My story--sorry it's so long

[loving hubby]

This chapter of my story starts last December, when I found an email draft on my wife’s account. It was to an old friend of hers, I had met him years before, he and his wife and 2 kids were at our house 4 or 5 years ago. It said that she was falling out of love with him but still said she wished he was here so she could rest her head on his shoulder and she thought they would be like Charles and Camilla. I approached her about it the next night and did a lot of yelling and screaming but she did agree not to talk to him anymore but she was not happy with our marriage which is why she was looking elsewhere.

 

When I found the letter she was at the end of an over 3 month leave from work, for treatment for depression. She was in an intensive out patient program. She went group and individual therapy 8 hours a day 4 days a week for I think it was almost the 3 months. To be honest I almost felt guilty about making her give up her “friend”, I figured she was getting something from him that she wasn’t from me. He is also married with 2 kids as I said before and lives like 250 miles away. I asked and believe that there was no physical contact and at the time I did not even know the term emotional affair yet know the damage they can do.

 

Let me give a little background. My wife and I have been married 9 years, we are in our 40’s with 2 beautiful girls 6 and 8, the older one has autism. We lived together for about 2 years before getting married and dated for a year or two before that. We first met over 20 years ago when we delivered pizza together. So we are talking 13 year relationship plus like a 10 year casual friendship before that.

 

Back to the recent past. After finding the letter and hearing her response that she was not happy, I feared for my marriage for the first time. I thought everything was alright, I did not know there was a problem I got into some counseling to help with some anger problems I have. It was nothing major just an underlying tension that was persistent in me. I started read self help books on marriage. I made a conscience choice to love my wife unconditionally and do everything I could to save our marriage. I thought it was making a difference, until 2 months ago when my wife asked me to move out for the summer that she wanted some space.

 

 

I found she had not stop contact with the OM for long. She calls him and emails him from her work phone which is password protected. Finally 2 weeks ago she said she would stop contacting him, rather then me telling her that she need to. This time it was her decision and the next day she came home and told me that she had called him and told him, something she never told me before. I did not give her the summer alone like she had asked for. I don’t know where I could have gone or anything, I thought it was a little unreasonable. She said she was going to spend a couple weeks at a hotel (the kids are at grandma’s for the summer). Until she figured out she could not afford it so she just spent 3 nights this week.

 

I did convince her to see my doctor with me to help get some answers; she refuses any kind of marriage counseling or even reading a book with me. At our appointment she says I am a good man and good father 90% of our relationship is good but it is lacking an intangible that she does not feel can ever be there and has felt this way since our first year of marriage. She also said she felt marrying me was a mistake. This was last Thursday; on Saturday I went to an out of town picnic and stayed the night at a friend’s house. This would give her and extra vacation day from me. She left Sunday before I got home and came back on Wednesday. She came in the door crying. I asked what was wrong, she said she spent Saturday crying for me to come home and then spent Wednesday crying that she had to come home. The last 2 days she has been very cold to me a switch from last week. I had started pushing her away after the meeting with the doctor and really before that. It seems when I push her away she comes to me and when I try to pull her in she pushes away.

 

There is my story sorry so long, I should have posted here before it became so long. I know some of your are going to say get a divorce, I don’t think that is right for anyone involved. I really want to save my marriage. Any advice would be appreciated.

[hopesndreams]

She won't go for help or answers because she is in affair fog. She does not want to let go of the warm fuzzy feelings this OM brings into her life.

 

Her hot/cold responses is her confusion. When her plans are in place with the OM and she no longer needs you on the back burner, in case things don't work out, she will then be gone.

 

The only option you have is to give her plenty of space. Go LC with her right now and show her you will move on with your life, with or without her.

 

In order for you to save your marriage, the OM must be out of the picture. Give her consequences for her actions. If she does not give up the OM, tell her you are done and tell her to find somewhere else to live.

 

It's the only proven strategy to bring your wife back to you. Nothing else will work. If you decide to wait for her relationship with OM to fizzle, and it might, there would always be a new OM just around the corner.

[loving hubby]

Thank you, Hope for your reply.

 

I don't think she has any real plans with OM. He is married with 2 kids, I don't think they have any plan of a mass family break up to be together. I think she developed feeling for him and see the new feelings as problems in our marriage. I wish she would have spent half as much time researching as I have to know the new relationship feeling are not going to last.

 

I know she is very confused she shows it on a regular basis. After leaving the therapist office we went to grab a bite to eat. This is a half hour after her saying that marrying me was a mistake and she wants to hold my hand and be all nice. She says she loves me and I know she doesn't want to hurt me. I also know the OM has to go, I think she is starting to know this as well. Time will tell.

 

The problem with telling her to find somewhere else to live is; she owns the house. She/we bought it when we were living together; we were not engaged until a year later. She has a much better job then I can get and make nearly 3's my salary. I have thought about telling her if she wants to find this intangible she desires she is free too. Just she needs to continue paying the mortgage and tuition and now child care since I would be alone. I don't think she would agree and I don't think I could find a judge to agree.

 

I also am afraid too; it would not be honest of me. It is not what I want, I don't want to separate. I want her to come to her senses and realize what we have and what she desires does not exist for a 13 year relationship.

 

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[Owl]

I'm going to offer some slightly different advice.

 

Here's the thing...you've already noted the pattern that she follows.

 

If you pursue her, she runs away. If you push her away...she comes to you.

 

USE that.

 

Push her away. Draw back from her emotionally...start putting some distance between you. No more "I love you's", no more asking about what's going on, trying to save your marriage.

 

When she comes to you...tell her point blank that you're not going to do this on HER terms, you're going to do it on YOUR terms.

 

If she wants to reconcile, then she needs to:

1. POINT BLANK NC WITH OM...FOR LIFE.

2. PROVE NC to you by sending him an NC letter with you copied.

3. Prove that she's KEEPING that NC in place by giving you full access to her email/phone/etc...

4. She WILL attend marriage counseling with you to deal with the damages done by her infidelity.

 

Anything less= seperation pending divorce.

 

Yes, it's an ultimatum. Some experts say that ultimatums don't work. I'll tell you that this has worked VERY well for me and many other people dealing with a wife following the exact pattern you've described.

 

You need to do your best to stop being so needy/clingy. Make no mistake, I know that your self-confidence is shot at the moment...I know that mine was. But...clingy/needy is NOT attractive. Women can't respect a man that acts like this, and a woman can't stay in love with a man she doesn't respect. Man up, take charge, insist on what you need, and don't be afraid to set boundaries. As much as she'll never admit it to you...that's actually attractive to a woman. She can respect a man who's willing to fight for her, for your marriage, and fight to protect yourself.

 

Don't coddle her anymore. Either she wants to be your wife, and you'll love and protect her, or she doesn't want to be your wife, in which case she has to learn to take care of herself completely without you. NO MIDDLE GROUND.

[seibert253]

She's deep in the fog. Confused is an understatement. You cannot fix your marriage as long as she's in the fog. As long as she remains in contact with the other man, she will stay in the fog. Only one thing seems to bring WS out of the fog, a slap of reality upside the head. Yes your wife has mental health issues, but that's no excuse for her behavior. She's been involved in an EA, and in order to fix your marriage it needs to stop. You need to be a man and stand up and fight for your marriage. Giving her space and time WILL NOT WORK. It will end up destroying your marriage. This is a war for your marriage, you need to stand up and fight. You do not fight fair, you fight to win.

 

OK, you need to fight this war on two fronts.

First, your wife:

You need to give her an ultimatum. Goes a little something like this;

You know honey I love you more than anything in this world, and I would move heaven and earth for you, but what you've been engaged in is wrong and hurts me to the core. Having contact with the OM is like continually stabbing me in the chest with a dull knife. For my own sanity, and for our kids, I will no longer tolerate this. It's time for you to chose, me, our marriage and family, or your OM. If you want to leave, I will not stop you. But, if you do I will consider you chose him over us, and I will file for divorce. You can end this affair, yes that's what it is, and work to fix our marriage, or I will divorce you.

 

Second, Exposure:

Have you spoke with the OM? How about his wife? Don't you think his wife deserves the right to know what her husband is involved in? She can be a valuable ally in this war. I bet if she lays the smackdown on her husband, he will through your wife under the bus quicker than you can count to 3.

Some here will advise against expose, mainly because it angers the WS. SO WHAT, she needs to the face the consequences of her actions. If it's all out in the open, yet she continues the A, then you have your answer as far as filing for D is concerned.

 

Good Luck and keep us updated.

Posting here will help you through this process. There are many veterns here that have been in the trenches and have great advice. Gunny, Owl, The Cuda, Mr. Vadar, Tojaz, Athena, just to name a few.

[seibert253]

I'm going to offer some slightly different advice.

 

Here's the thing...you've already noted the pattern that she follows.

 

If you pursue her, she runs away. If you push her away...she comes to you.

 

USE that.

 

Push her away. Draw back from her emotionally...start putting some distance between you. No more "I love you's", no more asking about what's going on, trying to save your marriage.

 

When she comes to you...tell her point blank that you're not going to do this on HER terms, you're going to do it on YOUR terms.

 

If she wants to reconcile, then she needs to:

1. POINT BLANK NC WITH OM...FOR LIFE.

2. PROVE NC to you by sending him an NC letter with you copied.

3. Prove that she's KEEPING that NC in place by giving you full access to her email/phone/etc...

4. She WILL attend marriage counseling with you to deal with the damages done by her infidelity.

 

Anything less= seperation pending divorce.

 

Yes, it's an ultimatum. Some experts say that ultimatums don't work. I'll tell you that this has worked VERY well for me and many other people dealing with a wife following the exact pattern you've described.

 

You need to do your best to stop being so needy/clingy. Make no mistake, I know that your self-confidence is shot at the moment...I know that mine was. But...clingy/needy is NOT attractive. Women can't respect a man that acts like this, and a woman can't stay in love with a man she doesn't respect. Man up, take charge, insist on what you need, and don't be afraid to set boundaries. As much as she'll never admit it to you...that's actually attractive to a woman. She can respect a man who's willing to fight for her, for your marriage, and fight to protect yourself.

 

Don't coddle her anymore. Either she wants to be your wife, and you'll love and protect her, or she doesn't want to be your wife, in which case she has to learn to take care of herself completely without you. NO MIDDLE GROUND.

 

As I said, Owl, he's one of the best.

Forgot about this, read up on the 180 and start. Be cordual but distant, just like Owl said.

Creating emotional distance and an ultimatum also worked for me. When my WW read the D papers I had drawn, that's when reality finally set it.

[Untouchable_Fire]

The problem with telling her to find somewhere else to live is; she owns the house. She/we bought it when we were living together; we were not engaged until a year later. She has a much better job then I can get and make nearly 3's my salary. I have thought about telling her if she wants to find this intangible she desires she is free too. Just she needs to continue paying the mortgage and tuition and now child care since I would be alone. I don't think she would agree and I don't think I could find a judge to agree.

 

Just and FYI... I've never met a woman that can stay with a man who makes less money than her. I've seen it short term... but I've never seen it last.

 

At some point your going to have to call her bluff. Just leave. Pack your stuff and go.

 

Why would you want to spend the rest of your life with someone who doesn't love you?

[loving hubby]

Thanks Owl and Siebert,

I have read a bunch of other posts here before I did. I kept thinking my situation was different. I guess it really isn’t.

 

For now I am going to take her word on contacting other man. I will check this weekend, the only way I found out last time was to make her unlock her phone and hand it to me. She opened it to email, I know she always deletes her personal emails. I did not even look, I went straight to call log and saw that she had been calling him. I am going to ask her this weekend if she kept her promise not to call him, and prove it. I hope she isn’t just deleting the call log or hiding it another way. When I find this out it will determine a lot of what I do from here.

 

I am troubled by giving her an ultimatum, if she is not contacting the OM. She believes the problem lies in us/me. I think it is going to take some time to figure out. I hope she has stop contact with OM and the fog will start to clear. If that is the case, I think giving an ultimatum would be jumping the gun a bit. Then I think time and space and me working on me and eventually us, to get into some counseling.

 

If she is still contacting him, I will need to do something. I will have to decide how strong I want it to be. Like I said I am not interested in divorce and am concerned she would see right through that ultimatum. Maybe something a little more vague like things are going to change if you do not stop. But I will head your advice and start pushing back hard.

 

I don’t know but I will keep you all posted.

[Owl]

Thanks Owl and Siebert,

I have read a bunch of other posts here before I did. I kept thinking my situation was different. I guess it really isn’t.

 

For now I am going to take her word on contacting other man. I will check this weekend, the only way I found out last time was to make her unlock her phone and hand it to me. She opened it to email, I know she always deletes her personal emails. I did not even look, I went straight to call log and saw that she had been calling him. I am going to ask her this weekend if she kept her promise not to call him, and prove it. I hope she isn’t just deleting the call log or hiding it another way. When I find this out it will determine a lot of what I do from here.

 

Wrong. This is just like taking a cocaine addict's word that they're not using anymore. She not only CAN lie, you know full well that she WILL lie. You cannot take her word for it. You need to snoop.

 

I am troubled by giving her an ultimatum, if she is not contacting the OM. She believes the problem lies in us/me. I think it is going to take some time to figure out. I hope she has stop contact with OM and the fog will start to clear. If that is the case, I think giving an ultimatum would be jumping the gun a bit. Then I think time and space and me working on me and eventually us, to get into some counseling.

 

You give her the ultimatum AFTER you pull away from her for a few days, and let her start coming to you.

 

Start with that. Let the distance build...let her want you. THEN you set conditions on what it will take for her to get what she's wanting from you.

 

If she is still contacting him, I will need to do something. I will have to decide how strong I want it to be. Like I said I am not interested in divorce and am concerned she would see right through that ultimatum. Maybe something a little more vague like things are going to change if you do not stop. But I will head your advice and start pushing back hard.

 

I don’t know but I will keep you all posted.

 

EXPOSE HER AFFAIR TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT CAN PUT PRESSURE ON HER TO END IT.

 

That's another part of this. You need to let her see that you're not the only one who knows that she's doing something wrong. And do NOT give her any forwarning that you're going to do this. Do NOT let her spin this to make it look like your fault. If you let her, she WILL

 

At the end of the day...if you want to win your wife back and reconcile your marriage, you're going to have to be STRONG. Not weak. Not wishy-washy. Not whiny or worrying. Strong. Setting boundaries. Enforcing them, taking a stand. That's what will attract her.

 

Trying to 'convince' her of anything will only drive her away.

[hopesndreams]

I don't think she has any real plans with OM. He is married with 2 kids, I don't think they have any plan of a mass family break up to be together.

 

If only that were so. Do not think that she would not destroy your family and his for what they both want. If things are very deep between them, they will stop at nothing to be together. They are both being extremely SELFISH.

 

The problem with telling her to find somewhere else to live is; she owns the house. She/we bought it when we were living together; we were not engaged until a year later. She has a much better job then I can get and make nearly 3's my salary.

 

Just because she is the breadwinner does not mean you be her doormat. As difficult as it is, do not think about the financials of this, at this time. You are fighting for her, not her paycheck. Do follow the wonderful advice from the posters. You are in a battle now. It's going to be so horrible for you emotionally if you use your heart to bring her back, it DOES NOT WORK, use your brain instead. Go against everything you want to do emotionally because you too are in a fog.

[Reggie]

Just and FYI... I've never met a woman that can stay with a man who makes less money than her. I've seen it short term... but I've never seen it last.

 

At some point your going to have to call her bluff. Just leave. Pack your stuff and go.

 

Why would you want to spend the rest of your life with someone who doesn't love you?

 

For the record, I've seen it countless times. Seen longlasting relationships where the wife makes more.

Owl has good advice

[loving hubby]

For the record, I've seen it countless times. Seen longlasting relationships where the wife makes more.

Owl has good advice

 

Thanks Reggie,

 

As soon as I read the post, I googled it, and more then 1 in 5 American households the woman makes more than the man. That may more marriages can't end badly.

[loving hubby]

Wrong. This is just like taking a cocaine addict's word that they're not using anymore. She not only CAN lie, you know full well that she WILL lie. You cannot take her word for it. You need to snoop.

 

Snooping will be difficult. I have done what I can. Here is a little tip for others. I set up a gmail account linked to her account, I think it is invisible, if anyone knows better please let others know. With that at least you get every incoming email but not outgoing. I also ran an unereaser on our home computer and it did not turn up anything, except meaningless documents from years ago. She does everything through her work smart phone, the only reason I found the original draft is because she had not been at work in 3 months and was using her home account. I would be worried about legal ramifications of hacking her work phone.

[Owl]

She does everything through her work smart phone, the only reason I found the original draft is because she had not been at work in 3 months and was using her home account. I would be worried about legal ramifications of hacking her work phone.

 

And you should keep that in mind.

 

BUT...if her phone is provided by her work...then there's still an opportunity for exposure.

 

I'm sure her company didn't provide that phone to her just to carry on an affair with another man. As a matter of fact, if it's a company asset, it's a sure bet that there's a clause in her contract about misuse and unethical use of company materials.

 

Expose to her employer, ask them if this is what they consider acceptable and ethical use of company assets.

[loving hubby]

And you should keep that in mind.

 

BUT...if her phone is provided by her work...then there's still an opportunity for exposure.

 

I'm sure her company didn't provide that phone to her just to carry on an affair with another man. As a matter of fact, if it's a company asset, it's a sure bet that there's a clause in her contract about misuse and unethical use of company materials.

 

Expose to her employer, ask them if this is what they consider acceptable and ethical use of company assets.

 

 

Tomorrow night her work is having a night out at the ballpark. I was not planning on going, but might have to reconsider. Face to face with her boss and other co-workers might be useful.

[Owl]

Entirely possible that they're already aware that something is going on...or that it's an "office romance".

 

I'd bet you a soda pop that she tries to convince you not to go.

[seibert253]

Tomorrow night her work is having a night out at the ballpark. I was not planning on going, but might have to reconsider. Face to face with her boss and other co-workers might be useful.

 

Yes, Yes, Yes. Now you're getting it.

 

Hubby I said this earlier, and I cannot emphasize it enough, THIS IS WAR. You do not fight fair in war, you fight to win. And, you cannot win without allies. Example: Why do you think Iraq is such a fu#kin mess, because we're basically in it alone.

 

You need people on your side, to lobby on your behalf. To call your wife on the carpet and say; this sh#t is wrong, you need to get your act together.

 

You also need the OM's wife on your side. I guarentee you, WHEN you tell her what's going on, she'll put the smackdown on the OM, and boom, your wife goes under the bus.

 

As Owl said earlier, just checking up on her and staying there and being there for her will result in your divorce. There does need to be an ultimatum, there does need to be boundries, and you do need to engage emotional distance from her.

 

She needs to know, without any doubts that; I will NOT PUT UP WITH THIS SH$T, and I will divorce you if you continue.

No if's, and's, or but's about it.

 

Man if you were here with me, I'd shake some sense into you, then go out and have a couple of beers to lay out your gameplan.

 

Speaking of allies, we are here, we are on your side. We're not here to tell you what you want to hear, we're here to tell you what you NEED TO HEAR.

 

Good Luck and God Bless

[seibert253]

Entirely possible that they're already aware that something is going on...or that it's an "office romance".

 

I'd bet you a soda pop that she tries to convince you not to go.

 

Hope it's not her boss Owl. If I was Hubby and it is her Boss, oh what fun we'd have.

[In Like Flynn]

Why are you afraid to tell the OM's wife? No wonder this continues!!!

[loving hubby]

Entirely possible that they're already aware that something is going on...or that it's an "office romance".

 

I'd bet you a soda pop that she tries to convince you not to go.

 

No not an office romance, completely unrelated and I doubt if anyone at her work know too much. She is not really that close to anyone. She could have easily not asked me or made an excuse for me not to come, but she invited me and I think I will take advantage of it.

 

As for telling the OM wife. I just figured out how to get a hold of her earlier this week. I met her once for a half hour 5 years ago and really had no idea of what her name was. Thanks to google, her husband whose name I did know, made a political contribution through her office last year. So now I had an address and through that I found a name, email address, phone number, and even a facebook page. The only thing that keeps me from contacting her right away is she is an attorney, so I want to make sure I get it right and don't possible say or do anything that can be used against me. I doubt she would be anything but grateful, but considering her occupation, I feel caution is in order.

[tami-chan]

When I found the letter she was at the end of an over 3 month leave from work, for treatment for depression. She was in an intensive out patient program. She went group and individual therapy 8 hours a day 4 days a week for I think it was almost the 3 months. ......

 

Your wife was profoundly depressed(probably still is) to need all the above and you thought this? see below:

 

I thought everything was alright, I did not know there was a problem...

You should talk to the OM...man to man...who knows? maybe this is one-sided. It looks like your wife might be creating her own "reality" in connection with this guy.

 

I think she is not in an affair fog...she is worst than that..she might be imagining this "relationship" with the other man. For your sake and your family's (including your wife) confront the truth and talk to the OM and MAYBE his wife---not accusatory, just present the facts, i.e. you read the email, or whatever facts you have....

 

If it IS indeed true that she is having an affair....emotional or otherwise...as many say here on LS,having it in the open will most likely kill it.

[loving hubby]

I don't want to even give him the time of day if his life depended on it. The night I originally found the draft email (it was a draft, never sent). When I approached my wife about it, we got in a huge argument. She locked herself in the bedroom, I pounded on the door until she let me in. I saw she was on the phone, I asked if she was on the phone with him, she said no she was talking to her mother. It did not occur to me until months later to check the phone bill, she was on the phone with him (that was one of the few times she used our house phone).

 

When I did get to check her cell phone log I saw almost daily calls to him. The only time she would call him, other then business hours was when she was on the road working. Then he was the last person she would call at night. It was only a few times, she does not have to travel much. But I am sure he knew.

 

At the start, I tried to give him the benefit of doubt, but time proves he is involved (maybe not as much as my wife, but definitely enabling her). I don't really know his intentions and don't really care. He is a dog at best (sorry to dog lovers).

[tami-chan]

I don't want to even give him the time of day if his life depended on it. The night I originally found the draft email (it was a draft, never sent). When I approached my wife about it, we got in a huge argument. She locked herself in the bedroom, I pounded on the door until she let me in. I saw she was on the phone, I asked if she was on the phone with him, she said no she was talking to her mother. It did not occur to me until months later to check the phone bill, she was on the phone with him (that was one of the few times she used our house phone).

 

When I did get to check her cell phone log I saw almost daily calls to him. The only time she would call him, other then business hours was when she was on the road working. Then he was the last person she would call at night. It was only a few times, she does not have to travel much. But I am sure he knew.

 

At the start, I tried to give him the benefit of doubt, but time proves he is involved (maybe not as much as my wife, but definitely enabling her). I don't really know his intentions and don't really care. He is a dog at best (sorry to dog lovers).

 

So confronting the OM is out of question? ok...that's your choice. But who is going to tell the OM that he is enabling your wife? afterall, the calls are FROM her? It's not going to stop...there is something going on with your wife that is more than just an affair..is she on psych meds?

[loving hubby]

I thought I would give you all an update how today went. I did not call her today, which has become the norm lately. We used to talk at least once a day during work. She did call me on my way home, to tell me that she made a mistake and turned the AC off. When we don't talk for a while she does usually find a weird reason to call. I was very cold to her and she noticed. When she came home I did not do my usual of meeting her in the garage to give her a hug and help her with her things.

 

When she came in the room I gave her a "hey", I don't think she noticed but that is her response when she does not give a sh*t. She did notice that I was not behaving normally. She sat down next to me and said you seem angry or annoyed, is something wrong. I said no just hanging out. She went about her business and sat down again and said "I don't know what to do about us". I just bit my tongue and did not say anything. i asked what she wanted to do about dinner and she said she did not feel well and then went back to the bedroom. I gave it like a half hour and went back and said I was hungry and asked about dinner again. She said she did not want anything, so I left and went and grabbed some wings and beer. Came back about an hour later and she was still in bed and in her PJ's. I went down in the basement with a beer and a scotch and watched a movie. I think I will just sleep down here tonight. See what kind of reaction that gets from her tomorrow.

[loving hubby]

Sorry Tami,

Our messages crossed. I am not completely against confronting OM, I just don't see the point, he has to know what is going on and chooses to do so. The calls are going both ways. I would be more apt to talking to his wife.

 

Yes she is taking a lot of meds right now. It is weird I can actually smell the difference in her. I tried to explain it to her; it is like saying how water tastes. It is impossible to put into words but in the past few months I can smell a difference in her. I know psych meds change your body chemisty, and did mention it to my psychologist (he said he had never heard of such thing), I hope she mentions it to her prescribing doctor.