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Is A Man Entitled To Fathers Rights In A Pregnancy?

Jilly Bean

By Jilly Bean
in General Relationship Discussion

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Jilly Bean Established Member

Jilly Bean

Posted
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Another thread inspired this question.

 

Do you think a man is entitled a weighted opinion on whether someone he impregnated carries the baby to term, and then sues him for support, even if he is dead set against having the baby?

 

Personally, I think guys get the shaft (after the woman's had the shaft - lol). I think that a man's desire to have, or not have, a child should not be entirely dismissed and ignored, as it is in our current legal system. I think if a woman cops the attitude that it's her body, and her choice, then she should absorb all responsibility of said choice.

Art_Critic Established Member

Art_Critic

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Isn't a woman's right to choose about control over her body before the child is born ? During that time, the potential father has no obligation to the woman or the fetus.

So the issue of her being able to make all the decisions over her body is something that I support..

Once the baby is born, though, the issue is about what's best for the child and the child's life.

 

Also .. Since guys know the laws as they sit today then a man shouldn't be looking at this in hindsight..

 

The guy has the choice to not want a child before he has sex.. use a condom..

 

To me if a man doesn't want a child then he shouldn't be shooting off unprotected and he should be weary of where all his little guys are..

I always was when I was single.. every one was accounted for :laugh:

 

Do guys get the shaft.. a little bit.. but there is no other option that gives the woman total control over own body other than the way it is now..

Star Gazer Established Member

Star Gazer

Posted
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....she should absorb all responsibility of said choice.

 

But she didn't risk pregnancy alone. IMO, if you assume a risk, then you assume responsibility for the consequences, regardless of whether those consequences are to your liking.

clv0116 Established Member

clv0116

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But she didn't risk pregnancy alone. IMO, if you assume a risk, then you assume responsibility for the consequences, regardless of whether those consequences are to your liking.

 

I call BS.

 

If women insist on the right to terminate the pregnancy over the objections of the father then men should have the right to absolve themselves of responsibility subject to similar time constraints. In essence for the period she can legally abort he should be able to legally walk away.

Art_Critic Established Member

Art_Critic

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If women insist on the right to terminate the pregnancy over the objections of the father then men should have the right to absolve themselves of responsibility subject to similar time constraints. In essence for the period she can legally abort he should be able to legally walk away.

 

So you are saying that a man is nothing more than a sperm donor and that

he is only a father to a living child if he says so ?

and if he has a child of his DNA walking around that he doesn't have the responsibility to it if he "OPTS" out early ?

 

Can you imagine the world today if a guy could "OPT" out after pregnancy ?.. hahahaha..

Thornton Established Member

Thornton

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I think the point is that after the woman is pregnant she has the choice to terminate the pregnancy if she so desires, but the man does not. So the woman has a choice about whether the baby is carried to term, and if she doesn't want it she can abort, but the man has no say in this decision.

 

In a way I agree that the man should theoretically have a choice about whether a child that is 50% his is carried to term, but I see no way to enforce such a choice other than by violating the woman's human rights and tying her down and aborting her pregnancy without her consent. So unfortunately as long as the female is the one who carries the baby, the decision about whether or not to abort something within her own body will remain hers.

 

Perhaps there should be a scheme whereby the man could register his desire for an abortion, and if the woman refuses then she assumes the consequences. However once the man has done so he foregoes all parental rights, he doesn't pay child support but also cannot see the child, in much the same way as a sperm donor.

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Jilly Bean Established Member

Jilly Bean

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I think the point is that after the woman is pregnant she has the choice to terminate the pregnancy if she so desires, but the man does not. So the woman has a choice about whether the baby is carried to term, and if she doesn't want it she can abort, but the man has no say in this decision.

 

In a way I agree that the man should theoretically have a choice about whether a child that is 50% his is carried to term, but I see no way to enforce such a choice other than by violating the woman's human rights and tying her down and aborting her pregnancy without her consent. So unfortunately as long as the female is the one who carries the baby, the decision about whether or not to abort something within her own body will remain hers.

 

Perhaps there should be a scheme whereby the man could register his desire for an abortion, and if the woman refuses then she assumes the consequences. However once the man has done so he foregoes all parental rights, he doesn't pay child support but also cannot see the child, in much the same way as a sperm donor.

 

Very good, and I like your plan! :)

 

I think it's unfortunate that an act that involves two people, often ends up being the decision of ONE. Which is why I support a woman in her choice to have a child on her own, but if the bio dad is against it, then do it on your own. Otherwise, I wouldn't force abortion on anyone. Adoption is also a great choice...

 

I think if a woman REALLY wants to keep an unwanted pregnancy (from the bio dad's standpoint), then she should treat him like a donor, and therefore he'd be absolved of all parental rights and responsibilities.

Thornton Established Member

Thornton

Posted
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So you are saying that a man is nothing more than a sperm donor and that

he is only a father to a living child if he says so ?

and if he has a child of his DNA walking around that he doesn't have the responsibility to it if he "OPTS" out early ?

 

Can you imagine the world today if a guy could "OPT" out after pregnancy ?.. hahahaha..

 

Yes... there are many men who are nothing more than sperm donors, and they do not consider themselves to be fathers to living children. They opted out when they left their sperm at the clinic in a little plastic cup. If they can do it, other men should be able to do it too, subject to certain time constraints.

norajane Established Member

norajane

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I wonder how many more abortions/adoptions there would be if men could opt out and not have to pay child support if they didn't want the child. Men are stuck with the bill even if they vehemently oppose having the child and have no desire to be fathers. I think more than a few women would not keep the child if they knew the father wouldn't be required to support it.

clv0116 Established Member

clv0116

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Can you imagine the world today if a guy could "OPT" out after pregnancy ?.. hahahaha..

 

During, not after.

gopher Established Member

gopher

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I think there was an instance where a lesbian couple had a friend give them sperm, had the baby and then went after him for child support after they split. They got it too!!!

 

That said, I think it's up to the woman, and the guy is stuck with her decision, one way or the other.

Thornton Established Member

Thornton

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A man can have a one night stand which results in a woman he hardly knows bearing a child which he never sees. Even if he never meets the child and never sees the woman again, he is still required to pay child support. That seems inherently wrong to me. Surely it's possible for someone to legally give up all parental rights, thus absolving themselves of paying child support while also removing their right to see the child or be a parent to it in any way. Didn't Michael Jackson's ex-wife legally give up parental rights to her kids? I think men should be able to legally opt out of parenthood during the same period that the woman is legally able to have an abortion. Of course, then we would have the problem of women concealing their pregnancies until the deadline had passed!

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Jilly Bean Established Member

Jilly Bean

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I think more than a few women would not keep the child if they knew the father wouldn't be required to support it.

 

Totally agree. I think some women do this to try and trap a guy.

 

As a relevant story, when I was 22, a friend got pregnant by a roommate she had at the time. She wasn't involved with him, per se, it was a sex thing a couple of times.

 

Anyhow, she was totally against abortion, so she had the child, and then put her up for adoption. Two days later, she took the baby back.

 

The bio dad became abusive and unstable during her pregnancy, so rather than sue him for support and have to deal with him for a lifetime, she had him sign over all rights to their child and never got a dime from him.

 

She has been raising her daughter on her own, until she got married to a great guy last year.

 

To me, she is an illustration of a woman who had an unwanted pregnancy, truly wanted to keep her daughter, and it wasn't about getting $$$ or punishing some guy.

Art_Critic Established Member

Art_Critic

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Honestly.. if a man has a one night stand then he has the chance to not get a woman pregnant before he has sex.

He could use birth control that he is in control of.. A Condom..

 

How dumb is that guy that knocks up a one night stand ?.. in my book since we know the laws and know that if we get that one night stand pregnant we have to pay child support then it would be stupid to have sex without a condom..

 

How many chances does a guy need to be able to OPT out ?.. he gets his first chance while he is still thinking with the larger head...

Thornton Established Member

Thornton

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I once asked my friend, who is in her mid 30s, if she would have a baby by artificial insemination if she didn't meet the right guy within the next few years. She said of course not, because she wouldn't get any child support money: instead she would seduce a healthy looking guy and get pregnant without his consent, then sue him for child support. Says it all really :(

Thornton Established Member

Thornton

Posted
Posted
Honestly.. if a man has a one night stand then he has the chance to not get a woman pregnant before he has sex.

He could use birth control that he is in control of.. A Condom..

 

Accident happen. Condoms break or come off. Women have also been known to poke pins through them and put them back in the packet. If an accident does happen, both people are responsible, so both of them should have a choice about whether to be parents. It's obviously the woman's choice whether she carries the baby to term, but the man should be able to opt out of parenthood even though the child would still exist, i.e. he should be able to choose not to see it and not to pay child support.

clv0116 Established Member

clv0116

Posted
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Honestly.. if a man has a one night stand then he has the chance to not get a woman pregnant before he has sex.

He could use birth control that he is in control of.. A Condom.

 

Condoms fail, and women lie, and accidents happen. As long as the woman has an option it's only fair that men have a similar option. After all, in this day and age the woman is DECIDING to have a child. It's no longer over and done with at conception.

Hi.P.O'Crit Established Member

Hi.P.O'Crit

Posted
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If it's a ONS, I use condoms I brought not one's she provided. That's just my policy. Less likely hood of them being damaged.

sally4sara Established Member

sally4sara

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Accident happen. Condoms break or come off. Women have also been known to poke pins through them and put them back in the packet. If an accident does happen, both people are responsible, so both of them should have a choice about whether to be parents. It's obviously the woman's choice whether she carries the baby to term, but the man should be able to opt out of parenthood even though the child would still exist, i.e. he should be able to choose not to see it and not to pay child support.

 

Yeah. My ex-husband did this to me when we were having bad issues and I told him to either quit drinking or I was leaving.

We also must consider victims of rape or incest. They didn't get to choose their pregnancies. This event can muddy the waters of this topic in many ways.

 

So sometimes, it is the woman who had little choice in becoming pregnant. I agree with the idea you offer about an early window of time where the guy can file a motion of disinterest and willingness to give up his not only his rights, but also his responsibility to a child created by accident or deceit. Though it is a slippery notion; I worry it opens the door to the consideration of another motion option where men can petition and demand preemptive rights and try to get the woman to carry a child SHE doesn't want rights or responsibility to. There is no way around that her body would have to be hijacked from her to ensure this event even if, after it was over, she could OPT out too.

I also feel that if a man wishes to OPT out, he should be the one responsible for the medical costs. The procedure can only happen to the woman's body. She covers the risk of physical and mental harm - he can at least be the one taking a dent in the wallet so he can trot off.

Ariadne Established Member

Ariadne

Posted
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I think more than a few women would not keep the child if they knew the father wouldn't be required to support it.

 

Good point.

 

It's easy to say, well, too bad, I'm going to keep the baby and the custody and you get all the bills. :p

 

If you get a free pass like that, of course, make my day!

 

If they are not in an agreement:

 

If the mother is pregnant and she doesn't want to have the baby and the father does, then he should pay for the medical bills and the mother must have the baby and give it to him.

 

And if the woman wants to keep the baby and the father doesn't, then she should keep it and leave him out of it completely.

 

If they change their minds later, then they must renegotiate.

Thornton Established Member

Thornton

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I disagree with the above poster. Nobody should be able to make a woman have a baby she doesn't want. If the woman doesn't want the baby, it gets aborted, end of story. It's harsh, but she's not rent-a-womb, she can't be forced to carry a baby she doesn't want.

Stockalone Established Member

Stockalone

Posted
Posted
Another thread inspired this question.

 

Do you think a man is entitled a weighted opinion on whether someone he impregnated carries the baby to term, and then sues him for support, even if he is dead set against having the baby?

 

With the laws being what they are, men at least know that the woman's right to choose means he has no rights at all. It is unfair, but that is what a man agrees to, every time he has sex.

 

 

Personally, I think guys get the shaft (after the woman's had the shaft - lol). I think that a man's desire to have, or not have, a child should not be entirely dismissed and ignored, as it is in our current legal system. I think if a woman cops the attitude that it's her body, and her choice, then she should absorb all responsibility of said choice.

 

...

 

I think it's unfortunate that an act that involves two people, often ends up being the decision of ONE. Which is why I support a woman in her choice to have a child on her own, but if the bio dad is against it, then do it on your own. Otherwise, I wouldn't force abortion on anyone. Adoption is also a great choice...

 

Not having to pay child support when the guy doesn't want the baby might seem fair. However, it would not solve the problem where the guy wants the baby but the woman wants an abortion.

 

As Sally pointed out, if you want men to have a say, that particular problem would inevitably come up. What should happen when the woman wants an abortion but the man is against an abortion?

 

Should the woman in this case be forced to have the baby even though she doesn't want it and then give up the infant so the man can raise it?

 

Only then would I consider the whole process fair, but that is never going to happen. I honestly don't like the status quo but someone has to be in charge and ultimately decide. Giving the woman the last say is terribly unfair for the man, but the alternative (letting the man decide) is probably even worse, especially if guys could avoid responsibilty (and child support) that easily.

Adunaphel Established Member

Adunaphel

Posted
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I think that in a real (opposed to ideal) world any law made in order to protect unwilling fathers who have been tricked would end up being twisted and exploited.

 

Besides, men *do* have the possibility of having full control over a pregnancy.

You'd have to literally rape a man (which is already illegal) to relieve him from any responsability of an unwanted pregnancy.

 

If they are not careful, women must undergo physical changes and be faced with the choice of either having a baby or having an abortion.

If they are not careful, men risk having to pay child support and have to accept whatever the woman decides to do with her body.

It actually sounds quite balanced to me.

clv0116 Established Member

clv0116

Posted
Posted
I disagree with the above poster. Nobody should be able to make a woman have a baby she doesn't want. If the woman doesn't want the baby, it gets aborted, end of story. It's harsh, but she's not rent-a-womb, she can't be forced to carry a baby she doesn't want.

 

As long as we're going to make killing a fetus legal (and let's not discuss that, let's just assume we're allowing it) I think anyone forcing a woman to go to term is wrong. Personally I think abortion is wrong too, but I don't care what other people do to their kids frankly.

clv0116 Established Member

clv0116

Posted
Posted
Only then would I consider the whole process fair, but that is never going to happen. I honestly don't like the status quo but someone has to be in charge and ultimately decide. Giving the woman the last say is terribly unfair for the man, but the alternative (letting the man decide) is probably even worse, especially if guys could avoid responsibilty (and child support) that easily.

 

I don't see how allowing men to opt out and let the woman know up front she's not getting any help would be less fair or worse than the current situation.

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