mountaingirl Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I know ther have been a lot of similar posts, but here goes anyway. My boyfriend and I have been together for 5 amazing years (and have lived together for almost 3 years). We have had a solid relationship since day one, barely ever fight, and have never broken up and gotten back together. He is a wonderful guy- intelligent, althletic, good looking, adventureous, and fun to be with. We share tons of hobbies and are very active traveling and playing together. We have a great time no matter if we are climbing a mountain or sititing on the couch watching tv. He is affectionate and thoughful, but definately not the type of guy who likes to share his feeling and talk about "mushy relationship stuff" (neither am I) So all in all I would say we have a great relationship. So what is the problem? I want to get married and I don't know whe or if it is going to happen. I try and drop hints, but am afraid to bring it up directly because I don't want to be the girlfriend who nags or pressures a man. Plus, i want him to propose because he is madly in love with me, not because he fells pressured. We have been togther so long that I wonder if he is now simply comforable with me, or if he truly has a passion for me. We talk about the future all the time, and have even had general conversations about wedding (ex. It would be awesome to get married in Hawaii), but no ring! What's the deal? All my friends are getting married and engaged and I can't help but be jealous. Am I not good enough? Do my friend's boyfriends love them more than mine loves me? Am I not the type of girl a guy wants to marry? I am afraid that I could be wasting my prime years with a guy who has no intention of marrying me. If we break up and I have to start all over, I will be too old to have kids! I am 29 and he is 31, so it is not like we are too young or he isn't ready. I love him so much and want to marry him, but I do want a husband and family Help!
Thornton Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Given your age, I would broach the subject of marriage with him. If he doesn't want to get married, you still have time to find someone else if you move fast. If all else fails, why don't you propose to him? Then you'll find out what he really thinks of the idea of marrying you...
Lucky_One Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Go rent some wedding flick tonight, buy a bottle of wine, and talk after the movie. Use the movie as a jumping off point, but after this many years and at your ages, I would certainly ask.
asireen Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 He is getting all he wants without marriage, why should he marry?
mark982 Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 my feelings exactly,the old saying,why buy the cow comes to mind. you're going to have to talk to him,and see were everything lies.
Lauriebell82 Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 You said you two are very happy. He may not want to rock the boat. A lot of things do change when you get married and have a family, maybe he just doesn't want that to happen. On the other hand, maybe he is just too comfortable and doesn't feel like proposing will really change anything. Not quite the "why buy the cow" (I personally HATE that saying) but more he isn't in a hurry since you live together. Lots of couples do end up getting engaged/married after living together. I did. Of course those are just theories: you won't know his answer until you talk to him about it. You can ask him in a non-threatening way as well. And whatever he tells you will be the truth, believe me. Don't think (or let anyone else make you think) that he is just lying to you to keep you around. Trust your instincts.
burningashes Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 Don't be afraid to be direct with him. Men aren't mind readers- he could be thinking you're perfectly happy with the way things are. You have to hit him with a 2x4 in the head! But as Lauriebell82 pointed out, bring it up in a non-threatening way. Make it about you and how you feel. Say that he's an amazing guy and you can really see spending the rest of your life with him. Let him know that marriage is important to you, and that you aren't getting younger for having kids. Mention that you aren't trying to pressure him but that you are trying to find out if he sees that in the picture with you. He will definitely tell you the truth and you can decide from there. It's either that.. or propose to him!
asireen Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 Given your age, I would broach the subject of marriage with him. If he doesn't want to get married, you still have time to find someone else if you move fast. If all else fails, why don't you propose to him? Then you'll find out what he really thinks of the idea of marrying you... Great idea of proposing to him. And in a nice way tell him there will be no sex till he comes up with a ring and a date. You want marriage and if he does not, you can still be friends, but the free ride must end. Otherwise, as I said earlier, he is getting all he wants without marriage, why should he marry?
Thaddeus Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 Here's the focal point of the whole post:All my friends are getting married and engaged and I can't help but be jealous.I cannot think of a worse reason than to get married, to measure up to some phantom social standard. It sounds like you're wonderfully happy together, and for that I congratulate you. As for this:And in a nice way tell him there will be no sex till he comes up with a ring and a date.... I cannot think of a more destructive way to end a relationship. Sex should never, ever, EVER be used as a bargaining tool. Full stop.
Lucky_One Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 Why buy the milk when you can get the cow for free? That sort of hearkens back to the day when a woman was expected to be a virgin on her wedding night. When the vast majority of men want or expect sex by Date #15 (and I am giving it a high number to take into account the more patient guys), does this mean that a woman must either demand an engagement ring before they make love, or does it mean that she just gets dumped by every man after Date #15 because they consider her a prude or too much trouble?
Lauriebell82 Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 Why buy the milk when you can get the cow for free? That sort of hearkens back to the day when a woman was expected to be a virgin on her wedding night. When the vast majority of men want or expect sex by Date #15 (and I am giving it a high number to take into account the more patient guys), does this mean that a woman must either demand an engagement ring before they make love, or does it mean that she just gets dumped by every man after Date #15 because they consider her a prude or too much trouble? What? I don't think she is demanding an engagement ring at all. After 5 years invested in a relationship I can see where she is getting frustrated that it is not moving to the next step.
Lucky_One Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 What? I don't think she is demanding an engagement ring at all. After 5 years invested in a relationship I can see where she is getting frustrated that it is not moving to the next step. I don't think she's demanding anything, either. I was typing in response to the outdated concept of "why buy the cow?" Are posters saying that a woman must NOT have sex outside of marriage if she ever wants a man to propose?
Lauriebell82 Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 I don't think she's demanding anything, either. I was typing in response to the outdated concept of "why buy the cow?" Are posters saying that a woman must NOT have sex outside of marriage if she ever wants a man to propose? Ah, I see. I hate that saying, don't even get me started. I don't honestly think it's about sex, I think it's about whether or not a guy wants to get married. Plus, I wouldn't want a guy to marry me just so he could have sex with me. Same with living together, regardless of where a couple lives I think that if a guy wants to propose he will.
Thaddeus Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 Men and women tend to see marriage differently. Women, as a general rule, tend to perceive it as a solid public commitment of two people to be together. And that's right. Men, however, see it more as a stage in their life and a social and even legal contract. And that's right too. Now, given that the divorce rate is hovering around 50% in North America (a bit higher or lower, depending upon your exact jurisdiction) and the fact that divorce courts have long established a "man=bad, women=victim" mentality, it's no wonder that many men are fearful of taking that next step. By the way, I don't say that about divorce courts lightly. I had that experience, so have a few of my friends (both male and female) and there are even well-researched academic works on the subject. Take a look through Legalizing Misandry: From public shame to systemic discrimination against men and Spreading Misandry: The Teaching of Contempt for Men in Popular Culture both by Nathanson and Young. They are real eye-openers.
asireen Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 Sex should never, ever, EVER be used as a bargaining tool. Full stop. It is correct that sex should never be used as a bargaining tool, but if it is within the framework of a marriage. Or when both partners outside a marriage want to keep it that way. In this situation, one partner wants marriage, the other, probably not. And in such situations, sex MUST be used as a bargaining tool. Otherwise, the free ride will continue indefinitely.
Thaddeus Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 It is correct that sex should never be used as a bargaining tool, but if it is within the framework of a marriage. Or when both partners outside a marriage want to keep it that way. In this situation, one partner wants marriage, the other, probably not. And in such situations, sex MUST be used as a bargaining tool. Otherwise, the free ride will continue indefinitely. If any man would fall for sexual blackmail like that, he wouldn't be worth two wooden nickels. And what is this "free ride" you speak of? You mean that the man is getting something "for free"? The implication is that marriage somehow diminishes the man. And if you really believe that, all the more reason for a man to shun marriage. The sexual bond between two people is far, far more important and fundamental to a relationship to be used as some sort of quid pro quo. Talk, communicate, do all that good stuff, but to deny sex because one person wants something the other doesn't is the pinnacle of insecurity and immaturity.
Lucky_One Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 It is correct that sex should never be used as a bargaining tool, but if it is within the framework of a marriage. Or when both partners outside a marriage want to keep it that way. In this situation, one partner wants marriage, the other, probably not. And in such situations, sex MUST be used as a bargaining tool. Otherwise, the free ride will continue indefinitely. No. No. NO. Sex is not a bargaining tool. Ever. What a great way to screw up a relationship. If one partner wants marriage and the other does not, then they either have to find a way to agree on which direction to choose, or find an acceptable compromise (children, irrevocable life insurance trusts, health insurance, pre-palimony agreements (I just made that up)), or realize that their ultimate goals do not match and end the relationship.
asireen Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 and the fact that divorce courts have long established a "man=bad, women=victim" mentality, it's no wonder that many men are fearful of taking that next step. I agree with this completely. A divorce can ruin the man financially. The balance is too much in favor of the woman.
sb129 Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 I don't know which country you live in, but where I live if you aren't married, but live together for more than 2 years, you have similar legal rights to property and assets as you would if you were married.
Lucky_One Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 Oh, the poor poor widdle men. Try reading these studies. Leonore J. Weitzman, “The Economics of Divorce: Social and Economic Consequences of Property, Alimony, and Child Support Awards” Richard R. Peterson, “A Re-Evaluation of the Economic Consequences of Divorce” Pamela J. Smock, “The Economic Costs of Marital Disruption for Young Women over the Past Two Decades” Demography 30 (August, 1993): 353-371 On average, a man's standard of living increases by 10% post-divorce, and a woman's lowers by 27%. Women typically make 70 cents to a man's $1.00 in the US. Couple that with the tendency in many countries for a woman to disrupt her career path for pregnancy and child rearing while men stay in their jobs (increasing salaries through longevity and promotions), and there is a definite disparity in the "net worth" of each partner of a divorcing couple. So laws were created to protect the children (who typically remained with the mother in the past, and who are often today living equally with both parents), so that the child isn't the one who lives in poverty for over half their life. Cry me a river, guys.....
zoe1983 Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 I'm not sure about the details on your relationship but I do know it took my fiance about 4 years to propose. He felt that he needed to have a decent job and be able to provide for us before he could ask me to marry him. I am a bit younger than you, 25...about to be 26, but sometimes i felt like he was never going to ask. However, we had the marriage conversation about a year or two after getting together. I think you definitely need to get the ball rolling...i don't see the big deal in just asking him if he plans to marry you one day. I think you deserve to know and if just asking him to discuss it makes him feel pressured then i don't think he is ready....just my opinion
mental_traveller Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 And in a nice way tell him there will be no sex till he comes up with a ring and a date. He'll just either dump her, or have sex with someone else on the side.
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