Wife's Male Friend

[carhill]

What exactly is your affair boundary... is phone sex Ok?

 

I kinda draw the line at a married woman thrusting her pelvis into me while trying to extract a favor (true story), but the OP's boundaries might differ. I have a feeling he is a 'go with the flow' kinda guy, considering how he seems to have dismissed his past negative experiences with unfaithful women and has a pretty casual attitude about the current dynamic. Perhaps a middle ground between the two might be healthier, IDK.

[GorillaTheater]

But I think most married women know where the bounderies are, set them & keep them.

 

I was hoping you'd say something like that.

[Untouchable_Fire]

But is it possible for a woman to resent you for not being jealous enough? I don't want to push her in that direction either. Of course, it's one thing to be talking about a high school relationship as compared with a marriage and all the "entanglements" therein -- like kids and a house, etc.

 

Yes, that can make you look indifferent. Most women would like you to fight for them... and I don't mean fist fight another guy.

 

If you don't then your basically being permissive of an affair. She is going to feel like you don't care.

[angie2443]

..I don't think that married men can be JUST FRIENDS with woman - But I think most married women know where the bounderies are, set them & keep them.

 

I partly agree. I think women are more likely to know where bounderies should be. However, when there are emotions and attractions in the picture, those bounderies can fall away fast. If it was only men who couldn't "just be friends", there would be way fewer EA's.

[Owl]

Here's a thought...people don't suddenly "wake up" and find that they are engaged in an affair (although some may THINK that's what they did).

 

An emotional affair comes about via a PROCESS.

 

It's not instantly an affair, nor is there a 'single step' that converts it from a friendship to an affair.

 

It starts as an innocent friendship. There's probably some mutual attraction, but in the beginning, both parties typically observe good boundaries. That's what let's the friendship grow.

 

Then after a while, those boundaries slip. An "innocent" little flirty statement is dropped in...maybe blushed at and laughed about...but no "line" is drawn to stop it from happening again. At the same time, the conversations shift from "safe" topics like work and hobbies to slightly less safe ones...like the home life, personal likes and dislikes, etc...

 

Then the conversations slowly take on a different shift. Discussion about marital problems, even comparisons of marital issues and marital likes and dislikes come in. These are depressing conversations, so those fun little "flirty" statements come in more and more. And they're not only not rebuffed this time, they start occasionally going both ways.

 

Then they start really talking about taboo things. The flirty statements REALLY progress from being little things, to expressed desires. The talk about issues in the marriage start to shift..."Well, if I were with you, I'd certainly never...". Discussion about future hopes and dreams, feelings and desires and wants...shortcomings in their current marriage.

 

Finally, a confession is made. One or the other breaks down, and admits to the other that "my feelings for you have grown". BAM...the affair is off and running full steam now. Its only a matter of time (sometimes very little time) before it goes from this to a physical stage.

 

Look at this progression. See where there's very little change between one stage and the next, but by the time you get to the end, it's a full affair?

 

That's why CLEAR, HARDCORE boundaries are critical. So that you can IDENTIFY specific behaviors/topics/actions that should not be tolerated to PREVENT the affair.

 

Weak boundaries set the stage for a situation like I've described.

[angie2443]

Nothing has really changed, per se, except that they know eachother a lot better now than they did theen, obviously. I guess what I've been asking pretty much is "Am I nuts for not being more concerned?" When I was younger, I WAS jealous and paranoid when it came to my girlfriends and some did end up cheating on and/or dumping me. (Welcome to the club, right?) So, I know being like that doesn't help matters any. But is it possible for a woman to resent you for not being jealous enough? I don't want to push her in that direction either. Of course, it's one thing to be talking about a high school relationship as compared with a marriage and all the "entanglements" therein -- like kids and a house, etc.

 

 

I'm wondering how invested you are in your marriage. Also, do you think that your jealousy in your past relationships caused you to be cheated on?

 

I think a little jealousy is a good thing. It shows that you care and that you think your partner is attractive enough to be attractive to other men. If I was hanging out with a man other than my husband a lot, I would be hurt if he wasn't bothered by it just a little.

[confusedinkansas]

But is it possible for a woman to resent you for not being jealous enough?

 

Even though nothing happened with these two friends of mine - I wish my husband would have showed just a LITTLE jealousy. He showed NONE! Was indifferent / IS indifferent.

so, yes I think there is a line there - TOO jealous & possessive - vs. - indifferent & somewhat seeming "uncaring"

[angie2443]

It starts as an innocent friendship. There's probably some mutual attraction, but in the beginning, both parties typically observe good boundaries. That's what let's the friendship grow.

 

Then after a while, those boundaries slip. An "innocent" little flirty statement is dropped in...maybe blushed at and laughed about...but no "line" is drawn to stop it from happening again. At the same time, the conversations shift from "safe" topics like work and hobbies to slightly less safe ones...like the home life, personal likes and dislikes, etc..

.

 

This is why I feel that one of the bounderies needs to be limited time spent alone whith the friend in question. You can have great bounderies in regards to what you talk about or do with a friend. However, if you spend too much time alone with them, feelings can really start to grow and the bounderies will can start to disapear.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I'm wondering how invested you are in your marriage. Also, do you think that your jealousy in your past relationships caused you to be cheated on?

I think a little jealousy is a good thing. It shows that you care and that you think your partner is attractive enough to be attractive to other men. If I was hanging out with a man other than my husband a lot, I would be hurt if he wasn't bothered by it just a little.

 

Ladies, thank you for backing up my point!

 

Even though nothing happened with these two friends of mine - I wish my husband would have showed just a LITTLE jealousy. He showed NONE! Was indifferent / IS indifferent.

so, yes I think there is a line there - TOO jealous & possessive - & - indifferent & somewhat seeming "uncaring"

 

That bold part is a very important truth!

[Dexter Morgan]

Sorry, let me clarify -- any shopping/lunches they've done together has been pretty much work-related.

 

so far as you know. and it would seem that she is engaging in TOO MANY chummy interactions with a man she thinks is hot.

 

 

I have met him and his wife a few times. He makes their marriage sound a little iffy. My wife doesn't seem overly concerned about concealing their correspondence

 

neither did my wife with the guy I found out she was with. And I met him as well because he is an acquaintence of my xW's mother.

[CarrieT]

Obviously there is no black/white answer for this type of scenario. You are getting some "absolutely under no circumstances" answers which for someone like me, would absolutely never be possible.

 

I am in my mid-40s and have been close friends with several males for MANY years (in two cases, these are guys I have NEVER dated, but have known for several decades). They are JUST FRIENDS. I would never sleep with them but when they come to town, I spend time with them; have lunch, go to shows, etc.

 

When/If I become involved in a relationship, my prospective mate will have to understand that these are very old friends. Of course, I will introduce them and hope they get along. But if given a choice, I will pick the old friends as they have been in my life a lot longer and seen me through a lot of touch times.

[goose9]

Thanks for all your input. After reading all your posts and thinking things through a little bit, I've decided iIm probably not going to do anything different from what I've already been doing -- which is, basically, nothing. Imposing some sort of boundaries or whatever when nothing has happened seems too "parental" for me. Everyone knows the rules. I will deal with situations as they come up as opposed to hypothetical ones. Does she think he's attractive? Yes, I know she does. Does he like her? Yes, he sure seems to. Is there a chance that they will fall in love and decide they have to be together? I suppose, but the much greater chance is that they won't. At some point, you just have to trust the person you married. Besides, if someone cheats and leaves you, it must not have been a very good union to begin with. I do trust my wife -- it's just that this is a nice, tall, pretty good looking guy who seems to have lots more in common with my wife than I do. (I realize it's ridiculous, but I'm so paranoid about revealing identities on here that I purposely stay away from specifics.)

Perhaps to complicate your "analysis", let me add that I'm slightly concerned that she NEVER initiates sex and she will usually try to find any available excuse to avoid it (too early, too late, tired, the kids, etc -- the typical stuff). The sex we do end up having is actually pretty decent -- as far as both of us "reaching the promised land" but it's like she forgets this fact and each time we're back to square one. We do manage to have it about 2-3 times a month, which I know is more than some people on this forum, but that's still not really enough for me.

 

Anyway, thanks for listening. (and replying.)

[Phateless]

Goose, I feel for you buddy. The lack of sex to me is a big red flag. It doesn't inherently mean she's cheating, but something is definitely wrong if it's only 2 or 3 times per month.

 

I think you should sit her ass down and have a good talk about this. If she's a reasonable person she'll completely understand why you feel a bit threatened. I mean, COME ON, wouldn't anyone be able to understand how this can make a person insecure?

 

I trust you to approach this calmly and not make accusations.

 

If she gets defensive or angry at you mentioning anything, I'd say that it's time to look for signs of cheating.

[angie2443]

Thanks for all your input. After reading all your posts and thinking things through a little bit, I've decided iIm probably not going to do anything different from what I've already been doing -- which is, basically, nothing. Imposing some sort of boundaries or whatever when nothing has happened seems too "parental" for me. Everyone knows the rules. I will deal with situations as they come up as opposed to hypothetical ones. Does she think he's attractive? Yes, I know she does. Does he like her? Yes, he sure seems to. Is there a chance that they will fall in love and decide they have to be together? I suppose, but the much greater chance is that they won't. At some point, you just have to trust the person you married. Besides, if someone cheats and leaves you, it must not have been a very good union to begin with. I do trust my wife -- it's just that this is a nice, tall, pretty good looking guy who seems to have lots more in common with my wife than I do. (I realize it's ridiculous, but I'm so paranoid about revealing identities on here that I purposely stay away from specifics.)

Perhaps to complicate your "analysis", let me add that I'm slightly concerned that she NEVER initiates sex and she will usually try to find any available excuse to avoid it (too early, too late, tired, the kids, etc -- the typical stuff). The sex we do end up having is actually pretty decent -- as far as both of us "reaching the promised land" but it's like she forgets this fact and each time we're back to square one. We do manage to have it about 2-3 times a month, which I know is more than some people on this forum, but that's still not really enough for me.

 

Anyway, thanks for listening. (and replying.)

 

You're comming accross as bieng very nonchalant about your relationship to me. Maybe I'm reading to much into this, but it seems like your not too concerned about what happens in your relationship. If that works for you and your wife, though, then I guess your doing the right thing.

 

By the way, I once felt the same way about bounderies. Experience has changed my thinking a bit. Now, the way I see it is that I can't tell my husband what to do, but I do get to decide what kind of relationship I want to be in. This requires honesty from both of us. I have to be honest and say that I can't be in a relationship in which my partner has friendships that I feel threaten our relationship. My husband has to be honest and tell me if this boundery is acceptable to him. So far, it's worked for us.

[Owl]

I could have written your post, five and a half years ago.

 

I too hated the idea of "policing" my wife. I felt that a good husband should TRUST his wife, regardless of what insecurities I might have about her actions.

 

After 17 years of marriage, I shouldn't have any reason to doubt her, right?

 

I mean...what kind of husband doesn't trust his wife?

 

It was a great idea...and it absolutely led her into her affair with a man she met online.

 

Your gut is telling you that you have a reason to doubt your trust in her, or otherwise you wouldn't have posted your question on this site to begin with. That, in itself, is enough that you should seriously stop and consider exactly what is triggering your feeling on this.

 

I wish you luck...who knows, you might be right, and there's absolutely nothing to worry about here at all.

 

But all the advice from all the responders to your thread has told you that there likely is.

 

Good luck to you...I hope that our fears all turn out to be unfounded.

[SRV]

Perhaps to complicate your "analysis", let me add that I'm slightly concerned that she NEVER initiates sex and she will usually try to find any available excuse to avoid it (too early, too late, tired, the kids, etc -- the typical stuff). The sex we do end up having is actually pretty decent -- as far as both of us "reaching the promised land" but it's like she forgets this fact and each time we're back to square one. We do manage to have it about 2-3 times a month, which I know is more than some people on this forum, but that's still not really enough for me.

 

Anyway, thanks for listening. (and replying.)

 

Not to raise any alarms, but the statement above is somewhat telling.

 

You need to start having your wife spend more time with you to bond, reconnect and reignite your marraige, and have her minimize the time she is spending with her so-called friend or you might be looking at your marriage slip away right before your eyes. Be procative before it slips from within your grasp.

 

We just don't want to see you here couple of weeks or months from now telling us that your wife gave you the "I love you, but not in love" speech.

[Dexter Morgan]

don't say we didn't warn ya

[Reggie]

Even though nothing happened with these two friends of mine - I wish my husband would have showed just a LITTLE jealousy. He showed NONE! Was indifferent / IS indifferent.

so, yes I think there is a line there - TOO jealous & possessive - vs. - indifferent & somewhat seeming "uncaring"

 

Jealousy is a tremendously uncomfortable emotion to have. I question whether anyone that has a desire for his or her partner to feel this discomfort really loves or cares for the person. It's like saying I wish my partner had some pretty good emotional pain over my inappropriate behavior.

Having this desire to see one's partner suffer is callus and also shows a fair amount of insecurity re one's desirability.

[confusedinkansas]

Jealousy is a tremendously uncomfortable emotion to have. I question whether anyone that has a desire for his or her partner to feel this discomfort really loves or cares for the person. It's like saying I wish my partner had some pretty good emotional pain over my inappropriate behavior.

Having this desire to see one's partner suffer is callus and also shows a fair amount of insecurity re one's desirability.

 

It's not that I wanted to see his discomfort - not that at all. As I said in my post - A LITTLE jealousy - even kidding around might have been just a smidge nice. He's just not the jealous type. Or maybe because he knew there was a 0% chance anything would happen with those two guys.

[Reggie]

Well, CK, what would seeing some jealousy have meant to you? Why would you want to see some? It is a bad feeling to be jealous.

[confusedinkansas]

Well, CK, what would seeing some jealousy have meant to you? Why would you want to see some? It is a bad feeling to be jealous.

 

At the time......I looked at his indifference as not loving me. So, I guess that if he were a LITTLE jealous - I'd have thought "Oh he cares"

And really, there's nothing wrong with being jealous - It is not a horrible emotion - A lot of people feel it from time to time.

[Reggie]

I know of no one that feels jealousy is pleasant. It is a feeling of insecurity and anxiety and who wants his or her loved one to feel insecure and anxious? I would think that if you wanted to know if your spouse cares about you, the healthiest thing to do would be to ask.

Lots of people feel all types of different painful emotions. The number of people feeling them does not diminish the level of discomfort.

[Dexter Morgan]

It's not that I wanted to see his discomfort - not that at all. As I said in my post - A LITTLE jealousy - even kidding around might have been just a smidge nice. He's just not the jealous type.

 

or, in my experience, someone that isn't the least bit jealous is out of reason that they don't care and don't care what happens.

 

 

Or maybe because he knew there was a 0% chance anything would happen with those two guys.

 

0% chance? there is never a 0% chance with someone that has cheated before and has proven that they are more than well capable of it.

[Dexter Morgan]

At the time......I looked at his indifference as not loving me. So, I guess that if he were a LITTLE jealous - I'd have thought "Oh he cares"

And really, there's nothing wrong with being jealous - It is not a horrible emotion - A lot of people feel it from time to time.

 

this would be the one thing in which I agree with you on.

[Dexter Morgan]

I know of no one that feels jealousy is pleasant. It is a feeling of insecurity and anxiety and who wants his or her loved one to feel insecure and anxious?

 

well, not entirely reg. its like me. I don't consider myself jealous. I'm a confident guy, even after what I went through with a cheating wife.

 

For example, a woman I dated would get hit on by a guy, she didn't exactly flirt, but was very friendly. It didn't bother me, but I said something like, "cute, wasn't he?". She said, "not as cute as you"...and my reply was..."uh huh"...but with a grin.

 

I let her know that I notice things, but that I'm not dwelling on it or does it eat me up in the least.