is it just me thinking this?

[Mino]

Now...with that said...I actually do believe that OM in my particular case DID intentionally pursue my wife.

 

Within days of 'meeting' her online via an MMORPG, he gave her his phone number and IM account information...knowing that she was married and had children.

 

While he may have been attracted to her at that point...you can't blame this on "love" so fast.

 

He was the initiator of a lot of their interaction, and always the one "pushing the envelope" between them.

 

But in truth, I think he's more the exception rather than the rule, from what I've seen on these forums and others.

owl, Does it really matter who was the pursuer? I see you have mention this many timess, kinda of letting your w off the hook. One thing that I have noticed on yoyr post is that you take no responsibity of the M breakdown. Your stance is is nit me, nor the M is all about what is missing in the cheater. Then to soften the blow, you say and om was the pursuer. I believe it takes two for a marriage to work, when there is a breakdown in the M, where One is is unhappy and feels something is missing, its a problem of both! So you carry part of the responsibity too. But I guess its much easier to say "its not me, its what missing inside of her" Of coarse its wrong to cheaT, but had their been comunication it would never have come to a point where she woukd look eleswhere. And saying " well HE pursued HER, not she him, thats just crazy, no one can tango alone. But I guess that is also what BS must do in order to continue in the M,

[Owl]

owl, Does it really matter who was the pursuer? I see you have mention this many timess, kinda of letting your w off the hook. One thing that I have noticed on yoyr post is that you take no responsibity of the M breakdown. Your stance is is nit me, nor the M is all about what is missing in the cheater. Then to soften the blow, you say and om was the pursuer. I believe it takes two for a marriage to work, when there is a breakdown in the M, where One is is unhappy and feels something is missing, its a problem of both! So you carry part of the responsibity too. But I guess its much easier to say "its not me, its what missing inside of her" Of coarse its wrong to cheaT, but had their been comunication it would never have come to a point where she woukd look eleswhere. And saying " well HE pursued HER, not she him, thats just crazy, no one can tango alone. But I guess that is also what BS must do in order to continue in the M,

 

I think you misunderstood me. Yes, he pursued her, which I think was unusual, which is why I mentioned it.

 

That did in no way 'let her off the hook'. She was the one who chose to engage in an emotional affair with him.

 

We've worked through all of that between us.

 

And if you look at the advice I give on this site, I'm nearly alway saying that you need to make the changes that you can, improve communications, etc...

 

But here is the thing...looking back, even now, I cannot see a single thing that I could have done differently that would have prevented or mitigated any of this from happening. Often, both parties DO need to make changes to improve the marriage. Working with our MC, I LOOKED for areas that I needed to work on.

 

There weren't really ANY areas that I needed to change. The issue in this case was centered around my wife, her depression, and her poor boundaries. Looking back, even SHE can't see where I made any kind of major changes between now and then...

 

Heck...I wish I could 'show' you my marriage from back then...and let you tell me where you think I should have changed to prevent this stuff from happening. Everyone saw her withdrawing even prior to her affair...but no matter what tack I took to try to help the situation, there was nothing I could do to get her to open up and figure things out. It wasn't until this major crisis hit us that she would/could do so.

 

And seriously...look at the MM described in these countless threads.

 

The vast majority are cake-eating, stringing along both OW and BW. Keeping that status quo for as long as they can...at the expense of BOTH women that they claim to love.

 

You tell me...does this sound like someone who is likely to hold up his end of ANY relationship agreemant? I think not...and we've seen that demonstrated over and over on this site more times than I can count.

[Mino]

Owl you say your w was in a depression. How long was she in the depression before her EA? Why did you not insist that when you noticed that she was not her normal self to go to counceling and get on medication if needed? It sounds like her deprression was there for a while, and nothing was done for it, and then its oops we have an ea on our hands. Your right, many mm.mw are cake eaters, but I also believe that many are not.

[Mino]

and let me define " cake eating in mho, A cake eater wants to have fun on the side, with no intent of EVER leaving the S. A Non cake eater may still remain in the M because there are (.....) preventing him to leave. You can fill in the blanks. Meaning its not easy, out of obligation, fear, guilt, money, kids.... I was watching Opra today and it was a rerun of John Edwards case. I must say, I feel for his w, she looks like in total denial, or becasue of her illness, she chooses to stay, When he came on, he didnt look like he had any remorse, sure he said the things She wanted to hear, but it looked like he just accepted the fact that he will remain married. He looked totally disconnected from her, I would think he chooses to stay becasue of guilt or fear of loss of money, or obligation because she is terminal ill. I dont know if anyone eles felt this watching the show.

[NoIDidn't]

It takes BOTH parties to maintain a good marriage. Therefore it only takes ONE person to screw it up. Sometimes, it IS both that do so...but I would argue that this isn't even a majority of the time. Often the same self-justification that leads a MM/MW to step out and cheat IS the true source of the problem and conflict in the marriage to begin with.

 

I agree. It is often the same problem that existed in the marriage that causes them to decide its okay to cheat.

[Lizzie60]

Stats show that there are more and more cheating.

 

and it won't go down.. it will only get worst..

 

Humans are not 'programmed' IMO to be faithful to ONE person for their whole life..

 

With the venue of women in the work force.. the Internet.. TV shows, easy access to porn.. etc..etc.. people want more and more changes..

 

We are in a DISPOSABLE society.. in every aspect... whether we like it or not..

[NoIDidn't]

Humans are not 'programmed' IMO to be faithful to ONE person for their whole life..

 

 

The "programming" argument again.

 

You know, women are programmed to have baby after baby after baby, but do you see ALL women running out and doing that? No. Some of us actually have thwarted that programming with some kind of birth control or just by ignoring that primal drive to procreate (not me, apparently LOL).

 

What you are really saying is that people are "programmed" to be selfish and self-centered. And that would be very true. It starts the minute we realize we can get what we want by crying.

[Owl]

Owl you say your w was in a depression. How long was she in the depression before her EA? Why did you not insist that when you noticed that she was not her normal self to go to counceling and get on medication if needed? It sounds like her deprression was there for a while, and nothing was done for it, and then its oops we have an ea on our hands. Your right, many mm.mw are cake eaters, but I also believe that many are not.

 

What makes you think I DIDN'T flat out try to get her to go to the doctor's?

 

I absolutely did. But short of knocking her out and dragging her out to the doctor's office, what did you want me to do? She REFUSED to go. I asked, I tried to get her to talk about it, I setup appts with the doctor that she refused to go to.

 

Instead, she tried self-medicating by going online playing games. She began logging 18+ hours/day online...until I threatened to shut down our internet connection. Then she backed off her gaming SOMEWHAT, but other than shutting off the internet, there was little I could do to prevent her logging on during the day.

 

Realize that all of us were perplexed and trying to find ways to help...our teenaged kids included.

 

She was depressed for at least six months before the affair started...but again, what do you do with someone who REFUSES treatment of any kind?

 

You sound like you're trying to accuse me of not doing enough to help her...but frankly there was little more I COULD do.

 

At some point, all you can do is wait until a situation worsens to a point where someone WANTS help...which was NOT what I wanted to do.

 

You tell me...what SHOULD/COULD I have done more?

[Owl]

Stats show that there are more and more cheating.

 

and it won't go down.. it will only get worst..

 

Humans are not 'programmed' IMO to be faithful to ONE person for their whole life..

 

With the venue of women in the work force.. the Internet.. TV shows, easy access to porn.. etc..etc.. people want more and more changes..

 

We are in a DISPOSABLE society.. in every aspect... whether we like it or not..

 

It's odd...when I was growing up, the "because everyone ELSE is doing it" argument never worked for me...did it work out well for you?

[NoIDidn't]

Owl you say your w was in a depression. How long was she in the depression before her EA? Why did you not insist that when you noticed that she was not her normal self to go to counceling and get on medication if needed? It sounds like her deprression was there for a while, and nothing was done for it, and then its oops we have an ea on our hands. Your right, many mm.mw are cake eaters, but I also believe that many are not.

 

This really does sound like you are blaming him for her choices.

 

I don't think that's your intention, but it still sounds like blame. My H was grieving the loss of one of his parents (as was I as I was very close to his parents) and became depressed as well. Looking through literature of the common times for infidelity, he fell right into the common time of within a year or so following a major death in the family. But he still found the time to blame me back then.

 

Mental and emotional health issues can make or break a relationship. I think. Especially when the person with the issue refuses help.

[GreenEyedLady]

You tell me...what SHOULD/COULD I have done more?

 

I think your situation is alot different and illustrates the point that no one can force anyone to do anything.

 

Very different than just being stubborn and saying put up with it because we are married.

 

You can love someone and want the best for them but you cannot force them to do anything. There comes a point where there is nothing more that you can do and sometimes you have to watch your loved one self-destruct. Mental health issues are very difficult to deal with especially if your loved one refuses treatment, medication etc.

 

And at what point is the WS responsible for their actions? In everything they do. I did not mean to imply that the BS is to blame for their spouse cheating; I meant to point out that the actions we take or do not take in our M's have an effect on our partner. I also meant to demonstrate that it is through compromise that we can show our partner that we take their feelings into consideration and try to reach an agreement together that meets everyone's needs. Simple give and take. Not stubborn, "Well, I'm right, so I don't care what you want."

 

I personally think that infidelity is one of the worst things you can do to someone. There are so many other options available. Yet we all find ourselves in this forum trying to deal with our choices, our partner's choices. I really think that trying to prevent it from happening is the key here.

 

But I don't believe that it's anyone's fault if their W/H cheats. He/she should just leave if it's that bad.

 

Owl, there was nothing else you could have done. We all have to find our own way. I'm very glad that you and your W were able to find your way back together.

 

GEL

[Owl]

Thanks GEL.

 

And I agree that there are all kinds of situations out there...in some cases, the BS could well be an abusive, evil person that the WS is trying to 'escape' from.

 

But from what I've seen here and other places, I don't believe that this is a majority of the situations.

 

I think that most of the time, the marriage is usually 'plodding along'...neither spouse is making a major attempt to repair anything, because they think that it's all "ok"...and no one taught them that it requires effort to maintain a relationship. Then an opportunity comes up for one or the other partner...and depending on that person, they either act on it as an opportunity to 'have some fun', or as a 'wake up call' and catalyst for change in themselves and/or the marriage.

 

Our marriage had been a pretty good one...decent communication, lot's of fun, lot's of interaction with between all of us (wife, kids, myself) for many years. There were some typical minor issues, as there are in most marriages, especially those with older teenaged kids stressing out everyone. But nothing extreme, or unusual.

 

Then we hit that last year that was a brick wall of stress. Her loss of her job due to a broken ankle and the onset of her gaming addiction, the depression setting in, her withdrawl from the family and her friends...and all of that creating more and more stress between her and I as well.

 

It took the extreme crisis of her emotional affair and it's end to get her to seek treatment for her depression. As a matter of fact, I insisted on it as well as individual therapy for both of us (and MC for us as well) as requirements for me to consider reconciliation after the end of the affair.

 

You know...it's interesting to look back and see the differences in how horrible that time was to how good things are today.