the thread, there are two distinct creation stories in Genesis. In Genesis 1:25-27, humans were created before the animals, and man and women were created simultaneously. And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image.... So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. In Genesis 2:18-19, the male was created first, then the animals, then the female.And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help mate for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. But maybe that's another discussion for another time and thread.
Author CM2009 Posted July 21, 2009 Author Posted July 21, 2009 At the risk of hijacking the thread, there are two distinct creation stories in Genesis. In Genesis 1:25-27, humans were created before the animals, and man and women were created simultaneously. In Genesis 2:18-19, the male was created first, then the animals, then the female.But maybe that's another discussion for another time and thread. Thank you everyone so far for the info. I'm very greatful for all your advice, please post more if you can.
disgracian Posted July 21, 2009 Posted July 21, 2009 There is not ONE contradiction in Scripture. Context, context, context!!! Please clarify that is just your opinion, because it is simply no more a fact than saying that there are contradictions. I would hate to think that the rules are being applied selectively here. Cheers, D.
Author CM2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Author Posted July 22, 2009 No with her wanting to leave and as a man of faith she needs health insurance because she had a stroke last year, and her and I have been living in seperate places now should help her out in terms of paying for the health insurance because she isn't working because of it?
Thaddeus Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 No with her wanting to leave and as a man of faith she needs health insurance because she had a stroke last year, and her and I have been living in seperate places now should help her out in terms of paying for the health insurance because she isn't working because of it?It's very honorable of you to ensure that she's got health insurance coverage and if I were in your shoes I'd be tempted to do the same thing. But her leaving is her choice, and she has to take responsibility for the choices she's making. One of those responsibilities is the management of her own health insurance. Sounds like she wants the freedom of singlehood as long as you help pay her bills. Highly unfair. Would you expect her to pay some of your bills if you decided you wanted out of the marriage?
Author CM2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Author Posted July 22, 2009 I know and im struggling with that right now, should I or shouldn't. And yes it is unfair for her to still want me to pay the bills but also I guess to show her I care for her which she now thinks I don't, I've heard from people who tell me to at least help and some who have been blunt and said no. Don't get me wrong I do want my marriage to work but right now I am seriously struggling with this.
Thaddeus Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 I don't doubt that you're struggling with this. It's a tough situation. You might try some sort of compromise. Suggest to her that you'll help underwrite her health care premiums for a limited period of time (say, six months), write it down and she is to sign it. Reason for that is that after six months, if there's no written agreement, she may be able to use that as leverage in a legal/court situation to the effect that you've taken responsibility for her heath care coverage with no end date. This does a few things: It helps her out It gives her a definite timeline after which she'll be on her own It keeps you from being legally responsible for her health care coverage for an indefinite time
Author CM2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Author Posted July 22, 2009 Oh yeah definately she asked can I do it for 6 months, BUT!!!!!! now since I've we've seperated im in the market to purchase a home. Now with this crazy butt economy I've tried to strap myself with cash so when the time comes for me to pay a mortgage I'll be set and the thing with the premiums is that the money that I'm giving up for that could be used for bills and the mortgage, now I don't know but I also know she was seeing someone while we were seperated and right now I don't know if I can do it right now just off the fact that what I've uncovered...
Thaddeus Posted July 22, 2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Well, then, your choice is easy. She made her bed (proverbially speaking). She's going to have to lie in it. You're certainly under no obligation to pay for anything for her. If the fellow she was seeing while you were married is so enamoured with her, he can pick up her insurance premiums.
Author CM2009 Posted July 22, 2009 Author Posted July 22, 2009 Well, then, your choice is easy. She made her bed (proverbially speaking). She's going to have to lie in it. You're certainly under no obligation to pay for anything for her. If the fellow she was seeing while you were married is so enamoured with her, he can pick up her insurance premiums. Yeah and I'm struggling with wanting to help her out cause I still love her and the Christian side of me is pulling to help her out regardless of if we do work it out, but also I was hurt with that I found out and even though I have a lot of faults inside my marriage, times where I hurt her but nothing like that, but more of support financial and sometimes emotionally and I'll be the first to admit my problems inside my marriage.
Author CM2009 Posted July 23, 2009 Author Posted July 23, 2009 Part of being a Christian is telling someone when they are wrong and not enabling them to continue the behavior. If she is to learn from the error that has led to a harsher life, then she will need to experience all the consequences of those actions. The Lord cast Adam and Eve out of the garden(paradise)to make it on their own, but he didn't stop loving them. What I'm getting is to still show love but not the love that comes out of my pocket!!!
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