hopefulInFuture Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 The more I read the OW/OM stories the more I am shocked. Is it just me thinking that their so called soul mates are just freaking lying and manipulating bastards who just don't love anyone but themselves? I can't help wondering what can be done to open up the eyes of these poor OW and OM who believe that they've met their significant other while in 99% of cases they just met a dishonest and egoistic cake eater who doesn't know what conscience is and who only think of how to get out the most out of their lives by lying to everybody. What can be done to stop this? Is it something inside us (a childhood trauma, insecurity, etc) that makes us accept infidelity and lies and try to see the good behind the most horrible and selfish people?
GreenBamboo Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 No, it is not just you. I am thinking the same way.
sugarmomma Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 Well, its not unheard of for a Married person to leave their spouse for someone else. Have you ever heard of anythig like that?
Mino Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 why not think of only " the poor OW and OM but also of the POOR BS whos is stuck with mm/mw at the end. That would be a fair question, not just the poor OW/OM, they get to move on and create a new life:p and many times the poor S gets to do the whole process over again.
fooled once Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 Well, its not unheard of for a Married person to leave their spouse for someone else. Have you ever heard of anythig like that? Sugarmomma, yes it happens. Look at GEL. But look at all the others who it doesn't happen to. Look at all the heart ache so many OW/OM go through. In the rare instance it happens ---- why would anyone continue with an A? Is it like playing the lottery and hoping you are the 1 in a million who wins? And shouldn't a man/woman leave their spouse before starting an A? Or like in GEL's case (from what I remember of it) - she didn't have to sit and wait for years or waste her life on a "maybe". She respected herself and laid down HER rules for a relationship. He could accept them or not. She wasn't going to beg, cajole, etc. a man to be with her. She told him what she would and wouldn't accept and gave him the choice pretty early on what needed to be done to be with her. And he did it -- not just for her; but for him. I mean, I guess it started as an A; but in the end, it became a TRUE relationship - not the sneaking around, lying, etc. (GEL, I apologize if I got this wrong). From what I read of GEL's posts - she honored herself and her body instead of someone who will sit and wait around (sometimes for YEARS) for someone who never divorced.
lkjh Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 Well, its not unheard of for a Married person to leave their spouse for someone else. Have you ever heard of anythig like that? Ya, but its not likely. Most of the time they stay with their SO(until the SO dumps them) and make the OW/OM out to be crazy. The ones that do happen usually don't last
NoIDidn't Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 why not think of only " the poor OW and OM but also of the POOR BS whos is stuck with mm/mw at the end. That would be a fair question, not just the poor OW/OM, they get to move on and create a new life:p and many times the poor S gets to do the whole process over again. To put a spin on what you just said, the poor BS sometimes was once in the very same position and dating a schmuck that just happened to ask her to marry them. Some BSs used to be the schmuck's previous OP. For some, its just a cycle based on a character flaw that somebody (BS or OP) just chose to ignore when they thought that love would conquer all.
joyz Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 I can't help wondering what can be done to open up the eyes of these poor OW and OM who believe that they've met their significant other while in 99% of cases they just met a dishonest and egoistic cake eater who doesn't know what conscience is and who only think of how to get out the most out of their lives by lying to everybody. What can be done to stop this? call it love, its something that be cannot reason with. for both OP and BS to tolerate and forgive so much crap it is bc of that powerful feeling called love.
NoIDidn't Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 call it love, its something that be cannot reason with. for both OP and BS to tolerate and forgive so much crap it is bc of that powerful feeling called love. I disagree. The OP is operating on a "powerful feeling", yes. But not the BS. The BS has a multitude of things to consider, not just some feelings that may change like the wind.
D-Lish Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 Honestly, I am astounded at the amount of affairs that are happening at my work... The men that aren't actually engaged in having affairs are trying to have one. It's truly disappointing to see such behaviour. Reminds me that being single isn't so bad afterall.
joyz Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 I disagree. The OP is operating on a "powerful feeling"' date=' yes. But not the BS. The BS has a multitude of things to consider, not just some feelings that may change like the wind.[/quote'] believe it or not, love as fleeting as you may say, is a basic human need for many, if not, for most people. as far as opening someone's eyes to see what's in front of them, (ie the cake eater) its hard when the OP, BS love the cheater. the more we love (or like) someone, the more we are tolerant and forgiving we are of their flaws.
Author hopefulInFuture Posted July 13, 2009 Author Posted July 13, 2009 honestly ladies & gentlemen, i don't think it's true love. True love has nothing to do with the deceit and selfishness. Although I do agree that some people are actually doing very badly in their marriages and use the affairs as their exit, I think most of the times people are just bored with themselves and are looking for an interesting dish on the side. This is why most cheaters don't leave. A lot of times they're kicked out by the BS who finds out of the affair and can't accept infidelity. How many GOOD marriages eventually deteriorate because of the affairs? In such cases the men and women don't leave their marriages because of their "soulmate" but because they ruined what was once good and has now become unrecoverable... My ex was a liar and it took me 2 small lies to completely lose trust in him. After that our relationship deteriorated a lot and it was just on and off for many months until he found someone else and I just cut him off from my life. I understand that he found someone else because I did not want to commit and I was no longer sure of loving him but it was his fault because he lied to me and I could not forgive. I think most married people sense when their spouses are having affairs and they can't help but grow apart... Well, anyways, I respect the opinions of other people but I can't help thinking that the vast majority of affairs happen because people are not committed, are bored and think can get away with a side cake.
girlwithglasses Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 I agree most affairs don't turn into relationships but sometimes they do. In my case, like GEL, I also "laid down the law" and told MM what he had to do to be with me. He moved mountains to become my husband. We've been together for years, very happily married and we still believe we are soulmates.
Confused4Now Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 honestly ladies & gentlemen, i don't think it's true love. True love has nothing to do with the deceit and selfishness. Although I do agree that some people are actually doing very badly in their marriages and use the affairs as their exit, I think most of the times people are just bored with themselves and are looking for an interesting dish on the side. This is why most cheaters don't leave. A lot of times they're kicked out by the BS who finds out of the affair and can't accept infidelity. How many GOOD marriages eventually deteriorate because of the affairs? In such cases the men and women don't leave their marriages because of their "soulmate" but because they ruined what was once good and has now become unrecoverable... My ex was a liar and it took me 2 small lies to completely lose trust in him. After that our relationship deteriorated a lot and it was just on and off for many months until he found someone else and I just cut him off from my life. I understand that he found someone else because I did not want to commit and I was no longer sure of loving him but it was his fault because he lied to me and I could not forgive. I think most married people sense when their spouses are having affairs and they can't help but grow apart... Well, anyways, I respect the opinions of other people but I can't help thinking that the vast majority of affairs happen because people are not committed, are bored and think can get away with a side cake. In my situation....I married into a situation cause my wife was pregnant. I really never got to date her as we married maybe two months of dating. So at the time I was ready to settle down and have a family. However I realized within two years of my marriage I realized I made a huge mistake, but as they say I stayed for the kids. My EX worked a combination of graveyard and swing shift the entire marriage. I think that's the main reason it lasted as long as it did (21 years). So when I met my MW you can say it was a exit affair and even though it didn't turn out the way I wanted. I knew I left the marriage for the reasons that I posted on this forum....I knew when I left I could be totally by myself and I can accept that. Yes I did cake eat for awhile but I GOT OUT. I did not love her so I was not totally committed...I wasn't bored and I hated the cake eating so I did what I did.
Author hopefulInFuture Posted July 13, 2009 Author Posted July 13, 2009 Confused4Now, I've read your story, and I think it just demonstrates my point. As I said not everyone is a liar and some people actually do get out because they're unhappy in their marriages. You were. However, most people just want to have it all, their marriage and a cake on the side. I was referring to the latter category of people. And unfortunately I believe that most are like this. And I think your own MW has demonstrated to you exactly this. Don't you think?
GreenEyedLady Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 You were. However, most people just want to have it all, their marriage and a cake on the side. I was referring to the latter category of people. And unfortunately I believe that most are like this. I think most people have affairs because they are dissatisfied with their M. THe CS is unhappy with something. Either not enough sex, affection, respect, whether perceived or actual, they feel like they are unloved and unwanted and they go looking somewhere else. Now they want the A to fill what they are missing in the M, but most of them don't want to have to pay a small fortune in child support, alimony, lose status and lose friends so they don't pursue a D. Some don't want to be weekend parents. So I think you minimize their feelings by saying they just want it all. And it's probably all the minimizing of their feelings that drove them to an A in the first place. Example: H comes home from working all day. He wants to unwind. His W comes in says she's been dealing with kids all day, needs a break, cleaned house, did laundry, made dinner and she needs to unwind. A fight ensues because they both need a break and neither acknowledges that the other has had an equally difficult day. This causes a rift. Instead of pulling the partners together, it pushes them apart. The W feels like she should get a break since she's been doing it all day, he's been out and not dealing with snotty noses and soccer mom patrol all day. Each feels like what they do is more important than the other. It's all about respect. Both MP's need to respect what each contributes to the union. You know I hear alot from the BS's here and it seems to boil down to the W often playing the martyr card and that she shouldn't have to do this since her H doesn't do this. Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy? Pick. You may be right, but if you're not happy does it really matter? GEL
Mr. Lucky Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 You know I hear alot from the BS's here and it seems to boil down to the W often playing the martyr card and that she shouldn't have to do this since her H doesn't do this. But don't you think that, as the majority breadwinner, many H's bring a sense of entitlement to the marriage? I know it was a hump I had to get over ... Mr. Lucky
Owl Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 I think most people have affairs because they are dissatisfied with their M. THe CS is unhappy with something. Either not enough sex, affection, respect, whether perceived or actual, they feel like they are unloved and unwanted and they go looking somewhere else. The more I see on this site and others, the more I believe that what they're dissatisfied isn't actually something in the marriage nearly as much as its often something that they're dissatisfied with IN THEMSELVES. Often they just don't want to truly face the SOURCE of the issue (themselves) and so their unhappiness is transferred to the closest person to them...their spouse. If its not the CS's fault...it therefore HAS TO BE the BS's fault, right? Maybe not all the time...but it seems to me, more and more as I see all these stories, that the majority of the time, the "what's wrong in the marriage" is something wrong in the WS's personality more often than it's a real flaw in the marriage relationship itself.
HappyAgain Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 The more I see on this site and others, the more I believe that what they're dissatisfied isn't actually something in the marriage nearly as much as its often something that they're dissatisfied with IN THEMSELVES. Often they just don't want to truly face the SOURCE of the issue (themselves) and so their unhappiness is transferred to the closest person to them...their spouse. If its not the CS's fault...it therefore HAS TO BE the BS's fault, right? Maybe not all the time...but it seems to me, more and more as I see all these stories, that the majority of the time, the "what's wrong in the marriage" is something wrong in the WS's personality more often than it's a real flaw in the marriage relationship itself. I second that! The problem is within themselves but they transfer the blame to the BS. Then it becomes so easy to believe the OW/OM and not see all the manipulative and controlling actions of the OW/OM.
Owl Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 I second that! The problem is within themselves but they transfer the blame to the BS. Then it becomes so easy to believe the OW/OM and not see all the manipulative and controlling actions of the OW/OM. I don't believe that the majority of OW/OM out there ARE all that manipulative. I don't believe that most of them go "looking" for a married man or woman. I believe that most of them typically at "worst" just don't have strong boundaries (the same strong boundaries that the MM/MW should have had and enforced as well), and ended up starting a relationship with a married person without truly intending to do so (although there is always a "point of no return" which is crossed by both parties). I don't think that most of them are in anyway "manipulative" or "controlling".
spiraling downward Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 The more I see on this site and others, the more I believe that what they're dissatisfied isn't actually something in the marriage nearly as much as its often something that they're dissatisfied with IN THEMSELVES. Often they just don't want to truly face the SOURCE of the issue (themselves) and so their unhappiness is transferred to the closest person to them...their spouse. If its not the CS's fault...it therefore HAS TO BE the BS's fault, right? Maybe not all the time...but it seems to me, more and more as I see all these stories, that the majority of the time, the "what's wrong in the marriage" is something wrong in the WS's personality more often than it's a real flaw in the marriage relationship itself. I would wager that more times than not... the BS was not keeping up their end in the marriage as well. Some people are just more willing to accept that status quo than others. When the cheater acts... the BS is taken by suprise and easily falls into victim mode... then it's easy to forget all of thier transgressions in the marriage. I've been on both sides... I've been down the victim route.
Owl Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 Now...with that said...I actually do believe that OM in my particular case DID intentionally pursue my wife. Within days of 'meeting' her online via an MMORPG, he gave her his phone number and IM account information...knowing that she was married and had children. While he may have been attracted to her at that point...you can't blame this on "love" so fast. He was the initiator of a lot of their interaction, and always the one "pushing the envelope" between them. But in truth, I think he's more the exception rather than the rule, from what I've seen on these forums and others.
Owl Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 I would wager that more times than not... the BS was not keeping up their end in the marriage as well. Some people are just more willing to accept that status quo than others. When the cheater acts... the BS is taken by suprise and easily falls into victim mode... then it's easy to forget all of thier transgressions in the marriage. I've been on both sides... I've been down the victim route. I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this, my friend. In some cases, there are indeed marital issues. But in all cases, there was something that caused the WS to feel that it was "ok" to go outside the marriage rather than fix it or end it. Most of the time, the BS's are in that same "bad marriage". I know that I was...and I'll tell you straight up that I had it a lot worse than she did...yet I wasn't the one who chose to "work on things" in that fashion. My wife had a sense of entitlement that allowed her to think what she was doing was 'ok' in some fashion. Luckily, the counseling we both got...both MC and each of us doing IC...helped work through a lot of this. There ARE times when the BS is simply a nightmare and the 'cause' of the majority of the issues...but I don't believe that this is normally the case. I think the "cause" of the issues lies with the self-centeredness of the person who steps out in the first place. After four plus years here...this seems to be most common.
spiraling downward Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this, my friend. In some cases, there are indeed marital issues. But in all cases, there was something that caused the WS to feel that it was "ok" to go outside the marriage rather than fix it or end it. Most of the time, the BS's are in that same "bad marriage". I know that I was...and I'll tell you straight up that I had it a lot worse than she did...yet I wasn't the one who chose to "work on things" in that fashion. My wife had a sense of entitlement that allowed her to think what she was doing was 'ok' in some fashion. Luckily, the counseling we both got...both MC and each of us doing IC...helped work through a lot of this. There ARE times when the BS is simply a nightmare and the 'cause' of the majority of the issues...but I don't believe that this is normally the case. I think the "cause" of the issues lies with the self-centeredness of the person who steps out in the first place. After four plus years here...this seems to be most common. All I'm saying is that it takes both parties to build or wreck the marriage. I think it is easy for the BS to not own up to their contributions when infidelity happens. It's just due to the sheer shock of being cheated on. I mean, typically the first response is "how could you do this to me?" It's a very self centered look at the situation. I've been there, done that. I know how I contributed to the deterioration of my last marriage where my wife stepped out first.
Owl Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 All I'm saying is that it takes both parties to build or wreck the marriage. I think it is easy for the BS to not own up to their contributions when infidelity happens. It's just due to the sheer shock of being cheated on. I mean, typically the first response is "how could you do this to me?" It's a very self centered look at the situation. I've been there, done that. I know how I contributed to the deterioration of my last marriage where my wife stepped out first. Again, I disagree. All it takes is ONE party to wreck a marriage. Either BS, or WS...sometimes both. ONE selfish, self-centered person can destroy a marriage, because it takes TWO active partners to maintain a marriage. In your case, you may have contributed to the deterioration of your marriage. And in many cases, it IS one or both partners that do so. I can tell you point blank that I did NOT. I did everything I possibly could to figure out what in the heck was wrong in my marriage, and solve the problems. The PROBLEM was my wife's untreated depression, coupled with what amounted to a mid-life crisis. I was fighting to figure out what was wrong, what was going on, and trying to get things back to how wonderful they had been for the PREVIOUS 17 years of marriage. And the more I read posts by OW/OM here...the more I see a pattern of a self-centered, self-pleasing MM/MW who focuses entirely on what THEY WANT, to the exclusion of anyone else's (BS or OM/OW) needs. It takes BOTH parties to maintain a good marriage. Therefore it only takes ONE person to screw it up. Sometimes, it IS both that do so...but I would argue that this isn't even a majority of the time. Often the same self-justification that leads a MM/MW to step out and cheat IS the true source of the problem and conflict in the marriage to begin with.
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