tigressA Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 I've been contemplating this question over the last couple of days. My boyfriend and I have had our share of issues, mostly due to general incompatibility, but one always keeps popping up--what he feels passes as humor and my reaction to it. He routinely acts as if he's annoyed/exasperated with me and then says he was kidding. Examples: Yesterday when he came back from work and I had off, he came into the living room where I was reading a book. We kissed for a minute or two, then he broke away and said, "Okay, get off me" in this stern tone, then went into the "Kidding, baby" and "You look so cute when you have that sad face on". Other times, like if we're off doing our own thing and I'll go into his room just to give him a kiss or a hug; he'll say "Okay, leave me alone now" or "Go away", always insisting right after that he was just kidding. Since I've finally heard from him what I've wanted to hear for so long ("I love you"), he told me that it feels like I'm pressuring him to say it all the time, that he's not the type to say it all the time. I said, "Well, what I find difficult to understand is that you have absolutely no problem telling me all about how 'hot' and 'beautiful' I am, but for some reason it's so much harder to say three little words. To me, it shouldn't be difficult, since you do feel it, right?" He said, "Yeah, I do, but you're the only person I've ever said it to; it feels weird." I said, "Do you remember how long ago I said it to you? Put yourself in my shoes for a minute...it's natural after waiting so long to hear it that I would want to hear it a lot, I think." He said, "Okay, I'll try...is once a day good? Don't expect to hear it more often than that...I'm kidding." Before I talked to him about it he would say, "Don't expect me to say it all the time; maybe I'll say it like once a month..." I end up feeling hurt by the things he says to me, and I tell him. I say, "That was really rude/mean/not nice" or "That upset me". I've talked to him about the issue more times than I can remember, and it still exists. I wonder if I'm just too sensitive in general, or just too sensitive for my boyfriend (None of the other guys I was involved with ever did anything like that, and I don't really know any other guy who does). A friend of mine suggested throwing his insensitivity right back in his face, that if he feels hurt by something I say, then he can understand how I feel, or it could end up making me feel less sensitive. Does this sound like a good idea? Does it seem like I might be overreacting to the things my boyfriend says?
Ruby Slippers Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 He sounds very immature to me. If I were you, I would take his advice and "get away from" him. If you're less available to him, he might be less likely to be rude and make the stupid jokes. Of course, it might take years for him to grow out the juvenile behavior. Don't ever waste time with someone who makes you feel bad consistently.
2sure Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 Sarcasm. People use it to say rude things and call it humor. There is a difference. Sarcasm has very little place in a relationship.Humor yes of course...and a lot of it. When couples affectionately use sarcasm with each other it is because they know each other very well and it is mostly little private jokes. Not mocking.
Author tigressA Posted July 8, 2009 Author Posted July 8, 2009 He sounds very immature to me. If I were you, I would take his advice and "get away from" him. If you're less available to him, he might be less likely to be rude and make the stupid jokes. Of course, it might take years for him to grow out the juvenile behavior. Don't ever waste time with someone who makes you feel bad consistently. Yeah, I've been able to see that he is quite immature. I convinced myself for awhile that I was just a little too uptight and that compared to the other things about our relationship, that issue wasn't very important, but if it wasn't important it wouldn't keep coming up; I wouldn't continue to be upset by things that he said. I hate this because I love him and I'm here with him for the summer; short of going back to stay with my dad there's not much I can do to make myself less available. We had had some other problems last month but they worked out; I don't know how I could work this one out; it seems like we're just two really different people. I thought of something to do the next time he says something like "Go away now"--like say, "Sure" and start packing up my stuff. But I'm just not that kind of person; I love him and I don't like the idea of doing or saying things like that just to get him to feel bad. But I don't know what else to do, really.
stepka Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 I get the feeling that this is his way of "relating," shall we say. I really don't think he means anything by it--it's affection in his eyes. Either you will get used to it and enjoy it, or you won't. If you never do, then you will have to reassess. You could try doing it right back at him and see how he takes it--see if he can take a dose of his own medicine.
Ruby Slippers Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 I thought of something to do the next time he says something like "Go away now"--like say, "Sure" and start packing up my stuff. But I'm just not that kind of person; I love him and I don't like the idea of doing or saying things like that just to get him to feel bad. But I don't know what else to do, really. How about going to another room? Going out for a walk? Going to do something fun by yourself -- movie, lunch, swimming, whatever. You teach people how to treat you, and every time you allow this treatment, it reinforces for him that it's OK and you'll put up with it. If someone tells me to get away from him or go away, I do.
Author tigressA Posted July 9, 2009 Author Posted July 9, 2009 I tried something, and it worked. I was super-distant when he came to pick me up from work earlier. I didn't talk; I didn't put my hand on his knee like I usually do when we're in the car; I didn't hold his hand when we were in the grocery store to pick up a few things; I didn't try to kiss him. On the ride back he was reaching for my hand and he kissed it; he thanked me for taking all the bags out to the car. When I wasn't all over him before he was going to bed he asked me if anything was wrong, that something was 'different'. I said, "No, I'm fine." When we were back at the house and he was going in to kiss me goodnight he kissed me on the forehead like he usually does, then moved in for my mouth, then he said, "Wait, I'm not gonna kiss you 'cause you taste like fish right now" (I was eating leftover salmon dinner). I just moved my face away from his and stared ahead, saying, "Okay." He said, "Huh? You usually put up a fight with that" and asked me what was up again. I said, "Nothing. Go to bed, babe." He said, "Okay...goodnight..." and went upstairs. The longing/confused look he had on his face was kind of epic. I feel all slimy and manipulative. I don't feel like you should have to play games like this when you're in a relationship. I know it's probably the only way to get him to wake up and smell the coffee after all that I've done already, but I still feel bad about it.
BWLoca Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 I think he's just kidding around, honestly. I do the same thing to my friends all the time, minus the "just kidding." He was confused because he wants you to play back with him. When he said the fish comment, he was probably looking for you to do something like grab his face and make him kiss you.
Ruby Slippers Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 I feel all slimy and manipulative. I don't feel like you should have to play games like this when you're in a relationship. I know it's probably the only way to get him to wake up and smell the coffee after all that I've done already, but I still feel bad about it. You've tried the sensible, loving approach -- telling him that it hurts your feelings and asking him to stop -- and that hasn't worked. It sounds like pulling back a little has already worked wonders. I see no reason to feel bad here -- if anyone should feel bad, it is he, for not respecting your request not to pick at you.
Ruby Slippers Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 When he said the fish comment, he was probably looking for you to do something like grab his face and make him kiss you. Yeah, he's using the same tactics of poking fun that a guy uses with his buddies. As he matures, he will figure out that not all women appreciate that. I know some more cynical women who enjoy exchanging a good ribbing with their man, but the more sensitive and sweet of us are usually not big on it. My last boyfriend, the eternal clown, did this kind of thing early on, and I always hated it and let him know. Eventually, he figured out that all it was doing was pushing me away, and he stopped.
Author tigressA Posted July 9, 2009 Author Posted July 9, 2009 Yeah, he's using the same tactics of poking fun that a guy uses with his buddies. As he matures, he will figure out that not all women appreciate that. I know some more cynical women who enjoy exchanging a good ribbing with their man, but the more sensitive and sweet of us are usually not big on it. My last boyfriend, the eternal clown, did this kind of thing early on, and I always hated it and let him know. Eventually, he figured out that all it was doing was pushing me away, and he stopped. Yeah, that could be it. I am the only girl he's dated--not by choice; he hadn't ever had much luck with women prior to me (he's 24, by the way; I'm 22), so I tried to reconcile myself to thinking, "Okay, he just doesn't understand women..." but then again, we've been dating seriously for a year and 8 months and I've discussed this issue with him a bunch of times, broke up with him over it a couple of times because I just felt like I couldn't take it anymore, but then he would always come crawling, saying he's so sorry, he's a jerk, I'm the best thing to ever happen to him, don't leave...so I came back. But things never got much better even after all that. I was really, really upset when he said those things about how I shouldn't expect him to say "I love you" more than once a month and all, because he knew how long I waited to hear it from him in the first place (I said it to him first over a year ago). I've thought pretty seriously recently about ending things for good, but I don't know. I'm confused because I really love him and we've been able to work out other issues, but this one just keeps coming up over and over.
kizik Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 I don't feel like you should have to play games like this when you're in a relationship. Nope, you shouldn't. TBH, it doesn't sound like much of one. A couple thoughts: 1. His little distancing game he plays with you ("Go away," etc.) is not only immature, but it borders on cruelty. I doubt he means to do it with malicious intent (who knows with this dude)... chances are he's just a cocky guy who enjoys holding a little bit of power of you. And you've let him, by making your sad face or whatever, and so now you're in this weird, uncomfortable dynamic that's not even flirting anymore... it's just weird relationship crap. 2. In regards to "I love you". You can't make him say it any more than he wants to say it, and your pressuring him to do it (down to the "how many times a day" convo!!!) is simply a lost cause. You can't make him say that any more than you can change him into a respectful, non-douchebag gentleman. All of this stuff about you taste like fish, I'm not gonna kiss you, well fine then, good night, sad faces :(, angry faces :mad:, it's all BS. You've crossed the flirting line into some strange territory built on mutual resentment. I've been there. And hey, maybe I'm wrong; only YOU know your situation. But this is what I've inferred after reading your OP. -k
Phateless Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 This guy sounds like a douchebag. I say cut bait and go find one who knows how to use sarcasm properly and can express his feelings.
Author tigressA Posted July 9, 2009 Author Posted July 9, 2009 Nope, you shouldn't. TBH, it doesn't sound like much of one. 1. His little distancing game he plays with you ("Go away," etc.) is not only immature, but it borders on cruelty. I doubt he means to do it with malicious intent (who knows with this dude)... chances are he's just a cocky guy who enjoys holding a little bit of power of you. And you've let him, by making your sad face or whatever, and so now you're in this weird, uncomfortable dynamic that's not even flirting anymore... it's just weird relationship crap. -k He says he really doesn't mean it at all. I've asked him before, "Well if you don't really mean it...why do you bother even saying it? And so often, when you know it offends me?" And he never really had an answer for that. As for having power over me...that's likely. As I said, I'm the first girl who's been involved with him; he's never had luck with them before. I think he likes that I'm visibly so affected by things that he says/does, that he's got me so under his thrall. That's why my pulling back last night and being unaffected worked so well. I did it again this morning too, before he left for work, and he actually said "I love you" without any prompting, which is pretty tremendous. And again, I feel all gross for doing it. I'm going to have a serious talk with him...one that will likely involve arrangements for me to leave his house early.
Kamille Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 I wouldn't think of you distancing yourself from him as palying games. You've told him and shown him his comments upset you. He continues to say them because it reassures him. It's one of the ways he knows you care for him and maybe a way for him to feel like he has control over his emotions. (It's okay to love you because you love him more). It isn't a perticularly good way to do get reassurance, but, like you said, he is still young. So, we know one thing: he doesn't think you being upset is a good enough reason for him to change his behaviour. Well then, all that's left for you to do is to find a solution that works for you and get over the hurt his humor cuases you. Get over it doesn't mean justifying his behaviour. Instead, it means you gain some independance so that you can STOP responding emotionally to something he claims to mean as a joke. Just like you did. You did it out of resentment, but really, you should do it because YOU want to stop feeling hurt over something you can't control: his behaviour. I don't think there's any reason to distance yourself all across the board. You don't want to become passive agressive. All you can do is stop responding to the hurtful comments and stop begging him to tell you he loves you. I think the way to do this is, like Rubby Slippers suggested, to focus on doing other things when his behaviour makes you feel emotional. You are the centre of your own well-being. He isn't. I'm willing to bet that as you stop relying on him to make you feel love, he will be more forthcoming with showing you love.
Kamille Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 He says he really doesn't mean it at all. I've asked him before, "Well if you don't really mean it...why do you bother even saying it? And so often, when you know it offends me?" And he never really had an answer for that. As for having power over me...that's likely. As I said, I'm the first girl who's been involved with him; he's never had luck with them before. I think he likes that I'm visibly so affected by things that he says/does, that he's got me so under his thrall. That's why my pulling back last night and being unaffected worked so well. I did it again this morning too, before he left for work, and he actually said "I love you" without any prompting, which is pretty tremendous. And again, I feel all gross for doing it. I'm going to have a serious talk with him...one that will likely involve arrangements for me to leave his house early. I was writing when you posted this. Honestly, I do think you are over-reacting here. Move out? Why would you move out? Don't distance yourself overall, distance yourself from the situations that make you unconfortable. This is, in my view, a duty you have to YOURSELF, not him. I also don't think you need to have a talk. The Talks, as you should have realized by now, hardly ever solve anything. Ideally, you should discuss things once and then let the situation evolve on its own. Each find a compromise that will work (you "could you please stop pushing me away", him: "it's only a joke", you "I don't think it's funny and I would appreciate it if you stopped". Then if he does it again, you step away from the situation because he already KNOWS you don't like it. Believe me, actions speak louder then words and he'll get the point.) Also, while I agree that his actions are immature, a part of me was thinking that yes, maybe by constantly asking him to tell you he loves you and asking him to stop "joking", you are coming off a bit as being needy. So stop it! Stop allowing yourself to feel needy. Take control of that part of your life. If in one perticular moment he isn't feeling as lovey as you are, you know what, it isn't the end of the world. He's shown already that he can be forthcoming with the love and care. It sounds like you need to give him more room to come to you. This will do two things: it'll allow him to take on more of a caring role in the relaitonship and it will give you the reassurance you keep verbally asking for. I repeat: you need to give him more room to come to you.
Ruby Slippers Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 I did it again this morning too, before he left for work, and he actually said "I love you" without any prompting, which is pretty tremendous. And again, I feel all gross for doing it. I'm going to have a serious talk with him...one that will likely involve arrangements for me to leave his house early. I agree that you should not have a talk. You've already tried that. You tried the reasonable, loving approach before, and it didn't work. There's a GREAT bit of wisdom in a book I read recently that says the less emotional the woman is, the more emotional the man becomes. Simple idea, but very powerful, and I have always found it to be true. When I handle a relationship with a man calmly and rationally, and do not give in to every emotion that I feel, it's insane how worked up into a lather he gets. Even the most stoic men will suddenly marvel at their own feelings. It's all energy. If you are perpetually responding to each little tug he gives your strings, you're giving him control over your emotional well-being. If you unhook yourself from that, you are taking back control of how you feel. THAT is what's impressive -- having the mental strength and resolve to take yourself out of that unhealthy push and pull dynamic. That nurtures respect, which nurtures love and growth.
Ruby Slippers Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 As I said, I'm the first girl who's been involved with him; he's never had luck with them before. I think he likes that I'm visibly so affected by things that he says/does, that he's got me so under his thrall. That's why my pulling back last night and being unaffected worked so well. Yeah, it could be insecurity on his part. Deep down, he's scared you're too good for him or you'll leave him, so he's trying to knock you down a peg or two and keep you a little off balance. My last boyfriend did this to me, too, I think, and it had the totally opposite effect that I think he was going for. Little jabs and insults only work on insecure women with issues. A woman who has healthy self-esteem and self-respect wants to be appreciated, not insulted. The boyfriends who made their juvenile little jabs at me only pushed me away every time, and made me long to be with someone who made me feel good, not bad. The one who showed his love and appreciation and treated me well was rewarded with as much love and devotion as I could give.
stepka Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 It's funny but I got to thinking about this post this morning while I was mowing the lawn and have a little more perspective to add. First of all, the guy I just went out with last night says many of the same types of things, but in such an amusing way that I just think it's funny. You might say that we have a similar sense of humor and for us, if it gets off the ground, it will work. But just b/c it works for me doesn't mean it will work for you. Here's the thing tigress: You are not amused. It hurts you and you've leveled with him and nothing has changed. My question is, do you see a future with this man? Do you intend to get married anytime w/in the next few years? You need to think about that, because I don't recommend that you marry this man. I don't think you're wrong and I don't think he's wrong, but this is a basic issue of incompatibility, and if you want to get married, you shouldn't be wasting your time w/ someone who is so clearly not right for you. Many of us make the mistake of thinking that unless he's done something really bad like hit you, that it would be mean to break up, but this is your future you're planning. And if you're sleeping with him, there's the risk that you could get pregnant with him and end up marrying him b/c he's the baby's dad. If you do break up with him, don't make him out to be the bad guy--just tell him the truth--you're incompatible and rather than ask him to change his personality, it would be best to find someone with whom you can mesh. The sooner the better really, b/c the longer a bad relationship goes on, the harder it is to get out and the more negative you get and pretty soon you start to think that there isn't anything better out there and you might as well stay. Ask me how I know that.
Author tigressA Posted July 9, 2009 Author Posted July 9, 2009 Yeah, it could be insecurity on his part. Deep down, he's scared you're too good for him or you'll leave him, so he's trying to knock you down a peg or two and keep you a little off balance. My last boyfriend did this to me, too, I think, and it had the totally opposite effect that I think he was going for. Little jabs and insults only work on insecure women with issues. A woman who has healthy self-esteem and self-respect wants to be appreciated, not insulted. The boyfriends who made their juvenile little jabs at me only pushed me away every time, and made me long to be with someone who made me feel good, not bad. The one who showed his love and appreciation and treated me well was rewarded with as much love and devotion as I could give. Yeah, he has told me that he thinks I'm too good for him; he's said things like, "I don't know why someone like you decided to be with someone like me" and whatnot. We are quite different; we have extremely disparate emotional thresholds--I react easily, sometimes even automatically, to a lot of things; he's said the only things I could do to upset him are 1. intentionally destroying any of his belongings and 2. cheating on him. We have no common interests; we come from extremely disparate class backgrounds as well. He's never had to worry about money a day in his life and has money in his checking account that I could use to pay off medical bills, while I have to worry about having enough money for groceries when I'm at school. Since I've been here with him for the summer I'm just feeling overwhelmed by a lot of things...I feel embarrassed about my circumstances. He knows where I come from, but I can't help but feel like I'm beneath him in ways. I feel like some charity case. I know it's not his fault. I don't know if this is somehow provoking my sensitivity or what. But I've never, ever felt like I was on the same level he was, and I don't know if I'll ever feel that way. I feel like I can't relate to him at all; I've talked to him about some of this but he can never understand...I thought I would be happy with him for the summer but I feel more miserable than I have in a long time.
stepka Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Tigress, it's gonna hurt but you gotta let that one go. My rule of thumb is that when the relationship causes more pain than pleasure, it's time to call it quits. Like I said, you're not wrong for feeling this way, but you're wasting time w/ someone you're not compatible with. It's time to go out and meet Mr. Right--please don't let a fear of being alone stop you.
Bayern Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Tell him that his type of humor is not in the least funny to you. Honesty can't hurt if he really does like you.
espec10001 Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I agree with many others. Don't let a sour relationship hold you back from achieving your dreams. What do you wish you could do or be in life? You can do it! Believe in yourself first and foremost! But you gotta get over the initial pain of loneliness. It does hurt a lot at first, but you always get over it with time. Then you can focus on what interests YOU and you'll naturally meet someone whom you are more compatible with because you'll meet a guy with the common ground of MUTUAL INTERESTS!
Author tigressA Posted July 10, 2009 Author Posted July 10, 2009 Tell him that his type of humor is not in the least funny to you. Honesty can't hurt if he really does like you. I have told him that, quite often. And that's why I had to resort to throwing it all back on him--because just telling him wasn't doing anything to make things better. But since I started being "less emotional" about things and more casual, a bit less affectionate, things have gotten better--last night when I did it not one single thing that would usually offend me came out of his mouth, which is totally epic. I hated doing what I'm doing, but it's working, and I never thought it would be this easy. When he went to bed last night I was sitting thinking, "Did all that just happen?" It was that good. And honestly, I felt a bit less burdened by everything. Maybe this is good? Maybe this will help us get on the same level? Despite all the differences we have (and there are a heck of a lot), we just...click. There's something about it. We have our moments. Though I don't know anymore if that will make for a viable future together. (And my last post about being 'miserable'--I got melodramatic. I'd just finished being reamed out by my dad's girlfriend who accused me of 'being ashamed' of my background and trying to fit in this world that I'll never fit into (my boyfriend's) and that I need to 'grow up' and start realizing that I'm 'no one special'. She had me convinced that I was a horribly immature person and that I was absolutely miserable with my boyfriend. But everything about the differences between my boyfriend and I is on the level.)
Kamille Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Yesterday, after reading your post about being miserable, all I could think was "where did that come from?". I wondered if maybe you weren't doing something I've done in the past: hold my boyfriends responsible for my happiness. Which would lead to me nitpicking on them. Of course, I'm not denying that a bad relationship doesn't lead to misery, but unlike what most people think here - I really think your situation is repairable. And your last posts proves it: I repeat again: I think what your boyfriend needs is space to do some of the caring work in the relationship. Sounds like he is completely capable of showing you he loves and cares for you on his own terms. And isn't that a great thing?
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