Thadd's Guide to Myth and Fact in Romantic Relationships

[Thaddeus]

In the short time that I've been on this site, I've seen many, many myths about romatic relationships propogated.

 

Well, I'm a big fan of reality, a big fan of seeing the world as it is, not as we wish it would be. And reality is that which continues to exist even if we don't believe it.

 

It's not always easy to tease apart the reality from the myth. We are so inundated with Hollywood movies and romance novels and porn and Hallmark cards and the romance industry that reality has become clouded.

 

With that in mind, I've scribbled together a few myth/fact lines to assist those that might be having difficulty defining the difference between the two. These are based on both my personal observations gathered from my 50 years on the planet, and good old-fashioned research.

 

So, without further explanation, I present to you:

 

Thadd's Guide to Myth and Fact in Romantic Relationships

 

Myth: Everyone has a soul mate

 

Fact: There's no such thing as a soul mate.

 

Myth: Trust your feelings, because feelings never lie.

 

Fact: Feelings lie all the time. They're not to be discounted, but actual evidence has to be taken into consideration as well.

 

Myth: Once a cheater, always a cheater.

 

Fact: While it IS true that the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, human beings do learn and grow. There IS such a thing as progress. It's just that one might be taking a higher risk while getting involved with someone who's cheated in the past, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to happen again.

 

Myth: If he won't marry me, he doesn't really love me.

 

Fact: Men generally see marriage as a social and financial contract and a stage in their life, not primarily a love match. Yes, love enters into it, but it's not the primary driver for a man. And it doesn't mean he's any less committed to you, it just means that he's not interested in that social contract.

 

Myth: She's got some issues, but with my love and care I can change her.

 

Fact: Everyone's got issues of some sort, but people have to sort them out fo themselves. Acting as someone's savior is a sure-fire way to relationship distress.

 

Myth: If I have sex on the first or second date, he'll think I'm easy.

 

Fact: Depends entirely on the people involved.

 

Myth: Assertive women turn men off.

 

Fact: Assertive women are, alas, few and far between, so what you might find when a woman is assertive - especially sexually - with a man is more surprise than anything else. But a good, confident man appreciates a woman who knows what she wants and isn't afraid to go after it.

 

Myth: A woman should never ask a man out.

 

Fact: See the bit about "assertive women turn men off."

 

Myth: A woman should make a man chase her.

 

Fact: A good man does not chase. Chasers chase. And chasers aren't interested in relationships, they're interested in chasing.

 

Myth: Women dress up provocatively when they go to clubs and whatnot to impress men.

 

Fact: Women dress up provocatively so they can out-do other women. Competition between women is a blood sport, but it has precious little to do with what men think.

 

Myth: If a man is interested in me, he won't look at other girls.

 

Fact: Men are biologically and evolutionarily hard-wired to look at other women. Now, whether a man takes initiative on what he sees is a different matter altogether, but if a man has working eyes he's going to look. It doesn't mean his love for you is waning, it's just a part of a man's biological imperative.

 

Myth: Porn is always bad and it denigrates women.

 

Fact: Personally, I'm not a big fan of porn, but the fact is that some couples use it to spice up their sex lives, and both male and female, single and attached, use it to relieve their pent-up sexual frustrations. As for denigrating women, much of the porn industry is RUN by women. As long as it doesn't involve minors, one-sided humiliation or pain, live and let live. To each their own.

 

Myth: Sex isn't that important in a relationship.

 

Fact: Sex is the primary driver in a relationship. When sex is withheld, the relationship will begin to falter. It all starts between the sheets. All of it.

 

Myth: The children in a family should come first.

 

Fact: All the relationships in the household start with the relationship between partners; everything flows from there. If the child is the central focus of the household, that will drive a wedge between the couple which will cause tension, and that increases the risk of raising a narcissistic child. And gawd knows there are enough narcissists in the world already!

 

Myth: All women are gold-diggers.

 

Fact: Some women are, yes. But most just want what we all want: A strong, loving relationship.

 

Myth: A pre-nup poisons the relationship because it puts the focus on money, not on one's love for the other.

 

Fact: In today's world, and especially when there are children involved from a previous relationship, a pre-nup is a financial necessity. It protects both parties in the event of marriage breakdown, which runs currently at about 50% (depending where you live). Only the foolish and deluded ("Oh, our love is so strong that divorce will never happen to us!") enter into marriage without a pre-nup.

 

Myth: I'm currently friend-zoned, but if I show him/her what a good person I am maybe they'll see me romantically.

 

Fact: The friend-zone is an inescapable dungeon. No amount of cajoling or manipulation, no matter how well-intended, will get you out of it.

 

Myth: When you meet that special someone, you'll "just know."

 

Fact: Meeting that "special someone" is going to take time, effort and energy. There's no magical moment when you'll "just know." You may find yourself immensely attracted to someone but that doesn't mean that they're that "special someone," it just means that you have drives and urges and circumstances have come together in a certain way.

 

Myth: Money doesn't matter.

 

Fact: Money matters. A lot. The more you have, the easier you'll find it to find someone. The old saying, "Nothing succeeds like success" holds true. That doesn't mean that money is everything, but the fact is that women are attracted more to someone who has resources and has proven to be a good provider than one who is not.

 

Myth: Men are intimiated by women who have money.

 

Fact: Some men are, but those aren't the men who are worth having.

 

Let the fray begin!

[Kamille]

I agree with most of what you posted - maybe not on some of the nuances.

 

But I'm writing to say, Thaddeus, I'm really glad you joined LS. I find your advice insightful and a lot more grounded then a lot of the "rules" and "myths" that circulate around here. I especially like you pointing out that by making a man chase, you will attract chaser! Love it.

 

I feel what we both have in common is that we both believe that most people change, grow and enter the dating world with mostly good intentions (to offer love and be loved in return).

 

I often find frustrated here because it seems to me people assume dating is a war of the sexes. And that everyone is out there to take advantage of you.

[Thaddeus]

But I'm writing to say, Thaddeus, I'm really glad you joined LS. I find your advice insightful and a lot more grounded then a lot of the "rules" and "myths" that circulate around here.

Sincerely, thank you.

[tanbark813]

Normally it annoys me when new members write "guides" but that was a good list.

[grogster]

Great post, Thad. In a refreshing turn for a male Shacker, your observations appear experience based as opposed to gender-ideological. You don't appear to have a "gender" axe to grind.

 

Of late, I've seen too much of that on here.

 

Again, nice job.

[Lizzie60]

I also agree with most of your list..

[lora22]

Fact: Men generally see marriage as a social and financial contract and a stage in their life, not primarily a love match. Yes, love enters into it, but it's not the primary driver for a man. And it doesn't mean he's any less committed to you, it just means that he's not interested in that social contract.

 

Myth: A pre-nup poisons the relationship because it puts the focus on money, not on one's love for the other.

 

Fact: In today's world, and especially when there are children involved from a previous relationship, a pre-nup is a financial necessity. It protects both parties in the event of marriage breakdown, which runs currently at about 50% (depending where you live). Only the foolish and deluded ("Oh, our love is so strong that divorce will never happen to us!") enter into marriage without a pre-nup.

 

Myth: Money doesn't matter.

 

Fact: Money matters. A lot. The more you have, the easier you'll find it to find someone. The old saying, "Nothing succeeds like success" holds true. That doesn't mean that money is everything, but the fact is that women are attracted more to someone who has resources and has proven to be a good provider than one who is not.

 

A couple first thoughts upon reading these:

- "In love" lasts up to 2 years - it's a biochemical reaction. When being "in love" became the primary reason for getting married (as opposed to a social contract that benefits all parties involved), the divorce rate shot up to 50% - because not being in love became a reason to call it quits.

 

- Sure money matters - sometimes in and of itself because of the "provider" aspect - however, I also think that often having money is associated with having ambition and drive, being hardworking, etc., all of which are admirable characteristics, IMO.

[Lyssa]

I thought it was going to be one boring, typical post (not that your other posts were boring!) but it was actually interesting!

 

Glad you took the time to post it and I hope some people will get something out of it.

[Taramere]

I'm only arguing because I'm tired of the "great list, I agree" posts. Aren't you?

 

Myth: If he won't marry me, he doesn't really love me.

 

Fact: Men generally see marriage as a social and financial contract and a stage in their life, not primarily a love match. Yes, love enters into it, but it's not the primary driver for a man. And it doesn't mean he's any less committed to you, it just means that he's not interested in that social contract.

 

Agree, but would add that if a woman really wants to get married she should proceed on the assumption that a man who doesn't want to marry her doesn't love her. Taking the Occam's razor approach can sometimes make decisions and their outcomes less painless....even if the truth is more complicated.

 

Myth: If I have sex on the first or second date, he'll think I'm easy.

 

Fact: Depends entirely on the people involved.

 

Man A might think she's easy, Man B might think "this is the one" and book couple tickets to a naked swingers' one week long festival in Ibiza.

 

Myth: Assertive women turn men off.

 

Fact: Assertive women are, alas, few and far between, so what you might find when a woman is assertive - especially sexually - with a man is more surprise than anything else. But a good, confident man appreciates a woman who knows what she wants and isn't afraid to go after it.

 

Men get an ego boost from being chased as much as anyone else does.

 

Myth: A woman should never ask a man out.

 

Fact: See the bit about "assertive women turn men off."

 

See answer above

 

Myth: Women dress up provocatively when they go to clubs and whatnot to impress men.

 

Fact: Women dress up provocatively so they can out-do other women. Competition between women is a blood sport, but it has precious little to do with what men think.

 

If I dress provocatively, it's because I'm hoping to get lucky.

 

Myth: If a man is interested in me, he won't look at other girls.

 

Fact: Men are biologically and evolutionarily hard-wired to look at other women. Now, whether a man takes initiative on what he sees is a different matter altogether, but if a man has working eyes he's going to look. It doesn't mean his love for you is waning, it's just a part of a man's biological imperative.

 

If a man is interested in you, he'll want you to swing with other girls.

[Trialbyfire]

I'm arguing certain points because everyone else is too lazy to do so!

 

Beyond that, I strongly agree with many of your points, albeit not necessarily agreeing with your "facts"!

 

Myth: Trust your feelings, because feelings never lie.

 

Fact: Feelings lie all the time. They're not to be discounted, but actual evidence has to be taken into consideration as well.

 

Trust your gut instincts because they don't lie. I agree that your feelings lie, in that people can ir-rationalize anything!

 

Myth: Once a cheater, always a cheater.

 

Fact: While it IS true that the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, human beings do learn and grow. There IS such a thing as progress. It's just that one might be taking a higher risk while getting involved with someone who's cheated in the past, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it's going to happen again.

 

Trauma affects change in people. If the cheater hasn't experienced trauma or is willing to fix themselves, once a cheater, always a cheater!

 

Myth: If he won't marry me, he doesn't really love me.

 

Fact: Men generally see marriage as a social and financial contract and a stage in their life, not primarily a love match. Yes, love enters into it, but it's not the primary driver for a man. And it doesn't mean he's any less committed to you, it just means that he's not interested in that social contract.

 

From the men I've dated in the past, most don't generally see marriage as a social and financial contract. But then, I lean towards romantic men who have a streak of pragmatism.

 

Myth: A woman should never ask a man out.

 

Fact: See the bit about "assertive women turn men off."

 

I believe a woman who's attracted to alphas, shouldn't ask a man out. Alphas enjoy the hunt. What a woman needs to do, is to filter out alphas who only enjoy the hunt and aren't satisfied with the kill!

 

Myth: A woman should make a man chase her.

 

Fact: A good man does not chase. Chasers chase. And chasers aren't interested in relationships, they're interested in chasing.

 

Umm...b/s. Good men chase as well as bad men. It's reliant on how you view the chase. If it's a bunch of push/pull games on either or both sides, I agree. If it's the wooing process, I'll have to disagree vehemently!

 

Myth: The children in a family should come first.

 

Fact: All the relationships in the household start with the relationship between partners; everything flows from there. If the child is the central focus of the household, that will drive a wedge between the couple which will cause tension, and that increases the risk of raising a narcissistic child. And gawd knows there are enough narcissists in the world already!

 

It's factual that children come first sometimes, reliant on the situation. Would you let a hungry baby continue crying, while the two of you are having sex? Ick...

 

Myth: When you meet that special someone, you'll "just know."

 

Fact: Meeting that "special someone" is going to take time, effort and energy. There's no magical moment when you'll "just know." You may find yourself immensely attracted to someone but that doesn't mean that they're that "special someone," it just means that you have drives and urges and circumstances have come together in a certain way.

 

If you're talking about "love at first sight", I couldn't agree more. If you take into account, the strong physical attraction combined with compatible values, goals and personalities, I vehemently disagree with you!

[carhill]

Nice guide Thadd. Well thought out and succinct. Are you an accountant?

 

TBF, regarding Thadd's assertions regarding adult-centric families over child-centric families, I believe he is speaking in global terms rather than specific ones. Of course the crying, hungry, helpless baby gets fed. As an example from my personal life, my female friend's newborn grandson has a liver problem and she dropped everything, including nursing school and her job, to fly across the country and be with her daughter during this very difficult time. That's a perspective I wholeheartedly support. When that boy, hopefully healthy, is a teenager and wants a car, he can get a job and buy it himself. If he needs to get somewhere, he can find his own way, if mom and dad have plans. Mom and dad don't exist to service him. He is no longer a helpless baby in a hospital. They service and prioritize each other. It's a philosophy which is instilled from the earliest moments of life. The child is important but not the center of the family.

 

I'm wired differently from most men, but largely I identify with and support Thadd's assertions. The ones which don't apply to me, in my 50 years on the planet, I can accept that they do apply, in general, to most men. That's why it's a *guide*

 

Since I haven't yet done so, I'd like to welcome Thadd and thank him for his thoughtful and cogent postings. Much appreciated

[Trialbyfire]

carhill, when a couple have children, it becomes a family unit. There will be times where the child(ren)'s needs come first and a time where the adults' needs come first. It's a matter of not invalidating anyone but making family based decisions.

 

Btw, my belief system stems from ensuring that you're capable of providing all the benefits to children, previous to having them. When you provide all the benefits but instill personality responsibility and work=benefits ethics in them, all tied up in a safe and loving environment, sky's the limit for the children!

[carhill]

Yep, I know. We make the best of plans and then life happens. As much as we want to control every nuance and plan for every eventuality, it still happens.

 

Wonderous

[OpenBook]

Well done Thadd!! I agree with most of the list; just had a few comments on things that jumped out at me...

 

Fact: Men generally see marriage as a social and financial contract and a stage in their life, not primarily a love match. Yes, love enters into it, but it's not the primary driver for a man.

 

My jaw dropped when I read this one. FINALLY somebody actually put it in writing!! I've had some rather heated exchanges with (married female) posters on this board about that - they vehemently disagree!! I wonder if most MM actually do think that way about marriage... and if they thought differently when they first got married ("I'm so madly in love with her and I want to live the rest of my days with her!!") - and then changed their minds as time wore on???

 

Myth: If I have sex on the first or second date, he'll think I'm easy.

 

Fact: Depends entirely on the people involved.

 

Ain't that the truth!! I do know that for a woman, the key is to remain emotionally cool, easygoing, and independent-minded with a guy, no matter when they start doing it. I have never met a man who didn't really, really appreciate this attitude... ESPECIALLY after we've had sex. I think it has something to do with "owning your own sexuality"???

 

Myth: Assertive women turn men off.

 

Fact: Assertive women are, alas, few and far between, so what you might find when a woman is assertive - especially sexually - with a man is more surprise than anything else. But a good, confident man appreciates a woman who knows what she wants and isn't afraid to go after it.

 

I have found this to be partially true, I guess. But the really smart, A-list, top-drawer women know when to be assertive and when to be receptive with a man. It's an art that's fast becoming lost, I'm afraid. It doesn't come instinctively for me; I've always had to work at it, and continue to make mistakes to this day. But my mother has it in abundance!! A total natural, like it's embedded in her DNA or something. Kept my dad mesmerized for 54 years of marriage, until his death.

[Els]

I'm not actually a fan of 'This is truth and this is myth, fullstop' posts, since relationships are more of a personal thing than anything else, thus there really is almost no scientific evidence for 'proof' and everything really depends on the two (or more! ) people involved. However, I must say that despite that inherent shortcoming, I personally do agree with most of the items on the list, and think it's a nice change from the slew of misogynistic lists currently prevalent on LS.

 

Just a few that I'd like to comment on:

 

Myth: Everyone has a soul mate

 

Fact: There's no such thing as a soul mate.

 

People who have found theirs might beg to disagree with you. Regardless, that all depends on people's interpretation of the term. What exactly is a soul mate?

 

Myth: Sex isn't that important in a relationship.

 

Fact: Sex is the primary driver in a relationship. When sex is withheld, the relationship will begin to falter. It all starts between the sheets. All of it.

 

As someone who looooooooooooooves sex, I really must disagree with it. Again, that depends on the needs and wants of the two people within the relationship. For me, while sex is important, emotional and intellectual needs are more so. Actually, if ANY of the above 3 components falters, I believe a relationship cannot hold. Not just sex.

 

Myth: When you meet that special someone, you'll "just know."

 

Fact: Meeting that "special someone" is going to take time, effort and energy. There's no magical moment when you'll "just know." You may find yourself immensely attracted to someone but that doesn't mean that they're that "special someone," it just means that you have drives and urges and circumstances have come together in a certain way.

 

Disagree based on experience. Probably varies from person to person.

[kaiser2001]

I

 

Myth: I'm currently friend-zoned, but if I show him/her what a good person I am maybe they'll see me romantically.

 

Fact: The friend-zone is an inescapable dungeon. No amount of cajoling or manipulation, no matter how well-intended, will get you out of it.

 

 

Great list Thaddeus!! I especially liked this myth. I've tried numerous times to escape this prison and never once succeeded. Life means life in this context! (unless you happen to star in a Hollywood movie of course....)

[socialight]

thad, all I can say is "testify brother, testify!!"

[Sam Spade]

 

Myth: If he won't marry me, he doesn't really love me.

 

Fact: Men generally see marriage as a social and financial contract and a stage in their life, not primarily a love match. Yes, love enters into it, but it's not the primary driver for a man. And it doesn't mean he's any less committed to you, it just means that he's not interested in that social contract.

 

 

 

Yep, as a guy who has been pretty honest and straightforward with women all my life (i.e. never dated or hooked with one with a hidden agenda...) I feel that this point cannot be emphasized enough. From a guy's point perspective, a marriage adds absolutely nothing to the quality of the relationship with the woman (but certainly creates inconveniences and burdens). That's precisely why it is viewed by men in purely instrumental terms - i.e. as means to an end, such as starting a family, houshold., having kids etc. If a man does not feel that he is right there, in a stage of life where these things are towards the very top of his priority list, the thought of marriage will be pretty much an anathema - no matter how great the relationship with his woman.

 

Some of my friends are married - and with no exception, not a single one, they did not view it as a 'celebration of their love' :rolleyes:, as an end initself, but either as the logical thing to do before starting a family, or in they've dated for so long that they understood that they would soon need to get married or break up with the respective girl .

[HsMomma]

Yep, as a guy who has been pretty honest and straightforward with women all my life (i.e. never dated or hooked with one with a hidden agenda...) I feel that this point cannot be emphasized enough. From a guy's point perspective, a marriage adds absolutely nothing to the quality of the relationship with the woman (but certainly creates inconveniences and burdens). That's precisely why it is viewed by men in purely instrumental terms - i.e. as means to an end, such as starting a family, houshold., having kids etc. If a man does not feel that he is right there, in a stage of life where these things are towards the very top of his priority list, the thought of marriage will be pretty much an anathema - no matter how great the relationship with his woman.

 

Some of my friends are married - and with no exception, not a single one, they did not view it as a 'celebration of their love' :rolleyes:, as an end initself, but either as the logical thing to do before starting a family, or in they've dated for so long that they understood that they would soon need to get married or break up with the respective girl .

 

Ok, while I do agree with most of what Thadd posted, I have to say that the above post is just CRAP! I read it to my husband who laughed hysterically at it...we don't have any children together - when we got married, my daughter was 11. Signing on to be "Step-daddy" is a bit different than getting married to start a family, etc.

 

His response to your 2nd paragraph (and this is a direct quote): "I feel really sorry for this guy & all his married friends if the men didn't feel like their marriages were celebrations of love. Maybe I'm just super lucky, but all I wanted was to marry you (he was talking to me when he was saying these things) & spend the rest of our lives together. I wanted to shout it out to everybody that FINALLY I had found the perfect woman for me. If this Sam guy thinks that marriage adds nothing to quality of a relationship and brings nothing but inconvenience and burdens, then I say he's been hanging out with the wrong women."

 

Thought you all might like a bit of male perspective on this issue - I know I did!

[Sam Spade]

I understand why are you excited and giddy, but I would be saying the same things if my wife was reading me my post .

Also, it sounds like both of you are somewhat older, (unless you had your kid in college), in which case it makes sense that marriage could be a larger priority as such.

[HsMomma]

I understand why are you excited and giddy, but I would be saying the same things if my wife was reading me my post .

Also, it sounds like both of you are somewhat older, (unless you had your kid in college), in which case it makes sense that marriage could be a larger priority as such.

 

Giddy? Lord have mercy - I don't think I've actually been "giddy" since I was a teenager, but I do like the sound of that, Sam! Nah, my husband's a pretty straight shooter - he doesn't usually bother to pretty things up just to shelter my feelings (guess he knows I'm strong enough to take the truth!).

 

Yes, we are a bit older - I had my daughter at 30 & my husband is 10 years old than I, so yeah, the getting married thing was different for us than say someone in his or her 20's or 30's. Ironically enough, HE was the one who really wanted to get married - I resisted for a very long time. After dealing with my oh-so-NOT-wonderful exH, I couldn't imagine ever wanting to be married again. I'm glad my current hubby convinced me, though - kept me from turning into a cynical old bat with 27 cats, all named Fifi!

[Road To Joy]

Myth: Everyone has a soul mate

 

Fact: There's no such thing as a soul mate.

 

Amen! Finally someone agrees.

[Mary3]

Yep, I know. We make the best of plans and then life happens. As much as we want to control every nuance and plan for every eventuality, it still happens.

 

Wonderous

 

I love the way you write Carhill .........