silktricks Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 I really do not want to have to feel that , in this person's eyes, I am such chopped liver that she needs to take extraordinary precautions or be constantly vigilant so as to avoid the temptation of jettisoning me, upgrading in her eyes. It just seems that would really affect my self esteem. I don't want to go thorugh life feeling that I am so undesirable to my spouse that she has to artificially force herself to act with loyalty toward me. I mean really, at some point, didn't your WS send you a very clear message that in his or her estimation, he or she preferred the affair partner to you.That in his or her assessment, you were inferior to that person? I know we do not have to accept this assessment and should not. But, if they chose someone else over you, that is the message that was sent. Ahhh, well, you are coming from a slightly different place than I. For one, I am absolutely of the opinion that anyone given the circumstances can get "caught up" in an affair. All it takes is: 1. feeling unhappy about your current life - which usually includes "he/she doesn't love me as much as I love her/him" 2. feeling that as a result of number 1, that you "deserve" better treatment, i.e. from a different person 3. being is a situation that is conducive to satisfying that desire (i.e. often in the company of persons of the opposite sex which does not include your spouse) 4. meeting a person who treats you the way you "deserve" to be treated (at least temporarily). And I think that items 2 and 3 happen to almost everyone at least occasionally. So I don't think of keeping your guard up and yourself out of bad situations is extraordinary precautions --- I think of it as something everyone should do to protect yourself from falling into a trap. I have ALWAYS thought of my husband as someone very very special, but that doesn't mean I don't need to guard against my own bad judgement... And, of course, you are right - while the affair is going on, the message is very clear that something is wrong with you, that you are not as handsome/pretty, interesting, sexy, fun, etc. as the affair partner. BUT - if you can see that in context none of that is really true - else why go to SUCH lengths to fix things up with you after they've "come to" then you can get past much of it. In my case my husband thought I found work far more interesting than being with him. I could see how that could have happened for him, and yet knew that it was absolutely not true. Therefore, I could also see that he could easily be telling me the truth when he told me (and told me and told me and told me) that she wasn't anything in his eyes compared to me. Actually as time went on, and counselling continued, he realized that what he was really doing had little if anything to do with me and a whole lot to do with "payback" towards women who were of the type of the "OW" - who was nothing like me. So, I think a lot of getting past an affair has to do with how we translate what has gone on outside of ourselves (in addition, of course, to how we are treated post affair by our SO.)
Reggie Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 I must admit that I never expierenced my XWW demonstrating any remorse or doing any of the work to help me recover. So, I don't know how I would view her if she had. And, I know, intellectually, that her choice is not a reflection on me. With time and watching her affair crumble and how she struggles with her new lot in life, it is clearer to me that she is just messed up beyond belief and no one could have a fulfilling, intimate relationship with her.
HsMomma Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 I must admit that I never expierenced my XWW demonstrating any remorse or doing any of the work to help me recover. So, I don't know how I would view her if she had. And, I know, intellectually, that her choice is not a reflection on me. With time and watching her affair crumble and how she struggles with her new lot in life, it is clearer to me that she is just messed up beyond belief and no one could have a fulfilling, intimate relationship with her. I'm glad you see that, Reggie. My XWH never demonstrated remorse either, nor tried to do anything to recover our M. I honestly don't think he was capable of either of these things, so I don't know how I'd react had he been able to do those. I just know that I refused/refuse to remain stuck as some "undesirable" just 'cause he said so!
silktricks Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 That really sucks. If your SO has hurt you so badly then takes no responsibility for that pain you have nowhere left to go with them. Divorce is the only option if you want to keep any sanity (or self-respect). Recovering from that pain on your own could take a long time . I'm glad you are both doing better now, because no one deserves what happened to you.
Reggie Posted July 6, 2009 Posted July 6, 2009 Yes, but there is the added benefit of being "away from her"." So, I got that going for me, which is nice."(Carl-Caddyshack).
clv0116 Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 To forget in this context does not mean to have a defective memory, it merely means to be able to get to a place where you no longer bring the memory to mind, particularly unprompted.
beesue Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 so is it better to stay with that person and work things out and be reminded of the pain daily, or to leave that person and remember that pain also, and suffer through future relationships?
Chrome Barracuda Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Forgive. possible. Forget...the mind will never let you forget. I remember every scar I got on my body and how I got it. The mind is no different. The human mind has a way of never forgetting the bad things. ever.
clv0116 Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Forgive. possible. Forget...the mind will never let you forget. I remember every scar I got on my body and how I got it. The mind is no different. The human mind has a way of never forgetting the bad things. ever. Horsecrap. There are a ton of bad things that have happened to me that I never think about unless I'm specifically reminded of it. Stop being so literal, "forgive and forget" means to stop bringing the injury to mind, not to cause oneself a head injury.
Athena Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 I have forgotten the pains of Child Birth! It's possible to forget the exact details of the pain... just to remember the fact that you did experience pain... Heck, when it comes to my H's infidelities, I have pretty much 'forgotten' all the pain... but, then again, it was 8 affairs ha ha... one gets a bit muddled, and a bit desensitized when the numbers get so high. grr.
Chrome Barracuda Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Horsecrap. There are a ton of bad things that have happened to me that I never think about unless I'm specifically reminded of it. Stop being so literal, "forgive and forget" means to stop bringing the injury to mind, not to cause oneself a head injury. Everyone is different just because I remember doesnt mean you wont, but I am easily triggered over certain things said or seen. It may not happen to you but it damn sure does to me. So take it like I write it.
Athena Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 He tells me that if we're going to make it I need to get over it. He hasn't gone to counciling or tried anything. He sees me crying all the time and says stop it, it's done and over with. My H did the exact same as yours... quite heartless! Also, my H said that since his orgasm with OW only lasted 5 seconds, why am I 'still' making him 'pay' What an idiot. Selfish, self-centered egotists. Only their own reality and their own feelings matter -- not yours, not anyone else's... ugh!
Athena Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Strengthen yourself Bridgett, next time your H gets callous -- get up loud in his face! Shout back at him, do not crumple! You will be surprised how well this technique works... they back right off...
Owl Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 so is it better to stay with that person and work things out and be reminded of the pain daily, or to leave that person and remember that pain also, and suffer through future relationships? Well, as someone who reconciled with his fWS, I'd tell you that you're NOT reminded of the pain daily, if you both truly took all the steps needed to recover. But remember, it typically takes 2-5 years if everything goes well to get to that kind of point. Short term...yes, you likely will be reminded of that pain daily for the first year easily. Two even, quite likely. After that...not so much. But only YOU can decide whether or not you want to attempt to reconcile. Whether or not you think the effort and work are worth it.
Owl Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Everyone is different just because I remember doesnt mean you wont, but I am easily triggered over certain things said or seen. It may not happen to you but it damn sure does to me. So take it like I write it. Because it happens to you does NOT mean it happens to everyone else. I would agree with you that some do trigger easily, and some do not. Some can recover their marriage, and some cannot. All of us should keep that in mind when we post advice...I don't expect that every marriage can recover like mine did. I don't expect every BS to recover personally like I did. On the flip side, people should start also admitting that not every marriage is unrecoverable. Not every BS is left so scarred that they can't heal from the pain. It's fine to let a poster know what happened in YOUR circumstance...but it would also make sense to see that other situations can and do turn out differently as well.
Chrome Barracuda Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Because it happens to you does NOT mean it happens to everyone else. I would agree with you that some do trigger easily, and some do not. Some can recover their marriage, and some cannot. All of us should keep that in mind when we post advice...I don't expect that every marriage can recover like mine did. I don't expect every BS to recover personally like I did. On the flip side, people should start also admitting that not every marriage is unrecoverable. Not every BS is left so scarred that they can't heal from the pain. It's fine to let a poster know what happened in YOUR circumstance...but it would also make sense to see that other situations can and do turn out differently as well. Of course. I'm just saying everyone is different and everyone response to everything that happens to them is not gonna be the same. Like you may go for a reconciliation , I on the other hand may not. Some marriage could be saved, but then not every marriage will.
bentnotbroken Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 I no longer want to forget. It gave me the strength to move away from the destruction to a better place and to find myself again. The pain is still there on occasion, especially during special dates(anniversaries, birthdays, family reunions)but it isn't a constant companion anymore. I laugh more, I feel confident and I know where I am going. For me trust wasn't there so, the outcome is self explanatory...every case is different.
stuckinoz Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 I agree that you can't just forget, and that certain things may trigger your memory from time to time.~~~~ But - If you make a decision to say "I forgive you, let's work it out"...Shouldn't you (on some level) come to a point where you can "let it go" & not allow it to consume you 24/7?
Owl Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 I agree that you can't just forget, and that certain things may trigger your memory from time to time.~~~~ But - If you make a decision to say "I forgive you, let's work it out"...Shouldn't you (on some level) come to a point where you can "let it go" & not allow it to consume you 24/7? It takes a long time to get to this point...but, you're right...part of "forgiveness" IS choosing to "let it go" as best as you possibly can. Typically it stays an obsession for most BS's for a long time...but slowly, with work...it can fade.
seibert253 Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 I think it's 50/50 - you forgive but don't forget. I've long ago moved on and forgiven my Ex, but 20+ years later can still remember what it felt like. IMHO, that's the hardest thing to get past... Mr. Lucky Best describes what I've gone through. After a while and a lot of counseling WW broke down crying and asking when will you trust me? I told her that I will never fully trust her, or anyone for the matter of fact. I now do have a certain amount of trust of her, but I doubt I will ever fully have total trust.
OFGnomore Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Best describes what I've gone through. After a while and a lot of counseling WW broke down crying and asking when will you trust me? I told her that I will never fully trust her, or anyone for the matter of fact. I now do have a certain amount of trust of her, but I doubt I will ever fully have total trust. I hurt knowing the permanent damage done to my H. He'll move on with or without me, he's strong that way. But there will be scar tissue no doubt and this is where I feel strong anger toward myself for causing that. IME, it bothers me to read how some of these WSs cry and proclaim their love for their BSs. For me I couldn't utter those to words to H because I had already cheapened the meaning by my actions and my H would think I'm a continual liar. The M has to be rebuilt IMO. A new one. You can never go back to the way things were before the betrayal.
Reggie Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 so is it better to stay with that person and work things out and be reminded of the pain daily, or to leave that person and remember that pain also, and suffer through future relationships? Just depends on a lot of variables, I think. Some folks just need to get out, away to heal. The response of the WS seems critical. One factor that I feel is an absolute is that the WS must be remorseful and take full responsibility for the decision to cheat. This blameshifting/ justifying deal, pointing to marital problems as the reason seems almost knee jerk in these folks as they scurry to avoid facing what they did. It's human, but they need to get past it and evolve into real adults. In reality , only a small percentage of relationships survive infidelity. So, you need to get a handle on the fact that the sites promoting their marriage healing services for a fee are using some very skewed statistics and that if this is something that you cannot get past , you are very normal.
Reggie Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Horsecrap. There are a ton of bad things that have happened to me that I never think about unless I'm specifically reminded of it. Stop being so literal, "forgive and forget" means to stop bringing the injury to mind, not to cause oneself a head injury. Horsecrap right back at you. Anyone with half a brain remembers. You'd need a lobotomy to do otherwise.
clv0116 Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 Horsecrap right back at you. Anyone with half a brain remembers. You'd need a lobotomy to do otherwise. Don't be an idiot. If you truly forgive you won't be constantly reminding yourself, even though the neurons for that memory exist. If you don't stop bringing it to mind you are by definition harboring (keeping in a safe place) resentment toward the other. It's impossible to truly forgive and still harbor resentment, they are mutually exclusive.
clv0116 Posted July 7, 2009 Posted July 7, 2009 It may not happen to you but it damn sure does to me. So take it like I write it. Then you haven't truly forgiven. It can't be both ways.
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