her_halo_slipped Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 Hello all. This is my first post here but I have been reading posts for a while now. Some of you give very sensible, practical advise. I am hoping you will have some for me.... I am married (quite happily) and met my MM at work. We are both high end medical professionals with busy stressful jobs that we both started around the same time about 18mths ago. We worked very closely together and got along very well to the point where we would spend most lunch breaks together in the tea room or grabbing a quick bite to eat in a nearby cafe always discussing cases etc. All platonic and all above board. MM received a bonus for some work he did and he assumed I also had received one. I didn't. Part of the package was two movie tickets and he invited me to go as he said I deserved a bonus too. I declined and suggested he take his wife. However a week or so later after a busy, stressful shift he asked again, very impromtu and so I decided I would go. Again all above board. About a month later he then asked me to go to a party where some very old mutal aquaintances from our university days would be. I should tell you we attended the same uni...he a year ahead of me. It also turns out that just before this party I found out that his wife was one of my close friends at uni but I hadn't seen her in 25 years! She was going to attend this party too but couldn't make it at the last minute, so he and I went alone. We had a really great evening. Again platonic and above board. Since then, over the past 12 mths we have had many (last count say 20) platonic lunches, dinners, drinks with mutual friends. A BBQ at his house (his wife was working). Coffee at my house(my hubby was working), he met my best friend from interstate when she was here...you get the picture. Never had he made any attempt at anything more than friendship, however there was some serious chemistry building between us so much so that a few comments had reached my ears from other colleagues. My best friend also said the intense body language and chemistry was off the richter scale. I felt that too. Meanwhile I was going insane wondering what the hell was going on. Was he interested in me? Was he not? After about 12 mths I realised that I was very much interested in him, as a respected colleague, friend and possibly more! As recently as last week we had dinner with my best friend as she was here interstate and while she was outside taking a call on her mobile he and I locked eyes very deeply. In a heartstopping momment I acted on the urge to find out where his behaviour over the past 12 mths or so was leading. All I could manage was " I have been very patient these last 12 mths" to which he replied " you have been very tolerant of me". I instinctively felt a shift in momentum in the relationship, to a higher place. That proabably sounds silly.It's inexplicable but very real. Then my friend arrived back and the conversation shifted rapidly to "chit chat" to include her.She confessed afterward she felt the "electricity" between us after she returned to the table. Dinner ended, we said our goodbyes with a kiss on the cheek. That was that. Another platonic dinner. The next day, after contemplating how bizzare the whole situation had become I contacted him and asked him where things were. He said that he has tossed and turned many sleepless nights over the past 12 months wondering if he wanted to take things to the next level with me. Sometimes he did then he was sure, a conflict really. He said for a long time he didn't know what I wanted but as soon as he realised I wanted more (not sure how he came to that conclusion emphatically as it has never been discussed nor have I ever made a move towards that) he knew it was not something he could do. He said it was not something he could do because he had had an affair that endly sadly eight years ago and that he didn't think the outcome of an affair makes anyone any happier. He also said he couldn't risk not tucking his girls up in bed at night. I said fine...okay. As long as i know. But I was very upset on the phone, almost to the point I couldn't speak coherently. He asked if I was okay, to which I said yes. He then said he was sorry for hurting me. The conversation went on for a bit with me asking when he'd known that's not what he wanted (the night before's dinner was fresh in my mind and I find it hard to believe he switched off his feelings since then to now...less than a day later). He would only commit to "a short time". He reiterated several times that he values my friendship, always enjoys my company and looks forward to the next time he see's me and would very much like to remain friends. In my state of upset I said I didn't think I could be just friends right now. He said he completely understood. That was Sat afternoon. On Sunday I wrote my feelings (the whole kitty and caboodle) in an email and sent it. I sent him an sms asking him to read it (thats not uncommon for us to do and we have used this means of communication many times usually about issues although never related to personal feelings). I heard nothing nor did he read the email. On Tues I sent an sms saying I thought we had a miscommunication issue on our hands and could we talk about it to get things on the same page. Nothing. On Tues evening I sent another sms asking him to please read my email as I did not like to think we were in conflict over this. Still nothing and he hasn't yet read the email. (I know this because I have access to his email address...long story but it is a hotmail account I set up for him). It is not unusual for him to take a week or so to access his emails under normal circumstances. We have been entangled in an emotional affair for the past 12 mths. I see that now. Anyway....5 days have elapsed since the last sms I sent and NC from him at all. I am left wondering...what is happening? I have several ideas. Happy to share them if anyone posts asking me but I am more interested in what you think? As for me I am confused and hurt. 18 mths of friendship is hard to throw away in a literal heartbeat. The very last thing I want to be is a "bunny boiler" and very much want to address the issue with respect and dignity. I am not sure whether NC does that. Does he need time to get his head around things. I do feel it is a misunderstanding that can be cleared up. We are two mature adults, attracted to each other who realise that an affair is not something we could do. I just want him to know that I too agree with this. How can I do that is he isn't communicating with me? Thank you to everyone who wishes to respond.
Lyssa Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 Maybe his W found out about the dinners/lunches/smses and gave him an ultimatum or he is just ignoring you because he doesn't want to have anything more to do with you - as he did tell you he couldn't do it.
sugarmomma Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 You are happily married. He wants an emotional affair. You want a physical affair. You are friends with the W. Why if you are happily married? Just because you are attracted to one another? That is not a good reason. Why risk your M if it is happy? Sounds like he is done and is trying to send a clear message to you. Don't get the paralysis of analysis trying to figure out why he is ignoring you. It doesn't matter. Please cut contact with him. It is not unusual for a woman to start chaisng when a man pulls back. Don't bite the bait. Let it go. He has.
Author her_halo_slipped Posted June 28, 2009 Author Posted June 28, 2009 Maybe his W found out about the dinners/lunches/smses and gave him an ultimatum or he is just ignoring you because he doesn't want to have anything more to do with you - as he did tell you he couldn't do it. Maybe his wife did find out. Thank you Lyssa. Honestly I never even thought of that. He has never said he doesn't want anything more to do with me. On the contrary. He said he wishes to remain friends and continue in that vein. It was I who initially said I would find it difficult to do that.
Lyssa Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 Maybe his wife did find out. Thank you Lyssa. Honestly I never even thought of that. He has never said he doesn't want anything more to do with me. On the contrary. He said he wishes to remain friends and continue in that vein. It was I who initially said I would find it difficult to do that. Oh sorry, I thought I read somewhere in your OP that he was the one that couldn't do it. I am not sure if you could remain friends after being emotionally involved like that - it's not easy. You could easily fall back into an affair.
jj33 Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 Halo the other thing is that "lets be friends" is the swan song of most relationshps. He doesnt want this to get complicated so he doesnt want it to continue. He said lets be friends which is code for no hard feelings. You cant blame him for not wanting to jeopardise his marriage. You need to let him be.
Author her_halo_slipped Posted June 28, 2009 Author Posted June 28, 2009 Please cut contact with him. It is not unusual for a woman to start chaisng when a man pulls back. Don't bite the bait. Let it go. He has. Thanks Sugar. I have not contacted him for 5 days now and I have no intention of chasing him. I am sure that would ignite his ego. No sense in doing that at the expense of my dignity and self respect. I suppose I have come to terms with the "it's over" bit and am trying to come to terms with the loss. It is upsetting. Thank goodness it was not a physical affair. I guess I just dont understand how people, friends that you come to like a lot can just cut others off like that. I've read lots of posts on here and it seems common enough. I couldn't do it. Not easily anyway. Maybe if my life depended on it. Perhaps his life did depend on it as Lyssa suggested, his W may have found out. I don't think she has. As I remember her from uni 25 years ago and from what I do know of her now she would not have hesitated in contacting me if she knew.
Lyssa Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 Thanks Sugar. I have not contacted him for 5 days now and I have no intention of chasing him. I am sure that would ignite his ego. No sense in doing that at the expense of my dignity and self respect. I suppose I have come to terms with the "it's over" bit and am trying to come to terms with the loss. It is upsetting. Thank goodness it was not a physical affair. I guess I just dont understand how people, friends that you come to like a lot can just cut others off like that. I've read lots of posts on here and it seems common enough. I couldn't do it. Not easily anyway. Maybe if my life depended on it. Perhaps his life did depend on it as Lyssa suggested, his W may have found out. I don't think she has. As I remember her from uni 25 years ago and from what I do know of her now she would not have hesitated in contacting me if she knew. EA is just as bad as PA for some people - either way, it still hurts to end it because you have invested your feelings for someone else. His W may have not contacted you yet because she wants them to concentrate on working on their M or she's probably trying to calm herself down - who knows. You will get over this. Do you plan to make things better between you and your H?
whichwayisup Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 18 mths of friendship is hard to throw away in a literal heartbeat. And so is a marriage, especially one that involves children. My question is, what about your husband? What's going on with you that you kept putting yourself in this situation, allowed feelings to grow for another man? You say your marriage is quite happy, so why cheat on your husband? Something is broken inside of you.
Author her_halo_slipped Posted June 28, 2009 Author Posted June 28, 2009 And so is a marriage, especially one that involves children. My question is, what about your husband? What's going on with you that you kept putting yourself in this situation, allowed feelings to grow for another man? You say your marriage is quite happy, so why cheat on your husband? Something is broken inside of you. I'm not sure I agree with the notion that something always has to be wrong with a current situation to become friends and develop feelings for another person. Does anyone agree that sometimes someone happens along in life for whom you do care about and you do find attractive? Why does there have to be something wrong or broken? I'm not saying I am not broken or that things are perfect...let me think about that for a while.
jj33 Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 No nothing has to be wrong for you to develop a friendship with someone else. But something does have to be wrong (unless you are not really a monogamous person and dont understand someone else's desire to remain monogamous) if you cant understand why someone wouldnt want to continue a friendship that they think could be threatening to their marriage. You do understand that dont you? Dont take this the wrong way but you are asking him to prioritise your friendship above his loyalty to his W. He doesnt feel that he can continue this because he is married. Surely you understand that, dont you?
whichwayisup Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 Okay, let's put it this way, how would you feel if you found out your husband was doing exactly what you're doing now with another (married) woman. Sending her emails, had sexual chemistry with her, spent time alone with her, allowed feelings to grow. It's one thing to be friends with someone of the opposite sex, it's another when you're getting something sexual and emotional out of it, THAT in itself messes with your head, feelings and most of all, what you feel towards your husband. That sexual energy you feel is from another man. Just please be honest with yourself and don't try to justify it. Why does there have to be something wrong or broken? Well, if something isn't wrong or broken it means you're selfish and not thinking of or considering your husbands feelings.
whichwayisup Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 Dont take this the wrong way but you are asking him to prioritise your friendship above his loyalty to his W. He doesnt feel that he can continue this because he is married. Surely you understand that, dont you? I agree 100%! Would you put this guy's feelings above your own husbands feelings? If your husband found out and told you to end it with the MM and never see/talk to him again, would you respect that? Or would you sneak off anyway, try to see/talk to/email the MM behind your H's back? Already you're too emotionally attached and involved to someone who is NOT your husband.
jj33 Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 Well, if something isn't wrong or broken it means you're selfish and not thinking of or considering your husbands feelings. Or this mans feelings. If you are really his friend. You will respect his wishes. And lets not even get to the fact that you know his W. You really need to get a grip. You are justifying the unjustifiable.
Author her_halo_slipped Posted June 28, 2009 Author Posted June 28, 2009 No nothing has to be wrong for you to develop a friendship with someone else. You do understand that dont you? Dont take this the wrong way but you are asking him to prioritise your friendship above his loyalty to his W. He doesnt feel that he can continue this because he is married. Surely you understand that, dont you? When you put it that way...yes I do. It is very simple. It's not the understanding that I'm having trouble with. It's just my own hurt feelings. Does thast sound selfish?
Lyssa Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 When you put it that way...yes I do. It is very simple. It's not the understanding that I'm having trouble with. It's just my own hurt feelings. Does thast sound selfish? HHS, do you even care about your H? You seem to avoid answering Qs regarding your H. I'm not trying to be mean but rather, trying to understand your situation as to how you could have gotten involved with someone else when you're quite happily married.
Author her_halo_slipped Posted June 28, 2009 Author Posted June 28, 2009 I'm still wondering about "quite happily married" . Thats as opposed to "perfectly happily married". Thank you all for posting replies. You are all indeed correct. The situation is crystal clear for you all because you are not involved. I on the other hand could not see the forest for the trees. That's why I came here...to get sensible practical advice. THANK YOU! You have told me what I knew deep down but could not (? would not) acknowledge. The whole relationship was wrong from the start. I am only thankfully it remained an EA and not a PA. Not that that is 100% great though. I will respect the NC and move on with my "quite happily married" life with a view to making it a" perfectly happy one". It is all about priorities. That's not to say my hurt will disappear in a poof! though.
Lyssa Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 Thats as opposed to "perfectly happily married". Thank you all for posting replies. You are all indeed correct. The situation is crystal clear for you all because you are not involved. I on the other hand could not see the forest for the trees. That's why I came here...to get sensible practical advice. THANK YOU! You have told me what I knew deep down but could not (? would not) acknowledge. The whole relationship was wrong from the start. I am only thankfully it remained an EA and not a PA. Not that that is 100% great though. I will respect the NC and move on with my "quite happily married" life with a view to making it a" perfectly happy one". It is all about priorities. That's not to say my hurt will disappear in a poof! though. Of course it wouldn't disappear with a snap of your fingers but the hurt/pain will go away. You need to concentrate on your M - how you could make it better/happier. I was an OW involved with MM - I didn't know he was married in the beginning but when I did, I told him I couldn't go on with it because I wouldn't want to be part of an A that would hurt him, his family and myself. In the end, he did what he should have done from the beginning instead of starting an A with OW [i told you a bit of my story so that you know where I am coming from and am not attacking you in any way]. In a way, I understand what you're going through. You started an EA with someone you saw as a friend - that's what dangerous about EA - it could be innocent from the start and turn into an A. You did acknowledge that you could/would not acknowledge that you are having an EA - now you just have to acknowledge that YOU HAVE TO END IT and make NC with him. It will help you to work on your M and for him to recover his.
Author her_halo_slipped Posted June 28, 2009 Author Posted June 28, 2009 Of course it wouldn't disappear with a snap of your fingers but the hurt/pain will go away. You need to concentrate on your M - how you could make it better/happier. I was an OW involved with MM - I didn't know he was married in the beginning but when I did, I told him I couldn't go on with it because I wouldn't want to be part of an A that would hurt him, his family and myself. In the end, he did what he should have done from the beginning instead of starting an A with OW [i told you a bit of my story so that you know where I am coming from and am not attacking you in any way]. In a way, I understand what you're going through. You started an EA with someone you saw as a friend - that's what dangerous about EA - it could be innocent from the start and turn into an A. You did acknowledge that you could/would not acknowledge that you are having an EA - now you just have to acknowledge that YOU HAVE TO END IT and make NC with him. It will help you to work on your M and for him to recover his. How right you are. EA's are just as if not more dangerous than PA's because they are insidious and can just creep up on you. I think that's what happened with me. I am not avoiding Q's about H. He is a wonderful man who does not deserve to be hurt. I don't really know what I was thinking (clearly I wasn't) for the past 12 mths. I suppose in some twisted sense I have the MM to thank for having the sense to bring this crashing to an end. If he hadn't God only knows how much longer we might have let it continue. Just one question...Can one ever go back to being friends? Has anyone made a sucess out of that. Most posts I have read suggest it isn't possible. (not that that is where I am heading in this case mind you).
Athena Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 he knew it was not something he could do. He said it was not something he could do because he had had an affair that endly sadly eight years ago and that he didn't think the outcome of an affair makes anyone any happier. He also said he couldn't risk not tucking his girls up in bed at night. I said fine...okay. As long as i know. But I was very upset on the phone, almost to the point I couldn't speak coherently. He asked if I was okay, to which I said yes. He then said he was sorry for hurting me. Your MM has been through an affair before and so has experience in how messy affairs become... you have not had this experience. He has the advantage to think before he leaps in... here's the thing: he is clearly an intelligent man, and learns from his past experiences (read: mistakes)... He doesn't want to hurt himself, his family, and YOU.... you showed you were hurt and upset on the phone with him. He reiterated several times that he values my friendship, always enjoys my company and looks forward to the next time he see's me and would very much like to remain friends. In my state of upset I said I didn't think I could be just friends right now. He said he completely understood. He tried to keep the balance in what you guys had, but it had already reached the tipping point. Keep in mind that it was you that verbalized the possibility of an affair. He sees this clearly and he tried to put an offer on the table of 'just friends' but you declined it. He KNOWS you cannot handle it... he has gone No Contact with you as a way of starting the Disengaging part, to untangle your heart from his. He knows he does NOT want to take it any further because of the complications and upset to all parties involved (at a future date, nice now, but payback to come... he remembers this pain well... you haven't been thru it so are more eager to continue with where it's headed) That was Sat afternoon. On Sunday I wrote my feelings (the whole kitty and caboodle) in an email and sent it. Did you spell out your deep attraction and connection to him? Did you have any hope in your heart of drawing him back closer to you, or was your intent in writing this to bring closure, understanding, and an End to the possibility of an affair? We have been entangled in an emotional affair for the past 12 mths. I see that now. The Affair fog is beginning to lift a little for you. Anyway....5 days have elapsed since the last sms I sent and NC from him at all. I am left wondering...what is happening? He may well be as tempted as you are to contact you and continue to a full realization of where this EA is headed... to electrifying sex -- but because of his past experience, may be forcing himself to do nothing for a bit, to try get ahold of himself... a pause, before doing something he knows to be foolish, foolhardy, damaging, and eventually painful. I admire him for this part at least.... HOWEVER... he has NOT been such an innocent party up to now (neither have you, but because he's already been down this path before, he knew clearly where it was headed)... it just seems toooooo much of a convenient 'coincidence' that each time his wifey was supposed to be there, she wasn't -- and you got to step in for her in her role by his side, in a social capacity. I find it strange that he had a BBQ at his house when his wife was working?! And -- coincidently YOUR husband was also not at home when MM came to your house for coffee... well, whatever... thing is, you two could still keep up the friendship as long as you felt it was 'all above board' but now it is clearly underwater. MM took a step back, after you laid it all on the table about it being ALL or Nothing... ie to have an affair with you, or else to have nothing... no friendship... you did push for that. That is what has been happening. You may well ask what is happening, because you are confused how he can actually listen to you and take a step back, when emotionally All Systems Are Go! As for me I am confused and hurt. 18 mths of friendship is hard to throw away in a literal heartbeat. The very last thing I want to be is a "bunny boiler" and very much want to address the issue with respect and dignity. I am not sure whether NC does that. No, NC doesn't do that... 'address the issue with respect and dignity', but it does nip it in the bud from taking this relationship even further. Of course it's hard on you emotionally -- the budding friendship, admiration, time invested with each other, talking, etc is enough to launch any love relationship, but now it's going cold turkey NC. I do empathize how difficult this must be for you. But you are not thinking clearly... you still have those feel-good hormones surging through your bloodstream, making you want to move closer to MM, not go NC. But now you have to go with your head, not your heart... in time you will feel less connected and invested in him... and the slight feeling of relief you have now that you didn't have sex with him, will grow to 'What the hell was I thinking'. Does he need time to get his head around things. I do feel it is a misunderstanding that can be cleared up. We are two mature adults, attracted to each other who realise that an affair is not something we could do. I just want him to know that I too agree with this. How can I do that is he isn't communicating with me? Thank you to everyone who wishes to respond. I don't understand what you are referring to when you say you feel there has been a misunderstanding that can be cleared up? There is just an accident waiting to happen here... a disaster for his family, and yours. You may not want to hear this, but I believe the best thing you can do for yourself and your marriage is to tell your husband. Yes -- hear me out... if you tell your husband, it will free you of your secret connection to MM. It will also set you on a path to healing quicker from your sore heart and loss. It will bring you closer to your husband. You might want to see about moving to another job where you will not have to see MM. You will always feel a fondness for MM, but you do need to sidestep this disaster in the making.
anne1707 Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 Can one ever go back to being friends? Has anyone made a sucess out of that. Most posts I have read suggest it isn't possible. (not that that is where I am heading in this case mind you). But friends is all you were supposed to be before and look what happened. No, there is absolutely no way that you can continue to be friends. That would just be a continuation of the EA. If you want your marriage to work, you have to go for NC. Tough when you work together but it can be done.
Lyssa Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 Can one ever go back to being friends? Has anyone made a sucess out of that. Most posts I have read suggest it isn't possible. (not that that is where I am heading in this case mind you). I don't think you can ever go back to being friends, not only is it a bad idea - it will just make things more complicated. It's over. Focus on healing and making things right with your H.
jj33 Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 When you put it that way...yes I do. It is very simple. It's not the understanding that I'm having trouble with. It's just my own hurt feelings. Does thast sound selfish? No its not selfish at all so long as you acknowledge that is what it is. Its normal to hurt over the fact that someone you want to be close to cant be close to you. But its important to acknowledge that and not try to push the envelope by trying to be "friends". First you know you want more and that isnt possible. Second he knows you want more and doesnt want to risk it. You need to grieve the loss of the friendship. Then if and when you are ready, you may want to look at your marriage and why you wanted to have an affair.
Athena Posted June 28, 2009 Posted June 28, 2009 Can one ever go back to being friends? Has anyone made a sucess out of that. Most posts I have read suggest it isn't possible. (not that that is where I am heading in this case mind you). Not in your case. You are in over your head. Also -- you DO have a GOOD marriage, and you will be putting it in jeopardy if you try to pick up where you left off with MM. This is because the way to safeguard your marriage now, after you allowed another man into your heart, is to come clean with your husband... I really don't think your husband is going to want you to continue seeing MM once he hears your story... also, why continue to tempt yourself with a man that you could easily fall head over heels in love with? You have to give him up. You already have a husband. This MM has gone beyond 'just a friend', it's too late to backpedal on that now.
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