Author Athena Posted July 9, 2009 Author Posted July 9, 2009 My friends, thank you for all your help and posts. I appreciate your insights. I must say you show great perception... and some paragraphs as SO spot-on as to me, and to my H.... I will go through all the posts again, since there is so much help there, and a second and third reading brings out more stuff for me. As to my situation -- yes, I am 44 without a recent job to my credit. I do, however, have an undergrad degree from three years ago... I plan to do a Master's... or at least a one year course to convert my degree into something with more precise skills. I am still looking into this, exploring the various fields and seeing what my own skill set is. I am in a Transitional stage -- not only am I an Empty Nester, but my M is not looking good. I have lived essentially, on my own, for a long long time, raising the children, and running the household, and earning my degree which I was busy with for 6 years. So I was fairly busy... then we bought our first house a year and a half ago, and I spent several months doing work on it, and organizing workmen for the jobs I didn't know how to do (like laying hardwood floors, but I DID fix the toilets, ha ha, myself! Painting, stripping wallpaper, etc). I must admit that I was somewhat emotionally wiped out with dealing with my H's affairs over the years... from being a strong wife, I eventually lost my confidence somewhat. As for the situation now -- we have a family vacation (and reunion) coming up overseas... H will be there for 2 weeks, out of the 3 weeks that the kids and I will be there. The kids each are taking a friend too... my siblings will be there, my mom, aunts, cousins, etc... this is not the time to stage a Fight with my H. The thing is, he was home over Xmas and January... yes we were still intimate then. But then in Feb/March, I found out he was involved in a new affair at work, so I didn't meet up with him then... he last came home in June... I refused to have sex with him. So -- for the first time in our M, I will not sleep with him... I have had enough. We can get along civilly for the most part. I DO still enjoy his company. I DO still like having him around, and I unfortunately still love him although I have detached from him so much because of the affairs. You guys who can see my H's narcissism have really helped me -- thanks Reggie for all the info you sent me via PM, I bought two of the books recommended. Bent thanks for your support my friend Sugar, 2 Sunny your logic is sound. Owl -- spot on with your analysis of H's only acknowledging the pain, and not being remorseful... he has openly stated when he was here in June that he feels NO remorse for having affairs... but he is sorry I feel hurt...And like you and others have said, I have to do a cost-benefit analysis, and yet I am not one who does this... and like Taylor and others have said, I have been one to say "To hell with you, you can't buy me, and get lost" and proudly hold my head up. After all, I have seen my own mother take care of us four siblings on her own, and her mother take care of 3 children, so I know I too can do it. Taylor your imagery of the red hot branding iron sizzling into my flesh was very powerful -- I had a physical jolt as I read the description.. and realized my H just does what he does, for himself, and nary a care for the pain continually inflicted on me and the family. Financially, yes, JJ is right -- my H can screw us and do as he has threatened many a time in the past -- disappear and not send us one cent. He is not a citizen of this country, he travels abroad for work, and one government negotiating with another government to have him pay alimony to me for ten years is not going to make him honor that -- he CAN wriggle out of it very easily. So, it's best not to have to rely on him wanting to pay me anything. However, I do trust that he will continue to pay for the kid's education and needs, since he did pay for his first child's needs up til age 26! I also think he would pay the mortgage on this house, since it is in both of our names, and it's his first house he has ever bought, and doesn't want to lose it... it is after all, an investment. Bottom line is that he is narcissistic and he can and will turn on me or anyone else that is not serving his needs -- now I do not 'admire' him like I always have, and I have taken to being blunt with him -- some of you figured out the reason was to try make him mend his ways!!! Thank you! Out of desperation I have tried everything to 'help' him change... at first by being supportive and understanding, more recently by giving him the proverbial kick up the bum. So -- thanks to those of you who have the belief in me that I am smart, healthy, and able-bodied! I am! I am perfectly capable of working and while I have applied for several jobs online... I admit I have not poured all my time and energy into it! Also, I have gone for jobs perhaps slightly out of my reach since I do not have the experience needed, even if I have the research, computer skills, and people skills wanted. I admit I could do better in this department. Part of it is my depression, part of it is learned helplessness, part of it is fear, part of it is laziness/or used to my life, but the truth is that I DO want a job. I do want to be useful and valuable to society. I have to put more urgent pressure on myself to get a paying job. Sure -- I will not be able to support this household and or the kids on my own! Not now, perhaps in a few years time with more work experience. I will get there. What to do with my H... he knows how I feel about him and our situation. I have been open with him. I haven't given him any false hope about our future together. I have told him I want a divorce. He and I had some very emotionally draining 'conversations' while he was here recently, and I felt wiped out... so I agreed to leave it until Xmas when he is next coming home. We are however, meeting up next month, as I said. I am not sleeping with him, I am not leading him on. I am living my life with my children and I have to get myself looking at more jobs and at an educational course too. In my state, once you file the paperwork for a D, there is a freeze on it for three months "cooling off" period... I have a lot to do. First, kids and house, next me and work/study opportunities. Vacation/ reunion. And, over the next few months, to apply for divorce. I stayed with him all this time because I loved him, because I had HOPE for our future and for him to come through for us, and because I believed him all this time when he said he 'wants to do the right thing'. I have since become more of a realist. I do read these boards.... My friends, thank you for your input, advice, insights, support, and hugs! Thank you WWIU! I just saw your post, as I hit the 'submit' button.
Author Athena Posted July 9, 2009 Author Posted July 9, 2009 Lostsoulmate, thank you for your PM -- it made me cry! You showed me understanding and support and belief in my strength which I thought I'd lost. Donnamaybe, thank you for your vote of confidence and saying I need to get into a good position. Notsure, I was hoping you would post! And I acknowledge that you can spot a fellow -tell-em-what-they want to hear! Sigh. BrokenMuse, and all who say I should go for Alimony... the lawyer reckons in a long-term marriage such as this, I should be seeing some alimony for ten years. That would definitely help to get me 'caught up' to where I would have been if I had been concentrating on a career all these years. H and I agreed to have me home for the household, kids, bill paying, cooking, etc esp. since he was away most of the time at work abroad, and I was a full time student for years... now I must gain the financial piece on my own. Spark -- see, I used your post as a jumping point to write the letter to my H. I admit I was being provocative with my H, and I did this to get him to think about his actions... to maybe promise Change, but he couldn't do this... at least now he is being a little more honest in this way. You are right, essentially I have been alone for many years.
ForumFool Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Awesome letter to your hubby ,.he is a creep...I loled at the hair and belly ..age comment....good girl I may use parts of your letter some day...Being you have to do a 3 month cooling off period anyways...why not file now??? Why file when HE wants it done???? He may be up to something ...
Author Athena Posted July 9, 2009 Author Posted July 9, 2009 Awesome letter to your hubby ,.he is a creep...I loled at the hair and belly ..age comment....good girl I may use parts of your letter some day...Being you have to do a 3 month cooling off period anyways...why not file now??? Why file when HE wants it done???? He may be up to something ... Hi ForumF, lol, it was done on purpose the comments about his 'belly' and his hair, because I know he is 'sensitive' to his looks -- apparently narcissists do NOT age gracefully!. He DOES go out to dinner and bars and parties with a whole bunch of twenty-something-year olds and their even younger g/f's!!! -- the girls are younger than his first born daughter! Yes, I see he denies it in his email, but it's a technicality -- he claims he's not hanging out with anyone in that age group but two trainees... at work, right?... I am talking about soccer and pool... and private socializing.... he's told me in detail of these young couples (seemed proud of the youngsters accepting him, despite his age), but I thought I would bring in a touch of reality and contrast his and their age group. The AP's have been more than a decade younger than him (I am 5 years younger than him).... it's just ridiculous that he's leading a Single's lifestyle, all the while being a married man, with a track record of so many affairs, it would make most cheaters blush. Yeah, agreed... why not file now? Except that the lawyer wants a $7,000.00 retainer, now! I wouldn't expect H to 'fight' anything, since I would be completely reasonable and fair with H. So, perhaps it won't have to 'go to court' to be 'fought' over and therefore we might not have to pay so much... but... we have to put that kind of money elsewhere right now, so it's not available now. I am sure it would be more available at the end of the year, in December... plus... that's when H is next home. He would have to 'be served' and I don't see that being easy while he is in Asia. So, all in all, it makes sense to leave it until he's next home in December. Who knows how the family vacation will go next month. I hope we don't get into a weird 'War of the Roses', or 'Kramer vrs Kramer' movie type nightmare.
Author Athena Posted July 9, 2009 Author Posted July 9, 2009 <<<Athena>>>:):):) Boldjack! You see me gaining strength...
torranceshipman Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Wow...he's a complete douchebag. The way I read his email...he is still condescending you and being annoying and just doesn't get it. Anyway, a guy like this deserves none of your time, deserves no chance to explain himself...deserves nothing. He is a jackass! Good for you for filing for D and moving on with your life - you are a smart 40 something with grown up kids and a whole exciting new life in front of you - throw him off like the loser baggage he is. He sounds like a sad old man who other people will laugh at when he goes out hanging with his 20yr old buddies....makes him look like a desperate old guy having a mid life crisis, but hilariously he is a bit stupid and doesn't realise that he is making a fool of himself. When you;re remarried one day to a hot, great guy, you can look at your exH when he is alone, old and attempting to womanize and you can feel a bit smug about it all
Author Athena Posted July 9, 2009 Author Posted July 9, 2009 When you;re remarried one day to a hot, great guy, you can look at your exH when he is alone, old and attempting to womanize and you can feel a bit smug about it all you are sweet to make me look at it that way. Thank you for your post Torranceshipman!!
OFGnomore Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 He is one sick MF and you are blessed to be rid of him. OMG. Ditto. Run.
imagine Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Athena, While my PC has been running Linux I have been unable to post at Loveshack. I have been lurking. I do hope that you will have clear resolution. Regards.
PhoenixRise Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Wow Athena, Just Wow I got exhausted just reading through your H's letters, I can't even imagine how draining it must have been for you dealing with him year after year. Nothing is ever really his fault is it? Or if it IS his fault, he should just go off somewhere and die so you can be happy. Seems like he has been messing with your head for a very long time. You have loved this man for your entire adult life so I completely get why you would want to save him from himself. You don't want him to come to the end of his life and find himself old and alone having driven everyone who loves him away all because of his own horrible behavior. I am glad to see that you are working your way out of this toxic marriage. You give really excellent advise on this forum so I am sure that going forward, you are going to use all your wisdom and compassion and do the right thing for yourself and your family. I hope that you will be very kind to yourself Athena. Good Luck
jj33 Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Hi Athena. I am confused. Have you talked to H some more?
Author Athena Posted July 10, 2009 Author Posted July 10, 2009 Wow Athena, Just Wow I got exhausted just reading through your H's letters, I can't even imagine how draining it must have been for you dealing with him year after year. Nothing is ever really his fault is it? Or if it IS his fault, he should just go off somewhere and die so you can be happy. Seems like he has been messing with your head for a very long time. I find this very validating, Phoenix. Thank you for that. You have loved this man for your entire adult life so I completely get why you would want to save him from himself. You don't want him to come to the end of his life and find himself old and alone having driven everyone who loves him away all because of his own horrible behavior. Yes!! You 'get' me...
Author Athena Posted July 10, 2009 Author Posted July 10, 2009 Athena, While my PC has been running Linux I have been unable to post at Loveshack. I have been lurking. I do hope that you will have clear resolution. Regards. Aww... we've missed you, Imagine! Thx.
Author Athena Posted July 10, 2009 Author Posted July 10, 2009 Hi Athena. I am confused. Have you talked to H some more? Hi JJ, nope, H never got back to me ... the last emails we wrote back and forth (short ones)-- after the last one I posted on this thread-- basically had him 'hinting' that he is going to do 'what's right'... but, he was STILL beating around the bush. Did I post something confusing? I can try clarify...
jj33 Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 No nothing confusing just didnt realize you had discussed property settlement together. Im so happy for you that you are taking steps now to take this forward. Its been a long time coming. A very long time. The house is tricky. It sounds like as a matter of pride he would keep making mortgage payments and like he wouldnt be in a position to give you a "clean break" (meaning you could get a lump sum now and not have to worry about getting the alimony in periodic payments). As 2sunny said you will also want to take out an insurance policy on his life so that if something happens to him, you have a replacement for his payments (also for mortgage payments if you dont already have mortgage insurance). Usually the order requires the H to make the premium payments but you may be able to get it so that he pays you a monthly amount that includes the amount for the premium payment so that you dont have to worry about him paying from overseas. If its a term life policy which it probably would be you can be the owner of the policy. But these are all details. The important thing is that you are now on track . Congratulations (as odd as that sounds)
Author Athena Posted July 10, 2009 Author Posted July 10, 2009 No nothing confusing just didnt realize you had discussed property settlement together. Im so happy for you that you are taking steps now to take this forward. Its been a long time coming. A very long time. The house is tricky. It sounds like as a matter of pride he would keep making mortgage payments and like he wouldnt be in a position to give you a "clean break" (meaning you could get a lump sum now and not have to worry about getting the alimony in periodic payments). As 2sunny said you will also want to take out an insurance policy on his life so that if something happens to him, you have a replacement for his payments (also for mortgage payments if you dont already have mortgage insurance). Usually the order requires the H to make the premium payments but you may be able to get it so that he pays you a monthly amount that includes the amount for the premium payment so that you dont have to worry about him paying from overseas. If its a term life policy which it probably would be you can be the owner of the policy. But these are all details. The important thing is that you are now on track . Congratulations (as odd as that sounds) I have tried to discuss property settlements together a while back. H flip-flops between "take it all" to "so you think you have all the power? Well, you won't see a cent from me..." to "Yes, of course I will pay for the house" to "don't worry, you will continue to get my salary each month" I believe he may 'play nice' initially, but that this would not last very long, certainly not for years! As it is, the house doesn't have that much equity in it, since we've only put a deposit down on it and been paying the mortgage for 18 mths... the REAL "assets" for us is H's Future Earning Potential... and that is the one which he can withdraw at any minute, literally... Yes, we have mortgage insurance, but we must get his life insurance re-instated. We see each other next month, then again only in December. I am guessing that December will be the time to have D papers drawn up and filed.
jj33 Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Ah I see hence the lawyers comments. So you have whatever equity you have in the house and that is it so if he stopped paying then you would lose the house. OK well that shouldnt change your decision but as he is flip flopping I wouldnt assume ANYTHING about the house or whether he will make payments in the future. He could give you his interest in the house as part of the divorce settlement. If you could afford mortgage payments that wouldnt be a bad thing. It decreases the ties in the future and if he stopped making payments for some reason then you wouldnt be jointly and severally liable on his half of the mortgage. By december you will be a lot further along with your job search etc and things will look much different. Big hugs
taylor Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 We see each other next month, then again only in December. I am guessing that December will be the time to have D papers drawn up and filed. I hope you stick to this plan, Athena. And in the meantime, I hope you find a suitable job. You certainly deserve better than the life you have with him. You must be a very patient woman that you put up with this man for so long. I think most women would have ditched him long ago. I think once you divorce, you will feel like a heavy weight has been lifted off your shoulders...and a brand new world full of opportunities will open up to you. Best of Luck to you.
lostsoulmate Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Athena, This is something I wrote during the initial process of leaving... I think it is relevant to your situation: Force-able change is still change. It is just the kind of change you do when someone, or something drop kicks you into to having to do it. It can be a car wreck, break-up, loss of friendship, or even creating a new outfit based on the weather. Force-able changes... are my favorite. They make you realize (sometimes after it's too late, hence the force-able part) you have to change right now. NO questions, NO pussy footing, NO procrastination, just get it over with. Finally... as sometimes when you hold on you just prolong your grief. Once you let go or are forced to change the situation... time starts to heal the wound. You can finally quite picking at the scabs! Peace, hope and brightness to all! Good luck, remember it doesn't matter which direction you choose at this crossroad in life, it just matters that you decided not to continue on the broken path you had been on. A new road, a new life, and a new better you. You have the strength.... I wish you the best.
Owl Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Have you discussed with a lawyer anything along the lines of seizing your H's assets stateside as soon as you file for divorce, given that your lawyer believes there's such a huge risk of H using his overseas activities to avoid his financial responsibilities to you? Have you INSISTED that your H begin sending his entire paycheck into a stateside account? (so that you can potentially drain it/have it seized as soon as you file divorce)? It seems like KNOWING that this is a risk, there should be some actions that you could take to mitigate it. Just some thoughts, friend.
jj33 Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Owl now you see why I was saying she should not hit hard in her emails. Its a very tricky situation. There is no need to antagonize him. To the extent that the only real asset they have is his salary, its crazy to do anything to give him reason to stop sending money home until she has herself all set. To the extent that the house (with little equity in it) is their only asset in the US, and if he stopped sending money she would be liable for the mortgage debt and have no money to pay it, "taking the high road" doesnt do her alot of good. There is nothing she can do until she files for divorce and she shouldnt file until she has herself where she is in a position to support herself if he gets angry and stops sending money. So while its really nice to say oh dont place material over your mental health, until she has a job its like saying so you can stay with relatives if you need to, just act now. And in this economy finding a job when you are new to the job market could take several months (at a minimum). Its easy to be indignant at Athenas situation if you arent the one who would be on the streets if your house went into forclosure. Waiting a few months until she has a job is far wiser. Now maybe you all understand why her lawyers said what they said. It would have been irresponsible for them NOT to tell her. And Taylor maybe pimply faced 17 year olds can find jobs, but I dont think Athena is looking to work as a clerk in a 7/11 or as a junior office clerk. That wouldnt allow her to pay her mortgage. She needs time to put a proper strategy in place.
Toodamnpragmatic Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 and it was to the first posts you had and I just shook my head in disgust at typical male behaviour and lament the position you are in based on his job, country and what could be tenuous support. He is a narcissist of the the first degree, but one many may actually find a part envying. A beautiful loving wife at home, good kids, an exciting career that allows him to earn huge dollars based solely on him being absent from his family. He leads two lives. As much as he may miss you and the children, he has the life of Reilly..... Short periods where he is the doting husband and father, great sex at home, vacations with the family and a charmed life. All he has to do is have a supporting spouse at home and a pay check to send. At work, he can be charming, work the hours that needs to be devoted to the job, heck even look like the most ambitious in the office by staying late probably writing emails to you (a very good writer that he is). He can play, carouse, drink, golf, tennis, read, movies or do anything that excites him. He claims he is reviled by his family and friends and I find it harder and harder to believe. If he was divorced and had a string of 13 girlfriends over the years would they hate him or just call him a cad? Would they know about it if you said nothing? No...... He leads his life as he sees fit.
Recommended Posts