Trialbyfire Posted July 18, 2009 Posted July 18, 2009 Courtesy appears to be at a premium, these days. If you don't raise your children with common courtesy, it stands to reason that they're not going to behave as such. Courtesy is what I've grown up with and are surrounded with, at least when it comes to family and friendships. When I experience discourtesy from people, it makes me walk away, since I see it tied into an aspect of respect for others. This is a bar, that's immovable. If someone treats you with disrespect, be glad they're flaking out sooner, rather than later, after you've invested.
pwnstigator Posted July 18, 2009 Posted July 18, 2009 Great point you made there. How do you separate out the flakes from the sincere before you've gotten your heart broken? Not let them break your heart, by not getting emotionally invested too early. It takes time before you know if a person is worth the emotional investment. As far as I know, there's no shortcut. A bad person can pretend to be a good person for a long time, and while there are some obvious wrong approaches (meeting people at bars/clubs, for example) it's possible to make all the right moves and still catch a dud. Just because she'll go to bed with you, for example, doesn't mean she respects you as a person (this is a somewhat traumatic, but relatively universal, lesson learned).
Sam Spade Posted July 18, 2009 Posted July 18, 2009 Bingo. Suburban-raised Americans are terrible in this regard. I live in Manhattan, where you see this at its worst. The apparent abundance of young, relatively wealthy people allows a lot of people to entertain the illusion that there's an infinite pool of available dating partners, so a lot of people cop an attitude and refuse to take anyone seriously. This, however, turns the supposed infinite availability into a massive fraud. What good is it to be surrounded by attractive people if most of them are not even capable of taking another person seriously? Haha, that's exactly the image I have in my head observing the dating world . I don't know if it is accurate, but it sure is annoying as hell. The jury's out on who's got it right/who's happier. I personally consider myself very old school in that regard and would rather settle with a good woman and establish a strong family, rather than behave like a kid in a freaking candy store . While the hipsters jump from one another, I'll raise a badass family, and in 30 years, when I achieve world domination, those still single hipsters can come and kiss my ring. I'll write them a check to renew their online dating subscription .
Author LovieDove24 Posted July 25, 2009 Author Posted July 25, 2009 I experienced the mother of all flake outs not too long ago. I was dating a guy for over five months. We had a little squabble over the phone about which day we would have our next date and the conversation ended with him decidedly saying, "I'll call you on Wednesday so we can discuss it further." And I never, ever heard back from him again. After five months and the jerk was saying he loved me! I contacted him a few times via email just hoping to get a response back just that he was ALIVE, but nothin! Eventually it was confirmed he still had a pulse when I drove by his work and his car was outside. The most disturbing part is that he is not the only person in the dating scene who has done this. Its just terrible. And you guys have had some very interesting theories thus far: 1) Use of technology dwindling interpersonal communication skills 2) Throw away culture 3) Permissive parenting resulting in narcissitic attitudes. 4) Availability of texts, emails makes it just plain easier to avoid uncomfortable conversations.
Cherry Blossom 35 Posted July 25, 2009 Posted July 25, 2009 I experienced the mother of all flake outs not too long ago. I was dating a guy for over five months. We had a little squabble over the phone about which day we would have our next date and the conversation ended with him decidedly saying, "I'll call you on Wednesday so we can discuss it further." And I never, ever heard back from him again. After five months and the jerk was saying he loved me! I contacted him a few times via email just hoping to get a response back just that he was ALIVE, but nothin! Eventually it was confirmed he still had a pulse when I drove by his work and his car was outside. The most disturbing part is that he is not the only person in the dating scene who has done this. Its just terrible. And you guys have had some very interesting theories thus far: 1) Use of technology dwindling interpersonal communication skills 2) Throw away culture 3) Permissive parenting resulting in narcissitic attitudes. 4) Availability of texts, emails makes it just plain easier to avoid uncomfortable conversations. I agree that all of these factors contribute to the breakdown in communication. What bothers me the most is that at the root of it, the people who are blowing others off in this manner do not have empathy. They cannot or will not put themselves in another's shoes. They just don't care how anyone else feels. That, to me, is the most disturbing part of this trend. I cannot imagine going out with someone for 5 months and then disappearing entirely. How could you do that to someone who has invested time and emotional resources in you?
crosswordfiend Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 And you guys have had some very interesting theories thus far: 1) Use of technology dwindling interpersonal communication skills 2) Throw away culture 3) Permissive parenting resulting in narcissitic attitudes. 4) Availability of texts, emails makes it just plain easier to avoid uncomfortable conversations. I agree with all of these, but I think the predominant reason would be that most people find it easier to avoid confrontation. There are a few threads floating around here where people are arguing about the etiquette in declining a date request. Most of the women on this board advocate for avoidance hoping the other person will get the hint, whereas the men, in general, say that a NO is much better than no response at all. I'd be interested to hear where you weigh in on this debate.
tkgirl Posted July 26, 2009 Posted July 26, 2009 I personally think we are just now beginning to see the effects of growing up in the "hi-tech" era. Communication is becoming less and less personal and we are beginning to see the effects of people growing up with computers instead of interpersonal interactions. this is what I think too.. it's pretty sad actually.
Author LovieDove24 Posted July 27, 2009 Author Posted July 27, 2009 I agree with all of these, but I think the predominant reason would be that most people find it easier to avoid confrontation. There are a few threads floating around here where people are arguing about the etiquette in declining a date request. Most of the women on this board advocate for avoidance hoping the other person will get the hint, whereas the men, in general, say that a NO is much better than no response at all. I'd be interested to hear where you weigh in on this debate. If someone requests a date on a dating website and I read their profile and am not interested, I simply ignore the request and move on. Again, I did mention I'm slightly guilty of "flaking" as well. However, I view it ENTIRELY differently if requested in person by someone I know or possibly even someone I meet out, say at the bar. For this reason, I believe face to face communication is the most superior when it comes to honest communication these days. Email, texts and the like are almost just too easy to avoid because the minute you close the email that person is out of your mind, thoughts and, essentially, your life. When that person is staring you right in the face however, its not that easy...which leaves the "dumper" with little choice but to be honest and move on. Technology makes it much too easy to avoid confrontation and also effective communication.
Yellowboy Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 Courtesy appears to be at a premium, these days. If you don't raise your children with common courtesy, it stands to reason that they're not going to behave as such. Courtesy is what I've grown up with and are surrounded with, at least when it comes to family and friendships. When I experience discourtesy from people, it makes me walk away, since I see it tied into an aspect of respect for others. This is a bar, that's immovable. If someone treats you with disrespect, be glad they're flaking out sooner, rather than later, after you've invested. I think it really boils down to this common courtesy. It seems most of us are blaming technology, but in part, it's how people uses it that shows what type of people they are. You text a girl to set up a time for a date, either she flakes out the last minute by texting you, or she doesn't reply at all. I think the medium has changed, but what we do as human beings remain the same. Let's remove mobile phones, and have the guy make a phone call to her to set up a date. She may not bother picking up the phone to ignore the issue entirely. Or she won't simply show up. Same thing. Different medium. It still describes what type of a girl she is.
Stark Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 It's a sign of selfishness and lack of respect towards people as being people with feelings. Care only about yourself and have no regards for other peoples feelings. If they aren't working out for you, ignore them or consistently make up excuses until they take the hint. Who cares what they think or feel. In my opinion, the whole modern way of seeing people is based around selfishness and putting on an act. Don't reveal how you feel. Play it 'cool'. "go with the flow." Exclusive talk needs 1-2 months minimum. Don't act as if you're available all the time. Why is everybody trying to act like some sort of dating robot? To be perfectly honest I could honestly see robots replacing human beings when everybody tries to emulate everybody in behaviour, instead of being themselves, which was supposed to be the fundamental idea of seeing people, be yourself with each other and see if you are compatible. People are so caught up in trying to seem like the perfect person and following all these stupid rules and games just to get someone to like them, and seem to forget that's not who they are. It's one of the reasons I've now learned from my previous encounter that I'm not made for it.
jtaime Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 I can honestly say I have never faced a flake out like that. Maybe it's an american thing? I agree with you.. I have dated and been in a few relationships previously.. we usually communicate if anything is bothering us, and if I dont want see the person again, then I'll tell them.. I find even if we cant go any further, we are still friends! Same goes for relationships.
Trialbyfire Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 I think it really boils down to this common courtesy. It seems most of us are blaming technology, but in part, it's how people uses it that shows what type of people they are. Exactly. Technology is only a tool.
Jersey Shortie Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 I find this trend disturbing and sad, but it is one way to weed out the weak-minded, those who don't have their own strong guiding values. My answer to it is to "be the change I want to see in the world" as much as possible. Ruby, Ghandi. I have that little qoute written in my journal to remind me of it. This, however, turns the supposed infinite availability into a massive fraud. What good is it to be surrounded by attractive people if most of them are not even capable of taking another person seriously? Excellent observation. This is one issue that doesn't span on gender over the other. Not only will people use technology to break up with partners (especially people you have been dating seriously for a number of years which baffles me), they also use it to ask you out on dates. Call me old fashioned but I like when a man wants to put in the effort to call me and verbally talk to me instead of texting me "Hey, U Free 2nite?". It's a little frustrating. And wrapped up in common disrespect, lack of kindness to someone else, also a certain degree of emotional stuntedness that makes us act more like we are in elementary school passing notes then adults that will infact at times have to deal with other people's more complicated emotions. Sometimes I think I had more mature dating experiences in high school and early college when cell phones and technology were not as ingrained as they are now. That was only about 10 years ago!
samspade Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 It seems the more and more I date, the more often I notice a disturbing trend. People don't sit down with one another face to face for a breakup talk anymore. They either stop calling, stop texting or emailing or just ignore all-together. On a less severe note, even if the relationship is not so serious, people do not often go on second dates at the first sign of a flaw. It's always, next please...with no regard to the previous...and often no phone call to inform the other as to why. I can't deny I have been guilty of this a time or two also, but what is it? Do you think its a generational thing? A lack of attachment and options abound? Perhaps it is generational, but look at it this way - these people are doing you a favor by not wasting your time. Also, I think you can tell pretty early if a spark is there or not. People have things to do and places to go.
utterer of lies Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 Ruby, Ghandi. I have that little qoute written in my journal to remind me of it. Excellent observation. This is one issue that doesn't span on gender over the other. Not only will people use technology to break up with partners (especially people you have been dating seriously for a number of years which baffles me), they also use it to ask you out on dates. Call me old fashioned but I like when a man wants to put in the effort to call me and verbally talk to me instead of texting me "Hey, U Free 2nite?". It's a little frustrating. And wrapped up in common disrespect, lack of kindness to someone else, also a certain degree of emotional stuntedness that makes us act more like we are in elementary school passing notes then adults that will infact at times have to deal with other people's more complicated emotions. Sometimes I think I had more mature dating experiences in high school and early college when cell phones and technology were not as ingrained as they are now. That was only about 10 years ago! Indeed. Everything was so much better when you were younger, especially other people.
RedAlert Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 Its something I've noticed as well, and its the thing I hate most as someone who likes honesty and for people to "be straight up", to me its a sign of cowardice and an unwillingness to face up to the situation. Those who have flaked out on me have regretted it, as I can guarantee you they will have no peace as I ensure their level of character is known by all in town. And you guys have had some very interesting theories thus far: 1) Use of technology dwindling interpersonal communication skills 2) Throw away culture 3) Permissive parenting resulting in narcissitic attitudes. 4) Availability of texts, emails makes it just plain easier to avoid uncomfortable conversations. I would agree with these as the root causes of this behaviour, especially a lack of interpersonal communication skills and a throwaway culture in which anything goes.
utterer of lies Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 Its something I've noticed as well, and its the thing I hate most as someone who likes honesty and for people to "be straight up", to me its a sign of cowardice and an unwillingness to face up to the situation. Some people are weak and afraid to be open, because it might lead to confrontation. Those who have flaked out on me have regretted it, as I can guarantee you they will have no peace as I ensure their level of character is known by all in town. So you bad-mouth them wherever you go?
RedAlert Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 Some people are weak and afraid to be open, because it might lead to confrontation. Rubbish. Some people don't want a confrontation, in which they know they cannot support their reasons for taking the action they are planning (ie: leaving). So you bad-mouth them wherever you go? Indeed and ensure that wherever I enter, they leave upon my arrival. I'm open to confrontation but instead the individual just keeps on running away.
utterer of lies Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 Rubbish. Some people don't want a confrontation, in which they know they cannot support their reasons for taking the action they are planning (ie: leaving). But that's exactly it. They don't owe you anything. She should tell you the reason (because of common decency), but she does not have to.
RedAlert Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 But that's exactly it. They don't owe you anything. She should tell you the reason (because of common decency), but she does not have to. Of course, and she knew the consequences before she made a move but still did it, despite also knowing that I had a lot of emotion invested in the relationship. In the end of the day I lost out for whatever reason, and I've ensured that things were made difficult for her in retaliation. Criticism and ostracizing of dissenters is my "modus operandi" and so I saw no reason to apply it towards someone who felt they could pull the plug without so much as a word.
utterer of lies Posted July 28, 2009 Posted July 28, 2009 Of course, and she knew the consequences before she made a move but still did it, despite also knowing that I had a lot of emotion invested in the relationship. So? In the end of the day I lost out for whatever reason, and I've ensured that things were made difficult for her in retaliation. What a perfectly sensible and grown-up response.
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