EmperorR Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I'll never forgive my ex fiancé, I wish her nothing but the worst, nope it's not eating me up inside or destroying mr I just refuse to forgive, I know forgiveness is for you, but I refuse to. I will despise her till the day I die [end rant]
Thornton Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 It is destroying you, because it's making you into a bitter and unforgiving person who lacks compassion and empathy.
dxb Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 If you can't forgive, at least stop caring. Hate is essentially the same emotion as love but mischanneled. If you keep hating your ex you can't move on. There's great line in the first series of Scrubs - "I don't hate you, I nothing you". If you can't forgive, go for that. Hate is as draining and painful as love but with much less chance of a positive result. Eventually you're going to want to get back out there and find someone new and unfortunately no-one wants to date someone who still can't get over their ex.
sedgwick Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I don't think it necessarily has to make you into a bitter, angry person. I dated a guy six years ago who was a real jerk -- the kind who can charm the hell out of you when you first meet him, but then transforms before your eyes into Mr. Hyde. He lied and cheated and became more misanthropic and misogynistic by the day. I no longer have any feelings for him, and gag when I think about the fact that I slept with him, but I sure do hope he gets everything that's coming to him for the way he treats other people. I've taken no small amount of satisfaction from the fact that his book totally tanked (he's another writer and fancies himself a literary genius.)
brock9911 Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I think forgiveness is important, but in some cases it isnt possible. from what youve gone through, sometimes forgiveness isnt an option and in reality can make you a stronger person. itll make you put up a guard and more leary of other people, but in reality is that so bad, or is it a good thing to weed out all of the bull $h!t so you arent made to look like an a$$ or a fool. over time your heart will not necessarily forgive that person, but more or less forget. you wont think about it so much especially when you find someone new, but it wont stop you from having those feelings when they do creep in your head. i dont think i could forgive my ex for what shes done to me. by cheating, lying and sneaking around, shes constantly gotten what she wants. is it a bad thing to not give her the satisfaction of forgiveness.
Road To Joy Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I know where you're coming from. I've been there. And it feels as if I'm almost out... Just recently I thought to myself, "I don't think I could ever forgive her." And this bothered me simply because whenever I thought of her, I got mad. Yes, I wasn't upset or depressed, which is good. But I was angry for everything she did, and I would find myself cursing her out in my head. This isn't what I wanted or want. I don't want her to have ANY control over me whatsoever. And sadly if I think of her and get angry, she still has control over me. I want her to be able to come to mind, and me feel absolutely nothing. No bitterness, no anger, no depression, and definitely no love. Simply nothing. I want to think of her being with someone else, and it not affect me at all. The past couple of days it's been sorta like that. I feel myself getting closer and closer. I don't think I necessarily wish her bad luck (kinda hazy lately), but I certainly DO wish that some sh*t happens to her, so she can learn. And she can realize that what she did was wrong. I feel as if she's walking the earth, thinking she's just living and nothing she's done is wrong. And that's not true. What she did was immoral in many ways, and hurtful to those around her. And she needs to learn this. So, the only time you'll TRULY be free is when you're no longer bitter. No, you don't have to have any 'nice' feelings towards her. Forgiveness sounds as if you should be happy for them regardless of what they did, and I don't think that's fair. Because they did something wrong. You just have to have no feelings at all. The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference.
runner Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference. i second that. and it's funny how this indifference also makes them want to call you just to say "hi."
PinkToes Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I don't think it necessarily has to make you into a bitter, angry person. I dated a guy six years ago who was a real jerk -- the kind who can charm the hell out of you when you first meet him, but then transforms before your eyes into Mr. Hyde. He lied and cheated and became more misanthropic and misogynistic by the day. I no longer have any feelings for him, and gag when I think about the fact that I slept with him, but I sure do hope he gets everything that's coming to him for the way he treats other people. I've taken no small amount of satisfaction from the fact that his book totally tanked (he's another writer and fancies himself a literary genius.) Not to quibble, but hoping bad things happen to him and taking satisfaction from his failures is having feelings for him. People can only treat us badly (more than once, anyway) if we let them.
kizik Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 People, you can't forgive someone who has never asked for forgiveness. You can't accept an apology you've never received. So, OP, I sympathize with you. I don't forgive my ex, and I too wish that her heart gets broken. If that means I'm not indifferent, so be it. In fact, it would be incredibly stupid of me to think of her in kind terms, as if she had never verbally abused me, demeaned me, and pushed me away. These are valid reasons for having anger towards someone, and until they ask for forgiveness (which they never will), you have every right to be angry. Just don't let it ruin your life and the new relationships you're forming.
Trialbyfire Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Holding onto negativity isn't good for the soul. Let it go or it can rot you from the inside out. Forgive the person but not the action(s).
Ronni_W Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I will despise her till the day I die That's fine, really. Especially if it's not negatively impacting your other relationships or any other aspect of your life. My current b/f despised his ex-wife...probably still does (20 years later.) But he's also loving and sane in every other way, and in every other relationship. For him, it is just that he has to "tone down" his true feelings for her with their kids cos that was negatively impacting them (the kids.)
BCCA Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 You can't accept an apology you've never received. I was going to say sort of the same thing. I dont like my ex at all, never will, and Im not going to fogive her for something she never apologized for. At the same time, Im not going to let any feelings I have about her affect the rest of my life. Shes one person I dislike in a country of over 300M, I think Ill be just find not forgiving her. You need to do whats best for you. If it helps you to forgive them and move on, more power to you. Im just fine with thinking my ex is a pile of crap that I never want to see again.
Woggle Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Live well and be happy without her. Nothing gets at a woman like a man thriving without her in his life.
NopeNah Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I can't forgive my ex either. I just don't care anymore.
Trialbyfire Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Out of curiosity, does this "no forgiveness" make each of you feel good inside? Does it honestly make you happy?
BCCA Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Out of curiosity, does this "no forgiveness" make each of you feel good inside? Does it honestly make you happy? It wouldnt make me feel any differently to seriously believe that what my ex did was ok. It wasnt, and she didnt say sorry, so how can there be redemption? Just so we're clear, Im not out to get her, I dont wish her ill will, and I wont scream at her if I see her in the streets. I just dont forgive what she did, and want nothing to do with her. There is no hate, its just like seeing an old co-worker that you dont like: you pretend they dont exist.
kizik Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Out of curiosity, does this "no forgiveness" make each of you feel good inside? Does it honestly make you happy? This is a pretty leading question. By your tone I can tell you seem to think that we are bitter people harboring lots of resentment by living in the past. Forgiveness is not a choice or an option for me, TBF. Would you forgive a man who sexually abused you, who you never heard from again? Would you wake up one day and say, "I forgive him"? Or, would you remember that mistreatment and let it guide you in your dating? Would you resolve to look for the red flags of a sexual abuser again, while giving the other men (the ones who DIDN'T rape you) the benefit of the doubt? It is foolish and naive to forgive people simply for the new-age, martyr-like appeal. Some people advocate letting go of everything, all the time. To me this is a lack of self-respect. The reason other, smarter people advocate allowing yourself to feel anger after a breakup is that it liberates, clarifies, and enlightens. It helps you to see, "This was not just my fault." Anger is as important to recovery as anything else. The dumper can help diffuse that anger by making a genuine, sincere apology. If they do not do that, you cannot forgive.
Trialbyfire Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 It wouldnt make me feel any differently to seriously believe that what my ex did was ok. It wasnt, and she didnt say sorry, so how can there be redemption?No, that's forgiving her action(s), which I agree you don't need to do. What you can do, is to forgive her as a person, in that she's completely separate from the actions. Most people take actions not to deliberately hurt their partners but because they're thinking of self. Just so we're clear, Im not out to get her, I dont wish her ill will, and I wont scream at her if I see her in the streets. I just dont forgive what she did, and want nothing to do with her. There is no hate, its just like seeing an old co-worker that you dont like: you pretend they dont exist.Okay, that's good that you honestly don't wish her ill. And I can understand why people don't want to have anything to do with their exes. There are some exes I also don't want anything to do with but don't wish them ill. Just wish distance from them. I just wonder how many people hold the bitterness inside of them, even a little bit. That bitterness is a waste of energy, energy that can easily be put towards feeling good about self which translates to drawing someone worthwhile into your life, due to positive energy.
Trialbyfire Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 This is a pretty leading question. By your tone I can tell you seem to think that we are bitter people harboring lots of resentment by living in the past. Forgiveness is not a choice or an option for me, TBF. Would you forgive a man who sexually abused you, who you never heard from again? Would you wake up one day and say, "I forgive him"? Or, would you remember that mistreatment and let it guide you in your dating? Would you resolve to look for the red flags of a sexual abuser again, while giving the other men (the ones who DIDN'T rape you) the benefit of the doubt? It is foolish and naive to forgive people simply for the new-age, martyr-like appeal. Some people advocate letting go of everything, all the time. To me this is a lack of self-respect. The reason other, smarter people advocate allowing yourself to feel anger after a breakup is that it liberates, clarifies, and enlightens. It helps you to see, "This was not just my fault." Anger is as important to recovery as anything else. The dumper can help diffuse that anger by making a genuine, sincere apology. If they do not do that, you cannot forgive.It was fully intended to be a leading question. That I won't deny. I've fully forgiven my ex-H and myself, for the end of our marriage. I can only say that it was worthwhile. The more bitterness you shed, the more you can trust again. The more you can trust again, the more likely you're going to end up in a healthy relationship dynamic, this time with your eyes wide open.
BCCA Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 No, that's forgiving her action(s), which I agree you don't need to do. What you can do, is to forgive her as a person, in that she's completely separate from the actions See, the actions were committed by her, so I cant personally disconnect the two. If I was to punch someone in the face, I would expect that they would think I was a jerk for doing so, not just consider the act bad, but me an ok guy. Most people take actions not to deliberately hurt their partners but because they're thinking of self. I agree, but that means being extremely selfish. Im not going to give anyone a pass on being extremely selfish at my expense, period. Im not saying I wouldnt do the same or dont understand why, but I wouldnt expect a 'muligan' on it, or think the other person should forgive me. Being selfish is fine, just realize thats what it is and dont expect other people to pat you on the back for it. And I can understand why people don't want to have anything to do with their exes. There are some exes I also don't want anything to do with but don't wish them ill. Just wish distance from them. Ive never had an ex level with me, or be anywhere close to honest when they left me. It was all 'I just need to be alone/I dont want to be with anyone right now/Im just going through some stuff' and so on, and they were either dating or screwing another guy right afterward. If one person would just say 'I just dont think were good for eachother, and I want to date other people, sorry' I think a friendship could be possible. Every girl Ive dated has take the chicken s**t way out, though, and made up BS excuses and/or tried to use me. Kind of hard to be friends with them at that point. I just wonder how many people hold the bitterness inside of them, even a little bit. That bitterness is a waste of energy I agree, you shouldnt let it affect your everyday life, but I just dont think its realistic to 'forgive' anyone who you feel f***ed over by, especially when they never said sorry. You can not think of them, or just not care, but I cant see thinking theyre an ok person regardless.
Nedved Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Have to say i do agree with BCCCA in a lot of his statements. Its hard to forgive a person who you feel f***ked you over. In my case my ex was very needy and i helped her with so many problems and went way beyond the call of duty to do so. Once she felt happy i was no longer good enough and she walked out on a 4 year relationship and straight into another guys arms. It left me feeling numb, used and betrayed. She destroyed me and was so cold hearted doing so. These people we're so keen to forgive d'ont care.I d'ont wanna be be bitter forever but i d'ont think i will ever be able to ever forgive her for how she treated me. I think everybody has there own way of dealing with it and if forgiving your ex is what you feel you need to do to move on then by all means do so but my ex is a selfish individual and i could'nt care less what happens to her in the future.
Author EmperorR Posted July 11, 2009 Author Posted July 11, 2009 Have to say i do agree with BCCCA in a lot of his statements. Its hard to forgive a person who you feel f***ked you over. In my case my ex was very needy and i helped her with so many problems and went way beyond the call of duty to do so. Once she felt happy i was no longer good enough and she walked out on a 4 year relationship and straight into another guys arms. It left me feeling numb, used and betrayed. She destroyed me and was so cold hearted doing so. These people we're so keen to forgive d'ont care.I d'ont wanna be be bitter forever but i d'ont think i will ever be able to ever forgive her for how she treated me. I think everybody has there own way of dealing with it and if forgiving your ex is what you feel you need to do to move on then by all means do so but my ex is a selfish individual and i could'nt care less what happens to her in the future. Yep, my feelings exactly. I'm not sitting around being bitter polotting revenge or anything. I'm out living my life but I will always despise and never ever forgive my ex, NEVER. How she cheated on me and left me in like 10k debt, destroyed my life for a period of time, NEVER.
Road To Joy Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 Have to say i do agree with BCCCA in a lot of his statements. Its hard to forgive a person who you feel f***ked you over. In my case my ex was very needy and i helped her with so many problems and went way beyond the call of duty to do so. Once she felt happy i was no longer good enough and she walked out on a 4 year relationship and straight into another guys arms. It left me feeling numb, used and betrayed. She destroyed me and was so cold hearted doing so. These people we're so keen to forgive d'ont care.I d'ont wanna be be bitter forever but i d'ont think i will ever be able to ever forgive her for how she treated me. I think everybody has there own way of dealing with it and if forgiving your ex is what you feel you need to do to move on then by all means do so but my ex is a selfish individual and i could'nt care less what happens to her in the future. Exactly. Oh, and I see we were in the same relationship. Ha.
BW007 Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 This thread is so on the money for me right now. I am really struggling still with really wanting to think better of her, still seeing the good side of her but also on the other hand being so toxically (is that a word?) pissed at her lies and cheating and realizing in retrospect how far back pervasive dishonesty was happening and I was just too eager to trust her and think she was a good person(she was most of the time). I cannot trust anyone right now, I feel unattractive and also polluted and too baggage-laden and F'd in the head and somehow less than these other people she allowed between us. And I want so bad to be asked for that forgiveness. It boils up and changes and sometimes I do feel the overwhelming bitterness and cynicism of wishing not very good things to happen for her. But it is so mixed up with love and hate and loneliness and longingfor good things. It such a swirling freaking mess. I have tried to be the christlike forgiver or the zen master accepting and at peace with the loss. I'm not good at it and there is soooo much betrayal and thoughtlessness that its hard to forgive.......................................... I want so badly to be asked forgiveness. I could then, I think. I hate the distance and I think the best you can hope for is indifference sometimes. The large amount of pain belies a large amount of feelings still. There is a war going on inside my head and sometimes the meaner unforgiving side prevails. Indifference sucks but I think I need to get there.
kizik Posted July 11, 2009 Posted July 11, 2009 I am really struggling still with really wanting to think better of her, still seeing the good side of her but also on the other hand being so toxically (is that a word?) pissed at her lies and cheating and realizing in retrospect how far back pervasive dishonesty was happening and I was just too eager to trust her and think she was a good person(she was most of the time). You don't have to see the good in her. Seeing the good in her would be a lie. You should embrace the anger you feel and realize the truth of what happened, which is you weren't treated well at all (likely an understatement). You're right on the money about your eagerness to trust; I think I give people too much good credit. I cannot trust anyone right now, I feel unattractive and also polluted and too baggage-laden and F'd in the head and somehow less than these other people she allowed between us. Understandable, but you're not less than anyone. That's the way you were treated, though. It can be hard to separate the ex's view of us with the reality of who we are. Good people who didn't stand up for ourselves, trusted too much and allowed ourselves to be doormats and the exes to wipe their feet. I phrase it like this b/c we're all personally responsible for the way we're treated. I have tried to be the christlike forgiver or the zen master accepting and at peace with the loss. I'm not good at it and there is soooo much betrayal and thoughtlessness that its hard to forgive You don't have to forgive her at all and you don't have to be a zen master. It's OK to be angry at the way you feel you were mistreated, and in fact, your emotional recoveyr requires that you feel angry. Chances are you got your heart broken in some fashion (read: unfulfilled expectations) and the last thing you need to worry about is feeling like the bad guy. Instead, get mad and go ahead, think about the sh*t she put you through.
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