Epsilon Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 I'm just saying, personality matters. Shyness and fear of rejection plagues many people such as myself, and so it's all a function of poor advertising, really. People may be bad at showing their strong suits more ostensibly. That's why many turn to PUA for some advice on what to do, but it usually backfires while guys like Strauss profit.
samspade Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Lame reality shows aside, PUA techniques do work, if you consider that the goal is to seduce a woman as quickly as possible. Probably the biggest key is that it is a numbers game. Not all women are interested in being taken home that night, and PUA techniques aren't like "The Force" in Star Wars - they won't cast a spell on a woman who isn't interested. The other key is working on your own personality being interesting; this is something that can't be forced or faked. I agree that you're not likely to forge a long-lasting relationship out of a one night stand, but I don't believe that is the goal. So to say that a PUA is unfulfilled is a bit slight; if he is living the lifestyle he wants, he is fulfilled. I also think it's silly to knock the women who go home with these guys. Just because they are open to having a one night stand, it does not mean that they are dumb, or sluts, or what have you. After all, they're people with brains, and decision-making faculties, and if you're any kind of feminist, you should at the very least support a woman's right to bang who she wants, when she wants, rather than blithely dismissing them as bimbos. The criticism that guys trying these techniques for the first time are losers who never got laid (while often true) is absurd. If they never got laid, they are obviously doing something wrong. If this is the lifestyle they are interested in, and they are looking to improve themselves, more power to them. I admit, the nerds on the Pickup Artist are part minstrel, for our own enjoyment and self-aggrandizement. That's reality TV for you. But any guy who is looking to pursue the life he wants shouldn't be begrudged that. One night stands and casual sex aren't for everyone, but if two willing parties are interested, I don't see the point in complaining about it. Not EVERY sexual act has to lead to a quote-unquote meaningful relationship. Not every one night stand is meaningless. (Insert STD joke here.) Live and let live.
Woggle Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Well put. This is my biggest beef with the whole PUA community. Their entire lives revolved around women. Sure, I like women as much as the next hetero-type guy, but fercryinoutloud there are other things in life! Exactly and what they don't realize is that the less you focus on finding a woman the more women will want you. Men should build their own lives and the women will come naturally. These PUAs are obsessed with getting women. If you ask them to just hang out with the guys and have some fun they want nothing to do with it.
Phateless Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Exactly and what they don't realize is that the less you focus on finding a woman the more women will want you. Men should build their own lives and the women will come naturally. These PUAs are obsessed with getting women. If you ask them to just hang out with the guys and have some fun they want nothing to do with it. You're wrong. What you just said is one of the prime pieces of advice on those forums. I love how everyone here is claiming to know all about this without even visiting the site. Go browse the forums BEFORE making statements you can't support.
Woggle Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 You're wrong. What you just said is one of the prime pieces of advice on those forums. I love how everyone here is claiming to know all about this without even visiting the site. Go browse the forums BEFORE making statements you can't support. I know a few of these types and their entire existence outside of paying bills is devoted to getting women. They have no other hobby or joy in life whatsoever. If men had more male centered activities that did not involve trying to pick up women then they would not hold so much power over us.
Phateless Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 I know a few of these types and their entire existence outside of paying bills is devoted to getting women. They have no other hobby or joy in life whatsoever. If men had more male centered activities that did not involve trying to pick up women then they would not hold so much power over us. And you think they are that way because of some stupid little game? No. Those guys would be like that anyway. Like I said, do your research before pretending you know about something. The assumptions and conjecture and uneducated conclusions thrown around in this thread are starting to piss me off. Not as someone who reads pua material, but as a critical thinker!
kizik Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 The other key is working on your own personality being interesting; this is something that can't be forced or faked. Yep. PUAs really are just trying to shortcut the fact that they could care less about women as people... you know, living, breathing beings with hearts and souls. Seems to me that the art of picking up is exactly about not valuing women as people, and placing getting your dick wet at the top of life's priorities. Pretty creepy sh*t. Guys who do this and who study up on it are pathetic, end of story. Pick-up stuff is essentially a replacement for the fact that you have no goddamn soul. Ooh, Phateless will like my comment.
Phateless Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 As Sam says, PUAs really are just trying to shortcut the fact that they could care less about women as people... you know, living, breathing beings with hearts and souls. Seems to me that the art of picking up is exactly about not valuing women as people, and placing getting your dick wet at the top of life's priorities. Pretty creepy sh*t. Guys who do this and who study up on it are pathetic, end of story. Pick-up stuff is essentially a replacement for the fact that you have no goddamn soul. haha wow, you really don't get it. Pickup is for nerdy guys who just don't know what to do around women. Simple as that. It's not "evil." It's just an instruction book for the socially retarded.
kizik Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Well listen, have you seen "Magnolia"? Respect the c*ck, tame the c*nt? Those are the guys I'm referring to.
Phateless Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Well listen, have you seen "Magnolia"? Respect the c*ck, tame the c*nt? Those are the guys I'm referring to. Yes, because MOVIES are always accurate to real life... Have you seen Transformers? Great flick.
Woggle Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Yep. PUAs really are just trying to shortcut the fact that they could care less about women as people... you know, living, breathing beings with hearts and souls. Seems to me that the art of picking up is exactly about not valuing women as people, and placing getting your dick wet at the top of life's priorities. Pretty creepy sh*t. Guys who do this and who study up on it are pathetic, end of story. Pick-up stuff is essentially a replacement for the fact that you have no goddamn soul. Ooh, Phateless will like my comment. I am not a PUA and at this point I have grown pretty much cold to most women. I don't hate all of them but I have lost sympathy because they create 95% of the drama they bring in to their lives and they couldn't care less about us so why should we care about them?
kizik Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Yes, because MOVIES are always accurate to real life... Have you seen Transformers? Great flick. You're telling me there aren't different sects of these guys, some more predatory than others? I don't buy it. I don't hate all of them but I have lost sympathy because they create 95% of the drama they bring in to their lives and they couldn't care less about us so why should we care about them? Woggle, dude. Sounding pretty mad there.
Woggle Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 You're telling me there aren't different sects of these guys, some more predatory than others? I don't buy it. Woggle, you got issues, buddy. Sounding pretty mad there. Maybe I have issues but maybe I just see things for how they are. If these PUAs could stop focusing on women 24/7 it might not be a bad approach. In the end players are usually the winners in the dating game.
Phateless Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 I am not a PUA and at this point I have grown pretty much cold to most women. I don't hate all of them but I have lost sympathy because they create 95% of the drama they bring in to their lives and they couldn't care less about us so why should we care about them? THAT is the attitude to be afraid of. PUA stuff teaches to respect and cherish women - to contribute something worthwhile and leave them better then you found them. Make sure they have a good time, enjoy your company and are enriched by your presence. PUA stuff emphasizes self improvement above all else. When I feel motivated I'll paste some stuff in but I'm guessing nobody will read it because it will challenge their pre-formed and uneducated opinion. I'm pissed because people are making all sorts of assumptions when they have NO IDEA what they are talking about.
kizik Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 When I feel motivated I'll paste some stuff in but I'm guessing nobody will read it because it will challenge their pre-formed and uneducated opinion. I'm pissed because people are making all sorts of assumptions when they have NO IDEA what they are talking about. Allow me to say that I'd like to read those posts, and I'm happy to reconsider my opinion of the group you are talking about. As you know, most of my worldviews are shaped by movies... Natural Born Killers has set the course of my life...
Phateless Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Allow me to say that I'd like to read those posts, and I'm happy to reconsider my opinion of the group you are talking about. As you know, most of my worldviews are shaped by movies... Natural Born Killers has set the course of my life... Go do some reading for yourself. http://www.theattractionforums.com
shadowplay Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 This thread has been hilarious to read. Thanks, Taramere. Here's my lengthy response. Per your suggestions I just watched a few clips of Mystery. He seems to have a mixture of narcissistic and sociopathic qualities. There's a robotic quality to his voice and his eyes look dead. I can see the twitchiness TBF mentioned. It comes off as negative energy rather than the invigorating kind. It's like he has this well of anger/nastiness inside that he's trying to subdue. Kind of creepy. Needless to say he's not in the least bit appealing or attractive. While I agree that pua techniques are icky and I wouldn't date a guy who calculatingly studied and employed them, it's fun to analyze what works and what doesn't. Here's a personality style that tends to attract me. I have to acknowledge that I can be attracted to a guy based on a purely superficial impression, even knowing that's all it is. Attracted at least enough to want to get to know him better. Unfortunately, there's a natural talent to doing it that many can't fake. The kind of guys who are so socially inept that they "need" Mystery's help probably wouldn't benefit from it anyway, because they’ll end up looking even more foolish. Here are some superficial cues that tend to attract me: 1) A guy who alternates between high and medium/low energy. One indicator is somebody who gesticulates when he’s talking about something that really excites him and speaks with a clear, projecting voice. That shows confidence and masculinity. But it seems to work best when he directs it at somebody other than the woman of his interest, like another guy. Also little things like a guy who walks quickly with a slight spring in his step. But he also displays some composure. You might meet him relaxing and reading a book, but when a topic really interests him he suddenly becomes animated. His energy can ebb and flow within a lively discussion. Just when he’s getting really excited, he’ll stop to light a cigarette. It’s this teasing “could-couldn't-give-a-f” thing. 2) Dark, acerbic wit. With a short phrase or two he can bite through the BS around him. Especially sexy if his humor combines high and low. There might be vulgar aspects, but a key word choice here and there also shows that he reads. Basically a good balance of street smarts and culture. I think the perfect example is Christian Slater's character in Heathers: Man he was my sexy as hell in that movie if you ignore the sociopathic part. :love: 3) Boldness and spontaneity. This is something Mystery kind of hints at, but I don’t think he gets it right. If a guy approaches me and says something I’m not expecting, but I find funny, that can pique my interest. In other words, it can’t be a canned line; it has to be spontaneous and creative. Maybe he’ll point out something funny in our immediate environment to say “isn’t this bull****” that makes us both laugh. It has to be artfully done. Slight goofiness can also work if done well, but it's riskier. Playfulness is a turn on. 4) High interest. If a girl finds you attractive your high interest will be a turn on. As a side-note, I’ve noticed the men with these qualities are often good actors, either on a professional or amateur basis. Being charismatic naturally involves putting on a bit of an act and skill at mimicking others. Acting also goes along with creativity and quick-wittedness, which are sexy attributes. In fact taking acting classes might be a good investment for men who have trouble approaching women because it will improve their confidence and social skills. A much better investment than taking seduction courses taught by losers. Talk about the blind leading the blind! I have to say that I'm irritated when people claim that there's no manipulation whatsoever involved in successfully approaching women or even socializing in general. I agree that conscious manipulation is a turn off, but most charismatic people are good manipulators on a less conscious level. That seems like a bit of an oxymoron, but imagine somebody who acts a certain way because they've been conditioned to since childhood. Charismatic people are performers. They're good at putting on a show, and they enjoy the attention they get for it. With enough positive reinforcement it becomes an ingrained part of their facade. This isn't bad, because other people benefit from their entertainment. I enjoy charismatic people, but I also realize that I'm being drawn in by a somewhat superficial (albeit entertaining) trait that doesn't say much about the person within. However, it's a trait I also look for in a mate, because I want somebody who I can have fun with. So it's good for piquing but not sustaining interest.
kizik Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Here's some of the genius info from the above link (and here): What are some of your favorite banter lines? Let's put together a list of phrases we use to banter, tease girls, etc. Personally I like hiring / firing girls Telling them they look like trouble and Giving them #'s What are your some of your favorite banter lines? You're bad girls, aren't you? You're a dork! You don't get out much, do you? You're cute, like my little sister. - Which one of you guys would win in a fight? - You're taking this way too seriously - Stop flirting with me - If that were true, you wouldn't love me - You must've driven your parents crazy - Give me a kiss on the cheek, and maybe I'll let you forgive me - I'm too high maintenance for you - What else do you like about me? - I'm so out of your league - Let's play a game. Let's see how long you can hold your breath - You're back to square one with me, missy - You're so outside the circle of trust - How short are you? - You're such a player - You guys remind me of the Power Puff Girls/or/ You guys are like watching The View - Do your parents know where you are - Isn't this a school night - You're makeup is smudged - Bartender, you might want to check this girl's ID again - We should hang out some time. You can help me pick up chicks - You girls aren't toursists, are you? - Holy ****, you really don't know what you're doing, do you? - Careful girl, I'm a heartbreak waiting to happen - Your ex boyfriend sounds just like me - I'm so emotionally unavailable right now - I think you might make a nice friend - We need to find you a man - We would never get along
Phateless Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Here's some of the genius info from the above link (and here): What are some of your favorite banter lines? Let's put together a list of phrases we use to banter, tease girls, etc. Personally I like hiring / firing girls Telling them they look like trouble and Giving them #'s What are your some of your favorite banter lines? You're bad girls, aren't you? You're a dork! You don't get out much, do you? You're cute, like my little sister. - Which one of you guys would win in a fight? - You're taking this way too seriously - Stop flirting with me - If that were true, you wouldn't love me - You must've driven your parents crazy - Give me a kiss on the cheek, and maybe I'll let you forgive me - I'm too high maintenance for you - What else do you like about me? - I'm so out of your league - Let's play a game. Let's see how long you can hold your breath - You're back to square one with me, missy - You're so outside the circle of trust - How short are you? - You're such a player - You guys remind me of the Power Puff Girls/or/ You guys are like watching The View - Do your parents know where you are - Isn't this a school night - You're makeup is smudged - Bartender, you might want to check this girl's ID again - We should hang out some time. You can help me pick up chicks - You girls aren't toursists, are you? - Holy ****, you really don't know what you're doing, do you? - Careful girl, I'm a heartbreak waiting to happen - Your ex boyfriend sounds just like me - I'm so emotionally unavailable right now - I think you might make a nice friend - We need to find you a man - We would never get along Basic flirting. AGAIN, how is this any different from the content of a Cosmo magazine?
Woggle Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 The best way to attract women is simply not making them a priority. I can hang out in a room and to me the women in that room don't even exist. The less you want them the more they want though. This attitude works.
Phateless Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 I kind of agree. The last list is hilarious. Isn't it? It's just a bunch of smartass remarks you can say if you're stuck. Think of the scene in Legally Blond where Reese Witherspoon teaches the old lady how to get the UPS guy's attention. Trading tactics. Same thing.
kizik Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 OK, yes. I think these are all great, but if you're already clever and such (like you, Phateless), then you don't need them. IN FACT - attempting to incorporate some stand-up routine into your natural game and charisma is a bad idea. Just be you. Anyway, all of those lines really just point to one idea - BE FUNNY and tease girls a bit. Never cruelly, never about their looks. Never anything personal. Just, "Hey, I'm a little emotionally unavailable right now", etc. I like it.
shadowplay Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Isn't it? It's just a bunch of smartass remarks you can say if you're stuck. Think of the scene in Legally Blond where Reese Witherspoon teaches the old lady how to get the UPS guy's attention. Trading tactics. Same thing. Hilarious as in those lines would never work, unless you're picking up bimbos. A girl with half a brain wouldn't be impressed. Those lines aren't even witty, and most of them are too insulting.
kizik Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 "What else do you like about me?" "You are SO outside the circle of trust"... Shadowplay.
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