Is A Man Entitled To Fathers Rights In A Pregnancy?

[Woggle]

This issue would not be nearly as huge as it is if society valued the father role more. To me a real man supports and raises his children. To walk away from your own flesh and blood is a cowardly act but at the same time feminists doing everything they can to devalue the role of the father is what has contributed to this problem. If men are nothing more than disposable sperm donors in family life why does it matter so much if we walk away? Feminists have told fathers in general to get lost and that is what many have done.

[Taramere]

This issue would not be nearly as huge as it is if society valued the father role more. To me a real man supports and raises his children. To walk away from your own flesh and blood is a cowardly act but at the same time feminists doing everything they can to devalue the role of the father is what has contributed to this problem. If men are nothing more than disposable sperm donors in family life why does it matter so much if we walk away? Feminists have told fathers in general to get lost and that is what many have done.

 

Who are these women you keep talking about? Is this all back to conversations you overheard from your mother and her friends around the kitchen table? When people are hurting, they come out with all kinds of garbage about the opposite sex. The woman who doesn't feel she'll ever be loved as she is, and whose father maybe left when she was a baby (and hasn't been in touch since) might protect herself by saying "well, who needs a man anyway?"

 

You, who had an abusive childhood at the hands of your mother, often stress the importance of men not needing women. The importance of being able to walk away if the woman isn't meeting the man's expectations within the relationship. Doesn't it occur to you that the women who talk angrily about not needing men in their lives have a mindset very similar to your own? Far from thinking that children don't need fathers in their life, I think that it's essential. If a child doesn't have its own father to turn to, then the mother really needs to identify someone else (whether a brother, her own father or a responsible male in her community) who can provide some kind of trustworthy father figure to the child.

 

Of all the things liable to make a person grow up and start taking responsibility, a child is probably the most effective. Even people who aren't parents will, if there are children who play an important role in their lives, start thinking more of those children and less of themselves. If a child can't bring out the responsible, caring adult in a fully grown human being, then nothing can - and any man who grasps onto some vague, multi-defined societal notion such as feminism as an excuse for rejecting his kid is just childishly hiding from the fact that he's a poor excuse for an adult.

 

I know you're not saying that you yourself would reject your own child because of feminism....but with your comments, you're enabling those men who would welcome any excuse to evade their responsibilities towards their own kids. I do sympathise with the plight of men who find themselves in the fatherhood role when it wasn't what they wanted. I commend men who make the best they can of the situation, and who attempt to play a positive role in the child's life even if they choose not to be in a relationship with its mother. The ones who choose to walk away on the basis that the situation was not one they willingly engineered and that the mother "had the option of abortion" just suck as adults, really.

[Woggle]

I'm not saying that any man should reject fatherhood to make some statement against feminism. That being said many women make it as difficult as possible for a man to have a relationship with his child beyond sending a check and much of this is a result of the feminist mentality that says fathers are nothing more than sperm and a check. Not all women are like this but there are too many cases of spiteful women using a child as a weapon against their father. When a society davalues fatherhood they should not be surprised at the state of affairs we have today.

[Taramere]

Not all women are like this but there are too many cases of spiteful women using a child as a weapon against their father. When a society davalues fatherhood they should not be surprised at the state of affairs we have today.

 

If you feel really strongly about this, Woggle (and these are issues you've been complaining about for a number of years now) why don't you train up to become a family lawyer? It's a court's role to seriously consider strong, well thought out and relevant arguments that can help it come to a fair decision. If you're sure of your ability to present arguments like that, and you want to genuinely help to bring changes about for people you consider have been treated unfairly, that would be the best way to go.

[grogster]

If you feel really strongly about this, Woggle (and these are issues you've been complaining about for a number of years now) why don't you train up to become a family lawyer? It's a court's role to seriously consider strong, well thought out and relevant arguments that can help it come to a fair decision. If you're sure of your ability to present arguments like that, and you want to genuinely help to bring changes about for people you consider have been treated unfairly, that would be the best way to go.

 

 

I'm not a Family Lawyer, but the benchmark has always been, as I understand, the best interest of the child. Of course that does beg the ultimate question.

 

Many men, even with the disposable income, are not disposed to pay child support. They would rather spend their disposable income on the hot new girl friend than the ex and kids. The ex's alleged witchy feminism is yet another excuse to evade financial (and moral) responsibility to one's offspring and family.

 

The whole "Dads as Victims" thing has a hollow, self-serving ring. Studies show that it's the deserting dads whose standard of living rises while deserted mom's and the kids' standard of living declines.

 

When men act like selfish pigs they have only themselves to blame--not women, "feminism" or the kids.

[clv0116]

clv, how is it equal or fair that if a woman wants a baby, she's the one who has to be pregnant?

 

It's fair because she's deciding to stay pregnant.

[clv0116]

So does that mean that you think the woman and child should be allowed to sue for damages and financial compensation when the man convinces the woman not to have an abortion and then abandons his parental responsibilities to his child following divorce or the couple's break up?

 

Obviously if he didn't opt out in the period where an abortion was available he's missed his window of opportunity. You really should read the thread a little.

[clv0116]

I was raised to not have sex unless I was willing to deal with the consequences. For a man, that might mean paying child support.

 

 

In the old days, for a woman getting pregnant meant that, edge cases aside, she was going to bear a child. This is no longer true. The world is a different place now and it's time to revamp mens rights to match those afforded women.

 

Bottom line is that there are a lot of women who would trap a man into fiscal servitude if given the chance and their sympathizers back them in this. I bet that if this opt out policy became law there would be a lot fewer "accidents" in birth control as well.

 

 

"It's OK, I'm on the pill."

[clv0116]

This issue would not be nearly as huge as it is if society valued the father role more. To me a real man supports and raises his children. To walk away from your own flesh and blood is a cowardly act but at the same time feminists doing everything they can to devalue the role of the father is what has contributed to this problem. If men are nothing more than disposable sperm donors in family life why does it matter so much if we walk away? Feminists have told fathers in general to get lost and that is what many have done.

 

This is pretty extreme but there is a grain or two of truth in there. Just look at the way popular media portrays men and you can see the view of those who are in a position to sway public opinion.

 

If memory serves (I killed my TV a long time ago) men are simpering, foolish, clueless, unskilled simpletons according to the media.

[Thornton]

After conception occurs, the woman has a choice about whether or not to become a parent. If she doesn't wish to be a parent, she can choose abortion or adoption. The man, however, does not currently have a choice about whether or not to become a parent, he has to abide by the decision the woman makes. As someone else commented, this is a major double standard; BOTH people should have a choice about whether or not to become parents. The woman can opt out via abortion/adoption, so the man should be given the same opportunity to opt out - obviously he cannot force adoption/abortion, so his method of opting out must be a legal one.

 

Such a method of opting out would benefit men who don't want to be forced into fatherhood, and there would probably be less broken families because women would be less likely to keep the child if they can't force the man into paying for it. And - probably an unpopular truth - it would decrease the number of illegitimate children that are born, it would benefit the women these guys eventually end up with because they won't be burdened with step-children, and it would benefit any legitimate children these guys have in the future because their Dad won't be spending his time and money on another family.

[sally4sara]

After conception occurs, the woman has a choice about whether or not to become a parent. If she doesn't wish to be a parent, she can choose abortion or adoption. The man, however, does not currently have a choice about whether or not to become a parent, he has to abide by the decision the woman makes. As someone else commented, this is a major double standard; BOTH people should have a choice about whether or not to become parents. The woman can opt out via abortion/adoption, so the man should be given the same opportunity to opt out - obviously he cannot force adoption/abortion, so his method of opting out must be a legal one.

 

Such a method of opting out would benefit men who don't want to be forced into fatherhood, and there would probably be less broken families because women would be less likely to keep the child if they can't force the man into paying for it. And - probably an unpopular truth - it would decrease the number of illegitimate children that are born, it would benefit the women these guys eventually end up with because they won't be burdened with step-children, and it would benefit any legitimate children these guys have in the future because their Dad won't be spending his time and money on another family.

 

While I agree to let scared and unprepared boys remain boys rather than allow them to become horrible fathers, I assure you, men being responsible for children is not the big appeal of having a child.

 

Children without fathers are legitimately children. The concept of illegitimate child=bad vs legitimate child =good is a concept reliant upon people buying into it. It deals with wills only now and not some shame a woman would avoid to stay welcome in the safety of a village. So I'm not sure what you fear happening if the country becomes peppered with single parent children. Illegitimate to whom? I guess is what I'm asking.

I have had several friends who would be real upset to hear they should view their step children as burdens - much like you suggest children largely are. And P.S., woman can be step parents too.

 

It is this immediate assumption that children must be burdens one should avoid that compels me to think it is a good idea to allow limit to the amount of boys who find opportunity to treat their children as such. Women who would do so, we've already acknowledged, get that choice already.

[Storyrider]

It's fair because she's deciding to stay pregnant.

Why can't the man get pregnant for once? Why must things always be so one-sided?

 

does not currently have a choice about whether or not to become a parent, he has to abide by the decision the woman makes. As someone else commented, this is a major double standard;

 

When men finally find a way to carry and give birth to babies (as I know they are so desperately eager to do) they can then be given the exact same rights as mothers re whether or not to abort.

[SincereOnlineGuy]

Is A Man Entitled To Fathers Rights In A Pregnancy?

 

 

This doesn't even make sense.

 

 

People reading this have no idea whether the male referenced is indeed a father at the time, or not. Are there any little ones already on the ground?

[clv0116]

Why can't the man get pregnant for once? Why must things always be so one-sided?

 

When I'm pregnant I think it's 100% fair for the woman to let me know she's surrendering her rights and responsibilities as a parent. Of course the converse is also fair.

 

Glad you finally came around.

[Taramere]

Dear Mr Bolter

 

Re-establishment of parental bond between you and child (X) born 1st July 2014

 

Thank you for you enquiry regarding the above. We note that both the applicant and the child (referred to hereafter as X) wish to meet, notwithstanding the terms of section 141 of the Equalisation of Parental Rights in the First Trimester of Pregnancy Act 2012 (referred to hereafter as The Act) which prohibits this where fathers have exercised their right, under section 2, to "opt out" of the parental role and a court order to that effect has been made.

 

We note from your comments that you deeply regret your earlier decision not to have any contact with your biological child, and we sympathise with your feelings about this. However, you gave up your rights in the first trimester of pregnancy. The legal implications of that are that X is as dead to you as it would have been to its biological mother had she aborted it.

 

For fairness, the law must ensure that biological fathers are placed in an equal position to mothers in the situation of an unexpected pregnancy. They have to have the right to reject the foetus, and if it is to be the same right as the biological mother's then that rejection must be permanent. You will appreciate the importance of men and women having equal rights to terminate any parental ties with the child in the first trimester of the pregnancy. For the law to have any authority and consistency in this matter, it must be applied rigorously and without exception.

 

In the event that you do meet and form a relationship with X, please be aware of the terms of section 156 of The Act which entitles the State to raise an action to recover all monies paid by the State towards the upkeep of X to this date. Courts also have the power to fine parties up to the sum of £3,500 (or impose a custodial sentence of up to three months) where they breach their obligations under section 141 of the Act.

 

We hope you find this information helpful. Please do not hesitate to contact us if you requre further information about this matter, and we will endeavour to assist as best we can.

[axisdenied]

Affidavit For Preemptive Dissolution of Parental Rights

 

"I, (your name), being of sound body and mind, have agreed to copulate with (her name), also of sound body and mind. In accordance with (your locality) law, I agree to preemptively waive all parental rights and responsibilities toward the unintended offspring."

 

Signed,

 

(Your name)

 

(Her name)

 

Dated: before you have sex."

 

. . . just in case anybody still believes that having sex is a frivolous, silly activity that carries no risk. You might also appeal to your local circuit about the prospect of waiving the consequences of venereal disease.

[Taramere]

Affidavit For Preemptive Dissolution of Parental Rights

 

"I, (your name), being of sound body and mind, have agreed to copulate with (her name), also of sound body and mind. In accordance with (your locality) law, I agree to preemptively waive all parental rights and responsibilities toward the unintended offspring."

 

Signed,

 

(Your name)

 

(Her name)

 

Dated: before you have sex."

 

. . . just in case anybody still believes that having sex is a frivolous, silly activity that carries no risk. You might also appeal to your local circuit about the prospect of waiving the consequences of venereal disease.

 

Every pub and nightclub would have to have a Notary Public on site.

 

A further thing occurs to me. Here, at least (UK), abortion is only permissible where two doctors have agreed that the risk to a woman's mental/physical health would be greater if she went ahead with a pregnancy than if she ended it.

 

So before men were permitted to opt out of fatherhood in the first trimester, they'd presumably have to similarly satisfy two independent, qualified practitioners that their mental and/or physical health would be jeopardised by the woman's pregnancy if they had to continue being exposed to the consequences of that pregnancy. Fair's fair, and the law must be consistent in these matters.