tanbark813 Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Please spare me, no one else here is any better. I don't see any of you changing your opinions just because someone else offfered a different one. The difference is no one is asking you to change your opinion. Pot meet kettle because I don't do anything different from you and the other posters here, male and female. Actually you do. The difference between you and I--and you and a lot of other posters--is that I acknowledge and accept that you and I have differing opinions on porn and strip clubs. That's fine. I'm not asking you to change your opinion or agree with me. You do, however, want people to believe what you believe and you shame anyone who thinks otherwise and consider anyone who disagrees with you about porn and strip clubs to be wrong and be scum. Someone already gave you the best advice: Find someone who shares your beliefs. If you don't like porn and don't like strip clubs, then fine. Just date guys who share your opinions. I'm not sure why you're so insistant that everyone think what you think. It's an effort in vain anyway.
AlektraClementine Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 The difference is no one is asking you to change your opinion. Actually you do. The difference between you and I--and you and a lot of other posters--is that I acknowledge and accept that you and I have differing opinions on porn and strip clubs. That's fine. I'm not asking you to change your opinion or agree with me. You do, however, want people to believe what you believe and you shame anyone who thinks otherwise and consider anyone who disagrees with you about porn and strip clubs to be wrong and be scum. Someone already gave you the best advice: Find someone who shares your beliefs. If you don't like porn and don't like strip clubs, then fine. Just date guys who share your opinions. I'm not sure why you're so insistant that everyone think what you think. It's an effort in vain anyway. Dead on. Exactly. It's about being a grown up and choosing partners who already meet your criteria. Not trying to mold and shape everyone around you to meet YOUR idea of "right". And I don't buy the "trying to make the world a better place" argument. You do know there are starving children, wars going on, planets going up in smoke, etc. You'd be better served focusing your efforts there. Or if it's about women's rights....maybe get into issues like pay grades or sexual harassment in the office. Things that have a clear-cut right/wrong dynamic. If women in porn don't mind being in porn, that's all that matters. Again. Advice. Not dictation.
sally4sara Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 btw Jersey - Dictate was a strange choice of words in your last reply to me. I offered advice (unsolicited I'll grant you) which you can take or leave but I assure you that I have no intention of "dictating" how you talk. Don't take it personally. I said I agreed with her, tho appearantly made a mistake in saying she is "unwaveringly anti-porn". Somehow this is an insult and despite the times she was glad to have me provide links in threads that support her views, I am "dogmatic". Who knows? Can't trust men and doesn't get along with women. I think porn is the least of her worries.... We made a drinking game out of this thread last night. Much like the "Weapons of mass destruction" for presidential speeches, "men are visual" worked just as well.
tanbark813 Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 We made a drinking game out of this thread last night. Much like the "Weapons of mass destruction" for presidential speeches, "men are visual" worked just as well. I'm surprised you're not in bed nursing a hangover.
clv0116 Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 Clv, I don't even need to say anything here because your comments speak for themselves. Why go to such great lengths to be so elusive if you didn't fear that the next potentail woman wouldn't want to date you if you didn't invest more serious energy into it. You can answer the way you said above. But why not just say "I am seeing a few people currently, as are they". Just as simple and frankly, more honest and to the point. It's not elusive, it's truthful and it establishes boundaries. I may or may not be seeing other people but I'm not in an exclusive relationship at the moment. It says precisely what I mean, completely and honestly. That's the opposite of elusive.
sally4sara Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 I'm surprised you're not in bed nursing a hangover. Oh, my head is def hurting. I notice my posting has devolved to a little sharper level of snark than usual. I'll apologize later. Now if I could only figure out how I *roke my *ee *utton during the games last night......not *eing a*le to use it makes it hard to post even with a good sized voca*ulary!
Author Jersey Shortie Posted July 9, 2009 Author Posted July 9, 2009 If you don't like porn and don't like strip clubs, then fine. Just date guys who share your opinions. I'm not sure why you're so insistant that everyone think what you think. It's an effort in vain anyway. I try to provide view points that might make other's pause. And admit it or not, it's openned up alot of interesting conversation. What I don't get Tanbark is if you don't like the debate and conversation, why get involved at all in the first place by coming in and making personal assertions about who you think I am? This is what discussion is about. That is pretty much what this message board is. You are infact doing the same thing above, that I have been doing with this subject. Sharing your viewpoint, reasoning your viewpoint. However, instead of discussing the subject, you are choosing to make personal assertions that you can't even really define as truth. And I don't buy the "trying to make the world a better place" argument. You do know there are starving children, wars going on, planets going up in smoke, etc. You'd be better served focusing your efforts there. Or if it's about women's rights....maybe get into issues like pay grades or sexual harassment in the office. Things that have a clear-cut right/wrong dynamic. If women in porn don't mind being in porn, that's all that matters. What is there to buy into? You asked, I answered in a honest response about what is true for me. How do you know I don't do other community service projects to help make the world better? How do you know I don't donate my time and money to other causes? Guess what, I do. Just because there are starving children and wars going on doesn't mean there aren't other issues to address as well. When you face an issue in your life do you really say "oh well, let me go feed the children"? It's weak to try and diverte a subject with other world issues. One has nothing to do with the other. To me, porn has a clear cut and wrong dynamic. And agreement to be in porn doesn't mean that everything is roses and sunflowers. Don't take it personally. I said I agreed with her, tho appearantly made a mistake in saying she is "unwaveringly anti-porn". Somehow this is an insult and despite the times she was glad to have me provide links in threads that support her views, I am "dogmatic". Come on Sally. You are dogmatic. Not just with me. I agree with many things you say Sally, believe it or not. And then there are times I hugley disagree with you. You are another poster that easily expresses your agreement and disagreement with any poster you choose, sometimes at the same time. I would think you of all people would be able to understand this. It's not a matter of me being *happy* you provided links. You provided links. That's great. But does that mean I have to agree with every thing you say?? Who knows? Can't trust men and doesn't get along with women. I think porn is the least of her worries.... Sorry but you have a difficult time getting along with certain posters yourself at times. I get along fine with women. There are many women here that have agreed with me and said as much. It's not elusive, it's truthful and it establishes boundaries. I may or may not be seeing other people but I'm not in an exclusive relationship at the moment. It says precisely what I mean, completely and honestly. That's the opposite of elusive. It's elusive. If you are seeing other women, you should just say as much without playing the kind of semantic games you are.
sally4sara Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 I try to provide view points that might make other's pause. You try to provide A view point that keeps missing the mark at getting anyone to pause on the same old topic. To the point where any of the men who could prove your views correct, avoid your porn threads entirely. Notice most of the male posters in THIS thread say they don't use porn much? Then you get in a tiff when I say you're unwaveringly anti-porn. As far as insults go, I'm sure I could come up with something more scathing than that! Still, I found it weird; I asked you once of a suggestion for porn you are not so offended over and you seemed to think I was asking something ridiculous due to how ANTI-PORN you are. Come on Sally. You are dogmatic. Not just with me. I agree with many things you say Sally, believe it or not. And then there are times I hugley disagree with you. You are another poster that easily expresses your agreement and disagreement with any poster you choose, sometimes at the same time. I would think you of all people would be able to understand this. It's not a matter of me being *happy* you provided links. You provided links. That's great. But does that mean I have to agree with every thing you say?? You don't have to agree with anything. You should however, learn the definitions of the insults you choose prior to using them. If I can and do support my arguments with facts, I don't really qualify for dogmatic. Perhaps you have perceived the word dogmatic to mean persistent? That is not what the word means. dog·mat·ic 1. Relating to, characteristic of, or resulting from dogma. 2. Characterized by an authoritative assertion of unproved or unprovable principles. Sorry but you have a difficult time getting along with certain posters yourself at times. I get along fine with women. There are many women here that have agreed with me and said as much. I have said I agree with you on some point and yes I've seen some women say they agree with you on some points... You tend to take them the wrong way and then you thank them with insults. Perhaps you should work on this instead or first, rather than working on making others feel low for their preferences.
tanbark813 Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 What I don't get Tanbark is if you don't like the debate and conversation, why get involved at all in the first place by coming in and making personal assertions about who you think I am? Initially I responded to other posters in this thread. I didn't start making assertions about who I think you are until you claimed I did everything in my power to avoid a question, which I didn't. People answer your questions left and right but if their answers don't line up with what you believe then you claim they avoided them.
RunawayTrain Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 "That is great advice if I lived in a 30 minute sitcom where there is conflict then resolution. i'd love to find a guy that didn't view porn but there are more men that do then don't." Did you personally take a survey of men and porn ? Did you write a college thesis ? If not I think you should change your statement to there are more men that do then don't that I have dated. You might not realize it but you are generalizing in a big way.
Thaddeus Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 No point in engaging our friend JS. She's right, everyone who disagrees with her is wrong. Kinda reminds me of George "Mission Accomplished" Bush. Dissenting opinions are unwelcome. Feel free to have the last word, JS. Call it "closure" if you wish. You know you want to.
You'reasian Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 As far as romance novels, I never agreed that they were a good comparison either. 99% of women don't masturbate to a romance novel. 99% of romance novels don't involve degrading and humilating the man while alot of porn, is just about that. (Yes, even if the woman agrees to it doesn't mean it's not devaluing her or women in general. And if you are honest with yourself, you know this is true for the simple fact that men would never want anyone they *really* care about (but who knows what that means anymore) to be in a porn). Romance novels can better be compared to men's love for video games. Video games often can have sexual and testoserone fueled ego pumping behavior. Just as romance novels can have female fueled behavior. I don't think most men are sad enough to masturbate to video games either. Now see that I agree with and that is how many women feel as well. But it often does seem like men do live in a world of secrecy and suppression when they are sitting alone in their rooms infront of their computer with a whole world of fantasy catering to them. And alot of men like it that way. At least maybe you can understand the other side of it after knowing for yourself that you would want your girlfriend to be invovled with *you* instead of looking for outside sources. Which is basically what you said. Often, men look for so many outside sources, it just gets disheartening as a woman. You could always go for an attractive, intelligent, fun, active, reciprocating kinda guy....but if that doesn't make you happy, just be happy with what you like - guys who like alot of video games and computers. They're probably smart guys, so you can't go wrong.
samspade Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 If women were getting all this great attention 24/7 the second they stepped out of the house, there would be world peace by now.Nice thought, but I respectfully disagree. Then it goes back to the old excuse, your a man so it's okay for you to do anything that has to do with other women and sex. Self control need not apply here. At least your woman isn't out there seeking these things out from men, a man is making a choice to seek out other women though.You didn't say "anything." You were talking about men, at home, on their computers. So it's not an "anything goes" argument at all. And I don't know whether my woman is seeking out attention from other men or not; I'm not interested in policing her. Secondly, a woman doesn't ask other men for compliments or stares. A man does go out of his way to look at other women. While it might make a woman feel good, she doesn't need it, ask for it or seek it out.That doesn't change the fact that she's getting her ego boosted every day by these occurrences. And I respectfully disagree with you that a woman isn't asking for it. Verbally, maybe not, but females are very adept at getting attention from males, in all sorts of ways, consciously and subconsciously. I don't believe in the babe-in-the-woods argument. Now, not all the attention she gets will be desirable, but women sift through and separate the wheat from the chaff. And there are alot of women out there that rather be single then have to deal with a guy that is dependent on porn so much to the extent that he needs it rather consistanly through out his life and does it it behind her back the second she has it turned.Good! I salute their independence. I don't care either way what other women would rather do. There is a woman in my spa that is from England. She says American men are so boring. Why? Because they don't flirt, they aren't playful, they aren't over flowing women with compliments.I agree with her that a lot of American men ARE boring. And while I think compliments should be sparing and authentic (not over-flowing), I think she's right: A lot of American men can't be flirty, be playful, or even stand up and be men. They'd rather be little boys. But I believe standing up and being a man means being true to your wants and needs, NOT kowtowing to what a woman, or society, deems acceptable (within moral and legal boundaries). As a man, if you truly enjoy strip clubs, you will live a much freer and fuller life pursuing that enjoyment than you would giving them up. There are plenty of women out there, and you're bound to meet one who honestly enjoys them too (I know, I did). And I don't buy that that makes these women low quality or whorish or compromising or whatever. The analogy you brought up, which is sort of an emotional cuckold fantasy, would probably be acceptable to more men than you think...behind closed doors. There are guys out there who like seeing their wives get f***ed by other men, after all. The key is finding someone with whom you are sexually compatible, and of course establishing boundaries between the two of you.
clv0116 Posted July 9, 2009 Posted July 9, 2009 It's elusive. If you are seeing other women, you should just say as much without playing the kind of semantic games you are. It's precise. Whether or not I'm seeing anyone else at the moment, or will be seeing anyone else soon, or will be terminating an existing relationship soon, or haven't made my mind up, it covers all that precisely and succinctly.
SarahRose Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 Great thread! I notice the guys here say they hardy look at porn but then you go to another thread where a woman says how much she hates porn and lots of guys chime in saying to deal with it that ALL men look and whack to porn. Guys if you went to your wife's/gf's pc and found thousands of pics of sexy hot hung naked men you mean to tell me you wouldn't care? If you found her 12" super duper vibrator hidden in a drawer or if she whipped it out during sex, you wouldn't be the least bit insecure about it?
Woggle Posted July 15, 2009 Posted July 15, 2009 Great thread! I notice the guys here say they hardy look at porn but then you go to another thread where a woman says how much she hates porn and lots of guys chime in saying to deal with it that ALL men look and whack to porn. Guys if you went to your wife's/gf's pc and found thousands of pics of sexy hot hung naked men you mean to tell me you wouldn't care? If you found her 12" super duper vibrator hidden in a drawer or if she whipped it out during sex, you wouldn't be the least bit insecure about it? My wife has a vibrator and I truly don't mind at all.I don't care if she looks at other men because I know she will never touch.
sxyNYCcpl Posted July 16, 2009 Posted July 16, 2009 Guys if you went to your wife's/gf's pc and found thousands of pics of sexy hot hung naked men you mean to tell me you wouldn't care? I'm telling you I wouldn't care. I guarantee you there is a lot of porn on my wife's computer, and it doesn't bother me in the least. I have nothing to fear from pictures. If you found her 12" super duper vibrator hidden in a drawer or if she whipped it out during sex, you wouldn't be the least bit insecure about it? Well, considering we usually shop for her toys together, I'm pretty sure I know about all of them, but I would not be offended or insecure if it turns out I'm wrong. She routinely burns out 2-3 a year or so. Like the aforementioned pictures, I have nothing to fear from vibrating inanimate objects.
SarahRose Posted July 17, 2009 Posted July 17, 2009 I'm telling you I wouldn't care. I guarantee you there is a lot of porn on my wife's computer, and it doesn't bother me in the least. I have nothing to fear from pictures. Well, considering we usually shop for her toys together, I'm pretty sure I know about all of them, but I would not be offended or insecure if it turns out I'm wrong. She routinely burns out 2-3 a year or so. Like the aforementioned pictures, I have nothing to fear from vibrating inanimate objects. The reason you dont care is because she is still meeting your needs sexually. If it came out that she was looking at the naked men daily and getting off but only having sex with you a couple times a month, would you still not care?
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