butcher's hook Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I've seen a lot of women who don't necessarily "approach", but they are the first to engage. They won't come out and explicitly say "I want to give you my number", but they'll either say innocuous little things or something else to get you talking to them. They're smart because they don't just sit and wait for things to happen, but they also don't take the "man's role". I consider myself one of those women. Though I would NEVER approach a man first in terms of an overt approach like walking up to him to make conversation, I am very good at putting out the right signals. Eye contact is the key opener ladies. If you think about it, let's say for example you are at work and you walk into your boss' office and they are on the phone and you need to ask them something, you would never interrupt them while on the phone, you would wait until they make eye contact with you for them to signal you to either wait or catch you later. The eyes are the KEY component to opening up communication in any situation. If a woman won't even make eye contact with a man she finds appealing there is no chance in hell he will ever know she is interested. And why would you expect a man to approach a woman who is completely in her own little world? That is simply TOO MUCH to ask of a man ladies. If you can also smile and be playful extra bonus points for you. You can't think "what if he rejects" me, you have to do your part and leave the rest up to him. Kizik you gave some AWESOME advice in this thread, totally impressed!!
donnamaybe Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 In my experience, no man has ever shot me down the way I've seen women shoot down men. Many times, some men do this in the "locker room" setting with their "buds." They won't display behavior in public that would make them appear to be jackasses, but when alone with their friends, they'll often talk about a gal they "did" in disgusting terminology like she's some kind of a piece of meat. Just because they don't put the behavior on display for all to see and hear doesn't mean it doesn't go on. I'm not saying, though, that there aren't mean spirited women who cut guys off at the knees in public. I've seen it, and it makes me cringe and want to smack the smug, snotty looks off their made up little faces.
Kamille Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 ah shhucks Kizik, you make me blush! This site has helped me understand men a lot better. So thank you guys! I was still pondering the quesiton of these perfectly decent girls who I'm sure are at least average looking afraid to coming off as fools if they flirt with guys. Another theory? Girls - maybe you trip yourselves up when it comes to flirting. Like I think he's cute and I would smile at him but I'm not hot enough and then he will think I'm a complete idiot for even thinking that a cutie like him could be interested in a girl like me? Which would mean that all that is tripping you up is fear of rejection and criticism. Sure, I would like to think everyone thinks I'm hot. You know what, that's not likely to happen. To anyone. Fortunately, there are a few guys out there who think I'm hot. That's enough for me.
kizik Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I consider myself one of those women. Though I would NEVER approach a man first in terms of an overt approach like walking up to him to make conversation, I am very good at putting out the right signals. Eye contact is the key opener ladies. If you think about it, let's say for example you are at work and you walk into your boss' office and they are on the phone and you need to ask them something, you would never interrupt them while on the phone, you would wait until they make eye contact with you for them to signal you to either wait or catch you later. The eyes are the KEY component to opening up communication in any situation. If a woman won't even make eye contact with a man she finds appealing there is no chance in hell he will ever know she is interested. And why would you expect a man to approach a woman who is completely in her own little world? That is simply TOO MUCH to ask of a man ladies. If you can also smile and be playful extra bonus points for you. You can't think "what if he rejects" me, you have to do your part and leave the rest up to him. Soooo true. Listen to this woman, she's a pro at getting the boys! Kizik you gave some AWESOME advice in this thread' date=' totally impressed!! [/quote'] Thanks doll. Hope you're having a good Friday!
Kamille Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Many times, some men do this in the "locker room" setting with their "buds." They won't display behavior in public that would make them appear to be jackasses, but when alone with their friends, they'll often talk about a gal they "did" in disgusting terminology like she's some kind of a piece of meat. Just because they don't put the behavior on display for all to see and hear doesn't mean it doesn't go on. I'm not saying, though, that there aren't mean spirited women who cut guys off at the knees in public. I've seen it, and it makes me cringe and want to smack the smug, snotty looks off their made up little faces. I don't think we're talking about quite the same thing. I'm talking about making women feel unattractive or like losers for approaching a guy. Talking about women like they are pieces of meat is something else altogether in my book.
butcher's hook Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Another theory? Girls - maybe you trip yourselves up when it comes to flirting. Like I think he's cute and I would smile at him but I'm not hot enough and then he will think I'm a complete idiot for even thinking that a cutie like him could be interested in a girl like me? That's a really good point. I think in this case there may be a little of this happening, given how people have described the OP as being very attractive. She may be thinking to herself, well I am really pretty and if this is true then men need to notice this for themselves and approach me. This is where the insecurity comes into play. But what really attractive women don't realize is that, for the simple fact that your appearance might intimidate many men you must make yourself more accesible moreso since perhaps that type of guy you are interested in who also finds you attractive might be totally intimidated about stepping up to you. Attaction is just a silly game of figuring out who you coincide with in terms of reciprocal appeal and who you don't. I keep seeing things like "all these guys I am not attracted to are making pases at me" what these women are really saying is "does that mean I am less attractive than I think I am?" See when you start to doubt yourself like that then you lose self confidence. What it means is that those particular guys find YOU attractive and actually have the cojones to do something about it. You should rejoice that not frown upon it! A guy you find attractive could very well be just as shy as you are, it's your job to also help him out to make his away over to you. Soooo true. Listen to this woman, she's a pro at getting the boys! Uhh-oh that almost makes me sound like a lady of the night! That I am not! Just sayin'... Thanks doll. Hope you're having a good Friday! Gearing up for the weekend hot stuff and you?
donnamaybe Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I don't think we're talking about quite the same thing. I'm talking about making women feel unattractive or like losers for approaching a guy. Talking about women like they are pieces of meat is something else altogether in my book. Gotcha. I was kind of focusing on how we all treat each other as a whole. No, I've not seen many (a few) guys totally humiliate a girl in public. They wait until she can't hear.
kizik Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Uhh-oh that almost makes me sound like a lady of the night! That I am not! Just sayin'... Nah, just a girl who knows a good thing when she sees it... like that dude you're dating, I suppose? Professor Serious? Gearing up for the weekend hot stuff and you? Nothing! It's going to be really boring. I really want to start exercising again, because my muscle tone evaporated MONTHS ago.
butcher's hook Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 like that dude you're dating, I suppose? Professor Serious? :lmao: LOVE that!!! :lmao: He actually came through rather nicely a couple of nights ago, I was impressed. I'm telling you sometimes it feels like he is reading my posts on here it is really creepy. Then again I think I may have just discussed that with you in private...? Can't remember now. C'mon it's the weekend that alone is something to rejoice at.
Author shadowplay Posted July 10, 2009 Author Posted July 10, 2009 So friggin true! In my twenties, I thought there was 1) something wrong with my dating life or 2) something wrong with me or 3) both of the above. I stopped focusing on what I "didn't" have, started focusing on what was working for me and now both me (an average looking woman with a decent brain) and my dating life are doing much better. Moral of the story: stop trying to figure it out, stop focusing on yourself and start looking outwards: meet people! Who cares if they end up being friends or a date? Which leads me to all the comments women made about appearing like fools if they flirt with guys... Really??? You think a guy is going to react like an 8 year old if a woman is friendly and flirtatious with him? ("eewww cooties!") Come on! I've come to realize that men are a lot less harsh on women then women are on men. In my experience, no man has ever shot me down the way I've seen women shoot down men. Maybe that's the problem... You girls might think men will react the way you react and think when a guy you're not attracted approaches you? Do you think the men who approach you are fools? You're selling yourself short Kamille with that description! The "ew cooties" reaction is one of my fears. The one time I was flirtatious with a guy (last summer when he asked me to hang out) he acted like I had a contagious disease. Later on he said I was sending off some weird "vibe" that freaked him out, and it made "sense" later to him when I revealed that I liked him. It's true that after we got together I sent him a crazy text, but during the hang out my flirtation wasn't even that overt. His reaction was bizarre, and I think has resulted in me sealing up. I mean if he didn't like me that's fine, but did he really have to treat me like a leper because I was sending him some flirty vibes? I know I'm overly sensitive, but that experience was so painful for me (I really liked him) that I'm scared of the same thing happening again. I can't believe I've adopted the same mindset I had when I was an insecure preteen! I'm a lot more confident than I was back then and realize that I'm attractive to men, yet since last year I've been all clammed up around guys.
Author shadowplay Posted July 10, 2009 Author Posted July 10, 2009 Btw, this thread has made me realize something self-defeating I do around men. I rarely make eye-contact, especially when I first meet a guy, and don't smile very much. I never make eye contact with strangers, and I don't think I've ever smiled at a stranger I found cute. In fact when I'm walking around during my day, I consciously avoid looking at strangers. If I pass a guy on the street, I'll look in the other direction as he walks by. I think this is a hang over from when I was younger and had a fear of being in crowds. It's also sort of this mentality I have of "don't think about men," which is completely nonsensical since I end up spending a lot of time thinking about them. But it's the mentality that I just won't worry about dating, and they can find me if they want me. Of course, nobody will approach me if I have this kind of demeanor.
Trialbyfire Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Btw, this thread has made me realize something self-defeating I do around men. I rarely make eye-contact, especially when I first meet a guy, and don't smile very much. I never make eye contact with strangers, and I don't think I've ever smiled at a stranger I found cute. In fact when I'm walking around during my day, I consciously avoid looking at strangers. If I pass a guy on the street, I'll look in the other direction as he walks by. I think this is a hang over from when I was younger and had a fear of being in crowds. It's also sort of this mentality I have of "don't think about men," which is completely nonsensical since I end up spending a lot of time thinking about them. But it's the mentality that I just won't worry about dating, and they can find me if they want me. Of course, nobody will approach me if I have this kind of demeanor.Good stuff, shadowplay! Keep looking closer at it.
kizik Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Shadow, I'm so glad this thread (which YOU made) has helped you evaluate your demeanor more. You are already making progress, whether you realize it or not. Great work!
Author shadowplay Posted July 10, 2009 Author Posted July 10, 2009 Shadow, I'm so glad this thread (which YOU made) has helped you evaluate your demeanor more. You are already making progress, whether you realize it or not. Great work! Thanks. Now, let's see if I can change it. The whole thing is kind of scary to me, so I'll try to take small steps in that direction.
Star Gazer Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I never make eye contact with strangers, and I don't think I've ever smiled at a stranger I found cute. In fact when I'm walking around during my day, I consciously avoid looking at strangers. Really? I honestly think I make eye contact with just about everyone I see who looks my way. Do you smile and say hello to strangers? Like, for example, walking in and out of a building? I do.
Author shadowplay Posted July 10, 2009 Author Posted July 10, 2009 Really? I honestly think I make eye contact with just about everyone I see who looks my way. Do you smile and say hello to strangers? Like, for example, walking in and out of a building? I do. Nope. It may also be partly where I live. Northeasterners are notoriously cold; Californians tend to be more friendly in my experience. But, yeah, I'm worse than average.
EddieN Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Btw, this thread has made me realize something self-defeating I do around men. I rarely make eye-contact, especially when I first meet a guy, and don't smile very much. I never make eye contact with strangers, and I don't think I've ever smiled at a stranger I found cute. In fact when I'm walking around during my day, I consciously avoid looking at strangers. If I pass a guy on the street, I'll look in the other direction as he walks by. I think this is a hang over from when I was younger and had a fear of being in crowds. It's also sort of this mentality I have of "don't think about men," which is completely nonsensical since I end up spending a lot of time thinking about them. But it's the mentality that I just won't worry about dating, and they can find me if they want me. Of course, nobody will approach me if I have this kind of demeanor. I said in my own thread that I can only act if the girl AT LEAST makes eye contact. If I make eye contact, smile at a girl, and don't get a smile back, I'm not going to approach her.
BobSacamento Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I said in my own thread that I can only act if the girl AT LEAST makes eye contact. If I make eye contact, smile at a girl, and don't get a smile back, I'm not going to approach her. It's funny but really it's that simple. I do the same thing.
tanbark813 Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 SP's not alone in not making eye contact. I've noticed that a lot of girls, when alone, avoid making eye contact with strangers. Not that they just happen to not make eye contact but you can tell they're specifically avoiding it and are in don't-rape-me mode.
Phateless Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 I think it depends on where you are and what kind of mate you're looking for. Dating sites are a great start, and major metropolitan areas tend to have more single people because there's more action and nightlife, etc.
Kamille Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Gotcha. I was kind of focusing on how we all treat each other as a whole. No, I've not seen many (a few) guys totally humiliate a girl in public. They wait until she can't hear. You know, if you asked me to evaluate when a guy was honest, wether it was when he was interacting with her or trash talking her with the boys, I would say he was honest when talking to her and "performing" when he was doing the locker room talk.
kizik Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Seconded. You gotta brag to your boyz, but the truth is in the bedroom.
Kamille Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 SP's not alone in not making eye contact. I've noticed that a lot of girls, when alone, avoid making eye contact with strangers. Not that they just happen to not make eye contact but you can tell they're specifically avoiding it and are in don't-rape-me mode. I agree. I avoid making eye contact with men as a general rule. The only time I force myself to make eye contact is when I think a guy is cute, or in comfortable social situations such as parties. And I know why I avoid eye contact. I've been followed home more then once by guys. It's scary. Guys, don't follow complete strangers!
Cora Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 The whole eye contact thing....I avoid it at all costs. It's not that I'm not interested in the guy. Actually, the more I'm interested in him the more I avoid it. I guess that doesn't make much sense huh? It's like the hotter the guy is the more I look away and avoid his eyes. I'm sitting there thinking "oh gawd he is way outta my league, must look away before he notices I'm interested." I just completely freak out! I am so self conscious it's pathetic. Most of the time when I see a guy staring at me I'm like "oh crap! what the heck do I have on my face now?" I become mortified. I don't know why I think this way and I'm trying to change it. I hate that I give off signals that I'm not interested when I really am. So many lost opportunities.....sigh.
Isolde Posted July 10, 2009 Posted July 10, 2009 Just one thing. There ARE girls that have been shot down by guys before. I've been rejected several times and not let down "easy" at all. I'm not saying this to complain; rather, I think I DO understand how guys feel when they are rejected. To me, this is actually a good thing.
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