Is it me or are women just extremely shallow?

[burning 4 revenge]

To use a female analogy of something similar, some women moan and bitch about their breast size being what stops men from being attracted. That's bunk, just like it's bunk that men under 6' aren't attractive to women.

 

Once again, this falls into the "no one is universally attractive". So, shuck the crap, improve at core/environment if need be and play to your strengths.

 

It's a numbers game for everyone. Sooner or later, you're going find a match.

yeah but is it really all just about finding a match?

 

i dont think its that simple

[Trialbyfire]

yeah but is it really all just about finding a match?

 

i dont think its that simple

You've failed to take into account the portion of my post that includes improving self or environment. In many cases, self-improvement is acceptance that self isn't universally attractive.

[Taramere]

Thats pretty insightful as usual. I think I see something of myself and many men I know in your ex bf

 

So do you think that makes handsome men potentially better human beings?

 

Perhaps..

 

Not necessarily. Tall, handsome men can be as prone to anyone else is to personality disorders and misogyny. But perhaps they're less likely to have ancient insecurities that they harbour - and be driven, by them, to the kind of irrational and unfair vengefulness that can destroy relationships and friendships.

[GoodOnPaper]

Not necessarily. Tall, handsome men can be as prone to anyone else is to personality disorders and misogyny. But perhaps they're less likely to have ancient insecurities that they harbour - and be driven, by them, to the kind of irrational and unfair vengefulness that can destroy relationships and friendships.

 

That's because they receive more external validation -- such as women hurling themselves at them.

[tanbark813]

To the OP: I think the attitude and anti-socialness are a greater hindrance than your height.

 

Man, I read through posts like this and think of 5'7" or 5'8" as tall, relatively speaking.

[carhill]

A solid plan and I endorse it.

If the OP can take this from rant to reflection, and focus on his goals and aspirations, even if only one small step each day, I think he'll find, one day soon, that people like his workmate will be the ones intimidated by him (and his success with women). I see too much validation coming from without instead of within here. He's young; he'll learn

[Taramere]

That's because they receive more external validation -- such as women hurling themselves at them.

 

Well, probably. I go with what TBF said re personal improvement. That a lot hinges on people being able to accept themselves as not being universally attractive.

 

I said earlier that most men aren't going to find themselves in the position where women are throwing themselves at them....unless they become famous (and get the usual celebrity groupies) or wealthy (and have shameless gold diggers throwing themselves at them).

 

Have people become so consumed by celebrity culture that they're finding it impossible to accept that not being treated like a superstar by the opposite sex doesn't automatically equate with being a loser? Is it getting to the stage where people need psychotherapy to help them come to terms with not being exceptionally beautiful?

[GoodOnPaper]

Well, probably. I go with what TBF said re personal improvement. That a lot hinges on people being able to accept themselves as not being universally attractive.

 

True, but there's also the implication that you're improving yourself just to try and meet someone else's standards -- I've found that that makes for poor motivation.

 

I think a lot of the OP's frustration comes from always relinquishing control of the attraction game -- he just wants anyone of reasonable attractiveness to show a superficial interest in him. (I understand that feeling as well.) I'd suggest that the OP think about this quip I once read -- "date a woman because she's cool, not because she's hot" -- then view talking to and getting to know women as learning what makes them cool (or not-so-cool). Then he claims some ownership in the attraction game -- or at the very least, he has something more positive to do when these women come to the pharmacy . . .

 

I said earlier that most men aren't going to find themselves in the position where women are throwing themselves at them....unless they become famous (and get the usual celebrity groupies) or wealthy (and have shameless gold diggers throwing themselves at them).

 

Have people become so consumed by celebrity culture that they're finding it impossible to accept that not being treated like a superstar by the opposite sex doesn't automatically equate with being a loser? Is it getting to the stage where people need psychotherapy to help them come to terms with not being exceptionally beautiful?

 

Maybe. I think at the heart of this is wanting to be able to trigger intense (positive) emotional responses. It's depressing when you don't think you are capable of this.

[Trialbyfire]

Self-improvement is a no-lose game. Create your own bar and keep bumping it up a notch or ten notches, personality reliant, every time you meet it. If you're not willing to self-improve, you're going stagnant and boring, in a major hurry.

[sally4sara]

Hmm let me start off by saying im a 21 year old male

 

This statement implies you have no basis for comparison as you do not date men and therefore cannot know if it is only women, moreso women, or sometimes women being shallow. If you dated men and women, you might be able to compare the people you have dated to each other and say which of them was extremely shallow.

 

who has never had a real girlfriend. Ive hooked up with a couple of girls on the rebound, been ona couple of dates, but never a real , steady girlfriend.

 

I work at a retail pharmacy store in a quiet neighborhood where there are more elderly people than average. I am on register a lot of times and people are generally friendly, make small talk etc. You'd think this is a perfect way to meet girls, but not so.

 

First of all I am always forced to work right next to this guy who is everything I'm not. He is 6'3 (compared to my 5'7), rather handsome (compared to my average),

 

You sound shallow because you are doing to yourself, with this statement, what you think the women are doing to you. Comparing your exterior to that of another exterior that you've already judged to be "better" than your own.

 

If YOU cannot find something worthy about yourself, why are you declaring women to be the shallow ones?

[BOLTON33]

Taramere makes some great points, a lot of the guys here make some great points. Thanks for the insight, and also thank you for not babying me and sheltering me from the truth. I really get tired when I am looking for real advice and explanations and instead hear the same old tire cliches about beauty being on the outside and omg confidence alone can make you more attractive etc etc.

 

This statement implies you have no basis for comparison as you do not date men and therefore cannot know if it is only women, moreso women, or sometimes women being shallow. If you dated men and women, you might be able to compare the people you have dated to each other and say which of them was extremely shallow.

[/Quote]

 

Generally speaking, men are more lenient than women. Most men are horrified at the idea of sharing their woman with another man. Most men would also rather date an OK girl over waiting their whole lives for the super hot girl who will never even look at them.

 

Women on the other hand always feel they deserve what they don't even bring to the table. Fat girls want to date the lean guys, short girls only want 6'2 and taller, average looking girls only want very handsome, lower middle class girls only want the wall street guy, and etc etc. Western society has taught women from early on that they are all princesses and all deserve "Right One" which is always a dark haired, very tall, very good looking guy firefighter with a goldman sachs trust to his name.

 

All I ask is for women who look like me, who have my personality, who are generally perfect matches for me....to date me. Is this so crazy? People say "lower your standards" when I say I don't find obese and very ugly women attractive and generally prefer to date my own race, yet why is it so ridiculous for me to want to date someone who brings exactly what I bring to the table?????

 

Probably because women in America are assumed to be superior to men...just for having tits and vaginas. We live in a anti-male society.

 

 

You sound shallow because you are doing to yourself, with this statement, what you think the women are doing to you. Comparing your exterior to that of another exterior that you've already judged to be "better" than your own.

 

If YOU cannot find something worthy about yourself, why are you declaring women to be the shallow ones? [/Quote]

 

Oh please. I don't think he is better than me, but for sure most women do, just judging by appearance alone. ANd don't lie and tell me it's about the inside or beauty is in the eye of the beholder because you would too.

 

I find many things worthy about myself, but it's impossible to have much stake in your own self-confidence with dating when nobody female ever has anything nice to say about you or acts like your completely invisible as soon as a better looking guy who has already been taken shows up. I get really pissed off when women ask my friend about how he's doing in school, how his father is, how everything is, and yet never ask me a single thing, if you don't look a certain way most women under 40 don't even consider you to be human.

[sally4sara]

Generally speaking, men are more lenient than women. Most men are horrified at the idea of sharing their woman with another man. Most men would also rather date an OK girl over waiting their whole lives for the super hot girl who will never even look at them.

 

Women on the other hand always feel they deserve what they don't even bring to the table.

 

And other unfounded words and generalizations

 

You know these things to be fact because you spend 10 years as a guy, and then 10 years as a woman, and have now come to set us all straight on "how it is"?

 

You're feeling sorry for yourself, and worse, comparing yourself to others. It has yielded you a crap attitude about an entire gender and you wonder why they don't pick you?

 

YOU pick other people over you. Why does this mean other people are shallow and you're not like them?

 

And you don't read minds. You cannot know for sure why none of the girls you talk to pass you over without reading their minds. YOU decide what they are thinking for them and run with it.

[Trialbyfire]

May I ask why people feel self-entitled to be considered attractive, if they're not going to put any effort into being attractive?

[BOLTON33]

You know these things to be fact because you spend 10 years as a guy, and then 10 years as a woman, and have now come to set us all straight on "how it is"?

 

You're feeling sorry for yourself, and worse, comparing yourself to others. It has yielded you a crap attitude about an entire gender and you wonder why they don't pick you?[/Quote]

 

Sorry, equality is a myth and all humans are not equal. There are people superior and inferior to you, period. For example another coworker of mine who is overweight, acne ridden and even shorter than me, if I am talking to a girl and he shows up, I do not disappear into thin air, it just makes me look better.

 

Knowing how superficial the vast majority of people are (Whether they admit or not), yes it is logical to compare yourself to others if you want to date. I think I am personally a better catch and would make a much better father/husband/lover than my friend, but most women would still rather go for the tall good looking crap lover.

 

YOU pick other people over you. Why does this mean other people are shallow and you're not like them?[/Quote]

 

No I don't. I just report my observations based on the body language, attitudes, tones of voice, I hear from women when talking to me, and when talking to my friend.

 

And you don't read minds. You cannot know for sure why none of the girls you talk to pass you over without reading their minds. YOU decide what they are thinking for them and run with it. [/Quote]

 

Sorry as complex as youwomen think you are, you're all very predictable. I can tell just by looking at a guy whether he has or has a chance to get a girflriend or not. I can't do this with my self so i can only guess based on how well or poorly women generally treat me. I can't read minds, but i can read behavior.

 

Why else would a guy with my exact personality only less confident and more weak not get passed over like I do? LOL let me guess , your answer has nothing to do with him being 6'3 and better looking.

[carhill]

I find many things worthy about myself, but it's impossible to have much stake in your own self-confidence with dating when nobody female ever has anything nice to say about you or acts like your completely invisible as soon as a better looking guy who has already been taken shows up. I get really pissed off when women ask my friend about how he's doing in school, how his father is, how everything is, and yet never ask me a single thing, if you don't look a certain way most women under 40 don't even consider you to be human.

 

I empathize here but I can share a really cool thing with you. The day will come when that won't matter to you. It's actually a really freeing feeling. Amazingly freeing. I hope it comes sooner for you than it did for me. When it did, it was like I had discovered something that I instinctively knew was there all along. I was glad I had found it but mad at myself for not trusting my instincts earlier.

 

Anyway, it'll all work out

[WineCountry]

Register monkey at a retail pharmacy is about as far from an ideal way to meet women as I can imagine.

 

 

 

 

A lot of guys are intimidated by the hot chicks. Try talking to the one you're attracted to and not her average looking friend.

 

 

Ahhh..as a side note, I wish STAR GAZER would get that. She does not think it is possible for men to be intimidated by things such as looks, money, profession, etc. It's human nature. Some people feel intimidated, some dont.

[Trialbyfire]

Ahhh..as a side note, I wish STAR GAZER would get that. She does not think it is possible for men to be intimidated by things such as looks, money, profession, etc. It's human nature. Some people feel intimidated, some dont.

Some do and some don't. If all or most appear to be intimidated, it's not about looks, money or profession.

[WineCountry]

Hes 21

 

Youre the old geezer hitting on his peers and flashing around your credit cards

 

 

 

HA-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha... Sorry..but that was funny.

[WineCountry]

Some do and some don't. If all or most appear to be intimidated, it's not about looks, money or profession.

 

 

Your right..it's about INSECURITY. But, it doesnt change the fact that those things do intimidate them. But, to me, it just intimidates them because they are insecure inside. To bad they dont wear a sign so we dont waste each others time.

[Jersey Shortie]

I think men are way more shallow then women. Men put much more preasure on women.

[BOLTON33]

[/b]

 

 

Ahhh..as a side note, I wish STAR GAZER would get that. She does not think it is possible for men to be intimidated by things such as looks, money, profession, etc. It's human nature. Some people feel intimidated, some dont.

 

Well risk vs reward is the key here. When I see a woman who is extremely beautiful, taller than me, looks like she has more status or money than me, then the chances are extremely slim that she will think I am attractive enough to date.

 

Most men feel it's better to keep your ego/self-esteem in tact over risking it all for the fraction of a percent chance that a girl would go out with them. I mean, in my case, I can't even get girls who are like me to like me, most men are actually in a similar boat.

[burning 4 revenge]

May I ask why people feel self-entitled to be considered attractive, if they're not going to put any effort into being attractive?

I dont think the OP feels entitled to be considered attractive..what hes saying is hes approaching women who arent necessarily objectively attractive and theyre chasing after very attractive men while friendzoning all mere mortals

[burning 4 revenge]

Taramere makes some great points, a lot of the guys here make some great points. Thanks for the insight, and also thank you for not babying me and sheltering me from the truth. I really get tired when I am looking for real advice and explanations and instead hear the same old tire cliches about beauty being on the outside and omg confidence alone can make you more attractive etc etc.

 

 

 

Generally speaking, men are more lenient than women. Most men are horrified at the idea of sharing their woman with another man. Most men would also rather date an OK girl over waiting their whole lives for the super hot girl who will never even look at them.

 

Women on the other hand always feel they deserve what they don't even bring to the table. Fat girls want to date the lean guys, short girls only want 6'2 and taller, average looking girls only want very handsome, lower middle class girls only want the wall street guy, and etc etc. Western society has taught women from early on that they are all princesses and all deserve "Right One" which is always a dark haired, very tall, very good looking guy firefighter with a goldman sachs trust to his name.

 

All I ask is for women who look like me, who have my personality, who are generally perfect matches for me....to date me. Is this so crazy? People say "lower your standards" when I say I don't find obese and very ugly women attractive and generally prefer to date my own race, yet why is it so ridiculous for me to want to date someone who brings exactly what I bring to the table?????

 

Probably because women in America are assumed to be superior to men...just for having tits and vaginas. We live in a anti-male society.

Exactly

 

You are wise beyond your years

 

ANd you will find when you get older that the new trend is for women over 35 to all want guys in their 20's to boot

[Trialbyfire]

I dont think the OP feels entitled to be considered attractive..what hes saying is hes approaching women who arent necessarily objectively attractive and theyre chasing after very attractive men while friendzoning all mere mortals

How do you know the women he's approaching aren't objectively attractive? Perhaps he's chasing women who are more attractive than he is, while friendzoning all mere mortal women.

 

Maybe the OP can link a pic of himself and these objectively unattractive women, so we can better gauge how realistic he's being, himself.

 

Men tend to overinflate their own attractiveness, where women tend to downplay it. This is pretty normal.

[burning 4 revenge]

No Ive found the opposite to be true