Thaddeus Posted July 5, 2009 Posted July 5, 2009 One would think, at the age of nearly 50, that I'd be able to figure this out but I'm truly flummoxed. I'm divorced and live a few doors down from a very attractive single mom (2 kids). We've always been "neighborly" but nothing beyond that. I am very attracted to her and would like to get to know her as a partner. I mentioned this to a friend and the suggestion was to simply "lay it on the line," tell her I had feelings and be direct and clear about it. The theory was that maybe she was feeling the same way towards me and just needed an opening. So, with pounding heart and clammy hands, I finally screwed up the courage and said, as casually as I could, "I'd be very interested in getting to know you on a more romantic and meaningful level." The theory didn't hold water. She was very nice, but said she didn't like me "in that way," that she doesn't feel any "chemistry" and I find myself friend-zoned (at least, I think that's what it's called). That was a couple of months ago. Today we were hanging out in my backyard enjoying a few cold beers while watching the kids play in the pool (hot day here today) and she was saying, "I'd sure like to have a boyfriend." I started to say something like, "Well, here I am!" but thought better of it. I enjoy and treasure our friendship and really believe that she and I would make a great couple but I don't want to make the same mistake of wearing my heart on my sleeve and have it crushed again. Going "no contact" isn't an option simply because we live so close together and I've grown attached to her kids (and they to me). I guess the short question would be, "What can I do for her to see me in a romantic light rather than as a 'friend'?"
alphamale Posted July 5, 2009 Posted July 5, 2009 I guess the short question would be, "What can I do for her to see me in a romantic light rather than as a 'friend'?" nothing...
Surfer Dude Posted July 5, 2009 Posted July 5, 2009 Well I'm a young guy (a bit less than half your age) but I think I have this sh*t figured out by now. See, you can't go direct with women who aren't attracted to you at first. That's what all lamers usually do, they go in direct, either blatantly (asking for sex) or in a completely pussified way ("I REALLY LIKE YOU A LOT WILL YOU GO OUT WITH ME BE MY GIRLFRIEND"). Now, that's not what we gentlemen do. The thing is, women don't perceive attraction in the same way we do. Women need their emotional buttons pushed, their passions fired up, their hearts captured. And what exactly did you do to spark such attraction in her? Women just want to be "seduced" by a quality guy who can arouse them emotionally (physical comes later). Just look at romantic novels. Romance and passion is women's porn. They are not logical creatures who will say "ok, I guess you like me so I guess I gotta F you now". No, they need to be aroused internally. The reason she brought up boyfriend talk is because she wanted to give you a lead to start talking about romance... she was giving you an opportunity to seduce her and sweep her off her feet. Imagine you could've said something like: - what does it take for you to feel... really... attracted to a guy? - me, I think it's really important that people can connect and understand each other on a deep level... can you imagine such a connection..? - if we could always be ourselves, without societal pressure... just our world, no judgment... Now that's the kind of stuff you should be saying. Find out about what she likes, tell her how great it is that two people can connect on a really deep level and appreciate each other blah blah... Just be a guy of passion and fire up her feelings! Everything else is just relying on luck and divine gods to create that attraction out of nowhere.
Author Thaddeus Posted July 5, 2009 Author Posted July 5, 2009 The reason she brought up boyfriend talk is because she wanted to give you a lead to start talking about romance... she was giving you an opportunity to seduce her and sweep her off her feet. So, if I read this right, you're suggesting that I use some of your advice, present it in such a way that it mirrors my personality, and see what happens?
Surfer Dude Posted July 5, 2009 Posted July 5, 2009 So, if I read this right, you're suggesting that I use some of your advice, present it in such a way that it mirrors my personality, and see what happens? Women are emotional creatures, and as such, respond to having their emotional buttons pushed. Laws of attraction are universal. You can do what you like, but my bet is that this would yield better results than any half assed attempt out there. Supplicating your way into her pants with expensive dinner dates sucks because it sets a bad precedent for your relationship, reduces your value and exposes you to all sorts of manipulation. And plainly admitting you're into her reeks of desperation and she'll be thinking "wow, I haven't even done anything for this guy yet and he's so obsessed. He must be a very desperate guy". Change her mood, not her mind! YEAAHH! Attraction!
gfto Posted July 5, 2009 Posted July 5, 2009 the suggestion was to simply "lay it on the line," tell her I had feelings and be direct and clear about it. bad idea. She was very nice, but said she didn't like me "in that way," that she doesn't feel any "chemistry" game over. there is no escape from "friend zone." ever. Today we were hanging out in my backyard enjoying a few cold beers while watching the kids play in the pool (hot day here today) and she was saying, "I'd sure like to have a boyfriend." She just wants to see if you'd try again and stroke her ego. I guess the short question would be, "What can I do for her to see me in a romantic light rather than as a 'friend'?" zip. zero. nada.
likeORIGAMI Posted July 5, 2009 Posted July 5, 2009 Change her mood, not her mind! Someone's been doing their homework.
Epsilon Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 Yeah, the "friend zone" is pretty much an inescapable black hole. Once you're in, it's damn near impossible to get out. She knows you had romantic interest in her before, and so she was just trying to get you to stroke her ego/boost her confidence. If she were trying to stir up a potential romantic connection with you, she would have gone about it differently. Just my 2c
Author Thaddeus Posted July 6, 2009 Author Posted July 6, 2009 So the sense that I'm getting here is that: I shouldn't have been so up-front about pursuing a romantic relationshipShe's getting her ego stroked by sending out mixed/teasing messagesI'm friend-zoned, which means there's pretty much zero chance of anything more meaningful between us. About right?
SoulSearch_CO Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 So the sense that I'm getting here is that: I shouldn't have been so up-front about pursuing a romantic relationshipShe's getting her ego stroked by sending out mixed/teasing messagesI'm friend-zoned, which means there's pretty much zero chance of anything more meaningful between us. About right? Looks like you got the gist. I agree with all 3 points. Time to start looking for other women. I'm really not into games, but to be quite honest, a man that's unavailable is more attractive than one that's always around. If you have ANY prospect of getting out of the friendzone, it would be by her seeing you're desirable because other females are dating you.
Author Thaddeus Posted July 6, 2009 Author Posted July 6, 2009 Looks like you got the gist. I agree with all 3 points. Time to start looking for other women. I'm really not into games, but to be quite honest, a man that's unavailable is more attractive than one that's always around. If you have ANY prospect of getting out of the friendzone, it would be by her seeing you're desirable because other females are dating you. You know, I really don't have any problems meeting women. There's enough experience in these middle-aged bones that I don't really have any concerns about approaching and getting to know women. And, like you, I don't do games, which is why I made the original approach in the manner in which I did. (Oddly enough, it usually works too, just not with my neighbor/friend). I suppose I put her on a pedestal - the whole "unavailability" thing maybe makes her more attractive to me than she'd otherwise be. Still, I think it's sad. I sincerely think that she and I would be a great couple. But since she's friend-zoned me, I guess that's just not going to happen. On to greener pastures, I suppose. Thanks, everyone, for all your input. (Sure wish some women wound have chimed in, but I do appreciate all your advice.)
Charles1978 Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 Escaping the friend zone is not impossible. I'm currently dating a girl who I was friends with for 14 months before anything happened... and I mean anything. I had laid it on the line to her once before, then started dating around. She swears that this had nothing to do with her feelings, but she made a move after I had started dating another girl. To this day, a part of me worries about her motives, but we are extremely happy, and the sexual chemistry is the best I have ever experienced. So, NO, escaping the friend zone is not impossible. Start seeing other women, then see what happens.
SoulSearch_CO Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 (Sure wish some women wound have chimed in, but I do appreciate all your advice.) *snicker* And what do you call ME? LOL I said that men are somehow more attractive when they're less available. I'm speaking from experience. If there were a guy I was friends with, but only wanted to leave it there, and he professed his feelings like you did - I would have had her same reaction. But if you start seeing women, going out, having fun....in her shoes, I'd start wondering what I was missing out on. That's what I was trying to say. It's about 50/50 on it even making a difference - it may or it may not.
Jilly Bean Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 OK, she could have been doing one of two things. 1 - floating it out there because she changed her mind about dating, and wanted to feel you out and see if you'd bite, or 2 - she was making a general comment to her FRIEND and testing your ability to maintain that level. Man, women can suck, right? I would play along with her. Next time you're hanging out, mention a new date and see how she responds.
Author Thaddeus Posted July 6, 2009 Author Posted July 6, 2009 *snicker* And what do you call ME? LOL One more the the "oops" file. Sorry about that!
Left in a Lurch Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 To me she was being extremely mean or very insensitive which doesn't make for a good friend. I have watched friends at parties with women they desperately want and the woman knows, and they flirt enough to keep the guy going but the women tell me they have no interest at all. I hate that because how do I tell the guy he is spinning his wheels and crush him, when he keeps getting all these clues that there might be hope, signals that I see she is clearly sending him? I think you are in a tough spot though, I don't personally believe you can ever really be a friend to someone you are interested in romantically who isn't interested in you. If you talk about things and give advice you always have alterior motives so your advice would be destructive to them. Think about how you'll feel when her kids are playing in your pool and you two are hanging out and her boyfriend comes up and kisses her, or even if she asks you to do something like watch her kids while she goes out with another guy. What if she asks you something like, "My boyfriend went to a strip club last night for a friend's birthday and we had a fight about it.", are you going to try to convince her that he is a bad guy because you want to break them up? If it were me I would be honest with my actions that I was interested in her more than as a friend and not pretend. Like Jilly said, next time play along. If she talks about it again you can do something like, without saying a word walk over to a garden, yours, hers, neighbor's (even better), whoever's, cut out a flower and give it to her. Tell her you'll be her boyfriend for the day, problem solved and say that you are surprised she was so comfortabl with you that she already introduced her new boyfriend to her kids.
Kamille Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 My interpretation of the boyfriend comment is this: you are definitely friendzoned. See, the way I see it, when with friends of any gender, I will say things like "I sure wish I had a boyfriend". So yeah, move on Thaddeus, move on.
Author Thaddeus Posted July 6, 2009 Author Posted July 6, 2009 Thanks again, everyone, for all the input. I've invited a nice young lady over tonight for a barbecue, and given the proximity of our respective backyards, my hot neighbor is bound to meet her. Should be interesting. I'll keep you posted. (For the record, I've known this other woman for a while, and though we've been, uh, "involved" before, it never amounted to anything. Also, my intentions are pure here: I'm NOT inviting my other ladyfriend over just so I can get my hot neighbor jealous or anything. That's game-playing, and I don't do games. It's simply a bbq with an attractive friend with no expectations other than a good steak.)
GorillaTheater Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Yeah, let us know; I'd be interested in seeing how it plays out. I've been reading some of your posts; great writing style. Reminds me of me.
Author Thaddeus Posted July 7, 2009 Author Posted July 7, 2009 Yeah, let us know; I'd be interested in seeing how it plays out. I've been reading some of your posts; great writing style. Reminds me of me. Thanks. I remind me of myself too! Bbq went off without a hitch. While my dinner guest and my hot neighbor didn't actually meet (which, frankly, surprised me) my neighbor did know that I was entertaining a young woman. No drama, no nonsense (and no sex... it wasn't in the cards) just a very nice evening with a good friend, a good bbq and an excellent movie.
torranceshipman Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Are you kidding me Surfer Dude, lol! I would love it if a guy I really liked came straight out and said 'hey I really like you, I'm laying it on the line and I want you to know that I'm really into you'. Awesome - I'd be completely disarmed by his honesty and confidence and I'd be his, no problem. That would be great. But people are rarely that straightforward. All of the guys I date tend to be attractive, successful and confident (and masculine) and I get asked out a lot - the ones that play games, pussy foot around, try to seduce me...well, some have got game, I'll admit, but 100% the guy who did what I described above (i.e. straightforward) would TOTALLY stand out from the pack and I'd want to be with him. SurferDude you are an absolute sweetie but I can tell you're young. I'm in my 30's so maybe the kind of girls you meet want something completely different...but this is defiintely my feedback. Plus for some of us, romance is not woman's porn. Romance movies suck and the books are even worse!!! If a man took that approach with me, I'd bomb out of the date early.
torranceshipman Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 To add to this...if she simply feels no chemistry with you, then there is nothing that you can do, unfortunately...
stepka Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 Thaddeus, I'm a fifty yo woman and I can say that surfer dude has it right. I would probably have clammed up at your original approach too, b/c it would have embarrassed me. You have to slide in sideways and flirt a little. I don't think it's impossible to get out of the friendzone though--try the sideways approach, very subtly at first, then maybe a little bolder if it seems well received. Meanwhile, keep up the friendship w/ her kids b/c some of us are suckers for guys who are great w/ kids, esp if we're good moms ourselves. In fact, start now and see how it goes and get back with us here.
littlewhiterose Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 I agree with the "getting in sideways". Flirt with her a little, then drop it. Give her a little time to think about what other good qualities you possess that she may have missed the first time- that just keep popping up. Get her gears a'turning.
Surfer Dude Posted July 8, 2009 Posted July 8, 2009 Well Torrance, there are exceptions to every rule and we have to deal with that as we live in a chaotic, non deterministic world. What I said was a rough generalization, but certainly there are some women to whom such rules don't apply. The true art is calibration - being able to adjust to any situation and to any person's needs. In my experience, "going under the radar" works the best, because it's discreet and doesn't make women feel like sluts and trigger any negative feelings. But like I said, there are always some exceptions.
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