Aquarius Rising Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Hi LS forum I have agreed to meet MM tomorrow for lunch. Last week I told him that I need him to give me a straight answer. i.e. if he knows that he will NEVER leave his wife then he has to tell me that straight, to my face and set me free. I'll be honest ...... I'm scared ****LESS of what might happen tomorrow e.g. once in his presence I fall under his spell I allow him to convince me once again just to be patient and wait and see what happens down the track.... dangling that little carrot of hope again. He returns to his home country with his W and child to reunite with his other two children and will be away for a month, before returning here for a 6mth business commitment. I want to have a set of questions that he has to give straight answers to so that he cannot manipulate me into remaining where I am to serve his interests. He KNOWS damn well that I am in love with him! and ........ he has the gift of the gab ....... I'm challenged BIGTIME by him and I consider myself a pretty straight shooter... What do I need to be asking him ...... EXACTLY! Any ideas? AND I can tell you what responses he is likely to give ........ then what? Sorry LS .... I just really want to have my wits about me tomorrow. AR
hoping2heal Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 If you know you are likely to fall back under his spell, why even put yourself in the position in the first place? The way I see it, if you're trully done with this person, there is no need for meetings, or lunches, or chitter chatter. Sometimes people are bad for us, we need to stay away from them for valid reasons. Sometimes being strong isn't walking away from them in a moment of weakness, but rather guarding ourselves from walking into moments that make us weak. So really, WHY are you still meeting with this man? Please don't say, so you can have your questions answered. Even if you DO get them answered (which sounds like you already know that isn't likely to happen) what does that change? This man is looking for someone to twist and turn like a pretzel under his prowess. Why do that to yourself?
Lyssa Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 If you know you are likely to fall back under his spell, why even put yourself in the position in the first place? The way I see it, if you're trully done with this person, there is no need for meetings, or lunches, or chitter chatter. Sometimes people are bad for us, we need to stay away from them for valid reasons. Sometimes being strong isn't walking away from them in a moment of weakness, but rather guarding ourselves from walking into moments that make us weak. So really, WHY are you still meeting with this man? I agree with you H2H but there's nothing we can do if OP decided to see MM. Maybe for AR, meeting MM is some form of closure?
hoping2heal Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 I understand there is nothing we can do. I hope she realises she's setting herself up, that is all.
jj33 Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Aquarius this is all wrong and you know it. There is NOTHING you can ask him that will get the truth from him. So what if he says hang in there and lets see what happens. Why should you? For what? The sun will rise and the sun will set. Boring.... If you want to tell him the A is over then go. But otherwise what is there to say. He is going away for 2 months with his W. Then he is coming back for business. When he gets back and he contacts you, you can simply tell him you dont want to be the OW anymore. Its really that easy. If he were leaving he would tell you so.
Author Aquarius Rising Posted June 29, 2009 Author Posted June 29, 2009 I understand there is nothing we can do. I hope she realises she's setting herself up, that is all. Well, I was the one who asked him to tell me straight about his intentions. He asked if we could meet in person to do that so I don't feel as though I can really refuse him as I initiated things. My questions are pretty much the same ones I have had all along: Can you see us being together eventually in a real and public relationship? And if so, when do you imagine that happening? His answers are likely to be Yes, I can see us together and I can see that we would be happy, yes, I can picture a life with you, BUT My daughter is still quite young and I can't see that happening in the near future......... I don't expect him to say ANYTHING different tomorrow.... I am the one who needs to be DIFFERENT i.e. 'That's is clearly not going to bring me happiness, I deserve more than that, and although I am very much in love with you. Quoting the words of another member here??? I will give up what I desire ... for that which I love (me)! But I might say that .......... I just never end up meaning it ........ nothing ever seems to change??????? I know, it's me, isn't it! AR
jj33 Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Yes it is you. Only you can control you. Dont take that line that you will fall under his spell. That is a cop out. You have the power to tell him no, this isnt working for you. You want out. He looks after his interests. You need to look after yours.
Lyssa Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Yes, I can see us together and I can see that we would be happy, yes, I can picture a life with you, BUT My daughter is still quite young and I can't see that happening in the near future......... See... there's the BUT - you know there will always be a BUT! Doesn't that tell you something already, AR? Perhaps you can tell him to come and see you when he has his signed divorced papers in hand.
hoping2heal Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Yes it is you. Only you can control you. Dont take that line that you will fall under his spell. That is a cop out. You have the power to tell him no, this isnt working for you. You want out. He looks after his interests. You need to look after yours. That's exactly alike. You say "they are the questions I've had all along". I can't be sure, but it almost makes it seem as if you've always wanted an answer but never got a straight one out of him. You want reality to change, it seems. It seems that's the real reason you're going, because you're hoping that somehow you showing up to that lunch will change reality, will make the truth into something different, into something more pleasing and comfortable to you. There's no real reason to go to this lunch, except to pull yourself back into a toxic situation. And you COULD have refused to meet btw, it doesn't matter who's idea it is to meet, he can tell you the answers via phone or email can he not? Yes, precisely. Aquarius, wanting reality to change won't change it. I daresay you are going to that lunch precisely to "fall back under his spell". Then you can blame him for "manipulating" you back into a situation, rendering you powerless and giving yourself a reason to justify putting yourself through more B.S . You can shirk the responsibility onto him all you'd like, but YOU are the one continuing to have meetings with him, when you are not naive but rather FULLY in tune and aware with what effect his gift of gab has on you. You're not an innocent victim falling blindly into a spiders web. You are choosing to intentionally make a bad decision which will harm yourself.
Author Aquarius Rising Posted June 29, 2009 Author Posted June 29, 2009 That's exactly alike. You say "they are the questions I've had all along". I can't be sure, but it almost makes it seem as if you've always wanted an answer but never got a straight one out of him. You want reality to change, it seems. It seems that's the real reason you're going, because you're hoping that somehow you showing up to that lunch will change reality, will make the truth into something different, into something more pleasing and comfortable to you. There's no real reason to go to this lunch, except to pull yourself back into a toxic situation. And you COULD have refused to meet btw, it doesn't matter who's idea it is to meet, he can tell you the answers via phone or email can he not? Yes, precisely. Aquarius, wanting reality to change won't change it. I daresay you are going to that lunch precisely to "fall back under his spell". Then you can blame him for "manipulating" you back into a situation, rendering you powerless and giving yourself a reason to justify putting yourself through more B.S . You can shirk the responsibility onto him all you'd like, but YOU are the one continuing to have meetings with him, when you are not naive but rather FULLY in tune and aware with what effect his gift of gab has on you. You're not an innocent victim falling blindly into a spiders web. You are choosing to intentionally make a bad decision which will harm yourself. Rationally, that makes perfect sense. But why would I and as you state, DO I want to intentionally harm myself? ...... that doesn't make sense to me. I value who I am and what I have to give ... I am not someone of low self-esteem..... OR AM I? AR
jj33 Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 The label doesnt matter. Whether its low self esteem or hoping against hope you are hoping that magically something will have changed and thats why he wants to meet with you. That or you want to hear the lies. Look if he is planning to leave, let him put his money where his mouth is. Let him go through his 6 months or whatever and go home and divorce. If he were really serious, he would have started the process or would start it while he is abroad or something. He wouldnt be saying lets play house while I am home. Stepping back until he has sorted himself out means you lose nothing.
Author Aquarius Rising Posted June 29, 2009 Author Posted June 29, 2009 The label doesnt matter. Whether its low self esteem or hoping against hope you are hoping that magically something will have changed and thats why he wants to meet with you. That or you want to hear the lies. Look if he is planning to leave, let him put his money where his mouth is. Let him go through his 6 months or whatever and go home and divorce. If he were really serious, he would have started the process or would start it while he is abroad or something. He wouldnt be saying lets play house while I am home. Stepping back until he has sorted himself out means you lose nothing. JJ, you know how much I value your wisdom here. What does stepping back LOOK LIKE and how do I make that COMPLETELY clear to him. GOD I wish you could come to tomorrow and be my spokesperson .... God, don't I sound pathetic now!!!! Self esteem, Self esteem, Self esteem
hoping2heal Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Rationally, that makes perfect sense. But why would I and as you state, DO I want to intentionally harm myself? ...... that doesn't make sense to me. I value who I am and what I have to give ... I am not someone of low self-esteem..... OR AM I? AR Sweetheart, take a good look at the threads in this forum. There's a whole slew of women/men involved with people who are married, many a great many who will NEVER have a true relationship with these people who they have allowed to harbor and feed the growth of feelings for. Why would any of these people want to put themselves in a situation to be hurt, when they could have someone available? That's the million dollar question. Personally, I think it usually does have to do with low self esteem, moreover I think the idea of a relationship that will never fully blossom may be the full allure. To women or men who don't have the self worth or belief they can have a functioning relationship, a short term affair full of passion and hearty feelings, without the pressure of being a good partner and having a real relationship may be a miracle "band aid". Because there simply is no good example for why you MUST get involved with a married person. There are plenty of people who form common ground and relationships with single people, it's not as if single people are running in shortage and suddenly the only interesting and intriguing people out there are married. There's really no good excuse for a person causing themselves undue harm by putting themselves in a situation like this.
jasminetea Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Well, I was the one who asked him to tell me straight about his intentions. He asked if we could meet in person to do that so I don't feel as though I can really refuse him as I initiated things. Of course you could refuse to see him in person. You still can, infact. Stepping back means NC until he has a divorce in hand, surely?
Lyssa Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 There's no real reason to go to this lunch, except to pull yourself back into a toxic situation. And you COULD have refused to meet btw, it doesn't matter who's idea it is to meet, he can tell you the answers via phone or email can he not? Yes, precisely. Exactly. You going there would mean giving him the power to reel you in again.
Author Aquarius Rising Posted June 29, 2009 Author Posted June 29, 2009 Exactly. You going there would mean giving him the power to reel you in again. OR Me going could be my chance to stand up and TELL him straight. NO, this is not good enough, NO, I am not going to keep hanging on to false hope, NO, I am better than this and CHANGE the way I normally behave with him. This is a GREAT opportunity to do that, because I have set it up as so. Tell me straight, so I can make the decision to be IN or OUT. I know LS forum, it is all up to me. It has ALWAYS been up to me. Question is CAN I DO IT? Tomorrow will tell. Thanks for all the input ....... it IS appreciated. AR
Lyssa Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 OR Me going could be my chance to stand up and TELL him straight. NO, this is not good enough, NO, I am not going to keep hanging on to false hope, NO, I am better than this and CHANGE the way I normally behave with him. This is a GREAT opportunity to do that, because I have set it up as so. Tell me straight, so I can make the decision to be IN or OUT. I know LS forum, it is all up to me. It has ALWAYS been up to me. Question is CAN I DO IT? Tomorrow will tell. Thanks for all the input ....... it IS appreciated. AR AR, I hope THAT is what you will do tomorrow - tell him NO and that NO means NO. If he tells you straight up that he wants to be with you - you have to give him a time-line. No more stringing you along.
jasminetea Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 OR Me going could be my chance to stand up and TELL him straight. NO, this is not good enough, NO, I am not going to keep hanging on to false hope, NO, I am better than this and CHANGE the way I normally behave with him. This is a GREAT opportunity to do that, because I have set it up as so. Tell me straight, so I can make the decision to be IN or OUT. And what's stopping you TELLING him straight via the phone or email? By going and seeing him, your actions are the exact opposite of what you say you are planning to tell him. You are being no better than you are being treated - i.e. doing what he's asked. Also you are not changing the way you normally behave - i.e. you'll be doing what he's asked. Whatever you say after that will mean very little. Actions speak far louder than words.
Author Aquarius Rising Posted June 29, 2009 Author Posted June 29, 2009 And what's stopping you TELLING him straight via the phone or email? By going and seeing him, your actions are the exact opposite of what you say you are planning to tell him. You are being no better than you are being treated - i.e. doing what he's asked. Also you are not changing the way you normally behave - i.e. you'll be doing what he's asked. Whatever you say after that will mean very little. Actions speak far louder than words. I am VERY tempted to email tonight cancelling lunch tomorrow .... and do just as you're suggesting?????
MistyK Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 AR, The thing is, in your heart, you know he's already given you the answer. The "let's wait and see" thing is exactly what left me deluding myself for the 1st year and a half of my R with MM. He used to say: "I don't know what the future holds." What this kind of smokescreen does is leave the door open enough to give you hope without him having to say there is hope - that way he can pat himself on the back for not officially "lying" to you to give you false hope. At some point later on, my MM admitted that meant he wanted me to hang on for 9 years until his youngest turned 18 (but of course, he couldn't tell me that because I would have told him to get bent). Bottom line here is that actions speak louder than words and you aren't even getting words. It was at that point in my R with MM that I decided to date other people, at which point he freaked out and started making all kinds of promises. Unfortunately, a year later, I'm still waiting for him to fulfill them. It's very easy to make promises that a MM does not have the power or ability to back up. I WISH I had read the writing on the wall back at your stage of the game. Get out while you still have your sanity. There is no question you can ask this man that he will give you a 'satisfactory' answer to.
Lizzie60 Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 My thoughts... I agree with the other posters who are advising you to cancel.. You say: once in his presence I fall under his spell I allow him to convince me once again just to be patient and wait and see what happens down the track.... dangling that little carrot of hope again. Then you know very well... that once again, he has the potential to reel you in.. to manipulate you... and HE WILL.. trust me on that one! The only way is to cancel the lunch meeting and tell him (text or email) that you will NOT see him again unless he has filed for divorce... You won't see him again... mark my words.. cause he won't leave... (he would have by now if he really wanted you)... You are only stretching this pain on and on... you allow him to manipulate and hurt you... Just put an end to it.. be strong...
Author Aquarius Rising Posted June 29, 2009 Author Posted June 29, 2009 Do it!!!!!!!! I just did............ OMG!!! Copy of the email below OMG!! OMG!!:eek: ____________________________________________________________ [FONT=Arial][sIZE=2]This is going to be VERY unexpected ……….. [/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][sIZE=2] [/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][sIZE=2]MM, I have decided against meeting you today for lunch. The reason for this is incredibly simple and yet incredibly complex.[/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][sIZE=2] [/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][sIZE=2]I no longer choose to be the other woman. [/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][sIZE=2] [/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][sIZE=2]I love you with a passion that consumes me ………… but it’s time I started to love ME more ………. [/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][sIZE=2] [/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][sIZE=2]You are NOT going to tell me anything today that I haven’t already heard ……… you CHOOSE to keep our love a secret from the world ……….. you HAVE power over that decision and that is what you CHOOSE. [/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][sIZE=2] [/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][sIZE=2]Quite frankly I would be wasting another precious day of my life looking beautiful to please YOU, giving YOU my heart, my mind, my warm and loving affection …………. only for YOU to go home and snuggle up to your wife at night and plan your future together with HER …….. not me………….. While I lay in bed snuggled up to my ‘false hope’.[/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][sIZE=2] [/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][sIZE=2]I will no longer cling to the FALSE hope you offer. The truth is I have already turned down invitations to enjoy REAL time with guys who want REAL relationships. You have NEVER indicated that you want a real relationship with me, and today will be NO different. I have been deeply hurt by your lack of emotional support during a time in my life when I really needed you to step up. [/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][sIZE=2]You see, there I was again …………. clinging to that false hope that you really are someone who knows me, or even wants to know me?, and someone who cares deeply about me and someone who would ‘be there’ when I needed you. Someone who doesn’t just say ‘I am here’ ………. but actually means it. Actions speak louder than words. [/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][sIZE=2] [/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][sIZE=2]IF you decide to leave your wife (i.e. file for divorce) …….. PLEASE let me know ……….. because THEN ………… and only then …………. Do we have ‘REAL HOPE’ ………..and a VERY REAL future together……… [/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][sIZE=2] [/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][sIZE=2]Meantime, you understand …..…… I need to get on with my life……….. and be TRUE to myself.[/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][sIZE=2] [/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][sIZE=2]AR [/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][sIZE=2] [/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][sIZE=2] [/sIZE][/FONT]
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