colosseum Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 Many adjectives attributed to people, especially dates, have a consensus understanding: funny, pretty, kind, warm, down-to-earth, etc. But charming? What exactly is charm? Is that the X-factor that is only seen in the eye of the beholder, or is it something most people can tell? (i.e. you find your SO charming because, well you like him/her, but not everyone agrees; everyone can agree on a funny person, but not necessarily like him/her). Is it that inexplicable, undefinable quality in someone, or something people can pinpoint and say someone has or does not have? What is charm? What do you think it is?
kizik Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 Excellent question. I believe that a charming person is obviously charming to everyone who meets him/her. He's got that quality where he makes you feel like the only person in the world with the attentive way he listens to you. He can make you laugh, or entertain you with his many ideas. IDK. You either have it or you don't, and it's rare someone actually has it. I certainly don't.
Trialbyfire Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 I kenna' explain it but I can give celebrity examples of who I think are charming: Cary GrantA number of the James Bonds but not all. Ones like Sean Connery, etc.I also think that charm is subjective, since not everyone considers being polished and having perfect manners, necessary components of charm.
saira Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 Well all the beautiful qualities about a person that attract you to them become charm once after a week, 2, month these characteristics start to wear off. He no longer gets the door for you, Or gets your coat when out dining, He no longer calls u since names or treats you in that extra special way, when the initial fabric that attracted you to this person starts to wear..... When charm wheres off that when most of us start to see the real person for who they are..... To me on my very first dates or first time i met a guy, I always ask them not to charm me because eventually it is deemed to were off.. I ask them to be them selves, if they wont always get my coat for me not to bother doing it in the first place - do u get my drift? Charm wears off eventually.. If you read my recent post on the 3rd date my 'guy' said he loves me.. Am I confused? Yes because i never though charm involved the 3 little words..
39388 Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 Many adjectives attributed to people, especially dates, have a consensus understanding: funny, pretty, kind, warm, down-to-earth, etc. But charming? What is charm? What do you think it is? That strange thing called charm. Whatever it is exactly, I have less then zero. I've never charmed my way into anything, especially not women.
butcher's hook Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 Charm is the ability to engage and attract through verbal communication and body language. When you are drawn to someone because they are inviting, warm and a general pleasure to talk to and be around that is what I consider charming. Generally speaking people who are charming are also very attentive and demonstrative they make you feel like when you are in their presence that you are the only person alive. I equate charming to engaging.
Thaddeus Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 I like this question. I think charm is best defined by the ability of the person to make the other person feel like they actually matter. Someone mentioned the character James Bond. Take a look at the movies sometime with this in mind and I think you'll see what I mean. When the Bond character is interacting with people who really aren't relevant to his current mission - waiters in restaurants, bellhops and desk clerks at hotels, taxi drivers and whatnot - he alway engages them in such a way as to make them feel important. He always says, "Thank you" to the bellhop for carrying his bags, "What do you suggest?" to the waiter at the restaurant, "Thanks, keep the tip" to the taxi driver and whatnot and, when possible, makes direct eye contact.
kizik Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 I really like this thread, and am going to throw another question out: what's the difference between charm and charisma? IS there any?
kizik Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 He's got that quality where he makes you feel like the only person in the world with the attentive way he listens to you. people who are charming are also very attentive and demonstrative they make you feel like when you are in their presence that you are the only person alive. I think charm is best defined by the ability of the person to make the other person feel like they actually matter....James Bond... alway engages them in such a way as to make them feel important. He always says, "Thank you" to the bellhop for carrying his bags, "What do you suggest?" to the waiter at the restaurant, "Thanks, keep the tip" to the taxi driver and whatnot and, when possible, makes direct eye contact. I think we've hit upon a common thread - attentiveness. That ability to really listen. And not just listening, but caring. Charming people care about what the hell you're saying, which can be rare in this apathetic world!
Author colosseum Posted July 13, 2009 Author Posted July 13, 2009 I kenna' explain it but I can give celebrity examples of who I think are charming: Cary Grant Yeah, I don't know what charm really is, but Cary Grant is vintage charm. That strange thing called charm. Whatever it is exactly, I have less then zero. I've never charmed my way into anything, especially not women. I don't know that this can be self-assessed. Assuming you've been with women, 39388, I would assume you must have had some thing at least resembling charm...right? That ability to really listen. And not just listening, but caring. Charming people care about what the hell you're saying, which can be rare in this apathetic world! Yeah, listening has become a lost art, and maybe that has a big role. In that sense, I've lost my charm listening to this PUA game stuff. I don't think that PUA stuff really promotes that...does it?
39388 Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 I don't know that this can be self-assessed. Assuming you've been with women, 39388, I would assume you must have had some thing at least resembling charm...right? I haven't had a relationship, ever in 35 years. I'm trying online dating, but I usually scare women away quickly. I don't mean to, but perception means everything early on. My tone of voice may sometimes sound pushy over the phone or I'll make a faux pas when I meet them in person. I continually try not to sound desperate, but doing so makes me sound even more desperate. Can't hide the truth. I think the opposite of this is charm.
Author colosseum Posted July 15, 2009 Author Posted July 15, 2009 I haven't had a relationship, ever in 35 years. I'm trying online dating, but I usually scare women away quickly. I don't mean to, but perception means everything early on. My tone of voice may sometimes sound pushy over the phone or I'll make a faux pas when I meet them in person. I continually try not to sound desperate, but doing so makes me sound even more desperate. Can't hide the truth. I think the opposite of this is charm. I don't know you and have no desire to "impart wisdom" or undue advice on you. I will say though that you may have started to internalize that you are not charming, begetting a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you have been trying, engaging and meeting people, I'm sure someone, man or woman, found you charming. To answer kizik, though. I don't think there is a significant difference between charm and charisma. But here's the other question: when does charm/charming become intimidating/smothering? I ask because if we presume attentiveness or engagement as a quality of charm, I don't think a lot of dating advice (i.e. PUA) really encourages that personable amiability of charm. Thoughts?
kizik Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 Well, I think part of being charming also means knowing when to back off, stay out of other people's business, etc. Part of charm means knowing when to shut up
Thaddeus Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 Just came back from the pub with a few friends and I brought up this question: What is charm? Much of what was said has already been said here, so I won't repeat it all. But one person had a very astute observation. She said that the most charming person she'd ever met was Bill Clinton. While she didn't (and still doesn't) agree with his politics, she said he was completely charming. They met when she was working at a hotel in downtown Vancouver and Bill Clinton and Boris Yeltsin had a 2 or 3 day summit there way back in 1993. She quite literally bumped into him in an elevator full of Secret Service guys, and he was very friendly, genuine and they had a nice chat about Vancouver. She said that the biggest thing about him was that he was arguably the most powerful man in the world at that point, but he took the time - no more than a few minutes - to actually engage her, look in her eyes when she spoke and made her feel important.
kizik Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 She said that the most charming person she'd ever met was Bill Clinton. She said that the biggest thing about him was that he was arguably the most powerful man in the world at that point, but he took the time - no more than a few minutes - to actually engage her, look in her eyes when she spoke and made her feel important. WOW! Great anecdote, Thaddeus. Thanks!
underpants Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 It boils down to a polite confidence. You don't have to be the president to have this quality. You don't have to be rich or successful either. People read each other and react. When you can approach/react on a level of confidence then you have the ability to put the other at ease. When you achieve that with a person then if you are interested then you should carefully cultivate that relationship, and continue to do so, as well as ensure that the other party is also doing so. The problem with the pua school is that they use false confidence to put other people off ease. i.e. neg hits and general douche baggery. Engaging perhaps if you enjoy watching trainwrecks, and don't we all?
39388 Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 I don't know you and have no desire to "impart wisdom" or undue advice on you. I will say though that you may have started to internalize that you are not charming, begetting a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you have been trying, engaging and meeting people, I'm sure someone, man or woman, found you charming. To answer kizik, though. I don't think there is a significant difference between charm and charisma. But here's the other question: when does charm/charming become intimidating/smothering? I ask because if we presume attentiveness or engagement as a quality of charm, I don't think a lot of dating advice (i.e. PUA) really encourages that personable amiability of charm. Thoughts? I've internalized this non charming for at least 20 years. Far from just starting. Some of my friends may find me charming, but none of my dates has so far. I mistakenly asked one for a second date and it was a resounding no. I wish I never asked. I've lost several dates becuase I've sounded intimidating or smothering over the phone. I often come across that way instead of charming. Perception is what matters when you first meet someone and I can't seem to put my best foot forward no matter how hard I try.
runner Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 Many adjectives attributed to people, especially dates, have a consensus understanding: funny, pretty, kind, warm, down-to-earth, etc. But charming? What exactly is charm? Is that the X-factor that is only seen in the eye of the beholder, or is it something most people can tell? (i.e. you find your SO charming because, well you like him/her, but not everyone agrees; everyone can agree on a funny person, but not necessarily like him/her). Is it that inexplicable, undefinable quality in someone, or something people can pinpoint and say someone has or does not have? What is charm? What do you think it is? attentive, intuitive, dignified, graceful, sincere, respectful ... just a few adjectives that come to mind. i wouldn't say charm is necessarily inexplicable once you've narrow it down to particular qualities.
runner Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 I really like this thread, and am going to throw another question out: what's the difference between charm and charisma? IS there any? they do seem similar, but i wouldn't say that all charismatic people are charming, or that all charming people are charismatic, at least on the surface. being charismatic seems more of a superficial quality whereas charm seems to come from someplace deeper. does that make sense ?
kizik Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 being charismatic seems more of a superficial quality whereas charm seems to come from someplace deeper. does that make sense ? Definitely, and great distinction!
Ruby Slippers Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 I think a charming person engages the people he/she talks to and makes them feel important, special, and interesting. My ex was so dangerous because he could charm anyone, easily. Actually, in thinking about my past relationships, I just realized that all of the guys were huge on charm. To be an effective charmer, you have to be self-confident enough to almost forget yourself and make the interaction all about them. People love to talk about themselves. Get them going, and show that you're really listening, and they'll be eating out of your hand in no time.
saira Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 whilst being charmed what are you replying and saying back? isnt it 90% in line with the charmingness? (if thats a word) ur charming too????? personally i never want to be charmed - its a waste of time people should be themselves - who we are is already fine
paddington bear Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 Charmed indicates an almost magical quality. Like you've had the wool pulled over your eyes to a degree. From my experience, men who are 'charmers' have had far too much experience in pursuing women and have it down to a fine art, charming unsuspecting women into their beds and then dumping them. So, I'm a bit wary of men who are too smooth, too charming, means they've had far too much practice and yet are still single. In any case for me, charming is what everyone else has said, really the ability to make the person that they are engaging with feel important, like they are the only person in the room (I too know someone who met Bill Clinton and said the exact same thing about him, that despite his importance he took the time to talk to her and engage with her). I've read much the same about George Clooney, that he can charm both men and women. Charm is quiet confidence, it's listening when the other person is speaking, it's remembering a key thing the other person said a week later and bringing it up, showing you that you've been actually listened to. Charisma on the other hand, is charm with extra energy. Someone charismatic could make you feel 'what the hell, I'll just ditch this crummy job and move to Alaska with him'. Charismatic people pull you in with their enthusiasm and you get caught up with their lust for life and want a piece of that pie.
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