Eeyore79 Posted June 27, 2009 Posted June 27, 2009 I told my friend not to give her ex-fiance the engagement ring back... was it the right thing to do? Basically what happened is they got engaged and moved in together, and as soon as he was able to keep close tabs on her he became suspicious she was having an affair (she wasn't, he was always ridiculously jealous and suspicious, and he got so much worse when they got engaged). After only two months of living together he walked out, it's a 1 bed apartment so my friend can't get a roomie to share, and she can't afford the rent on her own. So she goes to the landlord and says, I can't afford the rent here now my fiance has walked out, can I cancel the rest of the tenancy? And the landlord says no, you signed it so you have to stay. There's 10 months left on the tenancy, which would cost 4k = 2k each. So my friend is stuck in this tenancy which her ex-fiance also signed his name to, and she says to him: Look I know you dont live in the apartment any more and so you feel you shouldn't have to pay the rent, but you signed this joint tenancy too and we can't get out of it, so you have to pay your half because I don't have the money. It's unfair that you should walk away and live somewhere affordable while I'm stuck with a tenancy we both signed. And obviously he says no, he's not paying anything! So (on my advice) she says: Well you're not getting the engagement ring back (worth 1k) until you pay up for the rent, because if you don't pay up I'm going to pawn the ring and put it towards your half of the rent. Obviously, he hasn't paid up, and she's still hanging onto the ring and planning to pawn it if he doesn't pay up within a couple of months. He said he would take her to court for the ring, and she said Well if you do I'll take you to court for the rent, so he's dropped the subject. I asked her why she just doesn't take him to court anyway, and she said because her biggest fear is he'll pay the rent and exercise his right to move back into the apartment he's paying for, and she'll have to live with him in a 1 bed apartment till the tenancy runs out - she's terrified of him because of his recent behaviour. She said she actually hopes he doesn't pay up and she can just pawn the ring and get a bank loan for the rest of the rent, which seems unfair to me but I can understand why she's afraid he'll move back in. But he's now going around and telling all their mutual friends that she cheated and then refused to give the engagement ring back, and he's seen her in the street with the guy she cheated with and he's going to punch him, etc. He has seen her with a guy, but it's someone she met and has sort of been having a rebound relationship with for a few weeks, but their friends have also seen her out with this guy and assumed the ex-fiance is telling the truth and she cheated with this guy. They asked her if she kept the ring, and she said Yes but.. and didn't get a chance to finish because they walked away. She's really upset because their mutual friends are all siding with him because they knew him longer, they won't listen to her explanations and they're saying nasty things like she's a slut and a whore. So I told her if they turned on her like that they're not true friends anyway. One ex-friend works with her, and one of his colleagues reported him because he was having a text chat with the ex-fiance on his work computer, and he was saying stuff like my friend won't be at the company much longer, he'll make sure they get rid of her, and she's lazy and doesn't work, and they should destroy all the equipment in the stock room because she does perverted things with it like getting off on the joystick and stuff. It's a load of crap, but my friend was very upset when the manager showed her the printout of that chat and asked her about her friendship with this guy, because she feels like all of her old friends must be saying this sort of spiteful stuff behind her back. Needless to say, I feel like this is sort of my fault. Her fiance was ok with her until, on my advice, she refused to return the ring until she got his share of the rent. Then he got really nasty and started turning all their mutual friends against her and being threatening. I don't know what to tell her to do.
BUENG1 Posted June 27, 2009 Posted June 27, 2009 I told my friend not to give her ex-fiance the engagement ring back... was it the right thing to do? Basically what happened is they got engaged and moved in together, and as soon as he was able to keep close tabs on her he became suspicious she was having an affair (she wasn't, he was always ridiculously jealous and suspicious, and he got so much worse when they got engaged). After only two months of living together he walked out, it's a 1 bed apartment so my friend can't get a roomie to share, and she can't afford the rent on her own. So she goes to the landlord and says, I can't afford the rent here now my fiance has walked out, can I cancel the rest of the tenancy? And the landlord says no, you signed it so you have to stay. There's 10 months left on the tenancy, which would cost 4k = 2k each. So my friend is stuck in this tenancy which her ex-fiance also signed his name to, and she says to him: Look I know you dont live in the apartment any more and so you feel you shouldn't have to pay the rent, but you signed this joint tenancy too and we can't get out of it, so you have to pay your half because I don't have the money. It's unfair that you should walk away and live somewhere affordable while I'm stuck with a tenancy we both signed. And obviously he says no, he's not paying anything! So (on my advice) she says: Well you're not getting the engagement ring back (worth 1k) until you pay up for the rent, because if you don't pay up I'm going to pawn the ring and put it towards your half of the rent. Obviously, he hasn't paid up, and she's still hanging onto the ring and planning to pawn it if he doesn't pay up within a couple of months. He said he would take her to court for the ring, and she said Well if you do I'll take you to court for the rent, so he's dropped the subject. I asked her why she just doesn't take him to court anyway, and she said because her biggest fear is he'll pay the rent and exercise his right to move back into the apartment he's paying for, and she'll have to live with him in a 1 bed apartment till the tenancy runs out - she's terrified of him because of his recent behaviour. She said she actually hopes he doesn't pay up and she can just pawn the ring and get a bank loan for the rest of the rent, which seems unfair to me but I can understand why she's afraid he'll move back in. But he's now going around and telling all their mutual friends that she cheated and then refused to give the engagement ring back, and he's seen her in the street with the guy she cheated with and he's going to punch him, etc. He has seen her with a guy, but it's someone she met and has sort of been having a rebound relationship with for a few weeks, but their friends have also seen her out with this guy and assumed the ex-fiance is telling the truth and she cheated with this guy. They asked her if she kept the ring, and she said Yes but.. and didn't get a chance to finish because they walked away. She's really upset because their mutual friends are all siding with him because they knew him longer, they won't listen to her explanations and they're saying nasty things like she's a slut and a whore. So I told her if they turned on her like that they're not true friends anyway. One ex-friend works with her, and one of his colleagues reported him because he was having a text chat with the ex-fiance on his work computer, and he was saying stuff like my friend won't be at the company much longer, he'll make sure they get rid of her, and she's lazy and doesn't work, and they should destroy all the equipment in the stock room because she does perverted things with it like getting off on the joystick and stuff. It's a load of crap, but my friend was very upset when the manager showed her the printout of that chat and asked her about her friendship with this guy, because she feels like all of her old friends must be saying this sort of spiteful stuff behind her back. Needless to say, I feel like this is sort of my fault. Her fiance was ok with her until, on my advice, she refused to return the ring until she got his share of the rent. Then he got really nasty and started turning all their mutual friends against her and being threatening. I don't know what to tell her to do. Well she is between a rock and hard place. She doesn't want the guy to move back in but she can't afford the place on her own. She doesn't really have a right(legal) to have him pay and not live there. Has he missed a rent payment yet? About the stuff at her job she should obviously go to HR. Maybe she can talk more to the landlord about getting out of the lease. Maybe if she finds someone to replace in the apartment and she can move out. There's a good chance the landlord will go for that(esp if they are in a better financial situation), people don't want to sue people with no money.
D-Lish Posted June 27, 2009 Posted June 27, 2009 Well she is between a rock and hard place. She doesn't want the guy to move back in but she can't afford the place on her own. She doesn't really have a right(legal) to have him pay and not live there. Has he missed a rent payment yet? About the stuff at her job she should obviously go to HR. Maybe she can talk more to the landlord about getting out of the lease. Maybe if she finds someone to replace in the apartment and she can move out. There's a good chance the landlord will go for that(esp if they are in a better financial situation), people don't want to sue people with no money. He is legally bound to pay half the rent if he is named as a joint tenant. It's a contract, and he signed it- he does have a legal obligation to pay the rent. He also left on his own free will, she didn't kick him out. He can't just return either. Rent laws differ place to place- but he signed the contract and he is bound to it. I'd tell your friend to check out the exact letter of the law in the area she resides.
Star Gazer Posted June 27, 2009 Posted June 27, 2009 He is legally bound to pay half the rent if he is named as a joint tenant. It's a contract, and he signed it- he does have a legal obligation to pay the rent. Well, not necessarily, at least not in California. They need to have an agreement between themselves regarding portions of rent (I'd suggest this for all "roommates," really). Otherwise, they are jointly and severally responsible to the landlord for the full amount of rent if one of them skips out. She could arguably leave, and screw over her fiance as well. This would get them both in some financial trouble if the landlord sues, and she'd be screwing her rental history over in the process as well. But, I doubt the landlord would be awarded the remainder of the 10 months tenacy in damages, as he has a duty to mitigate his damages by finding alternative tenants. Typically speaking, tenants who break leases end up paying 2-3 months in damages. If OP is willing to pay that, it may be worth it. Then, she can go after her BF/fiance for his half in indemnity.
D-Lish Posted June 27, 2009 Posted June 27, 2009 Well, not necessarily, at least not in California. They need to have an agreement between themselves regarding portions of rent (I'd suggest this for all "roommates," really). Otherwise, they are jointly and severally responsible to the landlord for the full amount of rent if one of them skips out. She could arguably leave, and screw over her fiance as well. This would get them both in some financial trouble if the landlord sues, and she'd be screwing her rental history over in the process as well. But, I doubt the landlord would be awarded the remainder of the 10 months tenacy in damages, as he has a duty to mitigate his damages by finding alternative tenants. Typically speaking, tenants who break leases end up paying 2-3 months in damages. If OP is willing to pay that, it may be worth it. Then, she can go after her BF/fiance for his half in indemnity. Lol, I was going to suggest they page you- but here you are!
Author Eeyore79 Posted June 27, 2009 Author Posted June 27, 2009 The manager at her work has basically slapped the ex-friend on the wrist and told him if he catches him talking about another employee like that he will be in trouble. He gave her a new contact in the stock room so she doesn't have to speak to that guy any more, but I still think it's disgusting to talk about someone like that just cos she broke up with your friend, the guy should have been disciplined more harshly. What's upsetting her is that this is obviously how her ex and all of their mutual friends are talking about her now, saying stuff like she's a sexual deviant and is diseased and cheating and whatnot. No rent payments have been missed cos she got a bank loan to cover his half of the rent. So she's basically paying a load of interest to the bank so she can have the cash to pay the rent. She would never have signed the lease if he hadn't signed it too, cos she can't afford the place on her own. I imagine he probably is legally bound to pay half the rent, and at first she witheld the engagement ring cos she wanted him to pay up. But as time has gone on he's become more and more venomous towards her, and she's afraid that if he does pay up he would try to move back in. I'm sure he would be able to move back in if he paid his share of the rent, and she's frightened of him and doesn't want him to move back in, so she said in a way she's happy he hasn't paid up cos at least she can keep the ring and pawn it to get some cash towards his half of the rent. Also him and his friends have been so spiteful already, she's frightened of what else he might do if he was taken to court and forced to pay the rent for the apartment she is living in. I kind of feel like this is my fault, because he wasn't so spiteful towards her until she witheld the ring and asked for the rent like I told her to.
Trialbyfire Posted June 27, 2009 Posted June 27, 2009 The difficulty with keeping the ring is that some jurisdictions and different judges, see the ring as a conditional gift. No matter who breaks the engagement, the ring belongs to the fiance (man). Some judges or jurisdictions, see it in a fault-based manner, where the person who breaks the engagement, isn`t entitled to the ring. I`m not certain she`s entitled to hold the ring as hostage.
Author Eeyore79 Posted June 27, 2009 Author Posted June 27, 2009 I guess he would probably be within his rights to take her to court to get the ring back, but she said if he does that she will also take him to court for his half of the rent. So he has let it go, because the ring is worth less than the rent. To begin with she did withold the ring to persuade him to cough up the rent, but he didn't, and now she's kind of glad he didn't cos she's afraid he might have tried to move back in. He has stopped asking for the ring now, because he knows if he initiates court proceedings for the ring she will do the same for the rent, and she's glad the ring will offset some of the rent payments. But she says in a way she regrets following my advice to keep the ring and ask for the rent, because that's what started this torrent of venom and abuse from him and his friends. I think they would have ended up behaving this way anyway, but I still feel kind of responsible, cos if she hadn't followed my advice these people might not be behaving so badly. She's been really upset, especially cos of what this guy at work was saying, and because her ex (a black belt in karate) is making threats against her new bf.
BUENG1 Posted June 27, 2009 Posted June 27, 2009 He is legally bound to pay half the rent if he is named as a joint tenant. It's a contract, and he signed it- he does have a legal obligation to pay the rent. He also left on his own free will, she didn't kick him out. He can't just return either. Rent laws differ place to place- but he signed the contract and he is bound to it. I'd tell your friend to check out the exact letter of the law in the area she resides. He is bound by the lease, but the lease affords him the right to live in the apartment so he can live there(unless she gets a restraining order of some sort, i dont know how it would work then). He wasn't evicted so he can return whenever he wants. And those issues are between him and the landlord and if he pays rent(or she pays it for him) the landlord can't evict him.
BUENG1 Posted June 27, 2009 Posted June 27, 2009 He is bound by the lease, but the lease affords him the right to live in the apartment so he can live there(unless she gets a restraining order of some sort, i dont know how it would work then). He wasn't evicted so he can return whenever he wants. And those issues are between him and the landlord and if he pays rent(or she pays it for him) the landlord can't evict him. I still think the best way to go is to try and find someone who will rent the apartment and try to get replaced on the lease and move out.
v g Posted June 27, 2009 Posted June 27, 2009 She's got to look up her local renter's rights. My understanding is in California, if they each signed their own lease, they're each responsible for half the rent. If they both signed one lease, they are jointly and severally responsible for the rent. Again, in California she can find a suitable tenant to take over the lease. That will get her out of the lease. If she leaves, she and the ex-boyfriend owe the landlord for the rent and the expenses of advertising for a renter until the landlord finds a new tenant. In any case, it's worth it no matter where you live to know what your rights are as a renter.
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