donnamaybe Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 No. I'm saying they've had to learn how to get their foot in the door because nice and straight forward gets them rejected or made fun of 9 times out of 10. Most guys would VASTLY prefer walking up to a girl without fear and saying, "Hi. I think you're pretty. Can I buy you a drink and talk to you?" Unfortunately that doesn't usually work, so men resort to alternate tactics. So then you're saying there ARE no nice girls? I suspect not, and if that's the case, then why say "Those same girls will be bitchy to the nice genuine guy (who she SAYS she wants to meet) when he asks if he can buy her a drink and be all over the bad boy cocky jerk."
Trimmer Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Oh, so are you saying the PUA guys are focusing solely on the bitches to sort of "put them in their place?" I thought the idea wasn't "put them in their place" so much as "get them back to my place..."
Phateless Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 So then you're saying there ARE no nice girls? I suspect not, and if that's the case, then why say "Those same girls will be bitchy to the nice genuine guy (who she SAYS she wants to meet) when he asks if he can buy her a drink and be all over the bad boy cocky jerk." No. Please stop exaggerating everything I say. I'm saying it TENDS not to work. I said 9 times out 10 not 10 times out of 10. Of course there are nice girls, I'm dating one, but most girls don't react well to a direct approach like that. Given the choice, why say something that gets you rejected more often as opposed to something that gets you rejected less often? Game is a response to the way things are.
Phateless Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I thought the idea wasn't "put them in their place" so much as "get them back to my place..." The idea is to disarm them so they're not defensive and confrontational. You learn to read through body language and other subtle signs who you can approach direct and sweet and who is going to be mad at you for standing near her. EDIT - Surfer Dude has it dead on.
burning 4 revenge Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I would say if asked to choose between Neil Strauss book and taking Extendze for a 30 day trial period ($29.95 money back guarantee except in Alaska and Hawaii /void where prohibited....If it didn't do what we say it does could we afford to do this) I would have to go with the latter
Stockalone Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 And then the guy will talk about the gal with his friends later and call her a slut for having sex with him. Of course it isn't ALWAYS the case, but in the case of MOST of the types of guys who are trying to work PUA tactics I'm certain it is. Yes, that's probably true for the majority of men who do that. I believe that is because most of those men think of women as the gatekeepers of sex, and the men who need to get past the gatekeeper (regardless of what it takes to do it). I share some of the views, though not all. And I couldn't do that over the top PUA stuff. I'd either burst out laughing because of the ridiculousness of the things I am supposed to do or I'd be too disgusted with the methods to actually do it. But I also have to adopted certain things. I learned that being too open about your flaws is a mistake. Don't get me wrong, I don't hide them and if the woman asks about my flaws, I'll tell her. But I stopped volunteering such informations. A woman will pick up on them rather quickly anyway. In fact, if I remember correctly, Stock is one guy who is very adamant that a gal have an almost non-existent sex life prior to meeting him. Forgive me if I've got the wrong member, Stock, but wasn't that you? Not that you are the type to do that, because if I also remember correctly, you don't sleep around either. Yes, that's me. Though I use the phrasing "an almost non-existent sex life outside of commited relationships" prior to meeting me. A small distinction, probably just a question of semantics, but nonetheless important from my POV. And you are correct in that I don't sleep around.
donnamaybe Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I thought the idea wasn't "put them in their place" so much as "get them back to my place..." HA!!! You're so funny!
donnamaybe Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 No. Please stop exaggerating everything I say. I didn't exaggerate what you said, I quoted directly from what you said. I was simply trying to understand you, not put you on the spot. Of course there are nice girls, I'm dating one, but most girls don't react well to a direct approach like that. I wouldn't know, since I don't try to form intimate relationships with women. That's sad, though, that so many women seem to be so - how should I say it? More willing to accept a guy with game rather than just honesty and forthrightness. I like "real" myself.
donnamaybe Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 And I couldn't do that over the top PUA stuff. I'd either burst out laughing because of the ridiculousness of the things I am supposed to do or I'd be too disgusted with the methods to actually do it. Then you're a gentleman. MOST of us women appreciate that.
Phateless Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I didn't exaggerate what you said, I quoted directly from what you said. I was simply trying to understand you, not put you on the spot. I was referring to me making general statements and you responding to them as if they were absolutes. I wouldn't know, since I don't try to form intimate relationships with women. That's sad, though, that so many women seem to be so - how should I say it? More willing to accept a guy with game rather than just honesty and forthrightness. I like "real" myself. I agree with you, it's very sad. Now that I've found my confidence and learned how to read people better, I know that it's mostly about not coming on too strong at first. One of my close friends is caught up with a guy who won't give her the title while one of my other close guy friends (great guy!) likes her but she just doesn't see him that way. C'est la vie!
Untouchable_Fire Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 No. I'm saying they've had to learn how to get their foot in the door because nice and straight forward gets them rejected or made fun of 9 times out of 10. Most guys would VASTLY prefer walking up to a girl without fear and saying, "Hi. I think you're pretty. Can I buy you a drink and talk to you?" Unfortunately that doesn't usually work, so men resort to alternate tactics. Phateless, It's not the tactics I really object to... it's the goal. Most of those guys are just trying to run a complicated hump and dump. Honestly, I'm not impressed. I don't think that crap takes any skill at all.
shadowplay Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Few random observations. 1) I saw one of those PUA sites once on autocomplete on my brother's computer. It's not surprising to me that guys like my brother would embrace these techniques. He's a very analytical, organized, albeit somewhat clueless guy who likes things reduced to a science, you know? These men probably treat it like learning a new programming language. Even the jargon Mystery uses like treating groups of women as "sets" appeals to the dorky audience. 2) I watched a clip of Neil Strauss displaying one of his techniques, and somebody posted an interesting comment about his and Mystery's grooming style. Sure, at first glance their androgyny seems sleazy and off-putting to us (Mystery's nail polish and Neil's piercings), but the poster observed that it might actually be effective on a lot of women. It makes them look less threatening at first glance because their sexuality becomes ambiguous, so it disarms the woman's bitchiness. It creates an aura of intrigue and a natural challenge for the woman, like are they/aren't they into me? And these guys probably stand out among the hordes of machismo men who approach them. Even Neil Strauss's demeanor is very effeminate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aWoN8MvGKw If you close your eyes he sounds a bit like Ira Glass. I know this technique wouldn't work on more mature, perceptive women, but I can see it working on a lot of less experienced gals. In fact, when I was younger this probably would have been effective on me.
espec10001 Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Where do you live? I live in the New Jersey/New York metro area. Yeah they don't call New Jersey dirty for nothing but many of the chicks don't take s*** from men, just like a lot of the guys don't take s*** from the women. It all comes from experience, women around here with experience and solid, loving family will drop you at the first sign of disrespect so you gotta respect them and get it in return! But I dig chicks with attitude, you might not. I learned my lesson the hard way MANY times don't f*** with a girl from Jersey haha!
shadowplay Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Just to clarify. My younger self would have still been repulsed by PUAs by Mystery (too ridiculous and gross), but some androgyny in moderation might have been effective on me.
Untouchable_Fire Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I know this technique wouldn't work on more mature, perceptive women, but I can see it working on a lot of less experienced gals. In fact, when I was younger this probably would have been effective on me. Maybe, but I doubt it. I think if they succeed it is despite their appearance. I live in the New Jersey/New York metro area. Yeah they don't call New Jersey dirty for nothing but many of the chicks don't take s*** from men, just like a lot of the guys don't take s*** from the women. It all comes from experience, women around here with experience and solid, loving family will drop you at the first sign of disrespect so you gotta respect them and get it in return! But I dig chicks with attitude, you might not. I learned my lesson the hard way MANY times don't f*** with a girl from Jersey haha! I like my women feminine. Any attitude has to fit within that confine. My GF now has an amazing temper. It drives me up the wall because I am not a passive guy... so things can get explosive, which is unhealthy. I keep telling her that at some point she is going to have to actually believe that I have her best interests at heart. Her outbursts are very counterproductive.... I can't see how that would turn you on. No surprise, I didn't like Jersey girls all that much.
Phateless Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Phateless, It's not the tactics I really object to... it's the goal. Most of those guys are just trying to run a complicated hump and dump. Honestly, I'm not impressed. I don't think that crap takes any skill at all. I see what you're saying and I totally agree. In fact, most guys on the board will flame the people who do that. The goal is never to hurt anybody. Those people will do that one way or the other. The nice guys still want a gf and the jerks don't care. Pua tactics are just one method. It seems that people associate pua with lying womanizer, which isn't necessarily the case.
kizik Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 My GF now has an amazing temper. It drives me up the wall because I am not a passive guy... so things can get explosive, which is unhealthy. I keep telling her that at some point she is going to have to actually believe that I have her best interests at heart. Her outbursts are very counterproductive... Dude, keep an eye on that. You're too cool to let some girl push you around.
shadowplay Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Maybe, but I doubt it. I think if they succeed it is despite their appearance. I like my women feminine. Any attitude has to fit within that confine. My GF now has an amazing temper. It drives me up the wall because I am not a passive guy... so things can get explosive, which is unhealthy. I keep telling her that at some point she is going to have to actually believe that I have her best interests at heart. Her outbursts are very counterproductive.... I can't see how that would turn you on. No surprise, I didn't like Jersey girls all that much. Not so sure. I think the androgyny look definitely appeals to some women. Ever notice that many young women like pretty looking men? Observe the pop stars idolized in Japan by teenage girls. Rock stars also tend to dress in an androgynous way: Dave Navarro, David Bowie, eighties hair bands . Even the whole vampire look that's now in with the Twilight series is rather androgynous (the men look like they're wearing makeup). If you're trying to appeal to more conservative or mature women it probably wouldn't work, but I definitely can see it being effective on a certain type. At the hippy school where I started my college career, I remember the girls drooling all over the androgynous magician/circus guys who remind me of Mystery.
Stockalone Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Then you're a gentleman. MOST of us women appreciate that. Sure, women appreciate that. Being a gentleman is like being nice. It's a welcome bonus in a SO, but not necessarily a prerequisite. I am usually the guy that the GF will point out to her BF and say: "You know, you really could be more like him sometimes." To which the response has been more than once "Yeah, but you want to f*ck me and not him." But to br fair, that has nothing to do with me being a gentleman or not.
Trimmer Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Even Neil Strauss's demeanor is very effeminate: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aWoN8MvGKw If you close your eyes he sounds a bit like Ira Glass. I hope that wasn't a diss - Ira Glass is a f***in' rock star in my life... I'm sure my macho rating would be way lower if the dudes around me in the weight room at the gym knew I was listening to TAL on my iPod while lifting!
shadowplay Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I hope that wasn't a diss - Ira Glass is a f***in' rock star in my life... I'm sure my macho rating would be way lower if the dudes around me in the weight room at the gym knew I was listening to TAL on my iPod while lifting! LOL! You're such a dork. Don't get me wrong, I love Ira Glass, but he's not the most masculine guy. He sets off my gaydar, even though I know he's not.
Author Taramere Posted July 10, 2009 Author Posted July 10, 2009 Not so sure. I think the androgyny look definitely appeals to some women. Ever notice that many young women like pretty looking men? Observe the pop stars idolized in Japan by teenage girls. Rock stars also tend to dress in an androgynous way: Dave Navarro, David Bowie, eighties hair bands . Even the whole vampire look that's now in with the Twilight series is rather androgynous (the men look like they're wearing makeup). I agree. A prancing twat-with-a-cock like Mystery could make girls feel that they were being daring, edgy and sexually experimental - while letting them steer safely clear of real men and adulthood. He must be close to the end of his shelf life for that kind of thing, though.
Untouchable_Fire Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Dude, keep an eye on that. You're too cool to let some girl push you around. For sure. She isn't the push around manipulative type. More of the jump to conclusions and apologize later type. Anyway... I'm sure it's mostly just baggage from previous relationships and should get better in time. If not I will breeze. Besides sometimes I don't mind fighting from time to time, cause at this point making up is still fun. Not so sure. I think the androgyny look definitely appeals to some women. Ever notice that many young women like pretty looking men? Observe the pop stars idolized in Japan by teenage girls. Rock stars also tend to dress in an androgynous way: Dave Navarro, David Bowie, eighties hair bands . Even the whole vampire look that's now in with the Twilight series is rather androgynous (the men look like they're wearing makeup). If you're trying to appeal to more conservative or mature women it probably wouldn't work, but I definitely can see it being effective on a certain type. At the hippy school where I started my college career, I remember the girls drooling all over the androgynous magician/circus guys who remind me of Mystery. I think that has to do with availability. Many guys at that age just have not developed... so those girls are just attracted to men their age. That's my theory anyway. Those guys would probably be MORE attractive if they looked more masculine. Studies have shown that women of all ages are more attracted to masculine features as their estrogen levels increase.
Island Girl Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I'd rip on her a bit if she was putting on a bitch act and giving me a hard time. So if she isn't attracted to you in the least and does not give you any mixed signals or waste your time and hers - if she lets you know up front that you should look elsewhere for your target -- she is automatically putting on a bitch act and giving YOU a hard time. You walked up to her without invitation. She didn't smile at you or lock eyes with you, etc. YOU went up to HER. But she's a bitch for not wanting you OR your time, energy, etc. Okay Got it. These little remarks are designed to lower their bitch shield and to let them know they can't intimidate you. Because any girl who isn't interested in you is putting up a bitch shield. Riiiiiiight. It couldn't be that you aren't what she is attracted to, or that she has a man, etc. It is just a bitch shield that she puts up to fake men out. So if I make a seemingly rude remark, it shows I'm not intimidated by her and that I think she isn't anything special. She will start thinking "wow, this guy isn't supplicating... he actually has value". This alludes to the self esteem issues. A woman with healthy confidence and self esteem couldn't care less what YOU think about her. She doesn't evaluate herself by what others think. Only a woman who is lacking would pay any attention. And that same woman, with healthy perspective, would just think, "what a complete tool!" and write you off. I suppose she'd then be putting up a bitch shield right? It couldn't have anything to do with you showing her from the beginning that you are a graduate of tool school. If a woman is compliant, accepts me and doesn't give me sh*t for approaching her, I have no need whatsoever to neg her, I will immediately get to talking, creating connection etc. And if she is not "compliant" and doesn't want to spend even a minute wasting your time or hers?? Oh yeah. She is just putting up a bitch shield. It isn't that she is a rational person who picks and chooses based on her own personal preferences. Everyone else in the world can do that but women (especially pretty ones) should be "compliant" when any guy approaches.:rolleyes::sick: I wholeheartedly agree with Untouchable Fire. I can agree with Phateless. Every once in a while you say something I can almost agree with... But you subscribe to all of it. Everything. Any woman who isn't interested in you is written off as having a "bitch shield", sexual hang ups, or has been programmed in some way. It is more than a little disconcerting that there are more like you walking around thinking of women as toys put here for your amusement. I seem to remember you will never take a girl to any restaurant more expensive than McDonalds...and in fact you don't even do that because you don't date. I think you outlined your position (it says a lot about how you view women) pretty well here: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t178277/?highlight=McDonalds Yes...your dating ideas are, um, interesting. Now, after all of this, I am sure you are thinking "It works for me and I get to have sex with girls. I don't care what you think." OH! But that'd mean all you're doing is putting up a bitch shield Surfer Dude. You can't really feel that way!
sally4sara Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 So if she isn't attracted to you in the least and does not give you any mixed signals or waste your time and hers - if she lets you know up front that you should look elsewhere for your target -- she is automatically putting on a bitch act and giving YOU a hard time. You walked up to her without invitation. She didn't smile at you or lock eyes with you, etc. YOU went up to HER. But she's a bitch for not wanting you OR your time, energy, etc. Okay Got it. Because any girl who isn't interested in you is putting up a bitch shield. Riiiiiiight. It couldn't be that you aren't what she is attracted to, or that she has a man, etc. It is just a bitch shield that she puts up to fake men out. This alludes to the self esteem issues. A woman with healthy confidence and self esteem couldn't care less what YOU think about her. She doesn't evaluate herself by what others think. Only a woman who is lacking would pay any attention. And that same woman, with healthy perspective, would just think, "what a complete tool!" and write you off. I suppose she'd then be putting up a bitch shield right? It couldn't have anything to do with you showing her from the beginning that you are a graduate of tool school. And if she is not "compliant" and doesn't want to spend even a minute wasting your time or hers?? Oh yeah. She is just putting up a bitch shield. It isn't that she is a rational person who picks and chooses based on her own personal preferences. Everyone else in the world can do that but women (especially pretty ones) should be "compliant" when any guy approaches.:rolleyes::sick: I wholeheartedly agree with Untouchable Fire. I can agree with Phateless. Every once in a while you say something I can almost agree with... But you subscribe to all of it. Everything. Any woman who isn't interested in you is written off as having a "bitch shield", sexual hang ups, or has been programmed in some way. It is more than a little disconcerting that there are more like you walking around thinking of women as toys put here for your amusement. I seem to remember you will never take a girl to any restaurant more expensive than McDonalds...and in fact you don't even do that because you don't date. I think you outlined your position (it says a lot about how you view women) pretty well here: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t178277/?highlight=McDonalds Yes...your dating ideas are, um, interesting. Now, after all of this, I am sure you are thinking "It works for me and I get to have sex with girls. I don't care what you think." OH! But that'd mean all you're doing is putting up a bitch shield Surfer Dude. You can't really feel that way! So Island Girl, is this just a standard neg to see if he'll supplicate and grow compliant? It is almost like he is talking about a wild dog pack. This is what one thinks of during social interaction? Its weird when the retort supports the point huh?
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