NoIDidn't Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 My friend was divorced by her first wedding anniversary, at 24, I didn't even know this was possible. It was hard to watch and accept, I'm glad she got through it, the breakup wasn't her fault. Yeah, my dad had his first marriage annulled before they had even been married for 10 months. He said she was cheating on him. Well, she did marry the guy that he said she cheated with the next month, so maybe he was right. And dad was over 24 when this happened. In fact, I think he was 27/28. Its all about the maturity level and their reasons for getting married, IMO.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted July 7, 2009 Author Posted July 7, 2009 I think its a maturity thing, not an age thing. Like James said about the divorce rate, if it was an age thing, surely second marriages wouldn't be divorcing at a HIGHER rate than first marriages. And based on the stats for third, fourth, and so on marriages, the rates only get worse. Maturity, not age. I know plenty of couples that got married in the same age range (myself included), and they are still going strong. Good point. I agree with the maturity thing as well, but I really think that the reason people get divorced-those so quickly-is because they have not had time or just have not found out each others weaknesses and faults yet, therefore cannot learn to live with them. You have to be able to accept your partner for who they are, good and bad, and be able to deal with them when they drive you nuts. IMO that's why the divorce rate is so high..people can't put up with each other.
Touche Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Good point. I agree with the maturity thing as well, but I really think that the reason people get divorced-those so quickly-is because they have not had time or just have not found out each others weaknesses and faults yet, therefore cannot learn to live with them. You have to be able to accept your partner for who they are, good and bad, and be able to deal with them when they drive you nuts. IMO that's why the divorce rate is so high..people can't put up with each other. A good marriage doesn't consist of people "putting up with each other." Just sayin'.
GorillaTheater Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 I think marrying young can put an extra strain on marriage. My wife and I were 19 and 21 when we married. We look back back now and laugh at how stupid and immature we were. We truly did grow up together. At times it got pretty tough. We got through it by our commitment to each other and, probably, sheer stubberness.
JamesM Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 A good marriage doesn't consist of people "putting up with each other." Just sayin'. Very true, but sometimes the only way a marriage survives is when two people actually "put up with each other" until the feelings of love return. Laurie, remember as you prepare for marriage that life will not be "and they lived happily ever after." And yes, I know you know that in your head, but yet you do feel that for the two of you it will be different. Or perhaps you feel the opposite...you worry that this will not be happily ever after. Relax and simply continue on as you did before. While you are married, others will be divorcing. Every divorce you read or hear of will be a wakeup call to the two of you...could that have been us? And the answer should be no, because we (fill in the blank). If I had a list of all the people who I knew that have been divorced since we got married, I would be very depressed. The question is...what is different about us that keeps us together? And the word most people will answer with is commitment.
Touche Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Well James, maybe that works in your marriage. And I don't judge anything that works for a particular couple. It's just that I've never felt like I was "putting up with" my H. Never. I guess for us it's been, at times, a matter of compromising and/or forgiving as opposed to "putting up with" and tolerating. Also, commitment without love, understanding and compromise means nothing. It just means two people can stay together. It doesn't mean they're thriving or are happy within the marriage. In other words, commitment in and of itself is not a guarantee of a happy marriage.
Star Gazer Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 I think LB's friends are divorcing because they weren't ready for marriage. I don't necessarily think that's the result of "rushing" things (they got married 1 year, 4 months after meeting - that's a long time for many people), but rather their maturity levels and understanding of what a marriage requires. I bet you a million bucks that her female friend thought she'd be living "happily ever after," as though she were living out a real life, modern day fairytale. Unfortunately, when one has such high expectations, they're bound to be disappointed. Laurie, remember as you prepare for marriage that life will not be "and they lived happily ever after." And yes, I know you know that in your head, but yet you do feel that for the two of you it will be different. LB most certainly thinks she'll be living happily ever after. The question is...what is different about us that keeps us together? And the word most people will answer with is commitment. It takes way more than commitment for a marriage to survive... at least a HAPPY marriage, anyway. Maturity and compatibility come to mind.
Touche Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 It takes way more than commitment for a marriage to survive... at least a HAPPY marriage, anyway. Maturity and compatibility come to mind. I think we were posting at the same time, SG. That's it exactly. Did you see what I posted right before you? Even LOVE doesn't guarantee a happy marriage! I know that from my first marriage. We were both committed and loved each other. Didn't matter. We were as incompatible as they come. So you got that right!
Star Gazer Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 BTW.... there ARE statistics out there that show the younger the couple is when they marry, the more likely they are to divorce. This could be due to being immature, or really "growing up" (but apart) within the marriage. As you'd expect, the statistics also show that the older the couple is when they marry, the more likely they are to stay together for the long haul. This is probably because (generally speaking) the older you are, the more mature you are, and the more you "know" yourself and what you need/want out of a relationship (as does your partner), so you know how to pick the right person. The divorce rate drops dramatically after 30. http://www.divorcerate.org/
Touche Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 And I'd like to add that the comments thrown out about 2nd and 3rd marriages having an even higher rate of divorce were not exactly accurate. I mean yes, it's true BUT what you have to do is compare apples to apples. Many (if not most) of those second and third marriages, involve children/stepchildren and blended families, etc. Those marriages DO have a higher rate of divorce. So if we're bringing in 2nd and 3rd marriages into this, lets at least look at the numbers of those who have NO kids in the mix. I'm too busy to look that up now, but my guess is that they'd have a higher rate of success than the first marriages. I could be wrong but that's what I'd think.
JamesM Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 It's just that I've never felt like I was "putting up with" my H. Never. I guess for us it's been, at times, a matter of compromising and/or forgiving as opposed to "putting up with" and tolerating. The definition of "putting up with" may be different for us. My meaning is that there have been times (and thankfully are not now) that marriage has been difficult for whatever reason. She was sick. I was overworked. The future looked uncertain. A pregnancy was difficult. And it was then that she or I "put up" with one another when we were not at our best. While love and commitment were within us, the fuzzy feelings of love were not outwardly felt. My definition does not mean tolerate with a mixture of resentment. Instead it means tolerating with a huge amount of understanding that sometimes we are not going to have the perfect partner. It means that while the partner is not reciprocating with gratefulness and admiration at this time, we know that "this too shall pass." Also, commitment without love, understanding and compromise means nothing. It just means two people can stay together. It doesn't mean they're thriving or are happy within the marriage. In other words, commitment in and of itself is not a guarantee of a happy marriage. No, commitment without love is not a happy marriage. Nor is love without commitment a happy marriage. It takes both. But again, a marriage will not always be happy. And when it is not, commitment and love or even just commitment which is based on love can be what carries that marriage through the tough times so that it can again be happy. The question then becomes...can a marriage be happy all of the time, and if not, why do some couples still survive then thrive while others cannot even survive? And can a marriage with commitment and love from only one partner survive and become a happy marriage? Can one person make a happy marriage? Can the actions of one person while at the time are seemingly hopeless, turn around a marriage so that both partners enjoy a happy marriage?
JamesM Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 And I'd like to add that the comments thrown out about 2nd and 3rd marriages having an even higher rate of divorce were not exactly accurate. I mean yes, it's true BUT what you have to do is compare apples to apples. Many (if not most) of those second and third marriages, involve children/stepchildren and blended families, etc. Those marriages DO have a higher rate of divorce. Yes, it is 70%. http://www.alllaw.com/articles/family/divorce/article49.asp So if we're bringing in 2nd and 3rd marriages into this, lets at least look at the numbers of those who have NO kids in the mix. I'm too busy to look that up now, but my guess is that they'd have a higher rate of success than the first marriages. I could be wrong but that's what I'd think. You are correct. And age does matter, but it matters from 25 and up. Divorce happens about 35% of the time if someone remarries without children and is above 25. Obviously, it is because the first marriage was when the person was too young. The question is...how many second marriages have no kids? And my guess is that a smaller percentage than those that do have kids involved.
Star Gazer Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 And age does matter, but it matters from 25 and up. Divorce happens about 35% of the time if someone remarries without children and is above 25. Obviously, it is because the first marriage was when the person was too young. Look at the stats I posted. 30 really is when there's a dramatic change, not 25. Stop trying to be the white horse, James. Focus on facts.
Touche Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 The definition of "putting up with" may be different for us. My meaning is that there have been times (and thankfully are not now) that marriage has been difficult for whatever reason. She was sick. I was overworked. The future looked uncertain. A pregnancy was difficult. And it was then that she or I "put up" with one another when we were not at our best. While love and commitment were within us, the fuzzy feelings of love were not outwardly felt. My definition does not mean tolerate with a mixture of resentment. Instead it means tolerating with a huge amount of understanding that sometimes we are not going to have the perfect partner. It means that while the partner is not reciprocating with gratefulness and admiration at this time, we know that "this too shall pass." No, commitment without love is not a happy marriage. Nor is love without commitment a happy marriage. It takes both. But again, a marriage will not always be happy. And when it is not, commitment and love or even just commitment which is based on love can be what carries that marriage through the tough times so that it can again be happy. The question then becomes...can a marriage be happy all of the time, and if not, why do some couples still survive then thrive while others cannot even survive? And can a marriage with commitment and love from only one partner survive and become a happy marriage? Can one person make a happy marriage? Can the actions of one person while at the time are seemingly hopeless, turn around a marriage so that both partners enjoy a happy marriage? Well said. And you ask some good questions. I'll take a stab at answering some of them but I'd be interested in hearing your answers since you're also in a long-term marriage. First, no. I don't think there's a marriage where the two people are happy ALL of the time. The difference between those who make it and ride out the tough times and those who don't really has to do with a a mixture of compatibility, maturity, love, commitment, ability to negotiate among other things. There's no formula here. And it's different from couple to couple, obviously. A younger and inexperienced couple I don't think will have the tools to negotiate the ups and downs of a marriage. They don't always possess the ability to see the "big picture" and instead focus on the wrong things. As to the other questions pertaining to whether the actions of ONE partner can turn things around. Many times, YES. Many times it's up to one partner to pull the other through. To carry them if you will. So yeah, that can work. But the danger comes in if it's ALWAYS one doing the pulling. If it's always the same partner carrying the load. That's when you have a recipe for disaster. I know in my own marriage, one or the other of us has carried us through at one time or another. Mostly we share whatever comes our way to deal with. But yeah, sometimes it's not so equitable. As l said though, as long as it balances out in the end and it's not lopsided, it's fine.
JamesM Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Look at the stats I posted. 30 really is when there's a dramatic change, not 25. Actually, between 25 and 29 is already a huge difference. It went from 36% to 16%. This is more than halfed. Then we need to see how many we are dealing with at each age. Very few people actually wait until 30 to be married for the first time. Would that percentage remain the same if more people waited, or would it increase. Are we comparing apples to apples here? Stop trying to be the white horse, James. Focus on facts. As a member of the legal profession, you well know there really is no such thing as facts...especially when you are dealing with statistics. It is a matter of picking the site that supports your theory. I could find you a number of sites that give different statistics based on how they worded the questions and collected the data. BTW, your sites shows that 67% of second marriages end in divorces. I agree. Age matters but I think it is related to the maturity of the person at that age. Younger folks survived and thrived because they were more mature. Interestingly enough, your site also shows that the divorce rate in marriages without children is actually higher than those with children. Hmm.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted July 7, 2009 Author Posted July 7, 2009 Well said. And you ask some good questions. I'll take a stab at answering some of them but I'd be interested in hearing your answers since you're also in a long-term marriage. First, no. I don't think there's a marriage where the two people are happy ALL of the time. The difference between those who make it and ride out the tough times and those who don't really has to do with a a mixture of compatibility, maturity, love, commitment, ability to negotiate among other things. There's no formula here. And it's different from couple to couple, obviously. A younger and inexperienced couple I don't think will have the tools to negotiate the ups and downs of a marriage. They don't always possess the ability to see the "big picture" and instead focus on the wrong things. As to the other questions pertaining to whether the actions of ONE partner can turn things around. Many times, YES. Many times it's up to one partner to pull the other through. To carry them if you will. So yeah, that can work. But the danger comes in if it's ALWAYS one doing the pulling. If it's always the same partner carrying the load. That's when you have a recipe for disaster. I know in my own marriage, one or the other of us has carried us through at one time or another. Mostly we share whatever comes our way to deal with. But yeah, sometimes it's not so equitable. As l said though, as long as it balances out in the end and it's not lopsided, it's fine. Good post. I liked some of the things you pointed out. Oh and I def. plan on living happily ever after, no doubt about that.
Touche Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Good post. I liked some of the things you pointed out. Oh and I def. plan on living happily ever after, no doubt about that. Thanks, LB. Of course all of us who enter into a marriage expect to live happily ever after. Lord knows, I did the first time around. I just really thought love and commitment were enough to see us through...little did I know. I really do wish you guys the best, LB. Just remember that marriage is often not a piece of cake. It really can get tough. Just try to always be supportive of each other. And try to forgive each other when you screw up..because trust me, you will.
Mr. Lucky Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 I can't even believe this. My friend is only 24 and she is getting divorced!!! They have been married for 4 years, however did get married along the fast side. And it's just so weird because they got engaged after 7 months and got married like 9 months later. In a way, I think that they are fortunate. No kids involved, perhaps they simply came to believe that they weren't right for each other. Better to split young and with your life ahead of you than waste decades unhappy. Hopefully their split wasn't based on one partner's infidelity... Mr. Lucky
Star Gazer Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 Thanks, LB. Of course all of us who enter into a marriage expect to live happily ever after. Lord knows, I did the first time around. I just really thought love and commitment were enough to see us through...little did I know. I really do wish you guys the best, LB. Just remember that marriage is often not a piece of cake. It really can get tough. Just try to always be supportive of each other. And try to forgive each other when you screw up..because trust me, you will. I agree with everything you said. I just worry about those who literally expect a fairytale...
Author Lauriebell82 Posted July 8, 2009 Author Posted July 8, 2009 I agree with everything you said. I just worry about those who literally expect a fairytale... Haha, in no way do I expect a fairlytale. We have not had fairlytale dating, therefore I wouldn't expect a marriage to be that way. The reason I have confidence in our relationship is that we are able to work out any kind of issues or arguments we may have and are very happy. I would expect that we will have issues in our marriage but I know we will work them out. That's what you do.
Enema Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 I think it's good that divorce is easier to process these days. People change drastically as they age and there's no reason to think that a person you're compatible with at 25 will be good for you at 50. That you manage to "stick with" a marriage is not an indication of success - you could be miserable! I'm not saying you should split up at the first speedbump.... but by all means, if things obviously aren't working out - divorce!
Author Lauriebell82 Posted July 11, 2009 Author Posted July 11, 2009 I spoke with my friend and she told me that the reason that they seperated was because they began fighting constantly, about every little thing. She said mostly it was over money because she got laid off and had to take a less paying job. She's very upset but she did say that she was just sick of arguing over the same thing.
lkjh Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 A 20 year old and a 25 year old is the same age to you? Okay then, that's obviously why you have that opinion. A 5 year difference from 20 to 25 is pertty significant to most folks. At 20: living at home, part time job in school. At 25: moved out, full time job, owns car. Not even comparable! One of the smartest people I have ever known was a former professor, and I will never forget the advice he once gave me.........he told me people can change but it is rare. The only thing that changes a person is a life altering experience. He said a person is who they are once they hit 16 years old. They may change a little, but a selfish 16 year old will grow into a selfish 50 year old. You underestimate 20 year olds. Society is the reason why divorce rate is so high. Now of days we encourage divorce, marriage is not valued anymore. It's pretty much just a reality TV show now.
fooled once Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 All I meant was that I don't the majority need to be 30 to be ready (excluding exceptions). I think the majoity is ready mid to late 20's and not mid 30's. I totally disagree. I agree that people really shouldn't get married before they are 30. MOST people in their 20's are immature, have minimal 'life' experience and are just starting careers and starting to learn about long lasting love. They have little idea how to really handle life. They have been 'taken care of' for 18 years by their parents and are just learning coping skills. Decades ago, people in their 20's were much more responsible, mature and 'grown up' when they were that age. Today's generation of 20 year olds, IMHO, are immature, spoiled, ungrateful, irresponsible people. They have had everything handed to them by parents who didn't want Johnny or Suzy to ever go without anything They truly aren't ready for a life long commitment.
fooled once Posted July 12, 2009 Posted July 12, 2009 Totally disagree there. I still say MOST are not ready before 30. Mid 20's is no different to me than 20...pretty much the same maturity level there. One's brain isn't even fully developed until 25. Did you know that? And 7 months is PLENTY of time for two mature people in their 30's and beyond to know whether they're a good match or not. ONE month is enough for that matter. At least it was for my H and I. We'd been around the block a time or two so yeah. We did know after one month that we were right for each other. I agree. I met my H in August and married in April. I was 34 and he was 42. We have been married 11+ years. We knew what we wanted; we both had been married before. With age comes maturity and wisdom. My first marriage - I was 22 and he was 26. Marriage lasted 9 years. We both were WAY too young to get married.
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