silktricks Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Some call it hysterical bonding, some call it reclaiming, and in therapy, my WS and I have both learned it is a good thing, in that its intensity and duration is a great indicator for how much love still exists between the couple. I never heard it called reclaiming before. I like that!! Sex 3 and 4 times a day was great, and I truly enjoyed it (and I'm quite sure my hubby did, too!!) I believe that affairs that are based on the WS's idea that they are no longer loved, when the BS says they want to attempt to forgive them and fix the marriage - they are reclaiming the BS just as much as the BS is reclaiming them.... Yeah! I like that term. I never liked the term hysterical bonding much - it's just the only name I had for it!
OFGnomore Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 I'm 5+ years post affair. Sometimes I post here a lot, sometimes not at all... The hysterical bonding part is long past for us, but we've always had a very active sex life. --- and as you say, the idea that affairs are all about sex is simply not accurate - affairs are about unmet needs. When the unmet need is sex - then the affair is about sex. QUOTE] You seem wise SilkTricks. And same with me, there was NO issue with the sex with H. I'd have to say I'm a rarer OW who stepped out and had "bad sex". Unless anyone else out there can attest to this phenonema. ((HUGS)) To oversimplify it came down to really poor communciation between me and H. And that's something we're still working through. I'm always a little suspect of these "better than ever posts" so close to a disclosure but admittedly we all have to find our own path to healing.
MistyK Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Ummm...wow, thanks guys for all of those lovely replies. I truly wasn't trying to be snarky in my OP, although upon reading it I guess it can be construed that way. You're right on many levels. It was therapeutic for me to write that because in my more lucid moments (ha! are there any??!) that's the way I feel. I do see that we can grow from this. And, hey, even though I did just find out two weeks ago, don't think the anger hasn't set in. It's there definitely. DEFINITELY. In fact, anger seems too nice a word for it...LOL You're also right in that he did go to hotels with her (of course, the repeated denials, etc) and to her home. BTW, she is married, too and met her for lunch trysts ,early morning rendevous, and after work quickies. More of the trickle truth came out last night, thanks in part to your posts...which I did enjoy reading even if they were all pitying me or angry at me. I truly don't have any anger with the OW. I mean, I don't want to go be her friend or anything, but she's not the one I have the beef with. She has no committment to me, she doesn't know me from Adam....so really none of my feelings are directed at her. Before you all think I am a naive (aren't we all in the beginning?) and doting wife who will blindly trust him again, I can tell you I won't. That doesn't mean that at some point we can't be stronger. In some ways, I already think we are...but I won't blindly trust him again. Innocence is gone. I'm hearing all of the usual apologies, he's practically my servant/slave right now, etc. I do hope some good comes from this...and I can kind of see that possibility exists IF we let this make it stronger. The ball is in my court, he keeps telling me, he'll spend the rest of his life trying to make this up to me, he hates himself for allowing this to go on, etc. You know the drill... I'm glad you got some therapeutic value out of writing it. I'm am glad to hear there was no snarkiness intended. I know it's hard if not impossible for you to see right now, but it's very likely that your H strung along, lied to, and badly hurt the OW as well. Hence, the "passionate replies" of some OW. It's also very likely that at some point in the near future, he will try to deflect responsibility and blame her for the whole thing (she pursued me, I tried to end it but she kept coming after me, blah blah blah). It will be easy to get caught up in his lies and direct your anger at the OW. Likewise, it is an unfortunate tendency for the OW's to get caught up in all the trash MM tend to talk on their wives and so sometimes OW get all bent out of shape at a BS they don't even know. Either way, both the OW and the BS are well served to keep their eye on their common problem, the wayward spouse.
silktricks Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 She wasn't looking for support by posting in the OW/OM forum. That much ought to be crystal clear. {snip} Lord knows the woman needs some support, and bless all you who can turn the other cheek and provide it when it really looked like all she was looking to do is pick a fight. I'd agree the OW forum was probably not great for posting what she posted - but possibly I'm more willing to give her the benefit of the doubt (coming from a different spot) then you are. I don't really believe she was looking to pick a fight. I think she really was attempting to show that she didn't blame the OW for what happened.... but at the same time showing that she was glad that she and her husband were reconnecting. (Of course, I could be wrong..... )
Author aeh Posted July 7, 2009 Author Posted July 7, 2009 Yes, that is interesting. My H has also said that he has been blown away by my feelings. He never knew/thought I loved him that much. He thought I would be angry, but didn't expect to see the amount of devastation and hurt. He has repeatedly used the term "blown away". He SAYS it was just sexual with her, we were having sex maybe once every two weeks (!!!), he did tell her he loved her (she always said it first, he said it back to her bc he wanted the sex and knew she had deeper feelings for him). He has always acted completely and totally in love with me (everyone comments on it, many friends and family members describe him as the perfect husband). So in some ways with the HB, I can see that...I do feel like he is "reclaiming" me as much as I am "reclaiming" him. The roller coaster ride continues. He brought home bills yesterday to show me, is waiting for his mobile bill to come to prove he hasn't talked to her (of course, I know he could still be talking to her on the office phone). Has said he will not answer her calls if he sees its her and will let me listen to any phone message she leaves. Offered to let me talk to her. I never asked him to break contact with her. He did it willingly as soon as the discovery was made. Has commented he is surprised that she hasn't called though.
Dexter Morgan Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 But the affair has definitely made me more aware of what I have and what I don't want to lose. but what you have is.......a cheater
Author aeh Posted July 7, 2009 Author Posted July 7, 2009 Let me clarify, it was once every two weeks that he and I were having sex. It was maybe that way for a year. Twice a week (or so he says) that he and OW were having sex.
whichwayisup Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Does her husband know of the affair? If not, he should be told - Plus by doing that it will definately end the A, the chances of her trying to call your husband will be alot less if HER husband is watching her like you're watching your H.
bentnotbroken Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Does her husband know of the affair? If not, he should be told - Plus by doing that it will definately end the A, the chances of her trying to call your husband will be alot less if HER husband is watching her like you're watching your H. Yeah, what WWIU said.
Author aeh Posted July 7, 2009 Author Posted July 7, 2009 I would love to let her husband know, but let's just leave it that it could make things more difficult for us in the end relating to his job, if she got vindictive. And she doesn't work with him anymore. But, I agree, that would be good to tell him.
Author aeh Posted July 7, 2009 Author Posted July 7, 2009 Mistyk, I have no doubt that he was stringing her along, too, to get what he wanted. It sounds laughable to say, but my husband really isn't the "player" type...but that's how it certainly appears.
bentnotbroken Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Mistyk, I have no doubt that he was stringing her along, too, to get what he wanted. It sounds laughable to say, but my husband really isn't the "player" type...but that's how it certainly appears. It doesn't take a playa type to lie. Just a willing heart.
MistyK Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 My H has also said that he has been blown away by my feelings. He never knew/thought I loved him that much. He thought I would be angry, but didn't expect to see the amount of devastation and hurt. He has repeatedly used the term "blown away". Is this a way of blaming you for the A? Like - I had this affair because you didn;t show me that you loved me enough? Or is it possibily an attempt to justify himself - "I didn't think you'd see it as such a big deal"? He SAYS it was just sexual with her, we were having sex maybe once every two weeks (!!!), he did tell her he loved her (she always said it first, he said it back to her bc he wanted the sex and knew she had deeper feelings for him). He has always acted completely and totally in love with me (everyone comments on it, many friends and family members describe him as the perfect husband). So in some ways with the HB, I can see that...I do feel like he is "reclaiming" me as much as I am "reclaiming" him. Perhaps it was just sexual, for him, but he obviously knew she felt more, which makes it very cruel. This inability to feel guilt to her might make me wonder about his sincereity of guilt to you. It might also be worrisome that he can be so detached from sex - if he is capable of having "just sex", that might worry me for the reclaiming part of the sex you are having now. Forgive me here, I realize I may be totalling projecting.... The roller coaster ride continues. He brought home bills yesterday to show me, is waiting for his mobile bill to come to prove he hasn't talked to her (of course, I know he could still be talking to her on the office phone). Has said he will not answer her calls if he sees its her and will let me listen to any phone message she leaves. Offered to let me talk to her. I never asked him to break contact with her. He did it willingly as soon as the discovery was made. Has commented he is surprised that she hasn't called though. Is it possible that his "offer" to "let" you talk to her is because he knew you wouldn't take him up on it? Truly, it probably wouldn't prove much to you anyway - she's just as likely to lie. Maybe she hasn't called because she's been busted too? For what it's worth, as a former OW, I really appreciate your perspective.
OFGnomore Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Mistyk, I have no doubt that he was stringing her along, too, to get what he wanted. It sounds laughable to say, but my husband really isn't the "player" type...but that's how it certainly appears. This is how successful reconcilations start? Admitting to the person you've been lying to about how you lied to someone else. I dunno, I never told H how I lied to xMM to get what I wanted. H would think that's part of my character. Lying to everyone that is. I did tell H I made a mistake and I wanted to give him his freedom back after taking it from him when I made the unilateral choice to be unfaithful. I dunno, there's something about this story, especially the more she says about H's reactions that doesn't sit well with me. But what do I know, I'm no expert in these matters.
SueBee3490 Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Perhaps it was just sexual, for him, but he obviously knew she felt more, which makes it very cruel. This inability to feel guilt to her might make me wonder about his sincereity of guilt to you. It might also be worrisome that he can be so detached from sex - if he is capable of having "just sex", that might worry me for the reclaiming part of the sex you are having now. Forgive me here, I realize I may be totalling projecting.... Exactly Misty! I got that feeling too - just something so cruel about this. I know when my H told me it was "just sex" blah, blah, or he didn't really feel anything for the women because one "had the biggest butt he'd ever seen" or one was "looney", that he was saying those words to try to make me feel that I was somewhat "better" than these women. That they meant nothing to him - only sex. But in reality when I thought about it - I realized he was the butt in that he was playing on their emotions, etc. just to sleep with them and that is very cruel. I almost wished he'd said he had something nice to say about each of them then I would think he is human. I remember distinctly when I asked my H how he could go through with sex when he was engaged to be married to me, and he told me it was easy to be aroused by someone else. I knew then I would never be able to get over his cheating. So maybe you should be wary of his true intentions for you. Is the sex with you "just sex" to him or is it "making love" to him? I would wonder after what you've posted.
2sure Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 aeh - I have said this so often I dont feel like saying it anymore ...and because it rehashes a part of my life that is over ...but I think I have something important to offer you , so here goes: My H cheated on me and I caught him. I was devastated, heartbroken and physically ill. He was sorry. Enter MC. We reconnected and moved on. Mind you - thats a brief version of a long term thing - but those are the main things. Basically, nothing was done. Talk , Sex, Love. Nothing solid, no consequences. So. He did it again. I still cannot believe it and it hurts. But by that time I knew we had not done the work we were supposed to do the first time. I thought we were special, were immune , and would fix it in out own way. Right. There are particular steps and actions that must be taken. There are changes in your life that must be a permanent and comfortable thing. Having taken the drastic steps nearly three years ago now I can honestly tell you that we are both better people for having taken them. My H has looked inside and not liked it so changed to the man he wanted to be. I have drawn myself up and said I will not let myself or my marriage be victim to your faults. If there is a victim , it has to be him. Anyhoooo...you have certain steps to take. Dont do what I did. Dont skip them.
NOTSURE7 Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 aeh- you should read my posts to get a good perspective of what your husband is really like, one quick question, do you have kids? and how long was the A? so i will write to try and help you a bit here,i am a mm with 3 kids and a loving wife, i had an A with a married woman with 3 kids of her own, i too am not considered a player,i too am the loving husband who my wifes friends say you have the perfect husband, i too am a great dad and loving supporting husband, i too am the last person you would expect to ever be having an A but i too am a cheater.i carry on the perfect fassad but in reality i am not all of these things because i am giving myself to someone else.the only difference is my W dosent have any idea. secondly, your H told her he loved her, that raises a red flag for me, i dont beleive he just did that for the sex, i too told my ow i loved her and guess what i beleived that, i had an emotional connection to her as most men do, if it was just about sex he could have gone and paid for it or had a 1 night stand somewhere, this sounds deeper to me having experinced this all first hand, my opinion is that this wasnt just about sex and if that emotional connection is there as i beleive it is, be real careful when the dust settles that he is not right back there, what she offers is very powerful and addicting to him. Now, i am glad that he is telling you everything you want to hear and trying to make amends but thats what we do,we will tell anyone anything they want to hear, actions in this case will speak louder than words, dont be fooled by a cell phone bill that shows no calls or by the fact he is willing to let you talk to her, this can all be easily worked out and he can have alternate emails,cell phones etc, remember he was able to pull this off without a trace for a long time so he is very very capable. i have seen and done it all, as i said i havent had to face the music and i assume if i did i would probably be doing and saying all of the same exact things your H is saying, i am not saying to not give him the chance just please be careful and keep those eyes and ears open always.
Dexter Morgan Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 I would love to let her husband know, but let's just leave it that it could make things more difficult for us in the end relating to his job, if she got vindictive. so what? first, thats his problem. 2nd, you don't deny someone the knowledge they deserve to know that they are living with a cheating scumbag simply because of what you think might happen. And she doesn't work with him anymore. this being the case, what can she do?
Dexter Morgan Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Perhaps it was just sexual, for him, but he obviously knew she felt more, which makes it very cruel. cruel?? cruel to who? a married woman that should be faithful and not even entertain the idea of opening her legs to another man, much less someone elses husband? so its obviously the man's fault here and the MW is an innocent victim in it all? forget that fact that they are BOTH married and both decided to screw someone other than their spouse. they are both lousy spouses. it isn't just one of them. the only "cruelty" here is directed at aeh, and the MW's husband. If aeh's husband did string the MW along and did say things to coax her to sleeping with him...so what? It makes him a cheating jerk that is for sure. But SHE IS MARRIED TOO!!!! no amount of coaxing should get her to betray her husband. basically you have a man that is an ahole for betraying aeh....and a MW for betraying her husband....neither one of them is any more to blame than the other.
Mino Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 No it isn't always what happens after d-day. It seems like you are laughing at what happened to the BS in your situation. Is that true? Of coarse not NID, its not funny, My point was that they play the game both ways, he crys remorse with the bw, then he run back to ow and crys how much he misses her too. NID, I wrote this so BW knows he is not to be trusted, thats all
silktricks Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Of coarse not NID, its not funny, My point was that they play the game both ways, he crys remorse with the bw, then he run back to ow and crys how much he misses her too. NID, I wrote this so BW knows he is not to be trusted, thats all And, of course, not all do this, either.
SueBee3490 Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 cruel?? cruel to who? a married woman that should be faithful and not even entertain the idea of opening her legs to another man, much less someone elses husband? You're right Dexter - I totally missed the part where the woman he was seeing was married too. I thought she was single. So I guess it wasn't cruel after all - she was married and cheating and he was married and cheating. They both knew what they were getting into.
Author aeh Posted July 7, 2009 Author Posted July 7, 2009 Thanks Dexter for sticking up for me. Yes, they are both to blame. My WS and the MW. He is researching MC's for us to go to. I told him I am too angry right now to think about working on the "trust enhancing exercises" with him (after the further revelations about the hotel and going to her house--did I mention that--he had at first denied it, just as he did the hotel....after much pressing that came out, too) I did read Glass's book, Not Just Friends as well as After the Affair. I thought they hit a lot of things dead on. Boy, it evolves from minute to minute.
NOTSURE7 Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 can i ask how you found out? and do you think he wanted you to find out?... listen he is doin everything he can after get caught, but you are the only one who can decide if it is sincere.. i offer a unique perspective being that i am mm who is involved with a mw,the only difference is my W has not uncovered my A. just be careful with this one, we men are good at doing what we have to do to calm the waters but once the water is calm we will be right back up to our old tricks, he needs to fix himself or nothing will change, you can go to all the counseling you want but in truth the only one who can fix himself would be him, he can promise you the wrold but unless he changes that desire to cheat will always be there.
MistyK Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 You're right Dexter - I totally missed the part where the woman he was seeing was married too. I thought she was single. So I guess it wasn't cruel after all - she was married and cheating and he was married and cheating. They both knew what they were getting into. It's wrong either way. If she was single, one could argue the same point (that she knew what she was getting into and that it was wrong to be involved in an A). My point is simply that he knew that both his wife and apparently this OW felt "love" for him, and he abused it to the W's detriment, and by his own admission, also to the OW by supposedly "lying" about his affection for her to get in her pants. It's oppurtunistic. Notsure7 confirms this kind of mentality...men will do anything to have whatever they want, and for a while, this guy evidently wanted both. It's selfish and mean to everyone involved.
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