runnergirl Posted July 19, 2009 Posted July 19, 2009 I just need to get this out. I recently posted my story in the marriage forum, but the situation keeps on deteriorating. I've been married for 2 1/2 years. I'm 25, my husband is 30. We dated for about 4 years prior to getting married. Our relationship was good while dating, although I will say that there was never a lot of passion between us. I felt that we loved each other deeply though and we seemed to share a lot of the same life goals. We moved in together for the year prior to getting married and had some issues with arguing and just generally not getting along. I believe we both had some reservations about getting married, but decided to move forward with it anyway. So now we've been married for a few years and I think we're starting to grow apart. My husband desperately wants to have a baby. I just don't feel ready for a baby quite yet. I'm just recently graduated with a master's degree and I want to get a bit more established in my career and live life a bit (travel, spending time doing hobbies, etc). I gave into his pressure for a baby last year, got pregnant, and had a miscarriage. I still don't think I'm over the grief of that either. My husband says he is willing to wait a few more years for me to be ready, but he doesn't believe that I'll ever be ready. I DO eventually want to have children, but I'm only 25 and I don't know how I'm going to feel in 2 or 3 years. The other issue that he is constantly on me about is my desire to continue my education to the PhD level. This has always been my goal and he has known it (and formerly supported me in it) since I've met him. Now, he is completely set against the idea of me continuing my education (in a few years) and states that he will divorce me if I pursue it. No compromise on this issue whatsoever. I've been trying to get my husband to go to marriage counseling with me, but he refuses. He typically avoids having a serious conversation about these issues, although I did finally get him to open up last night. He admitted that he is not currently in love me with, although he does still love me, and he doesn't know what to do about our problems. The other problems: lack of passion (sometimes we go for several weeks without having sex and sometimes the sex is just not good). Lately, my husband has been relying more and more on porn and even incorporating it into our sex life (watching porn while having sex). Sometimes I don't mind this, but all the time is too much. I will also admit that most of our bedroom issues are my own fault. I just feel a lack of desire for him and sometimes I really don't want to have sex. I also feel a lack of emotional connection from my husband, which may be part of the reason why I don't want to have sex. I feel like he doesn't understand or appreciate the real me. He never just wants to talk to me or have a normal friendly conversation. I tell him that I need him to pay more attention to me, and his response is, "I'm just not a talker. You knew that when you married me." I don't know if I believe in a soulmate (as in there only being one person out there that is perfect for you), but I do believe in soulmates in general (someone that you meet and feel instantly connected and on the same wavelength). I've asked my husband if he thinks I'm a soulmate of his and he says no. I've never admitted it, but deep down inside, I agree. I just don't feel that kind of a connection with him The lack of passion, emotional connection, or whatever is really starting to get to me. I have a male friend that I keep having thoughts about, both sexual fantasies and fantasies about what it would just be like to date him. He knows nothing about these thoughts and nothing inappropriate has ever happened between us. But I feel so guilty because I want something to happen. Right now I feel so confused and really don't know how much this is influencing my feelings about my husband. I was having all of these issues with my husband before I ever started having the fantasies about this other man. But now I'm starting to feel as though I deserve to be in a relationship in which there is passion and understanding. I've told my husband that I would like to have a trial separation. He is indifferent- says he doesn't want it, but he knows that we do have problems. And if I keep talking about a PhD, then we need a divorce. I feel like I'm at a real crossroads- I could choose to ignore these issues and continue on. I'm not living a bad life- we have a beautiful home in the country, I adore his family, and he is a good man and a good provider. I know that he would be a great father. I could live a very comfortable life with a partner that does love me. I just don't know if it's the kind of love that I always envisioned should be present in a marriage. My fear of our future is us having children and never having sex again, but being great friends. Is it unrealistic to expect passion in a marriage? I know that love changes over time and it's impossible to keep that fresh, falling in love feeling forever, but is what we are experiencing normal? How do you know if separation is the right thing? I just hurt so bad knowing how this is going to tear our families up...
Thaddeus Posted July 19, 2009 Posted July 19, 2009 Is it unrealistic to expect passion in a marriage? I know that love changes over time and it's impossible to keep that fresh, falling in love feeling forever, but is what we are experiencing normal? How do you know if separation is the right thing? I just hurt so bad knowing how this is going to tear our families up... The level of expectation you have forced upon yourself and your partnership is unhealthy. Expecting it to be all eternal sunshine and roses and mutual orgasms simply isn't reality. Here's the fulcrum of the entire problem:The other problems: lack of passion (sometimes we go for several weeks without having sex and sometimes the sex is just not good). Lately, my husband has been relying more and more on porn and even incorporating it into our sex life (watching porn while having sex). Sometimes I don't mind this, but all the time is too much. I will also admit that most of our bedroom issues are my own fault. I just feel a lack of desire for him and sometimes I really don't want to have sex. I also feel a lack of emotional connection from my husband, which may be part of the reason why I don't want to have sex. I feel like he doesn't understand or appreciate the real me.That's not the other problem, that's the problem. You feel unappreciated so you won't have sex with him. He feels unappreciated precisely because you won't have sex with him. If you were having sex with him, he'd feel appreciated and he'd make you feel appreciated in return. I've said this before but it bears repeating: It all starts with intimacy. All of it.
Author runnergirl Posted July 19, 2009 Author Posted July 19, 2009 Thaddeus, thanks for your input. I know that there is not always "eternal sunshine" in any long-term relationship. But I struggle with if we ever had such passion and if I deserve to be with someone that I feel a deep connection with. Maybe I'm not putting it into words correctly? Even when we were having sex on a regular basis, he still didn't make me feel appreciated and the sex was still not good. I will agree that the intimacy is a real problem, but he doesn't seem willing to work on this.
hopesndreams Posted July 19, 2009 Posted July 19, 2009 The level of expectation you have forced upon yourself and your partnership is unhealthy. Expecting it to be all eternal sunshine and roses and mutual orgasms simply isn't reality. Here's the fulcrum of the entire problem:That's not the other problem, that's the problem. You feel unappreciated so you won't have sex with him. He feels unappreciated precisely because you won't have sex with him. If you were having sex with him, he'd feel appreciated and he'd make you feel appreciated in return. I've said this before but it bears repeating: It all starts with intimacy. All of it. It all starts with what is between the ears. Runnergirl, you must stop fantasizing about this other guy. It will destroy your marriage. Let the focus of your life be your husband and your career. H is putting you under pressure to have another baby and wants you to not go for your PHD. Those are your 2 issues. If those issues cannot be resolved, which you are both having difficulty with, than other things will come between the both of you. As in porn, as in the fantasy you have of being with another that you might have "passion" with. The passion is dying in your marriage because of those 2 issues. (see above) Once those issues are dealt with you will have a clearer understanding of your husband, yourself and what you want in your future.
Thaddeus Posted July 19, 2009 Posted July 19, 2009 A couple of things immediately spring to mind when I read this:...if I deserve to be with someone that I feel a deep connection with.First of all, take a cruise through the threads and see how many have ended up with a partner that's clearly unhealthy for them because they felt they had this "deep connection." The examples are legion. Secondly, what we feel we deserve and what our expectations are entirely colors how we view our current situation. Do we all deserve to be financially independent, lucky in love and with above-average children? We may feel like we do, but that's a mindset of entitlement (also very common - I'm not saying that it's a particular problem with you personally, I'm just saying that I see it around me every single day.) We feel we deserve all the goodies but aren't willing to put in the effort to attain them. If you feel you deserve these things and then are willing to put in the effort, then more power to you. But if you feel you deserve them and then just expect "the universe" to provide them to you on a silver platter (à la that most successful of frauds, The Secret), you'll be sorely disappointed. As for this:It all starts with what is between the ears.I don't necessarily disagree if we're speaking in the context of an individual, but this question was post in the context of a marriage. When the sex is good and healthy, everything else will become so much easier, including coming to decisions like kids, PhDs, etc. etc. But when it's not, everything else in the relationship will become more difficult. (BTW, runnergirl, what PhD are you looking in to? Just curious... I'm considering it myself.)
hopesndreams Posted July 19, 2009 Posted July 19, 2009 When the sex is good and healthy, everything else will become so much easier, When what is happening in your life, be it contentment, love, trust and security that you share with someone...the good, healthy sex you talk about will then come naturally. You seem to have it twisted.
Thaddeus Posted July 19, 2009 Posted July 19, 2009 When what is happening in your life, be it contentment, love, trust and security that you share with someone...the good, healthy sex you talk about will then come naturally. You seem to have it twisted. I see we disagree on that, but that's OK, there is lots of room for differing opinions. It's hardly "twisted." I'll try to not take that as a personal insult and let it go at that.
hopesndreams Posted July 19, 2009 Posted July 19, 2009 No personal insult intended thad..twisted was just an expression.
Author runnergirl Posted July 19, 2009 Author Posted July 19, 2009 It all starts with what is between the ears. Runnergirl, you must stop fantasizing about this other guy. It will destroy your marriage. Let the focus of your life be your husband and your career. H is putting you under pressure to have another baby and wants you to not go for your PHD. Those are your 2 issues. If those issues cannot be resolved, which you are both having difficulty with, than other things will come between the both of you. As in porn, as in the fantasy you have of being with another that you might have "passion" with. The passion is dying in your marriage because of those 2 issues. (see above) Once those issues are dealt with you will have a clearer understanding of your husband, yourself and what you want in your future. I agree...but what if he doesn't want to work on these 2 issues? There is no compromise for him- it is his way or else! I guess that's where we are stuck- dealing with these issues.
Author runnergirl Posted July 19, 2009 Author Posted July 19, 2009 If you feel you deserve these things and then are willing to put in the effort, then more power to you. But if you feel you deserve them and then just expect "the universe" to provide them to you on a silver platter (à la that most successful of frauds, The Secret), you'll be sorely disappointed.... (BTW, runnergirl, what PhD are you looking in to? Just curious... I'm considering it myself.) I DO feel that I deserve to be in a good marriage and to be happy. I know that I can't expect to be happy all the time, but the majority of time, yes. Is this unrealistic?? (I want to do a PhD in biomedical science. What are you considering?)
Thaddeus Posted July 19, 2009 Posted July 19, 2009 I DO feel that I deserve to be in a good marriage and to be happy. I know that I can't expect to be happy all the time, but the majority of time, yes. Is this unrealistic??Relationships ebb and flow. That's normal. My grandparents were married for 58 years and there were years when both weren't happy. Financial issues, problems with in-laws, you name it, they went through it. (Possibly sexual issues as well, though that wasn't considered dinner conversation.) But they always came back to the same touch-point: That love is a decision, not a feeling. (I stole that quote from them.) No matter who you are with, if you are with them for long enough there will be plenty of times that you won't consider yourself "happy." That's just reality. Some deal with this by serial marriages (Larry King comes to mind, as does Liz Taylor). Others find excitement outside of their marriage through affairs. Staying together through thick and thin requires commitment and hard, hard work. If you make the commitment and do the hard work, then you may be lucky enough to get what you feel you deserve. But there are no guarantees. There never were.(I want to do a PhD in biomedical science. What are you considering?)Leadership Studies out of Exeter in the UK. Haven't decided yet, it's a huge commitment and is pretty expensive.
hopesndreams Posted July 19, 2009 Posted July 19, 2009 Keep bringing up the issues of when you want to start a family and how it's important to you to further your education. Keep the lines of communication open. Also, ask yourself, what makes this other man you are fantasizing about so special. What does he have that you desire that your husband no longer possesses. I know that I can't expect to be happy all the time, but the majority of time, yes. Is this unrealistic?? You cannot find happiness through someone else. You must find it within yourself.
Thaddeus Posted July 19, 2009 Posted July 19, 2009 You cannot find happiness through someone else. You must find it within yourself.Bingo. Happiness is not a result or a destination to be attained or conquered. It is a by-product of living well.
NoseOverTail Posted July 19, 2009 Posted July 19, 2009 runnergirl, why doesn't he want you to pursue your education? has he given you any reasons?
Eye of Hourus Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Hey Runnergirl, didn't you used to post over on the SI website? Cause if it is you I think you better level with folks here about the whole situation.
D-Lish Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 I think that if I married someone under the guise that he was supportive of my educational endeavours, and found that not to be the case, I'd feel stifled. Intimacy is important as others have stated, but it is hard to maintain that intimacy when one partner threatens to leave you if you pursue your life dream. Threats foster resentment in a relationship.
Gunny376 Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 I just need to get this out. I recently posted my story in the marriage forum, but the situation keeps on deteriorating. I've been married for 2 1/2 years. I'm 25, my husband is 30. We dated for about 4 years prior to getting married. Our relationship was good while dating, although I will say that there was never a lot of passion between us. I felt that we loved each other deeply though and we seemed to share a lot of the same life goals. We moved in together for the year prior to getting married and had some issues with arguing and just generally not getting along. I believe we both had some reservations about getting married, but decided to move forward with it anyway. So now we've been married for a few years and I think we're starting to grow apart. My husband desperately wants to have a baby. I just don't feel ready for a baby quite yet. I'm just recently graduated with a master's degree and I want to get a bit more established in my career and live life a bit (travel, spending time doing hobbies, etc). I gave into his pressure for a baby last year, got pregnant, and had a miscarriage. I still don't think I'm over the grief of that either. My husband says he is willing to wait a few more years for me to be ready, but he doesn't believe that I'll ever be ready. I DO eventually want to have children, but I'm only 25 and I don't know how I'm going to feel in 2 or 3 years. The other issue that he is constantly on me about is my desire to continue my education to the PhD level. This has always been my goal and he has known it (and formerly supported me in it) since I've met him. Now, he is completely set against the idea of me continuing my education (in a few years) and states that he will divorce me if I pursue it. No compromise on this issue whatsoever. I've been trying to get my husband to go to marriage counseling with me, but he refuses. He typically avoids having a serious conversation about these issues, although I did finally get him to open up last night. He admitted that he is not currently in love me with, although he does still love me, and he doesn't know what to do about our problems. The other problems: lack of passion (sometimes we go for several weeks without having sex and sometimes the sex is just not good). Lately, my husband has been relying more and more on porn and even incorporating it into our sex life (watching porn while having sex). Sometimes I don't mind this, but all the time is too much. I will also admit that most of our bedroom issues are my own fault. I just feel a lack of desire for him and sometimes I really don't want to have sex. I also feel a lack of emotional connection from my husband, which may be part of the reason why I don't want to have sex. I feel like he doesn't understand or appreciate the real me. He never just wants to talk to me or have a normal friendly conversation. I tell him that I need him to pay more attention to me, and his response is, "I'm just not a talker. You knew that when you married me." I don't know if I believe in a soulmate (as in there only being one person out there that is perfect for you), but I do believe in soulmates in general (someone that you meet and feel instantly connected and on the same wavelength). I've asked my husband if he thinks I'm a soulmate of his and he says no. I've never admitted it, but deep down inside, I agree. I just don't feel that kind of a connection with him The lack of passion, emotional connection, or whatever is really starting to get to me. I have a male friend that I keep having thoughts about, both sexual fantasies and fantasies about what it would just be like to date him. He knows nothing about these thoughts and nothing inappropriate has ever happened between us. But I feel so guilty because I want something to happen. Right now I feel so confused and really don't know how much this is influencing my feelings about my husband. I was having all of these issues with my husband before I ever started having the fantasies about this other man. But now I'm starting to feel as though I deserve to be in a relationship in which there is passion and understanding. I've told my husband that I would like to have a trial separation. He is indifferent- says he doesn't want it, but he knows that we do have problems. And if I keep talking about a PhD, then we need a divorce. I feel like I'm at a real crossroads- I could choose to ignore these issues and continue on. I'm not living a bad life- we have a beautiful home in the country, I adore his family, and he is a good man and a good provider. I know that he would be a great father. I could live a very comfortable life with a partner that does love me. I just don't know if it's the kind of love that I always envisioned should be present in a marriage. My fear of our future is us having children and never having sex again, but being great friends. Is it unrealistic to expect passion in a marriage? I know that love changes over time and it's impossible to keep that fresh, falling in love feeling forever, but is what we are experiencing normal? How do you know if separation is the right thing? I just hurt so bad knowing how this is going to tear our families up... Yes what is going on between you and the DH is normal. But that matters not? What matters is that you project yourself forward forty years with him, and the children, and the grandchildren ~ and looking back over your life and regreeting not having lived your life to its fullest and to its top! Not having gotten your PhD. Not having __________________ Not having _______________________ Not having ___________________________ For what? Having lived a passionless marraige with a man who's not "in love" with you, and with whom your not "in love' with. I say this to you because, you've seem to have a good handle on things? Mentally, emotionally, etc. Live your life for yourself! Not someone else! IMHO? Any man who would say they would divorce their wife for pursuing a PhD? Is a freaking idiot! He's afraid your going to 'out-do' him, be smarter than him, 'out-grow' him, etc. Its about his losing control of the relationship and perhaps of you! You couldn't get rid of this insecure clown fast enough!
giotto Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 well said, Gunny! Although it's not always easy to leave your dearest family behind, I don't quite understand this obsession with "committment". I'm sorry, but if you are not happy, you are not happy. Why stay with him? Committment? I would call it masochisms... Funnily enough, in my own situation, I decided to committ myself to the family, but that's just for the children. If you don't have children together, leave now. If he is not supporting you as far as your further education is concerned, leave now. You will regret it. There's plenty of men in the world...
LisaUk Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 well said, Gunny! Although it's not always easy to leave your dearest family behind, I don't quite understand this obsession with "committment". I'm sorry, but if you are not happy, you are not happy. Why stay with him? Committment? I would call it masochisms... Funnily enough, in my own situation, I decided to committ myself to the family, but that's just for the children. If you don't have children together, leave now. If he is not supporting you as far as your further education is concerned, leave now. You will regret it. There's plenty of men in the world... I know you don't get this Giotto, I have tried to express why commitment is fundemental to a marriage to you before so I won't reiterate it again. The only other way I can express it is this, "why bother getting married at all if you aren't going to attempt to honour your vows and work through any relationship problems?" That about sums up all that causes divorce IMHO.
LisaUk Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Hey Runnergirl, didn't you used to post over on the SI website? Cause if it is you I think you better level with folks here about the whole situation. Hi, what's the SI website?
Author runnergirl Posted July 20, 2009 Author Posted July 20, 2009 Hey Runnergirl, didn't you used to post over on the SI website? Cause if it is you I think you better level with folks here about the whole situation. That was not me...I have no idea what the SI website is. Thanks to everyone for all of the input. What Gunny said is exactly my fear. I could stay with my husband and have a decent life. But I know that I will regret not pursuing my dreams and always wonder "what if". I guess I'm just at the point where I need to decide if my dreams are worth it. I don't believe that someone who loved me unconditionally would put an ultimatium like this on our relationship. He knows how important this is to me. And as far as him wanting a child right now- well, I'm proud to say I'm a feminist and this conflicts with my values that it is MY body and if I'm not ready yet, then I'm just not ready. Nothing good can come of me giving in and getting pregnant when I feel that I'm not ready to be a mother yet. Noseovertail, his reasons for not wanting me to pursue the PhD include the fact that it is not the lifestyle he wants to live. Getting a PhD involves a lot of time and effort and he doesn't want that to distract from a possible family life. People do have children and are able to complete a PhD, so this is not a good enough reason for me. And as mentioned above, we don't even have children yet.
giotto Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 I know you don't get this Giotto, I have tried to express why commitment is fundemental to a marriage to you before so I won't reiterate it again. The only other way I can express it is this, "why bother getting married at all if you aren't going to attempt to honour your vows and work through any relationship problems?" That about sums up all that causes divorce IMHO. I haven't said that committment is not important, it is, but I don't see the point in pursuing committment at all costs, when it's clear that it's not going to work. People get married because they love each other, but when love finishes - and it does in many cases - you can try as long as you can to resurrect the relationship... it won't work. I understand your case, you never got the chance in that respect. But I've been through the MC and "let's give it another go" stage. It's important to try and salvage the relationship, absolutely, but if that fails, why torturing yourself on a long term basis if there is a way out, especially if there are no children? If love ends, to me "committment" is only towards family life and children and I will stay because of them. Obviously we have a different attitude towards relationships, but I think that stems from what happened to us in the relationship itself...
LisaUk Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 I haven't said that committment is not important, it is, but I don't see the point in pursuing committment at all costs, when it's clear that it's not going to work. People get married because they love each other, but when love finishes - and it does in many cases - you can try as long as you can to resurrect the relationship... it won't work. I understand your case, you never got the chance in that respect. But I've been through the MC and "let's give it another go" stage. It's important to try and salvage the relationship, absolutely, but if that fails, why torturing yourself on a long term basis if there is a way out, especially if there are no children? If love ends, to me "committment" is only towards family life and children and I will stay because of them. Obviously we have a different attitude towards relationships, but I think that stems from what happened to us in the relationship itself... Yes, I agree provided both people have worked together to try first, to say love finishes though? As another poster says on here love is an action not a feeling. Love is a choice? With regrads to staying fo rthe sake of the children, do you think it is always wise to do so? Do you think that sometimes it would be better for a child to be raised with the role model of a healthy and happy relationship, or two parents who are happy but seperate? You see for me, my ex's problems are clearly as a direct result of growing up in an enviroment in which he wittnessed excessive arguing and destructive behaviour, destructive and unloving attitudes of his parents towards each other, resulting in him having negative associations towards marriage and developing an irrational fear of commitment and marriage (according to my counsellor). Do you think it is best to stay because of the children?
giotto Posted July 20, 2009 Posted July 20, 2009 Yes, I agree provided both people have worked together to try first, to say love finishes though? As another poster says on here love is an action not a feeling. Love is a choice? With regrads to staying fo rthe sake of the children, do you think it is always wise to do so? Do you think that sometimes it would be better for a child to be raised with the role model of a healthy and happy relationship, or two parents who are happy but seperate? You see for me, my ex's problems are clearly as a direct result of growing up in an enviroment in which he wittnessed excessive arguing and destructive behaviour, destructive and unloving attitudes of his parents towards each other, resulting in him having negative associations towards marriage and developing an irrational fear of commitment and marriage (according to my counsellor). Do you think it is best to stay because of the children? I don't buy the "love is an action, not a feeling" arguiment... seems total bonkers to me... love is also an action, but a feeling in the firts place. Love does finish, believe me. If we start manipulating these concepts, we'll be here forever... Staying for the sake of the children: it really depends on the circumstances. I've decided to stay, but with it comes the commitment () to be a happy father. I don't hate my wife, we get along ok and things are much better than in the past, although I still feel quite hurt for how our relationship developed and also angry with myself for not understanding and taking the escape route. I believe we are doing ok and I'm fairly sure - at the moment - that my children are better off in this environment than with separated parents. As I said, it's my commitment to my family. At least I can commit to them, if I cannot commit to my wife anymore.
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