Anthem Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 Hi All: New guy here......I don't want to bore you with the details of the drama, but is anyone here in California? Riverside county to be exact? Wife and I are divorcing. 2 children. We have a Marital Stip agreement signed and submitted. It got kicked back for this reason: REJECTED DOCUMENT(S) JUDGMENT SUBMITTED BY ______ FOR THE FOLLOWING REASON(S): UPON JUDICIAL REVIEW IT HAS BEEN DETERMINED THAT, YOUR JUDGMENT BE RETURNED FOR CORRECTIONS RE: ANY PROCEEDING TO DETERMINE CHILD CUSTODY AND/OR VISITATION MUST CONTAIN LANGUAGE PURSUANT TO FC 3048(A). 3048(A)1 (BASIS OF JURISDICTION) 3048 (A)2 (MANNER OF NOTICE AND OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEARD) 3048 A (4) (WARNING THAT VIOLATION SUBJECT TO CIVIL AND CRIMINAL PENALTIES. SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, COUNTY OF RIVERSIDE, FAMILY LAW DIVISION - 4175 MAIN ST. RIVERSIDE, CA 92501 This is the third time it has been rejected. I feel like I am too far down the road to switch attorney's......anyone familiar with this? Any help would be greatly appreciated.......I am completely frustrated.....Thinking about getting back with my wife because that would be simpler then dealing with this ****e....lol
GorillaTheater Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 Not in California, but it sounds like there's "form" language that needs to be included in the agreement. That's not too unusual; there are alot of statutory requirements along those lines in all areas of the law. Make sure you read the referenced statutes (they may include, verbatim, the required language), and look for online forms including the required language.
2sure Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 I'm not Cali but I dont have to be. It sounds as though your attorney simply does not know how to file the proper paperwork. Maybe the other times it was rejected for a different reason...but this seems pretty clear. Ask him how many times you will be billed hours for standard paperwork not submitted correctly by him/her. Are you by any chance simply consulting an attorney but filing yourself??
GorillaTheater Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 I'm not Cali but I dont have to be. It sounds as though your attorney simply does not know how to file the proper paperwork. Maybe the other times it was rejected for a different reason...but this seems pretty clear. Ask him how many times you will be billed hours for standard paperwork not submitted correctly by him/her. Are you by any chance simply consulting an attorney but filing yourself?? Yeah, I was assuming there was no attorney involved. This is pretty blatant malpractice if there was.
Author Anthem Posted July 8, 2009 Author Posted July 8, 2009 I'm not Cali but I dont have to be. It sounds as though your attorney simply does not know how to file the proper paperwork. Maybe the other times it was rejected for a different reason...but this seems pretty clear. Ask him how many times you will be billed hours for standard paperwork not submitted correctly by him/her. Are you by any chance simply consulting an attorney but filing yourself?? Hey..we're alumni.......... Nope..all done by the attorney...first rejection..their mistake...second one..their mistake..third one their mistake..they did not bill me to fix it.... I'm looking for the language......It does appear to be a special form with language. I'm too pissed right now to speak with the attorney's..I want to educate myself a bit more....
klm12330 Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 I am a retired divorce attorney who practiced in California for 23 years in one of the largest and most successful firms in Southern California. At any time I had 100 divorce cases under my control and 90% of them ended in marital settlement agreements. There are several counties in California that would reject our marital settlement agreements and judgment packages multiple times even though the exact paperwork was used and signed by the same judge on a different matter. You anger is clearly misdirected and should be pointed at the clerks and research attorneys in the court. Your attorney sounds like they are working very hard on their own dime for you. Rather than complain about those that are trying to help you why don't you call them and see if there is anything you could do to help them. After all this is your problem.
Jonesey Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 I am a retired divorce attorney who practiced in California for 23 years in one of the largest and most successful firms in Southern California. At any time I had 100 divorce cases under my control and 90% of them ended in marital settlement agreements. There are several counties in California that would reject our marital settlement agreements and judgment packages multiple times even though the exact paperwork was used and signed by the same judge on a different matter. You anger is clearly misdirected and should be pointed at the clerks and research attorneys in the court. Your attorney sounds like they are working very hard on their own dime for you. Rather than complain about those that are trying to help you why don't you call them and see if there is anything you could do to help them. After all this is your problem. You wouldn't happen to be his dumb**s attorney would you? Friend, we pay lawyers to interpret the law and provide a service to us based on that interpretation and best course of legal action on our behalf. Why on earth should he have to do any legwork besides his personal details/docs to this dimwit? J
klm12330 Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I have been out of the practice of law for a while but just so you all know when you hire an attorney you enter into a partnership with them. You do not just dump documents on them and expect your problems to magically go away. Name calling in an obviously stressful situation during a divorce is not helpful by the way. Which county has the divorce been filed in?
mark982 Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 no, we don't expect our problems to majically disappear. but we do expect you to earn your money. not asking us to do leg work,that's attorneys job.
Star Gazer Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Not in California, but it sounds like there's "form" language that needs to be included in the agreement. That's not too unusual; there are alot of statutory requirements along those lines in all areas of the law. Make sure you read the referenced statutes (they may include, verbatim, the required language), and look for online forms including the required language. Agreed. FC 3408(a) says this: (a) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, in any proceeding to determine child custody or visitation with a child, every custody or visitation order shall contain all of the following: (1) The basis for the court's exercise of jurisdiction. (2) The manner in which notice and opportunity to be heard were given. (3) A clear description of the custody and visitation rights of each party. (4) A provision stating that a violation of the order may subject the party in violation to civil or criminal penalties, or both. (5) Identification of the country of habitual residence of the child or children. It appears that your agreement is missing items (1), (2), and (4). I don't practice family law, but a simple review of the statute tells me that your proposed order needs the following information: (1) - Should explain that you, wife, and children reside within Riverside County. (2) - Should explain how you provided notice to your wife of these proceedings. You must explain how you gave notice to her (phone, email, fax, personal service), and that you gave her notice of what the particular hearing/proceeding is, when it is, where it is, who it's before (judge/department), and when you gave her that notice. (4) - Have no idea what that is, but it appears that your proposed order simply needs to include a provision putting everyone on notice that violation to civil or criminal penalties. Yeah, I was assuming there was no attorney involved. This is pretty blatant malpractice if there was. Agreed. As a meager law clerk in law school I was able to get family law filings right, each and every time. Your attorney sounds like they are working very hard on their own dime for you. Rather than complain about those that are trying to help you why don't you call them and see if there is anything you could do to help them. After all this is your problem. You're KIDDING, right? Quite honestly, if you were my attorney and had that attitude, I'd report you to the State Bar. I have a feeling "retired" in your case really means "disbarred" or "resigned pending disciplinary action."
Owl Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I have been out of the practice of law for a while but just so you all know when you hire an attorney you enter into a partnership with them. You do not just dump documents on them and expect your problems to magically go away. Name calling in an obviously stressful situation during a divorce is not helpful by the way. Which county has the divorce been filed in? I disagree. I HIRE an attorney (your words). That means I'm paying him to conduct a specific service for me. It's not a partnership...I'm the guy paying the money (usually far more than I can in anyways comfortably afford) to accomplish a task. Just the same as if I'd hired a contractor to paint my house. I set specific goals, I coordinate with them to ensure that they meet my requirements, and I provide them with all needed materials and assets from my side to accomplish those goals, but I'm not their partner, nor do I tell them how to do their job. I pay them to competently execute what they say that they can do. If they can't do it, they either find a way to get it done, or they don't get paid for their inability to accomplish the contract we agreed to. In this case, the OP is PAYING the lawyer to do that legwork of interfacing with the courts and clerks and such. It's NOT the OP's job to hold those clerks accountable...that's specifically a part of what he's paying the lawyer to do. He's absolutely justified in holding the lawyer accountable for accomplishing this. It's not a partnership...it's a 'paid for services' interaction.
klm12330 Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I offer my comments to assist you people in dealing with your cases, I am leaving this thread now as it has become a vehicle for people to vent about bad experiences they have had with an attorney. If you would prefer a better result with your attorneys in the future you should treat them with the utmost respect that they deserve and treat your relationship like a partnership. Good luck to you all
GorillaTheater Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 If you would prefer a better result with your attorneys in the future you should treat them with the utmost respect that they deserve Jesus... At least a couple of the posters on this thread (other than your esteemed self, I mean) are attorneys. Attorneys provide a service, and they'd better provide that service with quality and professionalism. If they do, sure, they deserve respect. On par with that of a good mechanic or accountant.
Owl Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Who here is angry at you? Not I. I'm only pointing out to you the flaw in your thinking. A marriage is a partnership. Hiring a lawyer is a paid, professional relationship...and nothing more. You treat a lawyer with the same respect you treat EVERYONE. There's nothing unreasonable or even angry with expecting a lawyer to accomplish the tasks for which he/she is well paid to do. Just as the lawyer expects you to provide them all needed information/resources/money required to accomplish said tasks. Not rocket science. And not angry with you either. Just disagreeing with you.
Author Anthem Posted July 13, 2009 Author Posted July 13, 2009 I am a retired divorce attorney who practiced in California for 23 years in one of the largest and most successful firms in Southern California. At any time I had 100 divorce cases under my control and 90% of them ended in marital settlement agreements. There are several counties in California that would reject our marital settlement agreements and judgment packages multiple times even though the exact paperwork was used and signed by the same judge on a different matter. You anger is clearly misdirected and should be pointed at the clerks and research attorneys in the court. Your attorney sounds like they are working very hard on their own dime for you. Rather than complain about those that are trying to help you why don't you call them and see if there is anything you could do to help them. After all this is your problem. You really should have stopped at the end of the bold font above. Everything after that makes you sound like a total douchebag......of course not as big of a douchebag as your follow up posts in this thread.....but nonetheless...... So, yeah, sounds like you worked as hard as my attorney's. Using the EXACT SAME agreement for all of your cases......tell me something...did you ever forget to change the names of the parties in any of your agreements? Mine did........of course they didn't catch that one...I did...but I can see how you can think they are working hard.... Everything is clear, thank you for whoever posted the language of the FC, I found that as well. It should be all fixed and ready to go..... Sorry to go on a mini rant.....lol
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