I wrote a Letter to My Love (a very nasty letter; and H replied)

[Athena]

What I'd read up to this point indicated to me that you had investigated the OPTION of divorce...but I hadn't read anything indicating that you were still continuing the divorce process.

 

Sigh. Owl, you are correct -- I have not 'continued' the divorce process. I was looking into setting it up, and I was letting H know all along when I was going to see the lawyer, and to see if that would give him the proverbial Wake Up Call, because it seems that nothing really has, despite all his crying and saying he doesn't want to continue what he's been pursuing with OW.

 

I don't even want to risk my sanity any further by going out to live with him. I am still angry deep inside about his continued affairs over a dozen years or more, and have done everything from forgiveness, crying, showing pain, bargaining, hurting him back, to now trying to walk away.

 

From your post Owl, I don't know if you mean you don't believe that I am serious about a divorce? I have paid $300 for each of two visits to a lawyer -- even the first visit was not free -- and I have given the lawyer copies of the paperwork required. All he needs now is the say so and a $7,000.00 retainer to move on and have H served.

I was kind of hoping there was a way that I could have H served while he was here in June, without having to fork over $7g... to see if THAT reality would be enough to jolt him into reality.

But perhaps it's me that needs the jolt. Ha bloody ha.

[Athena]

Owl -- I had agreed with H to put a halt on the D proceedings until December. It makes sense anyway, since that is the next time he will be home and could be served with D papers anyway.

 

It also would make sense to focus on myself in the meantime.

[boldjack]

Athena, i think that you are weakening in your resolve, because of your H's pleadings, and your own fear of the future.

[Owl]

I wasn't saying I didn't believe you...I was simply saying that I was under the impression that you'd explored the option, but you hadn't gone further than that at this time. That you weren't "divorcing" right now, but considering it as one of your options.

 

I'll be honest with you...given how your H comes across, working "with him" to divorce seems completely contradictory...or at least self-defeating on your part.

 

He's clearly indicated he's not going to work "with you"...he's going to do what's best for him.

 

You'd be a fool to do anything less. "Uncontested divorce" is a misnomer...pretty much SOMEBODY gets hosed in a divorce...it's up to you to decide if you want to be the one who loses everything or not.

 

To me...working on the divorce IS "focusing on yourself"...I have no idea what you'd be focusing on if it's NOT doing something about this entire situation.

 

I think you and I are likely very different kinds of personalities, when you get down to it. I'm very 'action oriented'. If I have a goal...I develop a plan, implement the plan, and work it to resolution. If I don't like the current situation I'm in...I work hard to change the situation. I am not happy 'settling' for an interim solution when I know that I can be working towards a solution.

 

My advice stands...if you are going to divorce...then do so now, and to the very best of your abilities. Don't wait, don't play along with your H...do it.

 

But that's me...and I admit, I've never been divorced, so I can't speak to the process at all either.

[Reggie]

Athena, even if you take his cheating out of the equation, the guy is NPD. That means a lifetime of hell, as you have already expierienced.

It is very tough to get the emotional enegy to divorce these folks as they have often worn their victims down with years of abuse.

You need some support. Do you have family that can help you?

[carhill]

OP, just so you know, you can legally serve your H anywhere in the world. If a professional process server can find him, you can serve him and it will hold up in court. Don't let his work abroad deter you.

 

Fear is the operative here. I'm going through a D. I know what fear is. What do you fear? Focus on resolving that. Fear is your enemy. H is irrelevant. That's my .02.

[Athena]

 

Fear is the operative here. I'm going through a D. I know what fear is. What do you fear? Focus on resolving that. Fear is your enemy. H is irrelevant. That's my .02.

 

Fear of making a mistake. Fear of not being loved again. Fear of being alone and miserable. Fear of failure.

[carhill]

That's your task. Trust me, resolve your fears and everything else will just fall into place. Take one positive step each day, no matter how small. I also fear making a mistake, both in the legal process and about whether life with my wife was so 'bad' after all. Those are legitimate fears. Challenge them. You are ready.

[Athena]

Athena, even if you take his cheating out of the equation, the guy is NPD. That means a lifetime of hell, as you have already expierienced.

It is very tough to get the emotional enegy to divorce these folks as they have often worn their victims down with years of abuse.

You need some support. Do you have family that can help you?

 

I have a brother here, he cannot help in an emotionally supportive way, since he is a bigwig professional who is very successful and makes instant decisions and looks at me a tad scornfully for putting up with my H's infidelity for so long.

 

He can help with a place to stay temporarily (his W will not be thrilled, not because of me, who I am, but because she has difficulty having houseguests for too long -- like more than a couple of days). My brother has helped H and me financially when H was out of work in this country for six months, and we still need to pay him back (although my brother has essentially in his mind written this sum off, he has stated he won't put in any more money). It is tough to move from country to country with a family, forever setting up a home from scratch. I don't wish to bring more burden on my brother's head, but of course he would help if I needed him to.

 

Reggie, is that what you mean by 'support' from family? My mom is overseas for six months of the year at a time, and she in the past has consistently told me NOT to divorce H.

Probably because she doesn't see nor understand the narcissism, and also because she was widowed at age 39 and left to raise four children on her own. She got a second job and worked many overtime hours and struggled for years on end to do right by us. That probably influences her advice to me to stand by H.

 

It's true, Reggie, I have been somewhat worn down over the years... I used to be super confident and capable...

[Athena]

That's your task. Trust me, resolve your fears and everything else will just fall into place. Take one positive step each day, no matter how small. I also fear making a mistake, both in the legal process and about whether life with my wife was so 'bad' after all. Those are legitimate fears. Challenge them. You are ready.

 

Do you have any ideas or guidelines as to how to challenge the fears I have? Any advice would be much appreciated.

[tami-chan]

((((((((((Athena))))))))))

 

You will get "there"...how's the substitute teaching thing going?

[Athena]

You'd be a fool to do anything less. "Uncontested divorce" is a misnomer...pretty much SOMEBODY gets hosed in a divorce...it's up to you to decide if you want to be the one who loses everything or not.

I see! yikes, so it's "Either him, or me" -- there's no 'playing nice' here...

I was going to keep the house in both of our names -- both as to encourage H to do the legal requirement of alimony for x # of years, (or else after, say, 2 mths of non-payment, the title reverts fully to my name...), AND as a fair retirement plan for him too, to invest in property, build up equity, for his future...

 

To me...working on the divorce IS "focusing on yourself"...I have no idea what you'd be focusing on if it's NOT doing something about this entire situation.

I suppose it is, I just never saw it that way before...

 

 

I think you and I are likely very different kinds of personalities, when you get down to it. I'm very 'action oriented'. If I have a goal...I develop a plan, implement the plan, and work it to resolution. If I don't like the current situation I'm in...I work hard to change the situation. I am not happy 'settling' for an interim solution when I know that I can be working towards a solution.

I guess we are. But it looks like your way of planning ahead is the sensible way. It looks like a skill I desperately need to learn.

 

My advice stands...if you are going to divorce...then do so now, and to the very best of your abilities. Don't wait, don't play along with your H...do it.

To any posters here -- does going ahead with a divorce help you mentally get 'unstuck' if you are somewhat paralyzed by a seemingly unresolvable M?

I saw what JJ had to say about leaving the divorce till after I got a job, etc.

[Owl]

Do you have any ideas or guidelines as to how to challenge the fears I have? Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

As an ex-soldier and veteran, I have some very simple advice on dealing with your fears.

 

Face them, and take action against them.

 

If you're afraid...step out and act anyway. Rarely does reality match the fears you feel.

 

Your first step is the only one that requires you to face your fears...each subsequent step vanquishes them.

[Athena]

As an ex-soldier and veteran, I have some very simple advice on dealing with your fears.

 

Face them, and take action against them.

 

If you're afraid...step out and act anyway. Rarely does reality match the fears you feel.

 

Your first step is the only one that requires you to face your fears...each subsequent step vanquishes them.

 

And in my case specifically, do you see that me facing my fears begins with divorcing H, or getting a job (which I have avoided, perhaps as my counselor suggested, as a way of not being totally independent of my H).

[Athena]

((((((((((Athena))))))))))

 

You will get "there"...how's the substitute teaching thing going?

 

Schools out, but I don't see myself doing that anyway. I really would like to get a job in the field I did my degree in, but the one prestigious place here locally that hires, is spoiled by choice in candidates with plenty of experience, unlike me....

Also, it helps if you have someone within that organization to vouch for you. ..

 

I have unhappily thought my only immediate options are just to take any low paid job doing anything that doesn't require that degree I worked so hard to get!

[tami-chan]

Schools out, but I don't see myself doing that anyway. I really would like to get a job in the field I did my degree in, but the one prestigious place here locally that hires, is spoiled by choice in candidates with plenty of experience, unlike me....

Also, it helps if you have someone within that organization to vouch for you. ..

 

I have unhappily thought my only immediate options are just to take any low paid job doing anything that doesn't require that degree I worked so hard to get!

 

Oh, no summer school, eh? Why not apply with the DHHS or the welfare office..there is always a shortage of case workers. Do they only take people with Social Work degrees?

[Owl]

And in my case specifically, do you see that me facing my fears begins with divorcing H, or getting a job (which I have avoided, perhaps as my counselor suggested, as a way of not being totally independent of my H).

 

I can't tell you the answer to that question, Athena.

 

Only YOU can.

 

You need to understand which specific fears are holding you in place. Is it the fear of being "alone", or is it the fear of being "poor"?

 

And is the pain your H is putting you through greater than the "fear" holding you in place?

[Athena]

I can't tell you the answer to that question, Athena.

 

Only YOU can.

 

You need to understand which specific fears are holding you in place. Is it the fear of being "alone", or is it the fear of being "poor"?

 

And is the pain your H is putting you through greater than the "fear" holding you in place?

 

I see.

 

Um, no, not the fear of being alone, since I HAVE been alone for years and years on end.

Not so much fear of being 'poor' so much as fear of losing this house. Our first. The home base for the kids and me, and H. What a pity it would be and what a waste it would be to let the house go!

 

Fear of making a mistake in getting a divorce, then seeing H fix himself up and marry some OW and give her all that he's been promising me -- time together, fidelity, love.

 

Fear of fending financially for myself.

 

Fear of not getting a good job.

 

Fear of slipping down worse than I have... instead of building up a better life.

 

Fear of making the SAME mistake in the future and choosing yet the same kind of narcissistic, charming man.

 

Fear of my family looking down their noses at me (siblings x 3, in-laws, mother)... divorce signifies failure, not success.

[Owl]

I see.

 

Um, no, not the fear of being alone, since I HAVE been alone for years and years on end.

Not so much fear of being 'poor' so much as fear of losing this house. Our first. The home base for the kids and me, and H. What a pity it would be and what a waste it would be to let the house go!

 

Fear of making a mistake in getting a divorce, then seeing H fix himself up and marry some OW and give her all that he's been promising me -- time together, fidelity, love.

 

Fear of fending financially for myself.

 

Fear of not getting a good job.

 

Fear of slipping down worse than I have... instead of building up a better life.

 

Fear of making the SAME mistake in the future and choosing yet the same kind of narcissistic, charming man.

 

Fear of my family looking down their noses at me (siblings x 3, in-laws, mother)... divorce signifies failure, not success.

 

Look at the fears you've described...and, take note of HOW you describe them.

 

You don't describe fears of outcomes of your actions...you describe the perceptions others would hold of you for whatever action you take.

 

You seem more worried about what others would think of you for taking action rather than any possible OUTCOME of those actions.

 

That's interesting...most women I know would be worried about how they would/could survive alone.

 

You seem more concerned with how you'll be perceived if you leave your husband.

 

You've given some pretty solid advice here to others...read what you've described here for a minute as though it were written by someone else instead. What would your advice be to this person, and why?

[stillafool]

I see.

 

Um, no, not the fear of being alone, since I HAVE been alone for years and years on end.

Not so much fear of being 'poor' so much as fear of losing this house. Our first. The home base for the kids and me, and H. What a pity it would be and what a waste it would be to let the house go!

 

Fear of making a mistake in getting a divorce, then seeing H fix himself up and marry some OW and give her all that he's been promising me -- time together, fidelity, love.

 

Fear of fending financially for myself.

 

Fear of not getting a good job.

 

Fear of slipping down worse than I have... instead of building up a better life.

 

Fear of making the SAME mistake in the future and choosing yet the same kind of narcissistic, charming man.

 

Fear of my family looking down their noses at me (siblings x 3, in-laws, mother)... divorce signifies failure, not success.

 

I doubt if your family will look down on you for divorcing a man who has cheated on you 13 times (that you know about). If you were in my family I would throw a party in your honor for divorcing him.

 

I can tell you that you need to go NC with your H and start learning to do without him. You ask why you should get a divorce when neither of you wants one? Well he has nothing to lose as he has gotten everything he wants. You on the other hand should get one because he is never going to change (continue to cheat), you will regain your self-respect and independence and cut off this "cancer" called your husband.

[PhoenixRise]

Sigh. Owl, you are correct -- I have not 'continued' the divorce process. I was looking into setting it up, and I was letting H know all along when I was going to see the lawyer, and to see if that would give him the proverbial Wake Up Call, because it seems that nothing really has, despite all his crying and saying he doesn't want to continue what he's been pursuing with OW.

 

I don't even want to risk my sanity any further by going out to live with him. I am still angry deep inside about his continued affairs over a dozen years or more, and have done everything from forgiveness, crying, showing pain, bargaining, hurting him back, to now trying to walk away.

 

From your post Owl, I don't know if you mean you don't believe that I am serious about a divorce? I have paid $300 for each of two visits to a lawyer -- even the first visit was not free -- and I have given the lawyer copies of the paperwork required. All he needs now is the say so and a $7,000.00 retainer to move on and have H served.

I was kind of hoping there was a way that I could have H served while he was here in June, without having to fork over $7g... to see if THAT reality would be enough to jolt him into reality.

But perhaps it's me that needs the jolt. Ha bloody ha.

 

 

Athena

 

After Dday with my husband, I took several steps to give him wake up calls including visiting an attorney. His behavoir did not change and do you know why?

 

I had not changed. Not really. At that point I wasn't going anywhere and in spite of his tears, and his words, he KNEW I wasn't going anywhere.

 

Your husband can sense that you aren't serious about the divorce just yet. Deep down he knows that whatever action you are taking, including spending money on attorney consultations is about HIM and teaching him a lesson or giving him a wake up call. He knows it is not about YOU and giving yourself the life YOU deserve because he knows that you are still hoping for a life with HIM.

 

As long as the actions you take are designed to get a certain reaction out of him, he will continue to hold all the power in the relationship and nothing will change.

[carhill]

Positive steps to confront fears? Here's some ideas.

 

Go out today and open a bank account in your name with a minimum deposit, like 100.00.

 

Join a bridge club (insert any interest you have here); make friends with disinterested third parties there who can become a mutual sounding board.

 

Tell your brother that you are moving to divorce your H; don't elaborate and don't ask for his help. Simply make a positive statement.

 

Prepare your resume. The act of writing down your experiences, education and personal/professional assets in the form of selling yourself will reinforce your positive qualities.

 

Start a journal. Take 10 minutes each day and reflect upon the good and bad and indifferent and write/type a synopsis of it. This is a private thing, not like venting or asking for advice on LS.

 

Good luck!

[PhoenixRise]

Schools out, but I don't see myself doing that anyway. I really would like to get a job in the field I did my degree in, but the one prestigious place here locally that hires, is spoiled by choice in candidates with plenty of experience, unlike me....

Also, it helps if you have someone within that organization to vouch for you. ..

 

I have unhappily thought my only immediate options are just to take any low paid job doing anything that doesn't require that degree I worked so hard to get!

 

 

If you are not going to immediately divorce and will still have the benefit of H's income for awhile, have you though about looking for volunteer opportunities in the field of your choice to gain experience? At least that would get your foot in the door and you could possibly make some good contacts in the industry.

[taylor]

To any posters here -- does going ahead with a divorce help you mentally get 'unstuck' if you are somewhat paralyzed by a seemingly unresolvable M?

I saw what JJ had to say about leaving the divorce till after I got a job, etc.

 

Your depression is what has you stuck, Athena. It's hard to think straight, think positive, and move FORWARD when in the throes of depression. Depression makes you want to hide under the covers, not throw the front door open and step out into the sunshine.

 

Deal with the depression first. You won't be able to gather strength to fight the good fight until you do.

 

Then, resolve to end your marriage to this man who has already told you he has no intention of changing his ways. Your marriage can't be resolved, as in FIXED, because it takes two to fix a marriage and the thing is your husband SEES NO PROBLEM. He's perfectly happy to have his cake and eat it, too. You, on the other hand, have a problem with it..as you should.

 

You are wasting your precious life in some futile hope that this man will change. NOT GONNA HAPPEN. He will not work hard to fix anything that he doesn't see needs fixing.

 

When you can convince your heart that this marriage will NEVER be resolved, then you can start taking steps to dissolve it.

 

Think of it this way..this marriage is toxic. It is killing you every second you remain in it. It is sucking the very life out of you..your spirit, your confidence, your determination, your strength to carry on. You need to get out while you still have some strength left to do what you have to do.

 

The first step in dissolving your marriage is to devise a solid plan.

 

First, cut off all conversation with your husband that isn't absolutely necessary. Don't expose yourself to the emotional torture. Don't let his manipulative ways bend and twist you til you break. The more contact you have with him, the more he erodes your self-confidence..the more he sucks the strength right out of you.

 

You need to stay strong!

 

Next, hit the pavement with one heck of a resume. Getting a job is your number one priority. It is crucial to your exit plan...the very key to the exit door. Network, network, network. Get the word out that you are looking for a job. And don't be afraid to take a job that isn't exactly what you want, as long as it pays enough to get you by. Think short term. Once you have your foot in the door somewhere, other doors will open. It's just how it works.

 

If you sit on your hands at home, lamenting how poor the job market is and how you will never find a job and can't help but remain dependent on your husband, well, that's just what will happen...stuck with no job and totally dependent on a husband who does not have your best interests at heart.

 

Start divorce proceedings with lawyers who understand your goals. Staying married, having EMA's on the side, and remaining dependent on your husband's money...this is what those idiot lawyers wanted you to do. Were they even listening to what your goals are? Be very clear with the lawyers on where you want to be in 6 months, one year, 5 years.

 

You need to divorce your husband so that you have an opportunity to be happy for the first time in a long time. He will never be able to make you happy no matter how much you may want him to. Once you are a free woman...legally free to meet and date other men...pursue meaningful relationships that are on the up and up, then you will have a chance at real happiness...time together, love, fidelity, trust.

 

At the same time, you rebuild yourself. Find worth in a new and demanding job. Find friends with whom you can socialize and lean on for support.

 

Your children are grown and old enough to know the truth about what is happening in your marriage. Instead of taking care of them, lean on them a little for support. You have been there for them all these years. Now it's their turn to help mom a little.

 

The sooner you can find Athena again..that strong, independent woman hiding inside of you, your fears will dissipate. That image of a weak, helpless woman clinging to an unresponsive, selfish husband will be gone for good. You won't even recognize her 5 years from now.

 

I can't wait for the day when you say to yourself, "Gosh, I don't know what I was so afraid of. I should have done that a long time ago."

[taylor]

I see.

 

 

Not so much fear of being 'poor' so much as fear of losing this house.

 

I understand the sentimental attachment..first house..home base for kids. But selling the house and getting a new place..a fresh new start...may be a blessing in disguise. Someplace to call your own. Someplace without all the haunting memories of a cheating husband.

 

Fear of making a mistake in getting a divorce, then seeing H fix himself up and marry some OW and give her all that he's been promising me -- time together, fidelity, love.

 

You will NOT be making a mistake by divorcing your serial cheating husband...unless you change your mind and decide you WANT a husband that cheats on you. He's not going to fix himself up for you or anyone else. If he couldn't do it with wife #1 or wife #2, what are the chances he can do it with wife #3 ( a cheater as well)?

 

You yourself said he is a charmer. That means he promises things because he knows that's what you want to hear, but he knows full well he has no intention of every making good on those promises. He talks the talk because he knows how to keep you dangling on the string.

 

Fear of fending financially for myself.

 

Until you make one strong concerted effort to find a job, your fear here is unfounded. How will you ever know if you can make it financially on your own unless you try...really try.

 

Fear of not getting a good job.

 

See above.

 

Fear of slipping down worse than I have... instead of building up a better life.

 

Last year my father was on life support for cancer. The doctors wanted to disconnect, telling me he had less than 2 weeks to live. I told them I didn't want to disconnect until he started to feel a little stronger. They told me THIS was the strongest he was ever going to be. Waiting a few more days would just render him weaker and even less likely to come of the life support.

 

You WILL slip down further and further into the abyss the longer you stay in this marriage. Your best opportunity to build up a better life for yourself is right now..when you still have some strength left to do what you need to do.

 

Fear of making the SAME mistake in the future and choosing yet the same kind of narcissistic, charming man.

 

No, Athena, you are smart. Now you know the signs. You know what to watch for. You know what to run away from. You know what you are vulnerable/ gullible to. You know what to protect yourself from now. Resolve to never go there again.

 

Fear of my family looking down their noses at me (siblings x 3, in-laws, mother)... divorce signifies failure, not success.

 

Your marriage failed a long time ago, Athena. The day your husband decided he wasn't going to stop unzipping his pants for other women.

You did everything in your power to save your marriage. He did everything he could to sink the ship.

 

Something is inherently wrong with your family if they would look down on a betrayed spouse who stood by a lying, cheating man-whore for years and years and years.

 

Their opinion would be worth nothing to me because it has no grounds. It's a$$-backwards thinking.

 

Surround yourself with people who do not condone cheating and who are willing to support people like yourself who have been victimized by it.