jj33 Posted July 13, 2009 Posted July 13, 2009 Athena I know its all overwhelming but I think you miscontrued what I meant. I didnt so much mean "leave" the divorce until you had a job you need to divorce so start the process of making yourself independent with the goal of filing when he is home in December. Start now with all the things people suggested. Open a bank account; start seriously looking for a job; go to this prestigious instition and see if you can start either on a volunteer or part time basis and let them get to know you. That may well lead to full time employment or will at least get some experience relevant to your degree on your resume. The important thing is that you start taking action. You can do this. Big hugs
ForumFool Posted July 14, 2009 Posted July 14, 2009 Fear of making a mistake. Fear of not being loved again. Fear of being alone and miserable. Fear of failure. Athena I am not being mean here I just don't know of any other way to word this....when I made my post to you (the last one) I was very afraid you were going to back peddle and thought you were using the 7k as an excuse to NOT finally get this over with...You keep contact with this man...I fear you will stay stuck forever ...You fear not being loved again ..BUT are you REALLY loved now???? You fear being ALONE...But aren't you alone now???????? You fear failure but your marraige failed with affair NUMBER 1-8 .. You have access to funds...Just do it...You have been going on circles since I joined in Feb.....why wait another 20 years? It IS the house and all your fears...Do you think the family doesn't KNOW he cheats...they do and they talk about it behind your back...how are you a sucess in other's eyes???????????????????????? Mom's husband died...your's has zero respect for you and cheats and cheats and cheats and lies ...lies and plays with your head..I dunno but if I were your kids and most of your family I would respect you for getting OUT of a relationship like this that is so degrading to you as a person...It's pitiful....you will look much better in others eyes (as you seem so focused on that) if you stopped being the poor woman who's husband would rather live over seas and be with a herd of other women....Hon I really REALLY like you but man even I am packing up as I speak to you...If I can do it with no job in the last 15 years, no family, and medical issues that would pop your eyes out....if I can do this you can too..... ....My husband hasn't even cheated on me yet just tried in emails..which was enough.....8 affairs would net him a castration by me..Show some self respect.....lose that b*st*rd even if you lose the house you seem and always have seemed so hung up on that house....STOP emails with him and file $7000.00 or not..you keep saying he makes much money take it and file and stop just talking...... TAYLOR IS RIGHT ...those who keep saying you may need to stay for this or that are not helping you..except to help you stay in this shyt marriage for another dozen or more years...What will you do if HE files on YOU and dumps you first ...with his women on the side...Don't end up in that situation..You let him know too much ..showed your hand and this makes me sad..I fear I could come on here 3 years from now and see yet more letters from him and you..back and forth still married....still cheating...... I often wonder how fast you would really FILE if he stopped paying on the house ? I think that will be when you decide you have had enough... and that is really sad ....You need a NEW therapist IF you are seeing one and need to see one if you aren't...You do NOT have your Ph.D ...and you cannot treat yourself
Author Athena Posted July 14, 2009 Author Posted July 14, 2009 ForumFool, thank you for that honest posting of yours! Thank you to all of you who posted with help and advice. I AM going to do this. I am devising a plan, moving ahead with a D, am going to figure this out, and going to put things in place. I read and re-read the responses, and I recognize the truth-telling. I will keep you guys updated. You have all given me strength to move ahead, and for this I thank you.
Toodamnpragmatic Posted July 14, 2009 Posted July 14, 2009 ForumFool, thank you for that honest posting of yours! Thank you to all of you who posted with help and advice. I AM going to do this. I am devising a plan, moving ahead with a D, am going to figure this out, and going to put things in place. I read and re-read the responses, and I recognize the truth-telling. I will keep you guys updated. You have all given me strength to move ahead, and for this I thank you. Be smart, be careful and do what is best for you, the kids and the family. We are all good at giving advise, but not so good in our own lives many times.
Author Athena Posted July 14, 2009 Author Posted July 14, 2009 Reggie, Athena mentioned you suggested some books...would you mind letting me know which ones? I do believe I have a narcissist on my hands. I wasn't sure at first, because he also says he hates himself...and I thought they loved themselves. I don't get that, but otherwise it's SPOT on. gaslighting, blameshifting, manipulation, you name it. it's there. Nothingissacred, the books Reggie mentioned are by author Richard Skerritt and the two books I ordered directly from the author's website (much, much cheaper than the prices on Amazon!!!!) just arrived this minute! I can't wait to read them....(he's got many more on his website!). The two books I bought by R. Skerritt: "Meaning from Madness -- Understanding the Hidden Patterns that Motivate Abusers: Narcissists, Borderlines, and Sociopaths" "Surviving the Storm -- Strategies & Realities when Divorcing a Narcissist"
Author Athena Posted July 14, 2009 Author Posted July 14, 2009 Be smart, be careful and do what is best for you, the kids and the family. We are all good at giving advise, but not so good in our own lives many times. Thanks TDP for yous well wishes! Yes, I know we can see other people's cases more clearly than our own... and that's why it's good to have people you can ask for advice... both to give and to ask for advice... that's what friends do. Yes, even over the Internet.
Toodamnpragmatic Posted July 14, 2009 Posted July 14, 2009 Thanks TDP for yous well wishes! Yes, I know we can see other people's cases more clearly than our own... and that's why it's good to have people you can ask for advice... both to give and to ask for advice... that's what friends do. Yes, even over the Internet. Athena it is so easy to say run, not so easy to do. Your H is a narcissistic, manipulative, passionate, charming and I would say loving man. He just enjoys his life the way it is. Could he change immediately if you serve him? May be. I just think also that he needs a kick to make that decision. You though need to protect yourself first and foremost. Whether that means a divorce, not 100% sure. Certainly it means a plan. I will however say that nothing is easy or simple and if you have reached the end of your rope, divorce, if not be the wife when he is the husband and father and decide what you want to live with. Frankly I can see him choosing you or making more concessions at this point in his life..... Know it sounds convoluted.
AirlinePilot Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 Here is what I don't get. Everyone here is ready to crucify this guy. It sounds to me like he is admitting guilt and that he has a problem. At least he has the guts to admit it. You are telling her to take out life insurance on him? That is a crazy thing to say!! My ex wife cheated on me for 8 years. I gave her chance after chance to stop. It never stopped. I was the one who was made to feel guilty. She said I was gone too often. Im a pilot. She knew the score when we got married. Im home more than most! I fly an average of 13 days per month. Im home more than I am at work! She had no problem with spending money like it was water. She admitted in court she had MANY affairs with men and women. And I STILL lost more than half of what was mine. And my ex wife is a medical doctor! My income was just over 100k a year. Her income is $280k a year. I put up with all the cheating and empty promises, begged and begged her to stop, I was even willing to leave my job, a job that I love, and go into something else. Then her lawyer makes it sound like I neglected her. I treated her like a queen! SHE was away from home more than I was! I paid 90% of her medical school loans off. And she still took more than half of everything! Does it hurt? Yes! Am I angry? No, but I used to be. Did I EVER think of ways to get even? NO WAY! All we see here is one side of the story and what appears to be cut and pastes from emails. If you love him, then try and work it out. Do WHATEVER it takes to work it out. Regardless of how old your kids are, it WILL take a toll on them. I was 24 when my parents divorced, and it was hard watching it happen. Im not saying lay down like a rug and let him walk all over you. But why all the insults hurled at him? Does that really do any good? Anger is one thing, but you can be angry without being insulting and childish. Someone referred to your husband as childish, but it seems the door swings both ways.
Author Athena Posted July 15, 2009 Author Posted July 15, 2009 Hi AirlinePilot. Seems like you too struggled with standing by a wife that cheated over and over again. Yes, the door swings both ways, but here is my H having the same 'problem' he's had from age 20 --49, through 2 marriages and 13 Affairs. How many more 'chances' does he need? When I was the best wife I could be, that was not enough to make him want to stop his cheating. When we got married, he and I were together constantly for most of the day, and for the first seven years of our marriage we were very close, and spent lunchtimes, evenings, and weekends together. Then, when we emigrated abroad, our situation changed rapidly, since he couldn't find a job locally, and he took a three month contract job in England. It was at that time that he realized he liked the Singles lifestyle he experienced there -- no caring for small children at home, going out to pubs every night, charming people with his wonderful personality... then he came home... he liked having his loving warm wife at home, his adoring children. He liked being treated like a Prince at home. Another contract came up in Holland, and he went, promising to send for us all very soon... but ... oh dear... he LIKED doing his own thing there, he liked going to the bars, socializing with the people from work, after hours. He liked going to movies and doing whatever he liked without reporting to a wife, or being home to tuck children up into bed. He would come home every other weekend at that time... sex was great with us... off he would fly again, and keep in touch with me via phone calls. Each time I asked to join him, he would come up with an excuse as to 'not yet', but soon, really soon... this went on for two-and-a-half years. He then had an affair, which didn't last long, but I caught him out in it. I could go on and on AirlinePilot, suffice to say that When we first got married, I DID NOT SIGN UP FOR LIVING A LIFE APART! I did not marry a sailor or an airline pilot, or a military man! My H discovered life was foot loose and fancy free out there on his own. While I thought I was 'standing by him' he was out having a great time -- eating out every night and socializing much better. I NEVER went out anywhere because my H was extremely jealous and kicked up a huge fuss the ONE time I 'chaperoned' my single sister on a date... therefore, I never went anywhere to have 'fun' and devoted myself to raising our children, and being available to my H. I also traveled to visit him whenever he sent me an airticket. My situation is different to yours. I have asked my H many times what I did to make him have affairs? And he always says it's not me, it's him. He says I have been a wonderful wife, the best he could have wished for -- and I KNOW I was... for decades... but, I have had enough of his lies, cheating, and the pain and depression I have felt. I have hit back hard... ever since his seventh affair was found out -- January of '08, I have NOT been so nice to him!!!! I have been angry. I have told him I would divorce him. So yes, I have been nasty in my email to him, in the hope of making him catch a severely needed Wake Up Call!!!!! Since nothing else has worked in making him stop his cheating. Now our kids have grown up -- 18 and 22. I would have been with him right now in Asia, living with him, but he couldn't wait that long... had to have affair #7 and #8... and I can only conclude that he subconsciously does not want me as his wife, or why else would he gamble the risk of losing me? (I had warned him if he had any more affairs after # 6, that I WOULD divorce him). See, perhaps you don't have any idea of what a Narcissist is truly like? You think I am misrepresenting the truth but he had it all -- he had a good wife, he had a wonderful family, but he wanted to get more attention and admiration from having affairs. Now how does that make it my fault?
Author Athena Posted July 15, 2009 Author Posted July 15, 2009 Here is what I don't get. Everyone here is ready to crucify this guy. It sounds to me like he is admitting guilt and that he has a problem. At least he has the guts to admit it. <Sigh> He has been admitting guilt and fault for over twenty years. Surely if he keeps on repeating the SAME mistake over and over again, it isn't really a 'mistake'??!! It's a choice, and he obviously is willing to put up with the consequences... "At least he has the guts to admit it", well, what else could he say?! How could he blame ME for it? How can he NOT admit it? I have photographic evidence of his affair partners... What do you want to know AirlinePilot? Do you think I didn't give him enough chances? Do you think that just because I love the bastard that I should continue to let him do what the hell he feels like doing? Do you realize that he LIES each and every time, about the affairs? That often, he would lie and gaslight me for half a year before he FINALLY admitted it? Is that what you call "having the guts to admit it"? If only you knew what he's put me through. You don't, do you? But HE does... He knows. And he knows he's wrong, but really, obviously, it is not enough to make him want to stop his behaviors. So what should I do? NOTHING I have done and tried and said and begged and promised and pleaded has worked... So tell me, AirlineP, What Should I Do?! Since I shouldn't 'crucify' the guy?
Author Athena Posted July 15, 2009 Author Posted July 15, 2009 All we see here is one side of the story and what appears to be cut and pastes from emails. Would you like to see him (my H) come on this site and post 'his side'? If you love him, then try and work it out. Do WHATEVER it takes to work it out. Regardless of how old your kids are, it WILL take a toll on them. I was 24 when my parents divorced, and it was hard watching it happen. I DID love him, I DID try work it out. But I don't want to love him, and I don't see anything from him to stop his cheating. He JUST had another affair in March of this year, and for all I know, he could still be at it now... Someone referred to your husband as childish, but it seems the door swings both ways. What you see from me is not so much childishness, as Anger.
Author Athena Posted July 15, 2009 Author Posted July 15, 2009 All we see here is one side of the story and what appears to be cut and pastes from emails. Hi Athena I have now finished my third day on this project and wanted to write to you to tell you a bit about my work but more especially to find out how you're doing. It is not very nice to hear that you've again suffered from vertigo attacks brought on by stress and I hope you have the right medication to counteract this as far as steadying your balance goes. For my part, given time, I will soon be sending home enough money for us to become financially stable again and I know this one thing on its own will represent a big consideration in ameliorating both our personal circumstances. I have to admit that I really did not want to go back to work again. Of course the reality is that I simply had to go back to work but notwithstanding our difficult situation, I just wanted to be near you. I know you sequestered yourself away in another bedroom at night and I had to be content to just be sleeping under the same roof as you, but seeing you each day made me feel so warm towards you, made my heart leap at your beauty and I constantly wished I could wipe away all the horror and pain I have caused you. I wanted to literally show you by my behaviour that I love you as I knew all too well that being away from you would physically take me away from all contact with you. This has now come to pass and I am powerless to help or hinder any progress you wish to make both physically and mentally. I admire you for putting your beliefs so strongly forward and not wavering in your intent and certainty. This is the Athena I know. This is the Athena I always admired and this is the Athena I love. You were justifiably angry with me in betraying your last vested hope of trusting me and there is no comment I can make about the intensity of it being right or wrong. You sacrificed so much of yourself in giving me that chance and the many others in the past and I want you to know I acknowledge this Athena. For reasons which I shall inevitably discover as to why I have been on this destructive course, I know that you never judged me and always loved me in spite of the pain I have caused you. This was more than I have the capacity for or could have managed to do and I respect you for your fidelity to me. You have worked hard to keep our family together and have succeeded in every way that it was within your power to do so. You deserve infinitely better than you have received from me and I deeply regret having been the cause of your suffering for so long. These were the thoughts on my mind when I started this note to you. I hope to hear you are feeling stronger soon Athena. Your *H*
Author Athena Posted July 15, 2009 Author Posted July 15, 2009 I am feeling out of my depth when I think about us too Athena. We didn't come to any agreement before I left in that I for one didn't have any assurance whether voiced or intimated, that we are going to get through our difficult situation together. You were very sweet to me at the airport even if it was for *son’s* sake, but for a brief moment I felt engulfed being in love with you again and it was a very special feeling for me. I keep thinking "I just want my Athena back" but that I suppose, is far too simplistic to wish for except that it is on my mind all the time. I have tried to contemplate what my life would be like without you since there is the realistic possibility of that actually happening but it makes me instinctively cold inside and I just cannot linger on that thought for the depression it instantly brings upon me. I cannot even begin to imagine what a life without you would be like and I know it would not be worth living. To live out the rest of my days without direction or desire having lost the most important person in my life and just living for nothing else but my earning capacity, makes a mockery of any meaning to life itself. I am in no doubt about the terrible harm I have caused you Athena. I am in a perpetual feeling of guilt knowing it was by my own volition that I did these things to you and to our precious understanding and love. If it were as simple as admitting I was a selfish bastard and accepting that, then I would at least have an answer, but I'm afraid it is not that simple. At the same time I know I do not have a 'black heart' and you know this too, so it seems to me that there must be some other reasons in-between these two extremes that I have yet to clearly identify and it is consuming almost all the little mental energy I have left in searching my heart and soul for an answer. I sincerely want to find what it is within me that allowed me permission to ignore everything you had endured in giving me one more chance. So many other things require my full attention right now including a return to my studies, finding accommodation, taxes and college fees, not to mention grappling with this new and difficult job, but I rather want to jealously spend all my time in pursuing my own thought pattern in resolving the marital issues we have and this I cannot do as it is unrealistic in terms of all my responsibilities. I am exhausted at the end of each day and I just want to book a ticket and come home tomorrow even though you will be waiting to shout at me in your anger at my betrayal and lack of income. That proposition may sound ridiculous to you except that for me there is also the chance that when you aren't feeling hostile toward me, I can hold you for a moment in my arms. That's what I want more than anything. I thought of writing up a 'pact' with you stating clearly the terms and conditions of a renewed understanding of love and faithfulness so that you and I could sign the agreement and become one again, but I realise we already have one of these and it is I who have broken the universal terms and conditions that we signed 22 years ago so what good would another one be? This makes me very sad Athena and I want to say how sorry I am for being such an unfaithful husband to you. Each thought I have of how you have stood by me over the years and took the pain I handed back in return just because you were sustained by your love for me, makes me crumble inside. I try to find the strength to carry on with my desire to make things right between us and think and talk things through to a successful conclusion but I find I have an ever decreasing capacity to do this as I have so many memories of how I failed you that I just don't know where to start. Whether you are laughing at me, are even angrier with me or just outright reject what I have written as totally implausible or not, I needed to tell you all the same as I know you understand what I am saying. You know me better than anyone else and telling you means more to me than telling anyone else. You are the only one who ever did understand me better than anyone. I do not want you to solve my problems Athena, but I want you to know what is on my mind. Please let me know how you are feeling and whether your vertigo has abated. I want to know about *Daughter* too and miss not being there to bring her welcome cups of tea from her Papa. Your *H*
Author Athena Posted July 15, 2009 Author Posted July 15, 2009 Hello Athena From the response time it has taken you to reply to my previous emails, probably because of the relocation of the computers to the study, I understand that you do not spend much time at the PC these days, but I am glad to see your replies when you are able. I know you are not feeling well and that doesn't help either when it comes to reading from a screen. Please understand that I am not writing to you because I want to somehow beguile you in some way with cleverly worded sentences as part of some ulterior stratagem. I simply want to be in contact with you and for you to know what I am doing and what I am thinking. I don't have anybody else Athena and I trust you with my thoughts entirely. Besides this, do you think that however consistent or well-written my words are that they will ever wash away what I've done? "*H’s ex-W* and *H’s OW#7 – both found replacements for you" "within two months". A very interesting observation Athena! Although it isn't nice for me to hear this, it is nevertheless true. "Sucks to be me" right? if that was the initial intent of your comment. The other aspect of your comment is that it would appear that these women whom I thought had some form of special regard for me simply wasted no time in replacing me. From that aspect alone I do not feel worth very much, but then again I have to consider to whom my worth is being considered by. The answer to your question; "Was it worth it?" is; No, it was not worth it. It was never worth it. And, when you ask me further whether it was worth it to lose you and yours by wasting my time with these women, then the answer is again; No. Nothing could have a replacement value that high. And yet I willfully ignored the value of our relationship and I cannot conceive of a plausible reason why I would do such a thing. Put yourself in my shoes for a moment and consider the same question. It just doesn't make sense does it? Maybe I thought you were so strong that you could handle anything and everything? Maybe I don't have a clear understanding of what fidelity means, or maybe I do but don't have the strength of character to live by it? Maybe I was trying to compensate for something I felt I had been denied in my past and was therefore going to ignore any kind of further impediment in having what I thought I had missed? But whatever the case, the fact is that I have in the process caused possibly irreparable damage to our marriage whilst blighting my own character into the 'bargain'. I constantly ask myself these sort of questions Athena and spiral ever downwards when I find I have no defense in mitigation whether partially or wholly in terms of what I have done. At the time I was doing these things, I was always uneasy in the awareness that a 'day of reckoning' would come, but as I could not conceive of what it would be like, I somehow managed to ignore it. The more I continued, the more difficult it became to extricate myself and reconcile the growing sense of foreboding. But 'that day' has now arrived. I know what you mean when you say "You teach by example", but would you want to learn to do what I have done within the marriage bonds? You have a perfect record of fidelity Athena and I would be heartbroken if you quoted me as your mentor by committing adultery yourself. That would not justify your actions and you would then have to live with the guilt of having capitulated to the same sordid level that I have been. Please don't even think about this possibility. I am sorry if I have the wrong impression here, but when you said "I now reserve the right NOT to have fidelity"" to me, I presumed you might be thinking along these lines and have commented accordingly. Please, please don't go that way Athena. It is not you and never will be. You will only irretrievably destroy something within your soul and of that I can assure you. Why willingly choose to be a lesser person than you are now? Why put doubt in your own mind as to your own pride and self-worth? Why throw away everything you have ever stood for just to say you've done it or to demonstrate your own independent right to me? You know, when I read over the things I have written to you here, I feel mesmerized in feelings of hopeless guilt. What have I done Athena? Why am I writing to you on subjects like these? I recognise there is an extremely thin line between struggling to make sense of this all in a rational way and just letting go. Everything I have done points to the fact that I was never willing to submit to giving you the marriage you deserved but here I am trying to encourage you with my intentions and trying to give you hope and strength to see things through when I have ensured that I have almost nothing left of any value to give to myself. Why did I become this way? Why did I consistently fail to heed your warnings Athena? Why in fact did I choose to do things that needed warnings in the first place? Wanting to "let go" comes from my inner voice telling me that I am deluding myself by trying to present a conclusive argument to you simply because I have completely divested myself of all plausibility with my past actions. And yet I do not want to give up and am struggling to maintain focus on what I have to do to ensure that I do not give up so that I do not thereby commit a final and fatal mistake in my life. I do not want to lose you Athena and that's the bottom line. Whatever else I do I do not want to lose you. This is what I wish to do "in this department" as you put it. I am feeling the desperateness that you must have felt all these years where you wanted me to come home to you and not continue to behave in a way that was going to extinguish our marriage. I am felling desperate at the spectre of not having you as my wife. Am I acting in some childish way having effectively pushed you aside so many times but now that you are prepared to go, don't want you to? It cannot be that Athena. If I never really wanted you, our marriage would probably never have lasted this long. I want our marriage to last for our whole lives. My own stubbornness is to blame for a lot of the problems I have brought upon us. Amusingly I even stubbornly refused to believe that! I am not absolutely certain why I was so deeply affected by the feeling that I was somehow unprotected by my parents when I was younger, but I do know that whatever the reasons were, they have indeed affected me to the extent that I was never going to be 'told' what to do by anyone, ever! The problem with that attitude whether subconscious or overtly so, is that taking ones place in normal society by default cannot be achieved. By 'normal society' I also include the rules and expectations that are taken for granted by most people of moral fibre. Almost by default then I made myself a pariah in my own mind and acting outside the norms was therefore almost a requirement for me in order not to identify with 'the other side'. These actions even endorsed my feeling of not belonging anywhere just as they now do to you. All those years ago I fell in love with you and married you but marriage was yet another of societies norms and I was therefore going to be in direct conflict with that institution too from the start. Now that I am older I have the capacity to see greater perspective and I understand that being part of moral society is not an odious burden but rather a protective mantle against becoming some lonely social outcast incapable of meaningful input and devoid of self-worth. It is far easier to 'do the right thing' in an environment that encourages it and I should never have suspected that particular part of what was expected of me in our marriage. I challenged and inevitably rejected all rote following of well-worn paths of behaviour in terms of other people's expectations and I suppose from a healthy perspective that isn't a particularly bad thing as it gives one the option to accept only what is beneficial to oneself. I always admired the way you did that Athena and often told you especially when it came to doctors and other people typically in government who tend to usurp their station by acting in a despotic manner. The way I acted however was to reject any and all manifestations of so-called 'societies expectations' of me. I am certain this was directly linked to my rejection of the similar so-called expectations of me by my parents when I was in my late teens. I broke all the rules then, and I have not stopped since. Creeping up on me in the interim years however, has been a concurrent outlook. I see a beautiful wife who has proudly brought up two healthy children. I see two beautiful children who love their mother and are imbued with her values and morals. I now see a home that has finally become a reality. Looking at just these few things without the prejudice of confused or incorrect thinking that has roots in the unchangeable past of my actions, I see them as having immense value. They are mine by right. If I was to continue in the way I have behaved all these years, then this glimpse of wonder and beauty would also be rejected as another one of the things that society strives for but which I must automatically reject by way of response. I just don't want to do that anymore. Can you understand why I feel I do not want to give up? Furthermore I have to admit that it was because of a perceived preference that I thought you had for *Son* over me that I rejected him too. I did not want to provide fatherly care where I felt it was going to be superseded or overshadowed by your care. That was wrong of me since a child benefits from the care of both parents. You even told me that, but I did not believe it within the belief system I maintained. In recent times, *Son* himself has reached out to me and this has made a huge difference to my feelings for him. While I never hated him, I could never allow myself to be close to him as I considered that you were already providing everything he needed and I was merely an excess to requirement. *Daughter* by contrast never presented a perceived 'threat' to me as a father and in return I easily allowed myself to be a loving Papa toward her. I have often said that I have nothing in common with *Athena’s brother* and I am sure that within the context of what I have written you can clearly see why. He stood for everything that I had already rejected in my life. He was an authority figure in society being illustrious in his fame as a world renowned surgeon, he had earning power, and he undoubtedly was 'the man of the house'. I laughed to myself when I went up Mt. Parnossos last weekend and considered that if I had been there with your sister she might probably have crowed that *Athena’s brother* had already have been the first to have climbed to the top bare-handed in nothing more than a tee-shirt and jeans or some other such ridiculous assertion. I simply have never identified with your brother because I had previously rejected all forms of what society enshrines as being worthy of aspiring to and which he represents. I know you will be angry with me for some time to come. This is a natural reaction to having been betrayed by me yet again and I will bear your wrath for as long as it lasts Athena. It is justified as I have committed you a terrible wrong. All I can say is that I am sorry my flawed perception has taken so long for me to investigate and understand such that it came after the 'last chance' you provided me with. However, I do not want any more chances as that very word engenders a certain hit or miss aspect. I want to form a new understanding with you based on the love that you and I cannot deny we have always had for each other. That would be a solid foundation in building a solid relationship with common precepts that would keep us together for the rest of our lives. It the middle of your last email with reference to *Son’s* recent and fleeting visit in which he spent all his time at his girlfriend, you wrote; "I don't want to be treated like I am insignificant, by anybody, ever again". Indeed it is not a good feeling to feel that you are not recognised for your own worth or for the willingness to be there for another member of the family when all you receive in return is perceived rejection. It may sound stupid or even obvious to say, but I will state it anyway; you are the most significant person I have ever met Athena and this is why I am writing to you in the way I have here. It is more important to me than anything else to have your understanding. Love *H*
Author Athena Posted July 15, 2009 Author Posted July 15, 2009 Athena I see it differently, but first let me say that I understand by what you've said that you are clearly angry over the options that I may be open to in terms of work in the future. I know you would not do the things you have indicated but I understand why you have said them. You want to get even by making those people somehow pay for the pain you have experienced and what better way than to do to them as they have done to you? However, if you were to come go with me to *Asian country* I know you would be received in an entirely different way to what you imagine. My friends there would most definitely know that you were not to blame in any way and would not be judgmental either. I know you may find this hard to imagine Athena, but I know these people and I think you would be surprised at their reaction to actually meeting you, my wife. Yes, they would know that I had an affair with *OW #7*, but I think they would understand that you and I were resolving the situation by our unity and that always makes people feel comfortable when they know they are not being held accountable for something that they had no part in. I believe you would be more than welcomed in their homes and if discussion about *OW#7* ever came up they would be respectful in their consideration of the work that I have to put in to build our marriage back and of your being prepared to let me. If you ever met *OW37* I think that you would probably receive the same respect from her. However she and my friend *OW’s b/f* are leaving *town* and going to *other country* on *Ow’s b/f’s* next assignment in June, so you would probably not meet them if I was in *city* again. There is a lot of truth in the aphorism “United we stand, divided we fall”, and I want to be united with you Athena. We have always made a good team together and I have always found strength in our unity. It takes a lot of resolve to be determined to see this through together and I want to make things right between us. I want you to be safe from all the things I have done in the past and I am resolved in ensuring it will never happen again. If we keep fighting each other we will not be able to move ahead and will by default keep ourselves going round in circles continually opening old wounds and never letting there be a chance for recovery of any kind. I do not want to live that way Athena and I know you don’t either. We both need to be logical and serious about the options before us and not spoil our chances by engaging in bitter exchanges of invective. Every time I see you write in the way you do I feel heart-sore that I am to blame for all the suffering I have caused. I so much want to leave all this cause and effect behind me and look forward to being with you the way we were Athena. Every time you use sharp words with me or threaten some reprise I am drawn back down to the mess I’ve created and it makes me feel that any progress I’ve made has been destroyed. I don’t know how to keep on getting up again and continue trying, but I do Athena and it’s because of you. Please try to make this something we can do together. I will always acknowledge your hurt and the damage I’ve done and will do whatever I can to prevent it ever occurring again, but I need you to consider how you can leave the past behind us and move forward with the valuable lessons we have learned. Can you think about that Hon? We really need to make our future together something to look forward to for our own sakes. *H*
Author Athena Posted July 15, 2009 Author Posted July 15, 2009 Airline Pilot, you still here with me? You still reading all these damn charming emails from my loving H?! See, this is not so One Sided as you thought, right? You can see him ADMIT to everything (yes, honorably) because there is nothing else to do but admit that I was a good wife to him, and he was in the wrong... does it help you SEE clearly now, that you have WHOLE emails from my H to read with your own eyes, and to see it's not cleverly misdirected by ME slyly 'cutting and pasting' away....???!!!! I am so sick of my life. Sick of myself. Sick. Sick. Sick Now, what else do you want to know A.Pilot???? Nope, I was not being one-sided Yes, he was apparently admitting all his faults etc, but GUESS WHAT??? AFTER all the above emails (and dozens more just as lovely as them -- wanna see 'em too??!!) HE STILL WENT OUT AND HAD ANOTHER DAMN AFFAIR THIS YEAR, THE PIG. Now, so, what do you say? I am ALL EARS.
Author Athena Posted July 15, 2009 Author Posted July 15, 2009 Hi Athena I just received your email in response to the email I sent you an hour ago. Thank you for acknowledging me. You and I are both tired for different reasons and even some common reasons too. However I want you to know that I never want to be 'here' again. The only way to ensure this is to make the necessary changes I have to make with conviction or else they will only be 'window dressing'. You also need to make some changes but I will leave these to you since you know where you are most affected, but I will do my best to help you wherever I can and wherever you will let me. If this means further discussions on contentious issues, then I will do it as it is both a relief for me to unburden my conscience and for you to receive truthful information. For years I didn't want to see your pain Athena and this was why I looked away. It was like that with me. It was not because I was cold or unfeeling, but that I was not prepared to address my own problems and would have been a hypocrite if I had addressed yours with words of compassion. That probably sounds contorted or evasive but it was how I quantified it and somehow got along with it. All the while I saw in your eyes the pain you were going through Athena and although I wanted to pick you up and protect you from it, I knew it was me that was doing this to you. How could I realistically protect you against myself with any kind of reassuring words? I am so sorry for the pain I have caused you Athena. Please don't feel tired of "us". Our wonderful marriage is something worth fighting for and don't ever forget that! I have had to write to you on my gmail account as the Outlook on my PC here at work for some reason has gone on the blink and just freezes when I now try and return a message to you. I am going to re-boot the machine and see if it works again. This computer system at *H’s company* is absolutely outrageous with all the trouble it has given each and every one of us here in the office! Endless updates interferring with the normal operation of programmes and endless software issues. It is quite unbelievable that a company such as this puts up with such crap. Take courage Athena. We will get through this together. *H*
angie2443 Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 Athena, I read those emails from your husband. Gosh! It just feels exhausting. You must be exhausted from all this. I hope things get better for you.
Author Athena Posted July 15, 2009 Author Posted July 15, 2009 I have just re-read the above emails of old from H now, and I am crying. I am so sad. Sad. and heartbroken.
carhill Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 Put them away. It sucks when love dies. I ran across a couple of Valentines cards from when my wife and I were in MC and were trying. Stopped me right in the middle of my tile job last week for a good sob. All this means is that you're a loving and healthy person in a bad situation. It'll get better. {{{{{{Athena}}}}}}
Author Athena Posted July 15, 2009 Author Posted July 15, 2009 Put them away. It sucks when love dies. I ran across a couple of Valentines cards from when my wife and I were in MC and were trying. Stopped me right in the middle of my tile job last week for a good sob. All this means is that you're a loving and healthy person in a bad situation. It'll get better. {{{{{{Athena}}}}}} thanks for the hug. I am so sad and can't stop crying. How long must I cry over this man for? I don't even want my life. I can't live with him and yet I can't get away from him. It's the Anger that kept me alive, you know. I just want to crawl back in my bed and not come out. I did this in March (I even see my posts here on LS stopped), I stopped taking people's calls, emails, didn't go to my gym classes... I didn't leave the house much at all... I hid away in my bed for two months. what am I supposed to do? Airlinepilot can look through my thread and say, "Ha so one-sided, and how childish" Does he have any idea
carhill Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 Push back from LS and find a trusted positive friend IRL to share with. You need positive reinforcement right now but are vulnerable to negative thoughts. That's my opinion.
bentnotbroken Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 thanks for the hug. I am so sad and can't stop crying. How long must I cry over this man for? I don't even want my life. I can't live with him and yet I can't get away from him. It's the Anger that kept me alive, you know. I just want to crawl back in my bed and not come out. I did this in March (I even see my posts here on LS stopped), I stopped taking people's calls, emails, didn't go to my gym classes... I didn't leave the house much at all... I hid away in my bed for two months. what am I supposed to do? Airlinepilot can look through my thread and say, "Ha so one-sided, and how childish" Does he have any idea You are a strong lady. Give yourself credit for making the realization and looking for an exit. I(we) won't let you hide anymore. Keep crying, get the poison out of your system. You know where to find me.
AirlinePilot Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 I am so sick of my life. Sick of myself. Sick. Sick. Sick Why? OK, I admit.. the guy has issues. But why waste time on anger? Why are you beating yourself up for HIS mistakes? It seems that you, like myself, tried to make it work. And you did it for MANY more years than I. If I may ask, how long have you been separated? Have you filed for a divorce? Quite honestly, the divorce does not make it better. You are "legally" free from the guy, but the emotional attachment is still there. Ill give you my two cents. NO MATTER WHAT, dont even THINK about getting together with him after the divorce. After my divorce, we started sleeping together for several months. It only makes it that much harder. And then when you get cheated on again, you feel like an idiot for thinking it would all be different. No, I give you this... you champed it out for WAY too long. I believe there are some couples who can put an affair behind them. But I will ever know what that feels like. My fiance and I have been together for two years and I proposed two weeks ago. I told her that there would be no second chance if she ever cheated. I would not even consider it. I would be gone like the wind. She understood... her ex husband cheated on her as well. I have been divorced for a few months longer than her. Your life is worth more than this. Don't say life sucks... it can ALWAYS be worse. MUCH worse. No one is worth abusing yourself mentally over their actions. Turn the hate and anger into a positive driving force to move on with your life. Once you find it within yourself to do that, things will get better for you VERY quickly.You will feel so much better about yourself and your life. But first, you have to decide to end this or make it work. If ending it is what you are going to do, then do it now. Change your email address, phone number, and have no contact with him. If he starts coming around, slap a restraining order on him.
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