lora22 Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 What triggered my thought that she might have BPD was the always/never thinking and accusations you described. Also, the fact that it seems that you can do no right in her eyes is very problematic. She doesn't want to be alone but she doesn't want you to go hang out with your friends, etc. She displays rampant impulsivity. Her anger can be uncontrollable. BPDs can't see grey, their world is black and white, usually due to some kind of early abuse in their life. Please look out for yourself no matter what. Emotional abuse is emotional abuse, period. Just to add to that, the first paragraph here is exactly what my therapist said to me about my bf (it was a suggestion of one possibility) - THEN she said something along the lines of, but it doesn't matter what his issue is - because I was the one seeking help, NOT him. Whatever he had going on wasn't the issue, or a reason to stay, because: EMOTIONAL ABUSE IS EMOTIONAL ABUSE, PERIOD. If I have more time later I'll post more. Also, one poster suggested that you threaten to leave if this happens again, then follow through and make her win you back. This could be good advice or something to try in some situations. But I just want to point out that in situations of emotional abuse, that is futile and it won't work. At the most it will extend the "honeymoon" period of your gf's cycle. Don't know exactly how your gf operates, but most likely doing so would make things worse - for my bf next time he was mad, the leaving would come up again.
Surfer Dude Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 Woggle is correct. When sh*t really hits the fan, just say "I'm not going to tolerate your disrespectful and completely unacceptable behavior" and leave the house. Freeze her out for a week or two. But you'd be better off dumping her and spending time with more respectful women.
Cherry Blossom 35 Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 You know, I really hate that label "BPD". While I think there are some people who truly are Borderline, (I have a former friend who is a classic), I also think that for many young women this is a stage in life where they are having difficulty growing into adulthood. I know several women, including myself, who exhibited these "symptoms" as younger people but who now would never be described as such. I was like your gf when I was in my early 20's. I found life to be very difficult to handle for a variety of reasons. Abuse in my own past, chemical imbalances, and a seemingly inability to form my own identity. I had a really rough time and it took a lot of work to move past it. Years of work through therapy, and most of all, just living life and putting some successes in my basket. Would someone have labeled me "BPD" at the time? Maybe some therapist did, I have no idea. The important thing is that I am no longer that person. I am stable and have a good head on my shoulders. If you met me today you would find it difficult to believe how I was early on. The only holdover is that darned fear of abandonment, but I only have brief episodes every once in a while, and I bounce back pretty quickly. I also had a bf who was probably somewhat codependant. I would get very upset very easily and I'm sure it couldn't have been easy for him. Now the real issue here is what are you going to do that is best for you. Your gf does have a problem, and if she wants to advance in life she will face it. She CAN get over it. I hate when people say that once a person is a certain way they can never change. It is possible. However, she must not only want to change, but she must make a concerted effort. You may want to have a talk with her when she is in a better mood and tell her your concerns. If I were you, I wouldn't continue the RL unless she admits to a problem and commits to getting help. Then, she MUST follow through, or you are out. Woggle had a good suggestion, too. Maybe you could take a couple of weeks off, so to speak, if she rages again. You must draw a line. Good luck. Take care of yourself first.
Author perryellis Posted July 3, 2009 Author Posted July 3, 2009 Thanks again guys! I can see the similarities between her behaivor and BPD symptoms. I can also see how it might be immaturity. I have often felt that might be the reason for her behaivor. Maybe one day she will grow out of it. But like someone else said, emotional abuse is emotional abuse...I will ask her to seek professional help... and I will seek some myself I just cant help but second guess myself... what if I'm just overreacting? what if I'm the problem not her? What if I leave and its the biggest mistake of my life? I don't feel sure of anything... Perhaps that is the reason I need professional help. I just cant help but feeling that my situation is not important enough or serious enough to require therapy. In my mind the people who go to therapy are much worse of than me... maybe thats just denial Anyone know a good therapist in LA for either my gf or me?
lora22 Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 I just cant help but second guess myself... what if I'm just overreacting? what if I'm the problem not her? What if I leave and its the biggest mistake of my life? I don't feel sure of anything... Perhaps that is the reason I need professional help. Yes it certainly is one reason. Second guessing yourself and so on is one of the dynamics of an emotional abusive relationship. If you do some more reading (or talk to a therapist) you'll see that this is the case. Just a note on websites about emotional abuse - the quality of info varies greatly; you have to skim and peruse many to find the good ones. I just cant help but feeling that my situation is not important enough or serious enough to require therapy. In my mind the people who go to therapy are much worse of than me... maybe thats just denial It sounds like you need help working through things. A therapist is most equipped to help you with this. Anyone know a good therapist in LA for either my gf or me? Can't help you with this, but a referral from someone you know and trust is the best way to go. Ask your physician, a teacher or professor, etc. Do not excuse her behavior by assuming that she's immature - her behavior is not OK, and you absolutely should not count on her to just grow up one day and start acting like a normal, healthy, emotionally stable adult who is magically all of a sudden capable of having a normal, healthy, emotionally stable relationship with another person. You both need help, IMO. However, SHE is not your problem - as others have said she has to want to change. Fixing her isn't your problem. YOU need to put YOU FIRST. I wish I had more time to respond.
lora22 Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 One other thing, going back to her wanting to change - she really, REALLY has to want it. She has to perceive that she has a very real problem, she has to voluntarily seek help, and she has to actually INTERNALIZE what she learns about herself, healthy relationships, etc. I can pull out several examples of this, but the most extreme and dramatic example from my personal experience is my near the end of my relationship when my ex was charged with assault, battery, and a few other things (not against me), was ordered by the court to do certain things (like alcohol abuse counseling and anger management), and instead of being charged and found guilty being a wake up call for him and him actually trying to change, he thought, Well that's total bs, I don't have a problem. And he fought to get his sentence reduced (counseling-wise), then worked really hard to find centers and therapists who would let him just fill out a few packets before signing off on his case.
Surfer Dude Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 OP, I still don't know why you don't dump this disrespectful chick and replace her with a loving, caring great girl? Are you afraid that you won't be able to find a new partner with better qualities? Nothing could be further from the truth!
carhill Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 He's emotionally attached to her. It's possible he has a pattern of this. If so, it will make the process of disconnection even more difficult. In that case, I would recommend therapy. It sure helped me. He possesses admirable and desirable qualities and therapy will help him direct them in a healthier way, as well as process his GF's anger in a different way, cognitively rather than emotionally. This will help with detachment. Visualizing his boundaries.
loveslife Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 Perryellis, the fact that you feel so compelled to try and fix her is enough reason to believe that you need help. A healthy person would not be able to exist in this relationship.
westernxer Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 I don't see this situation getting any better. Get some help for both of you or get out.
samsungxoxo Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 I don't see why is a woman given excuses for horrible behavior. Who cares about menstrual cycle moody periods or borderline disorder. The fact is that she's disrespecting him, using him as a doormat and by trying to fix, he is sending her the message that she can do whatever she wants to because he will always put up with it. I get the feeling that if it was a woman posting about her man acting like this, many of you would jump into the man and tell the lady to dump him as fast as a hot potato. This is emotional/verbal abuse by the way. Screw the period and/or borderline disorder issue. If she has that, then she would get help and quit disrespecting the OP. Tell her to get help or dump her. Give her an ultimatum.
Author perryellis Posted July 3, 2009 Author Posted July 3, 2009 OP, I still don't know why you don't dump this disrespectful chick and replace her with a loving, caring great girl? Are you afraid that you won't be able to find a new partner with better qualities? Nothing could be further from the truth! Because I feel she is loving and caring 99 % of the time. Then she has the rages every once in a while (every month or other month)... in my mind I have been justifying staying with her because of the 99%... but I am starting to realize that even that 1 % can be enough reason to leave... I know of people who have left relationships because they were not sexually compatable with their parter... and surely sex can only be a very small percentage of the time any couple spends together. Also, what the next poster said is true. I am very emotionally attached to her... I love her a lot. Lora22, she has admitted to me before that she has a problem, and she even asked once if I thought she should go to a therapist. I told her I wasn't sure if she should... I didnt want my gf to feel like she was crazy because she was going to a therapist... I didn't want her to feel "broken".. I know its stupid reason... probably has something to do with codependancy right? I will push for her to see one now. It would be good for me to go too. One thing I'm worried about is cost. I read online that it is $100-$150 per hour... and I have a situation with my insurance right now, so I wont get help from it. Thanks again everyone!
Author perryellis Posted July 3, 2009 Author Posted July 3, 2009 I don't see why is a woman given excuses for horrible behavior. Who cares about menstrual cycle moody periods or borderline disorder. The fact is that she's disrespecting him, using him as a doormat and by trying to fix, he is sending her the message that she can do whatever she wants to because he will always put up with it. I get the feeling that if it was a woman posting about her man acting like this, many of you would jump into the man and tell the lady to dump him as fast as a hot potato. This is emotional/verbal abuse by the way. Screw the period and/or borderline disorder issue. If she has that, then she would get help and quit disrespecting the OP. Tell her to get help or dump her. Give her an ultimatum. I see your point... but the reality is, life is different for men and women... for instance, my gf sometimes will punch me, thinking that I'm a man and can handle it. Although, it doesn't hurt much, it is still disrespectful, and I let her know that. However, if it was the other way around I'd probably have been arrested by now, or atleast seen by everyone in the world as the scum of the earth. But it isn't a big deal because we play around physically a lot... horseplay, most of the time its in good fun... and we never set up a good boundary on when its ok to horseplay when were having fun, and when its not ok to hit when ur upset. Also, she its not like I am always her doormat or constantly being disrespected.. if that were true I'd be gone in a heartbeat... again its like I said only a small percentage of the time... but its still wrong, I know If she doesn't agree to getting help, which I think she will, I will be gone.
Els Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 Perryellis, I don't think you're being a doormat, personally. This: 'If she doesn't agree to getting help, which I think she will, I will be gone. ' is a very good principle to follow. Everyone has problems, and I think a true partner is one who tries to help the other person get through theirs. Of course, this only applies if the other person acknowledges it and tries to get through it. You did mention that she regrets her behaviour after she returns to a more rational state -- well now it remains to be seen whether or not she'll agree that it's serious enough that she needs to try and fix it with the help of others. And PMS is real, it's not just an excuse. It affects some women more than others. It turns yet others into raging screaming bitches just during that week or so, whereas they're normally perfect angels. By the way, perryellis, it starts 2 weeks before the period, not just before. I agree that noone SHOULD need to put up with this all their lives regardless, and thus both parties should work together to try and fix it before just saying 'she's being disrespectful, dump her like a hot potato'.
kizik Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 As someone who was a victim to an emotional abuser in my last relationship, I completely agree with the awesome insights and advice people are giving you here, Perryellis. Listen, you have a good head on your shoulders, you're smart, caring, kind - it's just that your heart and your head are in different places. Objectively you can see how mean and cruel she is (at least that "1% of the time"), but you love her. Well, here's the thing: love can be found in a variety of people and places, and it is a mistake (albeit an understandable one) to think you'll never find love again. You'll find it. And when you do, I think you'll realize that this thing right now is not love. You can't love someone when they strike fear and anxiety into your heart. Not real love. Not respect, admiration, and trust. You can't trust her. That is the issue. Stick to your guns. You have said you are very, very fearful of being alone. Buddy, let me tell you from personal experience that I would rather be alone every day than spend it with the mean, vindictive, immature, narcissistic little bitch that my ex is. Being alone is only scary until it becomes a reality. You need to be alone right now, if only to work through your codependency issues with a therapist. Best of luck. Josh
paddington bear Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 I agree with the previous posters who said you're in an emotionally abusive relationship. All the red flags were there in your original post. A (former) good friend of mine is right now in an emotionally abusive relationship. He had said to me all the things that you have said about his ex (who has now sucked him back in) that she was great most of the time, but that the arguments were driving him crazy and so on. I'd never really met her, and he was being fair but also complaining a little about the arguments etc. in fact, like you, he was constantly questioning himself and saying things like 'I treated her like crap' and 'it's my fault' so that I started to believe him, that he was the bad guy in the situation. So it never occurred to me that she was as bad as she is, until I met her...and when I did meet her I realised that she has basically brainwashed him into thinking that he is a bad person, that all her problems are his fault, that he needs to constantly run around like her slave. I've seen him humiliated in public, blamed, guilt-tripped, made feel bad for being talented, her screaming at him if he dared to contradict her over even the slightest most minor thing and along with that she has aliented me and all his other friends from his life because she is such a nightmare, so that he has no opinion other than hers going into his brain day after day after day. Like you he said to me once 'I think people can change, she can change'. She IS NOT going to change. Why should she? She has him exactly where she wants him, emotionally trapped, addicted to the good times and putting up with the bad times in order to get the good times back, and yes, I've realised that there is something really, really wrong with him and how he thinks of himself if he allows someone to treat him like that, and constantly defends her behaviour 'she was only joking' 'it's just that she's...' 'she needs to work on her communication skills' and so on. He just does not, for whatever reason want to see the reality. What happened was that when she came into my life I thought she was a bit eccentric, but actually rather sweet until she started to very quickly do the same things to me as she was doing to her ex (who she wanted back...another BPD symptom is the BPD sufferer will do ANYTHING to keep their partner there, will stop at nothing to prevent them leaving). So simultaneously I was watching how she treated him and was appalled and then was subjected to the same behaviour myself. Like the cycle of abuse chart on the link that Lora posted this woman was super sweet, intelligent, funny, kind...then when stressed or upset she would snap at me, blame me, tried to manipulate me, guilt-tripped me and so on. She made me feel so guilty for being good friends with her ex, so much so that I pulled further and further back from him, thus leaving him feeling like I didn't like him any more and had rejected him, when in fact I was rejecting her as she's now got him totally under her control and I can't get to see or speak to him without her any more. I was just so shocked that someone that I barely knew would do this to me and I got so angry over it and yet she was so manipulative and convincing - never apologising mind you, always it was my fault, I was emotional, I was the one who had problems. And you think, gosh, maybe she's right and you question yourself, your motives, your actions...she however has not and will not ever question hers. As someone mentioned above, it is total black and white in her world. She is always right and the problems and stress that she creates for others are always their own fault, and her own problems and choices are always someone else's fault too. I pulled her up on one particular incident in a rational, fair and calm way, being genuine and she simply went crazy, attacked me, twisted everything I said and simply lied about what she'd done, thus making me think I was going crazy, did I misread the situation? maybe I'm the bad person here and so on. Bearing in mind this was all within 2 months of getting to know her. I forgave her, and tried to mend fences, and she was all sweet and nice again, but this time I was on edge, mistrusting and was walking on eggshells waiting for the next outburst, guilt-trip, being blamed for something that wasn't my fault. And sure enough it happened again and this time I thought no more, this will be a never-ending cycle, she'll mistreat me, try to use me, I'll get angry, she'll tell me I'm over-reacting and buy a little gift, and I'll stupidly think ok from now on things will be fine, but then it will just happen the same way over and over again. I ended up going to therapy over this woman, I barely knew her and she made my life an utter, living hell of emotional turmoil and confusion. Therapist said she had classic BPD symptoms. I've now had to totally cut her out of my life causing much stress and other horrible side effects by doing that (the loss of my friend who she is abusing). The way I've looked at this is that I have to protect myself from her and the only way to do that is to remove myself totally and utterly from her. I will not look at her abusive/persuasive/normal emails, answer any more calls text messages, nothing. I am not a strong enough person to deal with someone like her and I know for sure if I even relent for one minute, trying to be kind or fair or thinking I've misjudged her, that I'll just be sucked back in again and will be so annoyed with myself for being so stupid. I hate people being angry with me, hate confrontations and all my other relationships with my good friends have not included being guilt-tripped, blamed and made feel on edge all the time. You are right to say that 1% of the time is too much, again as someone else mentioned, it's not the 1%, it's that and the other 99% waiting for that 1% to come round again. I've noticed from your previous posts that you are trying to change yourself, questioning yourself and also wanting to change her. People will not change unless they want to. Even if they want to, really want to, it sometimes just doesn't work. All I can say is that normal, healthy relationships are not like this. Sure people have arguments, but getting called names, threats to leave (repeatedly), irrational responses to small things and the other things you mentioned none of that is normal and you are right to be questioning it. You sound like a sensitive person. The person you love should not leave you in tears when you have an argument with the nasty things they say. Those nasty things worm their way into your head until you start to believe that maybe they are true somehow. I know you want to only see the good side of her, and you sound like a nice guy, who's kind and trying to do the right thing, but seriously all of us deserve to be treated with respect - all of the time, not most of the time. I know you don't want to simply pack up and leave, but honestly I think that is what you ultimately may have to do. Going to therapy will not change her, the woman mentioned above has been to numerous therapists over the years and is still as irrational as ever. Sometimes you just have to, with regret, walk away. However if you do, get yourself to a therapist to figure out why you think you deserve this kind of treatment, otherwise you'll just find yet another woman who treats you in the same way, as that is now what you seem to think is normal. Wishing you the best of luck - here's another link, you should read this book: http://www.thatbitchbook.com/
kizik Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 OP, really read what Paddington Bear has written here. He/she has perfectly described the hell that is dealing with a malignant narcissist. They are evil, cunning beings who INTENTIONALLY f*ck with your head in order to regain power and control. I agree with the previous posters who said you're in an emotionally abusive relationship. All the red flags were there in your original post. A (former) good friend of mine is right now in an emotionally abusive relationship. He had said to me all the things that you have said about his ex (who has now sucked him back in) that she was great most of the time, but that the arguments were driving him crazy and so on. I'd never really met her, and he was being fair but also complaining a little about the arguments etc. in fact, like you, he was constantly questioning himself and saying things like 'I treated her like crap' and 'it's my fault' so that I started to believe him, that he was the bad guy in the situation. So it never occurred to me that she was as bad as she is, until I met her...and when I did meet her I realised that she has basically brainwashed him into thinking that he is a bad person, that all her problems are his fault, that he needs to constantly run around like her slave. I've seen him humiliated in public, blamed, guilt-tripped, made feel bad for being talented, her screaming at him if he dared to contradict her over even the slightest most minor thing and along with that she has aliented me and all his other friends from his life because she is such a nightmare, so that he has no opinion other than hers going into his brain day after day after day. Like you he said to me once 'I think people can change, she can change'. She IS NOT going to change. Why should she? She has him exactly where she wants him, emotionally trapped, addicted to the good times and putting up with the bad times in order to get the good times back, and yes, I've realised that there is something really, really wrong with him and how he thinks of himself if he allows someone to treat him like that, and constantly defends her behaviour 'she was only joking' 'it's just that she's...' 'she needs to work on her communication skills' and so on. He just does not, for whatever reason want to see the reality. What happened was that when she came into my life I thought she was a bit eccentric, but actually rather sweet until she started to very quickly do the same things to me as she was doing to her ex (who she wanted back...another BPD symptom is the BPD sufferer will do ANYTHING to keep their partner there, will stop at nothing to prevent them leaving). So simultaneously I was watching how she treated him and was appalled and then was subjected to the same behaviour myself. Like the cycle of abuse chart on the link that Lora posted this woman was super sweet, intelligent, funny, kind...then when stressed or upset she would snap at me, blame me, tried to manipulate me, guilt-tripped me and so on. She made me feel so guilty for being good friends with her ex, so much so that I pulled further and further back from him, thus leaving him feeling like I didn't like him any more and had rejected him, when in fact I was rejecting her as she's now got him totally under her control and I can't get to see or speak to him without her any more. I was just so shocked that someone that I barely knew would do this to me and I got so angry over it and yet she was so manipulative and convincing - never apologising mind you, always it was my fault, I was emotional, I was the one who had problems. And you think, gosh, maybe she's right and you question yourself, your motives, your actions...she however has not and will not ever question hers. As someone mentioned above, it is total black and white in her world. She is always right and the problems and stress that she creates for others are always their own fault, and her own problems and choices are always someone else's fault too. I pulled her up on one particular incident in a rational, fair and calm way, being genuine and she simply went crazy, attacked me, twisted everything I said and simply lied about what she'd done, thus making me think I was going crazy, did I misread the situation? maybe I'm the bad person here and so on. Bearing in mind this was all within 2 months of getting to know her. I forgave her, and tried to mend fences, and she was all sweet and nice again, but this time I was on edge, mistrusting and was walking on eggshells waiting for the next outburst, guilt-trip, being blamed for something that wasn't my fault. And sure enough it happened again and this time I thought no more, this will be a never-ending cycle, she'll mistreat me, try to use me, I'll get angry, she'll tell me I'm over-reacting and buy a little gift, and I'll stupidly think ok from now on things will be fine, but then it will just happen the same way over and over again. I ended up going to therapy over this woman, I barely knew her and she made my life an utter, living hell of emotional turmoil and confusion. Therapist said she had classic BPD symptoms. I've now had to totally cut her out of my life causing much stress and other horrible side effects by doing that (the loss of my friend who she is abusing). The way I've looked at this is that I have to protect myself from her and the only way to do that is to remove myself totally and utterly from her. I will not look at her abusive/persuasive/normal emails, answer any more calls text messages, nothing. I am not a strong enough person to deal with someone like her and I know for sure if I even relent for one minute, trying to be kind or fair or thinking I've misjudged her, that I'll just be sucked back in again and will be so annoyed with myself for being so stupid. I hate people being angry with me, hate confrontations and all my other relationships with my good friends have not included being guilt-tripped, blamed and made feel on edge all the time. You are right to say that 1% of the time is too much, again as someone else mentioned, it's not the 1%, it's that and the other 99% waiting for that 1% to come round again. I've noticed from your previous posts that you are trying to change yourself, questioning yourself and also wanting to change her. People will not change unless they want to. Even if they want to, really want to, it sometimes just doesn't work. All I can say is that normal, healthy relationships are not like this. Sure people have arguments, but getting called names, threats to leave (repeatedly), irrational responses to small things and the other things you mentioned none of that is normal and you are right to be questioning it. You sound like a sensitive person. The person you love should not leave you in tears when you have an argument with the nasty things they say. Those nasty things worm their way into your head until you start to believe that maybe they are true somehow. I know you want to only see the good side of her, and you sound like a nice guy, who's kind and trying to do the right thing, but seriously all of us deserve to be treated with respect - all of the time, not most of the time. I know you don't want to simply pack up and leave, but honestly I think that is what you ultimately may have to do. Going to therapy will not change her, the woman mentioned above has been to numerous therapists over the years and is still as irrational as ever. Sometimes you just have to, with regret, walk away. However if you do, get yourself to a therapist to figure out why you think you deserve this kind of treatment, otherwise you'll just find yet another woman who treats you in the same way, as that is now what you seem to think is normal. Wishing you the best of luck - here's another link, you should read this book: http://www.thatbitchbook.com/ Another link: http://narcissists-suck.blogspot.com/ The BEST site for understanding what you're dealing with.
Author perryellis Posted July 3, 2009 Author Posted July 3, 2009 Thank you Kizik and Paddington Bear for the links and the words of advice. As soon as I get home, I'm really gonna dig into those links and read your posts again. The only immediate difference I see from my relationship and the one you described, Paddington Bear, is that I honestly don't feel like I'm walking on eggshells all the time.. Only right as a big argument is starting. That 99% of the time when things are good, I am not really on eggshells to be honest. Atleast I dont think I am... maybe I need to take a deeper look into my own feelings, but I do feel happy most of the time.
sugarmomma Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 Here is why I think I may be... and I'm not sure if this even falls under the catagory of codependancy, but when my gf is not happy it usually makes me unhappy... and vice versa. Yes this is typical behavior. You are codependent. You are enmenshed and can't separate your feelings from one another. Very emotionally dependent. This is where you depend on another person for most you your feelings good and bad. I used to threaten my xh all the time with a breakup and he would get terrified just like you. It wa so wrong and he should have broken up with me the first time I threatened to do that to him. He had no boundaries with me and I had none with him. You need to break up with her and work on your codependent issues. Your fear of being alone/abandoned is disturbing.
paddington bear Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 Thank you Kizik and Paddington Bear for the links and the words of advice. As soon as I get home, I'm really gonna dig into those links and read your posts again. The only immediate difference I see from my relationship and the one you described, Paddington Bear, is that I honestly don't feel like I'm walking on eggshells all the time.. Only right as a big argument is starting. That 99% of the time when things are good, I am not really on eggshells to be honest. Atleast I dont think I am... maybe I need to take a deeper look into my own feelings, but I do feel happy most of the time. I think...unfortunately for me, I got one of the worst types of dysfunctional people brought into my life, her behaviour is extreme to a unbelievable degree. But even if you cut her behaviour by half, it would still not be acceptable, to me anyway. I mean, I think my violent reaction to her and to being controlled by someone is that I was in a relationship with a guy who was quite controlling, now that I think of it, constant threats to leave, violent temper tantrums over something I could never understand, and like you I was so, sooooo scared he would leave that I put up with all the craziness. I was madly in love with him. Eventually, it got too much for me and I left. I'm thinking, for myself here as well, and with the other scenario with that woman that I mentioned, that my problem is that I don't put up firm boundaries immediately. I allow line after line after line to be crossed until things reach crisis level and only then do I leave. What I've learned from both scenarios is that had I on the first (or, ok to be fair, second occassion) of this behaviour to put my foot down and say that I was not putting up with it, and mean it. Actually I did put my foot down with her, but she just totally disregarded it and continued to try to use and manipulate me as if I hadn't said anything at all...hence my theory to simply surgically remove her from my life. Only you know yourself to what degree your girlfriend is upsetting you, just don't make the mistake of putting on those rose-tinted glasses all the time and excusing the behaviour, and do not marry her unless there has been some genuine move on her part to solve her anger issues, and that you see a progression with that, otherwise, it will get worse. I hate to say it, but it will increase over time.
kizik Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 do not marry her unless there has been some genuine move on her part to solve her anger issues, and that you see a progression with that, otherwise, it will get worse. I hate to say it, but it will increase over time. Oh no, he can't marry her. His life would be OVER. He's lucky right now, he can still escape relatively unscathed. You're right, it will get worse and worse and worse until he hates himself. Malignant narcissists are dangerous people, so much so that they threaten the emotional and physical safety of those around them. They can make you so unhappy with yourself that you want to commit suicide. This is what I mean. There is no other option than, as you say, a surgical removal of sorts. No F*cking Contact. Because if you give these people an inch, they will stretch and twist and lie and manipulate it into a mile.
Land Shark Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 She has difficulty apologizing and isn't appalled by her behavior herself. In fact, it seems like the only reason it's a problem to her is because you hassle her about it. She isn't taking the initiative to address it herself. Promising you that it won't happen again is enough to get by. All evidence that she really doesn't think it's all that bad. And that leads me to think that she grew up in a house with angry people. If it was hormonal, she'd be shocked by her own behavior and looking for treatment to get it fixed. It's not. It's in her personality. You won't fix this by complaining. You may not be able to do anything at all about it. She may not be able to either, but she certainly won't bother to try until it affects relationships she cares about in a serious way. You begging her to apologize and accepting empty promises is not serious.
lora22 Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 Thank you Kizik and Paddington Bear for the links and the words of advice. As soon as I get home, I'm really gonna dig into those links and read your posts again. The only immediate difference I see from my relationship and the one you described, Paddington Bear, is that I honestly don't feel like I'm walking on eggshells all the time.. Only right as a big argument is starting. That 99% of the time when things are good, I am not really on eggshells to be honest. Atleast I dont think I am... maybe I need to take a deeper look into my own feelings, but I do feel happy most of the time. Yes, thanks Paddington and Kizik Perryellis, please do examine your feelings more closely. I started out that way too, where for the most part I thought I was "happy" except for the times right around an incident. At first I simply learned to recognize the signs/cues I was getting from my bf that an incident was fast approaching, and when I started seeing those signs, started walking on eggshells. Then that also turned into me being able to predict what types of things I might do or say (really many of them are out of my own control, and I shouldn't have avoid anyways - such as socializing with my girl friends) that would spark an incident - and often it can be anything and everything, and eventually you learn to keep that in mind also. That's when I realized that I was in fact ALWAYS waiting for the other shoe to drop - but it was a very gradual process for me to realize this. A couple of times near the end I thought I had reached my breaking point and that I was finally done for good. Went back to him every time. Finally, the last time I left him, he had done something that even I was like, no f'n way can you treat me like that, I am done. I spent the night at a friend's house. Returned the next morning to get my things - I was leaving. And guess who had decided to work from home that day so he could wait for me to "come to my senses" or whatever. He started out by continuing the abuse from the night before - I didn't say a word in response, just kept packing my things. So then he changed his tactic and started apologizing, and "I know it's not right to treat you that way I won't do it again" bs, and all but begging me to forgive him. He even bribed me (this often happens in these situations - in this case offering to take me away for a long holiday weekend just the two of us blah blah blah) - and even though at this point I was so absolutely DONE - I simply couldn't handle anymore - I WAS ACTUALLY STARTING TO THINK ABOUT IT - because it was EASIER to stay and continue the cycle than to leave. I realized that I was actually AFRAID to stick to my "no" because I knew what was coming if I did. For me, that was finally the moment and realization I needed to leave and (for the most part) not look back. I still did therapy to help me "fix" myself. Then I went through a long period where I had no room in my life for guys or relationships because I needed to work on me, and honestly I was so over the emotional rollercoaster ("I'm an addict for dramatics, I confuse the two for love" anyone?) that I just wanted to be alone. And of course now I realize what a normal healthy relationship is, and that it isn't like THAT. Anyways, just typed this really fast, not proofing it, so I hope it makes sense - I'm sure it will to others who are aware that they have been in this situation.
paddington bear Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 Oh no, he can't marry her. His life would be OVER. He's lucky right now, he can still escape relatively unscathed. You're right, it will get worse and worse and worse until he hates himself. Malignant narcissists are dangerous people, so much so that they threaten the emotional and physical safety of those around them. They can make you so unhappy with yourself that you want to commit suicide. This is what I mean. There is no other option than, as you say, a surgical removal of sorts. No F*cking Contact. Because if you give these people an inch, they will stretch and twist and lie and manipulate it into a mile. Agreed. In that book 'That Bitch' one man who was in a bad emotionally abusive relationship said he felt so sorry for his girlfriend, that she'd gone through a really hard time, that her last boyfriend had committed suicide. It took a while for the penny to drop for the current boyfriend...why had her last boyfriend committed suicide...because she'd made his life a living hell perhaps, when he put two and two together, he left. Again, I'm not saying that the OP's girlfriend is that bad, however, all the warning signs are there that there is something not right with how his girlfriend treats him. I repeat again what someone else said, that the OP is teaching her that she can do the same thing over and over again, because he's always caved in to her - there's no shame in it, I've done it myself, it's because you're human and you're in love. My therapist said something interesting to me, basically 'people fall in love with the wrong people all the time. You can't blame yourself for falling for someone who doesn't want you back/is not right for you. It is not something that you can control'. I think this is the issue here, the OP is deeply in love and those loved-up feelings really distort the reality of the situation. It's only when you can get some distance and see things without that person's presence altering your views or new stance, can things become clearer. It certainly helped me figure out if I was going crazy or if there was something really really wrong going on here. The key thing mentioned in this book is that emotional abuse happens to nice people, people who are fair, try not to judge, try to understand, that niceness is used against them and taken advantage of by someone who sees niceness and kindness as a form of weakness. And Kizik, I agree as well with the 'if you give an inch, they take a mile'. That exact thing has happened to me, you agree to one small thing, they see their chance and BAM! Next minute you're being corralled and brow-beaten into doing something you don't want to do.
kizik Posted July 3, 2009 Posted July 3, 2009 He started out by continuing the abuse from the night before - I didn't say a word in response, just kept packing my things. So then he changed his tactic and started apologizing, and "I know it's not right to treat you that way I won't do it again" bs, and all but begging me to forgive him. He even bribed me (this often happens in these situations - in this case offering to take me away for a long holiday weekend just the two of us blah blah blah) - and even though at this point I was so absolutely DONE - I simply couldn't handle anymore - I WAS ACTUALLY STARTING TO THINK ABOUT IT - because it was EASIER to stay and continue the cycle than to leave. I realized that I was actually AFRAID to stick to my "no" because I knew what was coming if I did. For me, that was finally the moment and realization I needed to leave and (for the most part) not look back. Thanks for sharing that, Lora. IMO, there's usually a breaking point, like Lora's story, when the abuser's victim (me, in this case) says, "Enough." For me, it occurred during a conversation R. and I had the day after we had dinner with her parents. Now, FYI, her parents had always liked me. They'd known me since I was a kid and thought I was a pretty cool dude. R.: "You were so rude to my parents last night." Me: "Huh? We had a great time!" R.: "You didn't talk enough. You just sat there." Me: "What are you talking about?" Ok, so this turned into a two-hour conversation about how I was a bad person who not only was rude, but couldn't remember basic facts. And of course this was because I had been a weed-smoker. Nevermind the fact that at the time of this argument, I had been clean and sober for two years. These people will twist your words and make you doubt everything about yourself. Imagine a clever defense lawyer cross-examining a witness. "Did you REALLY see my client stab his wife? Didn't you have your glasses off? Haven't you been disturbed ever since your son died? Didn't you get arrested in 1976 for theft?" And on and on. All of this to deflect the fact that the f*cking guy killed his f*cking wife. Anyway - enough of my tangent. Um, yeah - there's always a breaking point.
Recommended Posts