Jersey Shortie Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 This one is predominately for the guys but of course, female opinions are also encouraged. Guys, if you think that strip clubs and porn are acceptable ways to heighten your desire whether alone or in gearing up for sex with your partner, would you in return be okay with your woman having some verbal or even emotional communication with other men to also be used as tools to gear her up for sex? I think we can all agree that there are certain things that can turn women on and certain things that can turn men on. Here is my line of thought. We always say "men are visual". And yes, while I agree men are visual, I disagree with it being a justified excuse for certain behavior. If men are "visual", women are more described as being "emotional" or even the more "verbal" gender. That being the case, if it's okay for men to receive visual pleasure from other women, real or in images; is it okay for women to received verbal and emotional pleasure from other men? How many men are okay with their women receiving verbal and emotional (non-sexual even for the sake or argument) pleasure from other men, either real or in pre-recorded style? As long as they come home to you, their man. While I understand that men are perfectly okay with women being turned on in the ways that a man himself is, are men okay with women being turned on in the ways that is more true to being a female? I guess there are two questions here to be answered bolded.
Thaddeus Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 ...would you in return be okay with your woman having some verbal or even emotional communication with other men to also be used as tools to gear her up for sex? See, now here's another false assumption. Men do not go to a strip club to "gear up" for sex. I used to go to clubs like that in my younger days, though I haven't been now in a number of years. And at no time - never, not once - did I go with the purpose of "gearing up" for sex. If you go to a strip club, you might be somewhat surprised at what you see. Sure, there'll be a few men up on "pervert's row" right next to the stage, but generally the fellows will be chatting amongst themselves over a beer or two, playing pool, watching baseball on the big-screen TV and, oh, by the way, there's a naked woman dancing on stage. The dancer is just part of the entertainment, part of the atmosphere. So the parallel you're drawing between a visual connection for a man to "gear up" for sex and an emotional connection for a woman to "gear up" for sex is a false parallel. By the way, women fantasize about men other than their husbands/boyfriends all the time. The romance novel and movie industry thrives on it.
sxyNYCcpl Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 So long as it's not something being done in secret, I would have no problem with that whatsoever.
Author Jersey Shortie Posted July 7, 2009 Author Posted July 7, 2009 I believe you wouldn't Sxy. You are very different from most men. Sure, there'll be a few men up on "pervert's row" right next to the stage, but generally the fellows will be chatting amongst themselves over a beer or two, playing pool, watching baseball on the big-screen TV and, oh, by the way, there's a naked woman dancing on stage. The dancer is just part of the entertainment, part of the atmosphere. So the parallel you're drawing between a visual connection for a man to "gear up" for sex and an emotional connection for a woman to "gear up" for sex is a false parallel. By the way, women fantasize about men other than their husbands/boyfriends all the time. The romance novel and movie industry thrives on it. Okay, either way. Are you okay with your woman being "entertained" by other men either verbally or emotionally? I think you are arguing semantics here. Men don't go to strip clubs for beer, baseball and buddy time first. Because there are so many other places you can do those things minus the naked woman. The reason you go to a strip club is to see naked women, plus, your buddies will be there. In this case, order matters. And alot of guys themselves have infact said that they have been so turned on that they have gone home to have sex with their partners. What shouldn't turn a man on about a pretty woman dancing around? Lastly, men have their own hollywood movies that cater to their desires. As for romance novels, lets not make this the same old discussion. Are you or are you not okay with a woman being turned on in the way a woman can be turned on that is seperate from a man? If a woman just uses other men for her verbal and emotional pleasure but comes home to her gu yat the end of the day, is that alright?
Stockalone Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 If men are "visual", women are more described as being "emotional" or even the more "verbal" gender. That being the case, if it's okay for men to receive visual pleasure from other women, real or in images; is it okay for women to received verbal and emotional pleasure from other men? While I understand that men are perfectly okay with women being turned on in the ways that a man himself is, are men okay with women being turned on in the ways that is more true to being a female? That depends on what receiving "verbal and emotional pleasure from other men" means. Could you give an example?
Dexter Morgan Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 This one is predominately for the guys but of course, female opinions are also encouraged. Guys, if you think that strip clubs and porn are acceptable ways to heighten your desire whether alone or in gearing up for sex with your partner, would you in return be okay with your woman having some verbal or even emotional communication with other men to also be used as tools to gear her up for sex? No, I wouldn't be ok with it. but then again, I don't go to strip clubs and don't find it appropriate in the way of respect for a committed partner. I had a gf long ago that knew I was uncomfortable that she wanted to go to an all male strip "revue". Told her if I was good enough, why does she need to see other men? So she strolls in late after that night horny as hell....tried to get me to have sex (I was already in bed). I told her I wasn't interested in sex with someone that was horny because of other men and that if it was the kind of man she wanted, good luck in getting one.
Bejita463 Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 If men are "visual", women are more described as being "emotional" or even the more "verbal" gender. That being the case, if it's okay for men to receive visual pleasure from other women, real or in images; is it okay for women to received verbal and emotional pleasure from other men? Uh, what? Before I even comment I would like to point out I'm not big on porn or strip clubs, and have little to no interest in either. Are you seriously trying to compare loading up a video of a couple having sex to calling someone up and investing enough attention to another human on a personal level so as to arrive at a level in which emotional pleasure could be attained? That is a horrible parallel. Given the choice of that, or a dude watching porn, would you seriously choose that? By your own logic, it should be less of a interest for a guy to do so, being primarily visual and all.
Author Jersey Shortie Posted July 7, 2009 Author Posted July 7, 2009 That depends on what receiving "verbal and emotional pleasure from other men" means. Could you give an example? Well, what do you think would be acceptable forms of receiving verbal or emotional pleasure from other men? I completely disagree with the arguemnt that romance novels are akin to the same thing as pornos. Some people think they are. For the sake of argument, lets say romance novels are akin to pornos. So if romance novels are to pornos what a man's strip club is to a woman's verbal or emotional exchange to another man is, is there any harm or not if she is coming home to *her* man. the argument seems to be is that if at the end of the day, as long as you get yours from your partner, no matter who is used to spark it, everything is okay and you should be thankful for it. Does that line of thinking apply to the different ways women are turned on that men aren't? Are you seriously trying to compare loading up a video of a couple having sex to calling someone up and investing enough attention to another human on a personal level so as to arrive at a level in which emotional pleasure could be attained? That is a horrible parallel. Given the choice of that, or a dude watching porn, would you seriously choose that? By your own logic, it should be less of a interest for a guy to do so, being primarily visual and all. What I am comparing is the ways men and women can be turned on that is true to their gender. I think men are perfectly willing to accept women being turned on in ways that are more true to how men turned on but less accepting of having women be turned on in ways that are more true to how women are turned on. If a woman is able to get verbal or light emotional pleasure with no strings attached form other men, just like men are able to get light interaction and visual pleasure fro ma stripper, what is the harm? How many men would truly be okay with this?
Bejita463 Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 What I am comparing is the ways men and women can be turned on that is true to their gender. I think men are perfectly willing to accept women being turned on in ways that are more true to how men turned on but less accepting of having women be turned on in ways that are more true to how women are turned on. If a woman is able to get verbal or light emotional pleasure with no strings attached form other men, just like men are able to get light interaction and visual pleasure fro ma stripper, what is the harm? How many men would truly be okay with this? So then it would be okay for a man to establish that same harmless connection, since as a visual creature it would ultimately mean LESS for him than porn anyway, right? You've said things I agree with on the topic in the past, and you've come up with good situations to form comparison, but this isn't one of them imo. The question of whether or not a guy that is okay with seeing strippers would be okay with his girl BEING a stripper was much, much better.
Author Jersey Shortie Posted July 7, 2009 Author Posted July 7, 2009 So then it would be okay for a man to establish that same harmless connection, since as a visual creature it would ultimately mean LESS for him than porn anyway, right? You've said things I agree with on the topic in the past, and you've come up with good situations to form comparison, but this isn't one of them imo. The question of whether or not a guy that is okay with seeing strippers would be okay with his girl BEING a stripper was much, much better. Alot of men already say that it's okay for them to establish "harmless" "connections" with strippers, even some think its okay to get lap dances "once-in-awhile". Why is it not okay for women to cater to their more female traits for verbal or emotional interaction if its okay for men to cater to their visual one?
Bejita463 Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Alot of men already say that it's okay for them to establish "harmless" "connections" with strippers, even some think its okay to get lap dances "once-in-awhile". Why is it not okay for women to cater to their more female traits for verbal or emotional interaction if its okay for men to cater to their visual one? A lot of people in general are scum. That isn't male specific. If you are talking about stripper vs phone call (incorporating real people into the mix for both parties) then that probably is equal-opportunity dysfunction, yes. I personally would not be okay with either one of those scenarios, but if a guy is getting lap dances at a strip club, I doubt many will argue against that being labeled as cheating. Big difference between looking and touching, and big difference between looking and flirting as well. There is no comparison between involving a real person into the equation, and looking at a magazine though. My 2c.
39388 Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 If men are "visual", women are more described as being "emotional" or even the more "verbal" gender. That being the case, if it's okay for men to receive visual pleasure from other women, real or in images; is it okay for women to received verbal and emotional pleasure from other men? No, neither is ok. What I see is someone of one sex doing something bad and someone of the other sex uses it as an excuse so they can misbehave too. Then the cycle repeats and before long much of the population thinks it is ok.
You'reasian Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 I very rarely go to strip clubs. Secondly, I don't need to gear up for sex. Lastly, I understand that you have a big issue about porn. It seems like your issue is more of a social/moral one, than an issue with a current partner, correct? Men are going to look at porn; women too. The best you can do as choose not do so and if its an issue with a specific partner, choose one that does not look at porn or go to strip clubs.
GorillaTheater Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Secondly' date=' I don't need to gear up for sex.[/quote'] I've already stated my views on strip clubs, and was going to try to stay away from Jersey's thread, but this hit home with me. For about a year, some half-dozen years ago, I was on anti-depressant meds. It had the predictable effect on my libido. My wife subtly indicated dissatisfaction with our sex life and, wanting to satisfy her, I'd look at porn in an attempt to get aroused more often. I did what I though best at the time. Any attempt to shame me for it will be met with silence. Or a personal attack. One of the two.
Author Jersey Shortie Posted July 7, 2009 Author Posted July 7, 2009 A lot of people in general are scum. That isn't male specific. I completely agree. I personally would not be okay with either one of those scenarios, but if a guy is getting lap dances at a strip club, I doubt many will argue against that being labeled as cheating. Big difference between looking and touching, and big difference between looking and flirting as well. Well, yes that is why I brought up the comparison I did. Men say they don't think it's cheating if the yget lap dances from other women. But I think men would have a problem if their women was seeking out other forms of entertainment from other real men in the ways that women are more turned on by. And what exactly is the difference between looking and touching or looking and flirting if they produce the same results? There is no comparison between involving a real person into the equation, and looking at a magazine though. My 2c. But if men are "visual" and women are "verbal", and if men are allowed to pander to their desires, then women should as well. Whether thats visual, verbal or other.
RunawayTrain Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 How you can compare the two is beyond me. Totally inaccurate as well as ridiculous. I don't think its ok for men to go to strip clubs when in a commited relationship, that is not right. You shouldn't need an outside attraction to gear up for sex unless you are 85 years old and viagra isn't cutting it.
Stockalone Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Well, what do you think would be acceptable forms of receiving verbal or emotional pleasure from other men? I asked because I honestly don't know what interaction with a stranger results in the kind of verbal and/or emotional pleasure that makes a woman want to ravish her SO while thinking of said stranger. Do random, unpersonal compliments do the trick or doesn't it rather have to have a very personal element to it? Something that requires an intimate knowledge about the woman in question? Does it mean getting a compliment from a stranger on the street, telling you how smart you are? How pretty you are? That already happens to women, and men accept that. Also, IME, it does matter quite a bit how attractive the guy is who compliments the woman in order for the compliment to have a positive effect. Or would it be a CD, or even a computer program (customizable to add your own name in the dialogue, etc,) where a narrator with a sultry voice talks to a woman and tells her how pretty she is, how smart she is, how much he desires her? What he would do to her, how he would please her? Would that do the trick? That wouldn't bother me. As long as that it mass-produced, and pre-recorded. If the voice is the next-door neighbour or a colleague from work or an acquaintance/friend of the woman, then it becomes cheating and it would be a dealbreaker. There are so many possibilities, hence it matters a great deal what exactly "verbal and emotional pleasure from other men" means. At what point does the woman get that pleasure, through random compliments from strangers or by having repeated, rather intimate contact with a person she knows (which would amount to an affair)? I completely disagree with the arguemnt that romance novels are akin to the same thing as pornos. Some people think they are. For the sake of argument, lets say romance novels are akin to pornos. So if romance novels are to pornos what a man's strip club is to a woman's verbal or emotional exchange to another man is, is there any harm or not if she is coming home to *her* man. the argument seems to be is that if at the end of the day, as long as you get yours from your partner, no matter who is used to spark it, everything is okay and you should be thankful for it. Does that line of thinking apply to the different ways women are turned on that men aren't? I would be totally pissed at my SO if she would fantasize about someone else while having sex with me. I'd dump her a**, but it is highly unlikely that she would tell me. I find the concept "but she is going home with you, that is all that matters" to be insane. But it seems to work for a lot of people.
Bejita463 Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Well, yes that is why I brought up the comparison I did. Men say they don't think it's cheating if they get lap dances from other women. I think the kind of men who would do such a thing are likely cheaters to begin with, and just use that as a convenient excuse to do part of that cheating out in the open. And what exactly is the difference between looking and touching or looking and flirting if they produce the same results? In this particular context I don't think there is any significant ethical difference. Some flirting (gender neutral) I can recognize as harmless, but flirting with someone in that situation is not harmless. But if men are "visual" and women are "verbal", and if men are allowed to pander to their desires, then women should as well. Whether thats visual, verbal or other. What I was trying to say is if porn is trivial to a woman because she is more verbal, than a phone call would be trivial to a man because he is more visual. The part that makes it a bad parallel is that the phone thing is completely unacceptable for both genders. That point was not taking lap dances, and flirting into account though. Flirting with a stripper in person is worse than a phone call would be, in nearly any context.
sally4sara Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 I think Jersey is dead on the nose with her comparison. Her views and my views do not always match up, but her line of questioning in this thread is sound. Men - visually aroused Viewing porn on a screen or Visiting a strip club and perhaps, getting a table dance (lap dance lite) or a lap dance. Hot and bothered, he goes home to his regular partner to bust a nut. All good - right? If she takes issue, most men on here will tell her she is being controlling and insecure. Whats the big deal, he came home to you didn't he? Women - verbally and/or emotionally aroused Reading a Lady Chatterly or some on-line erotic story site or Getting dressed and primped to go to a meat market dance club where guys will compliment her, perhaps dance close on the dance floor, maybe he will tell her what he would do to her if she went home with him while she gets a big grin on her face and blushes. Any phone numbers guys gave her she tosses in the trash on her way out to hail a cab. Hot and bothered, she goes home to her regular partner and rides him till she gets off. All Jersey is asking is if it would be unacceptable to any guys reading, if their GF/wife came home to them with her blood up over her interactions with random guys. She didn't go home with them - so what's the big deal?
Author Jersey Shortie Posted July 7, 2009 Author Posted July 7, 2009 *sigh* Well, I guess I was asking too much to get direct answers to the questions I posed.
sally4sara Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 *sigh* Well, I guess I was asking too much to get direct answers to the questions I posed. You would be better off posting as someone else as though you went out as a girl and your BF/husband was upset that you came home hot and bothered after a night of getting hit on and spun around the dance floor. They are not going to answer to this thread because they already know what the judge and jury (you and other women) will say if they claim it is wrong for women to do what is similar to guys going to strip clubs. You are known on here as being unwaveringly anti porn/strip clubs. AND, it doesn't matter how many guys might say they'd wouldn't be cool with it, there will always be some that would be cool with it. It is a matter of opinion with no real right or wrong answer. It boils down the same way for them as it boils down for you and your views about porn and strip clubs. Find a partner who shares your views.
tanbark813 Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Men - visually aroused Visiting a strip club and perhaps, getting a table dance (lap dance lite) or a lap dance. Hot and bothered, he goes home to his regular partner to bust a nut. All good - right? If she takes issue, most men on here will tell her she is being controlling and insecure. Whats the big deal, he came home to you didn't he? Women - verbally and/or emotionally aroused Getting dressed and primped to go to a meat market dance club where guys will compliment her, perhaps dance close on the dance floor, maybe he will tell her what he would do to her if she went home with him while she gets a big grin on her face and blushes. Any phone numbers guys gave her she tosses in the trash on her way out to hail a cab. Hot and bothered, she goes home to her regular partner and rides him till she gets off. These aren't the same. In the first scenario, the man is paying the stripper. She's doing a job and not genuinely interested in the guy. In the second scenario, the woman isn't paying the guy she's dancing and he is genuinely interested, not doing a job. Besides, the equivalent of a woman going to a club and getting turned on by other guys would just be a man going to a club and getting turned on by other girls. If you want to equate the visual/verbal, a better analogy would be: Men - Go to a strip club. Women - Call a phone sex line. In each instance the person is spending money and interacting with someone doing a job, a job for which they're paying.
tanbark813 Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Find a partner who shares your views. This is the only real, meaningful advice/conclusion that ever comes of these threads.
Author Jersey Shortie Posted July 7, 2009 Author Posted July 7, 2009 They are not going to answer to this thread because they already know what the judge and jury (you and other women) will say if they claim it is wrong for women to do what is similar to guys going to strip clubs. . I think the real truth is that alot of guys recognize the hypocritcal view points they have when it comes to them indulging in their sexuality and not really wanting women to indulge theirs unless it is directly related to his benefit. You are known on here as being unwaveringly anti porn/strip clubs. Just as you are known for your dogmatic attacks. AND, it doesn't matter how many guys might say they'd wouldn't be cool with it, there will always be some that would be cool with it. It is a matter of opinion with no real right or wrong answer. It boils down the same way for them as it boils down for you and your views about porn and strip clubs You pretty much summed up the whole board. Guess we can close up shop and head out.
Recommended Posts