coping with shocking revalation

June 26, 2009

I'm penning this post out of great concern regarding my best friend of nearly seven years who is like a sister to me. She is a beautiful, accomplished and well educated woman who recently divorced her husband of six years less than a year ago. Her divorce was not amicable and I have been worried about her for some time.

Six months ago she told me that she met someone and was regularly “hooking up” with this person. She dubbed him as "just a friend with benefits" that she was keeping around for the sex only. I became suspicious over the months about why she was being so secretive but would continue to mention him. Very recently, she admitted to me that she is still involved with this person and the reason she hasn't talked much about it is because he is a married man. This has been going on for the last 7 months. He's is one of her co-workers and has two children with his wife of nine years. What concerns me the most is that she continues to describe this as "just a friend with benefits" agreement and became quite enraged when I told her this was not hooking up, but an affair. In my opinion, if a woman is intimate on one or more occasions with a man who is married and KNOWS he is married, then that constitutes an affair.

I expressed that I was both shocked by this news and concerned for her. I urged her to consider the impact of her actions and how hurtful and harmful it was not only to her, but to his wife and his children. She diminished every concern I raised regarding the risks and dangers associated with her behavior. Up until now, she’s been a generous and compassionate person. She does not seem concerned about getting caught, said I was overreacting when I raised concern regarding the risk to her reputation as a senior manager within her company and even said that the harm to his family is for him to deal with, not her.

I've never known her to be so selfish and inconsiderate regarding the impact of her actions. She has always portrayed herself to be of strong moral values and is quite outspoken regarding her moral standards, views and religious beliefs. Since she’s shared this news , she runs hot and cold—very loving and kind one minute and the next minute, very rude, abrupt and harsh. It’s gotten to the point that I find her toxic to be around and have been spending less time with her.

One of our other very close friends who also knows of the affair has been very critical of my choice to keep a distance, calling me a bad and unsupportive friend. She’s even made excuses for our friend saying things such as “She’s had such a hard year. I think you’re being hard on her.”

The way I feel is that our friend is involved in a very dangerous situation that stands to hurt many people. I don’t like the strain and tension that this situation is causing on all of my friendships. Is there a way to maintain these friendships without exposing myself to toxic and unhealthy behavior? The way she's behaving makes me question her character and integrity. I'm interested in this group's thoughts regarding my choice to keep a distance.

June 26, 2009

I'd wonder if she had actually begun seeing this MM even before her divorce...or if this had been a contributing factor to the end of her marriage?

June 26, 2009

I expressed that I was both shocked by this news and concerned for her. I urged her to consider the impact of her actions and how hurtful and harmful it was not only to her, but to his wife and his children. She diminished every concern I raised regarding the risks and dangers associated with her behavior.

how? by telling you she doesn't know...or that his W will never find out?

or the good old line, "what his family don't know won't hurt them"?

Up until now, she’s been a generous and compassionate person. She does not seem concerned about getting caught, said I was overreacting when I raised concern regarding the risk to her reputation as a senior manager within her company and even said that the harm to his family is for him to deal with, not her.

ya, always offloading responsibility for their despicable behavior.

but i guess on some small level I understand. nobody wants to admit they are an accomplice to doing someone harm..much less doing someone harm and acting like a cold-hearted biotch in the process.

some friend you got yourself there.

I've never known her to be so selfish and inconsiderate regarding the impact of her actions.

well now you do

She has always portrayed herself to be of strong moral values and is quite outspoken regarding her moral standards, views and religious beliefs. Since she’s shared this news , she runs hot and cold—very loving and kind one minute and the next minute, very rude, abrupt and harsh. It’s gotten to the point that I find her toxic to be around and have been spending less time with her.

you'd do well to break all ties with her. she'll only drag you down to her level sooner or later.

One of our other very close friends who also knows of the affair has been very critical of my choice to keep a distance, calling me a bad and unsupportive friend.

whats to support? this woman is a party to betraying another woman and is laying the groundwork for helping a MM wreck a family's home.

and she has no remorse about it whatsoever. so what is to support other than unscrupulous behavior. And I highly doubt you want to be seen as supporting that.

She’s even made excuses for our friend saying things such as “She’s had such a hard year. I think you’re being hard on her.”

tell that to the MM's wife....see if she shares that sympathy.

hey!! theres an idea! TELL THIS GUY'S WIFE! You can do it anonymously...but don't you think she has the right to know her husband is a cheating scumbag?

The way I feel is that our friend is involved in a very dangerous situation that stands to hurt many people.

bah, she doesn't care who she hurts. distance yourself from her and tell the MM's wife.

I don’t like the strain and tension that this situation is causing on all of my friendships. Is there a way to maintain these friendships without exposing myself to toxic and unhealthy behavior?

why is it putting strain on your other friendships? if it is because they think you are being a bad friend and think you should support her in her effort to screw a married man....then your other friends aren't someone you should want to be associated with.

really? what is it about people that insinuate, "you are being hard on a someone that is screwing someone elses spouse and doesn't care who they hurt....cut em some slack"??

The way she's behaving makes me question her character and integrity.

good, it shows that you have some sense.

I'm interested in this group's thoughts regarding my choice to keep a distance.

I'd say keep a distance. And if for some reason you want this "woman" as a friend....then stay friends, but whenever she brings up her married man, stop her mid-sentence and say, "you want to talk and be friends, thats fine, but I don't want to hear about your despicable relationship with someone elses husband and father."

June 26, 2009

I'd wonder if she had actually begun seeing this MM even before her divorce...or if this had been a contributing factor to the end of her marriage?

I'd suspect it was a contributing factor to the divorce, if not THE factor.

June 26, 2009

I expressed that I was both shocked by this news and concerned for her. I urged her to consider the impact of her actions and how hurtful and harmful it was not only to her, but to his wife and his children. She diminished every concern I raised regarding the risks and dangers associated with her behavior. Up until now, she’s been a generous and compassionate person. She does not seem concerned about getting caught, said I was overreacting when I raised concern regarding the risk to her reputation as a senior manager within her company and even said that the harm to his family is for him to deal with, not her.

I've never known her to be so selfish and inconsiderate regarding the impact of her actions. She has always portrayed herself to be of strong moral values and is quite outspoken regarding her moral standards, views and religious beliefs. Since she’s shared this news , she runs hot and cold—very loving and kind one minute and the next minute, very rude, abrupt and harsh. It’s gotten to the point that I find her toxic to be around and have been spending less time with her.

One of our other very close friends who also knows of the affair has been very critical of my choice to keep a distance, calling me a bad and unsupportive friend. She’s even made excuses for our friend saying things such as “She’s had such a hard year. I think you’re being hard on her.”

The way I feel is that our friend is involved in a very dangerous situation that stands to hurt many people. I don’t like the strain and tension that this situation is causing on all of my friendships. Is there a way to maintain these friendships without exposing myself to toxic and unhealthy behavior? The way she's behaving makes me question her character and integrity. I'm interested in this group's thoughts regarding my choice to keep a distance.

I appreciate your sincere concern for all involved and that you've turned to those who know for advice.

I have been a BW as well as an OW. I also was the OW during and after a divorce.

I believe she diminished every concern you raised regarding the risks and dangers associated with her behavior because in her heart she plans on remaining a secret forever and has no intentions of breaking up a M. That was my intention once I realized I fell hard for exMM and saw my situation for what it was, an affair.

She STILL is a generous and compassionate person. Her affair does not change her DNA nor her personality. She may defend her actions since you NOW know and approach her on a subject never discussed before in your history as friends. You never questioned her compassion and generosity before and now she feels you are dismissing those qualities simply because she is sleeping with someone she is not married to/having an affair with/another woman's H. Her innate qualities have not changed so do not see her in any different light.

Be very careful about being concerned about her reputation within the company. She may be feeling defensive toward you because since confiding in you, YOU may be the one to ruin her reputation. She trusted you with that confidence so you need to reassure her that her secret is safe with you. Once you do that, she'll not be so defensive around you.

Are you sure she is the toxic one? I'm thinking it is your feelings about her actions that is the toxicity you feel. Take away your judgment of her sitch and see how toxic you feel.

You said since she's shared this news she's been running hot and cold. The vascillation comes from the risk of having trusted you and your reaction to it. You asked her what was up and she confided in you. By doing so, she did not ask you to condone her behavior.

That last bolded question, "Is there a way to maintain these friendships without exposing myself to toxic and unhealthy behavior?"

Yes, stop judging her and allow her to deal with this all on her own. It is her business, not yours. Go ahead and be the supportive friend you always were and trust her to do what is right for her. Having been there and seeing all the posts on this forum, I am sure she will get the he** out of Dodge once she sees the writing on the wall. We always do.

You need to trust she is questioning her own integrity and character. Right now she sees only her and him and nobody else. When reality hits she will get out. Give her some time and be there when she is hurting.

Please remember who you directed your questions to.

June 26, 2009

Yes, stop judging her and allow her to deal with this all on her own. It is her business, not yours.

I can agree with this. but when her friend starts bringing up her despicable relationship with the MM, ...CF2 should shut her down and tell her she doesn't want to hear about it.

Go ahead and be the supportive friend you always were

supportive of what?

and trust her to do what is right for her.

its obvious her friend doesn't care and what is "right for her" doesn't concern doing right by someone else.

unless you are suggesting to OP that she wait her friend out and hope she sees how no good can come from being with a MM, or the consequences to someone else, who hasn't done a thing to her, as a result of her actions.

You need to trust she is questioning her own integrity and character.

OP has already pointed out that she is not. just the opposite in fact. she is denying that she has any responsibility for anything or anyone to do the right thing or do unto others as you'd have done to you.

June 26, 2009

"Is there a way to maintain these friendships without exposing myself to toxic and unhealthy behavior?"

In my opinion, no. If your friend's emotions are up, down, and all around and this causes you stress and unhappiness then its time to step back and remove yourself for the time being. I draw the line at being friends or family with people who bring craziness into my life. Most likely though in time this will work itself out. It seems the best for all involved is to step back and allow some cooling off time.

June 26, 2009

Your friend is in an affair-fog and she probably has more feelings about this guy than she is admitting, which is why she reacted the way she did when you talked to her. You hit a sore spot with her and in her own mind she's justifying this.

If you can't handle what she's doing and find it hard to be around her now, then back off and just let her know that you do care and are there for her when times get rough. Eventually they will..

You didn't do anything wrong, (sorry WF, I disagree with your post reply), your friend confessed to you what she was up to and with that, you told her what you thought. As I said earlier, she isn't thinking this through and honestly you pointed out the OBVIOUS - Her work reputation and showed her that she is helping this guy betray and cheat on his wife. Telling her isn't anything offensive, it's called being a friend.

Like it or not, sooner or later she WILL get hurt, especially if she does let herself fall inlove with him.

June 26, 2009

I second White Flower's post.

Anyway, if you feel so unconfortable with her choice, I guess you could ask her to avoid the subject and let her know you do not approve of her actions, but at the same time reassure her that she is always the same person to you (or is she?), you still appreciate her as a person, you still love her and that you will keep her secret.

Not that you have to continue the friendship if her A is a deal breaker for you... in this case I think it is "fine" (but really, really sad) to break, or to freeze, the friendship (it would make me wonder if it was a true frienship, though) but it would be unforgivable to mention her A to anyone or to handle carelessly the information she trusted you with.

June 26, 2009

Sometimes being a friend to someone means doing the right thing. This necessarily implies you being a friend to yourself. It sounds as though the qualities you refer to about her were traits you found important and were, in part, reasons why you were friends. They are traits you hold important and through that commonality formed a bond. When the construct of a person is different than what we understood it can mean the end of a friendship.

I had a close girlfriend throughout my years of growing up even into young adulthood. Her path was different than mine and included activities that were unsavory in my opinion. Her ideas evolved differently than mine and I did not feel as though I could be the best me possible through my friendship with her. Wanting different things, valuing different things within reason is fine, but when it works at the core of who a person is it may not be fine. I could have taken the 'no judgment route' but frankly I am not all that certain it is about judgment at all.

It may just be that choices a friend makes define them and when their definition of themselves becomes something different we can either agree to ignore it and move on with the 'friendship' or choose to move on ourselves away from the friendship. Sometimes people go down a slippery slope and because the ride is so seamless they can delude themselves on how far they've really fallen off track. Does your admonishment help someone perceive this? Yes, it can. Going along with someone's slippery slope involves compromises you must make yourself and about what you hold important as well. You must either be disingenuous by disregarding the white elephant in the room or you can be forthcoming about it and make the choice for your well being and hers not to keep her company on her slippery slope of a ride. Who knows, perhaps walking away from a 'friendship' may serve as a wake up call for her. I do not believe that friendship includes assisting another in justification for destructive actions. And yes, what we do is a reflection of who we are. I know I could not be friends with a woman who was able to even engage in a 'friends with benefits' relationship with a man. It would imply many things regarding her character as a woman that would render it impossible for me to see how we could have anything in common. I would see this woman in an immoral and slutty capacity and that would be enough for me.

I think keeping friendships going is important, however sometimes it is also important to be truthful with oneself about who we are and who we wish to be in the long term. Either you will have to give up your views on morality to remain her friend and watch her ride down her slippery slope, or you will have to maintain your views on morality and wish her well on her own journey.

Problems are one thing. Destruction and deception are another.

June 26, 2009

Thanks everyone for providing some interesting perspectives from a variety of points of view. To be honest, something like this has never happened in my close circle of friends and I was in shock when she told me. Given how pious and outspoken she's been over the years in her religious beliefs and moral convictions, she was the last person in my circle of friends I'd ever expect to get caught up in sucha dangerous situation.

White Flower--perhaps I was judgemental. On the other hand, she did ask me to tell her honestly how I was feeling about what she shared. If you ask someone to be honest with you, you have to be prepared to take what you get. I guess I made the mistake of taking the bait and getting sucked into her drama. I won't do that again. And for the record, if god forbid, her actions were exposed, her reputation would be tarnished because of HER ACTIONS.

I call out the work reputation issue because they work for the same company. At the end of the day, if god forbid this involvement is exposed, she's the one that will be condemned in the more harsh manner, not him. After all, he's married and has a family.

I don't think that a troubling divorce justifies her actions under any circumstance. If anything, this situation is only going to compound the hurt and anguish she is feeling. Not to mention the fact that a family could be broken up. No one, not even a person who's not in a good place is entitled to act in a way that could cause so much destruction to so many people.

I stand by my decision to let her know I am here if she needs my support. However, I come first and I feel the need to keep a distance, to protect myself from toxic and unhealthy situations. I don't think that makes me a bad friend, I think that makes me a human being with good sense.

June 27, 2009

Be very careful about being concerned about her reputation within the company. She may be feeling defensive toward you because since confiding in you, YOU may be the one to ruin her reputation. She trusted you with that confidence so you need to reassure her that her secret is safe with you. Once you do that, she'll not be so defensive around you.

I completely disagree with the conclusion you drew. She was defensive because she knows that she is wrong, not because her friend pointed that out.

If anything ruins her reputation, it will be her actions - not someone telling the truth about them.

It is Soooo easy to blame others for our bad and poor decisions.

June 27, 2009

I stand by my decision to let her know I am here if she needs my support. However, I come first and I feel the need to keep a distance, to protect myself from toxic and unhealthy situations. I don't think that makes me a bad friend, I think that makes me a human being with good sense.

CF2, you are correct to look after yourself first than to let her pull you into the drama that this affair is soon going to become.

If you deem her toxic, its in your best interest to limit contact and interaction with her. There is much wisdom in your decision. Those who decide to remain close to her during this time will find themselves involved in her drivebys of the marital home and other dramatic nonsense (I speak from experience; hang up phone calls and other sophomoric behaviors).

If you don't want to be a part of the coming drama but will support her when its over and she's hurting, your choice is best.

June 27, 2009

I completely disagree with the conclusion you drew. She was defensive because she knows that she is wrong, not because her friend pointed that out.

If anything ruins her reputation, it will be her actions - not someone telling the truth about them.

It is Soooo easy to blame others for our bad and poor decisions.

This is not about blaming anyone for anything at all. She said that her friend changed behavior AFTER CF2 got her to spill the beans and then wondered why. I only pointed out why she sees her behavior changing.

I'm not even sure CF2's friend would have ever divulged the info had she not been prodded.

June 27, 2009

I would agree with you WF. There is someone who knows about me and xMM and I live in fear that she will tell someone. Absolute dread. She knows its over but it would really hurt me if she told people that at some point we had been together. I hope she wont but I wont ever know. And she is not as friendly towards me at this point in time so I do wonder and worry.

She had guessed and i did a split second calculatoin and decided confessing was better than letting her gossip and say she thought so. I decided to trust her word that she wouldnt rather than allowing her to feel she wouldnt be betraying a confidence by speculating.

Now I wish I had never confirmed what she knew.

June 27, 2009

To the OP if you question her integrity and want to keep the friends at a distance, then that is the right choice for you.

You dont need drama but more important, they are asking you to be supportive of something that goes very squarely against your values system. You dont have to support that.

June 27, 2009

If anything ruins her reputation, it will be her actions - not someone telling the truth about them.

It is Soooo easy to blame others for our bad and poor decisions.

So... is it worse helping a wandering H cheat on his W (that you do not know), or helping a friend who is "like a sister" and has otherwise always been a very good person to ruin her reputation after she trusted you and confided in you (and it was you who solicited her to confide in you?).

It is not a real question... more of a rethorical one, as it would be like comparing apples and oranges...

but while being an OW is not good, neither is betraying a friend's trust...

(not implying that ConcernedFriend2 sounds like someone who might do that)

...but then, again, it is all about choices.

(Edit: NoIDidn't, I have nothing against you or your post... it is more of a thought that crossed my mind while reading... streaming not from being an OW but from the luck of having great friends )

June 27, 2009

So... is it worse helping a wandering H cheat on his W (that you do not know), or helping a friend who is "like a sister" and has otherwise always been a very good person to ruin her reputation after she trusted you and confided in you (and it was you who solicited her to confide in you?).

It is not a real question... more of a rethorical one, as it would be like comparing apples and oranges...
but while being an OW is not good, neither is betraying a friend's trust...
(not implying that ConcernedFriend2 sounds like someone who might do that)

...but then, again, it is all about choices.

Sounds very much to me that you are implying that CF2 is going to betray her friend's trust.

The person who should be concerned about their actions isn't the OP. The truth is not the betrayal - the actions are.

I agree with jj33. The friend is asking the OP to betray herself. And CF2 is right to not betray herself or her values by silently condoning behavior that she doesn't agree with.

ETA: Just saw your edit. I don't think that CF2 is interested in blowing her friend's cover. She is just planning to protect herself from the fallout and stay true to her values.

June 27, 2009

ETA: Just saw your edit. I don't think that CF2 is interested in blowing her friend's cover. She is just planning to protect herself from the fallout and stay true to her values.

I do not think she will do that, either.

But I can see why her friend is concerned... if I saw a friend change drastically after I confided in her, I'd not only start worry about losing the friendship, but I'd also start wondering whether my secret is safe. (even just because ex friends tend to be less careful than friends, and worried friends might sometimes talk too much about your own problem with third parties in order to help you or to relieve the stress).

Dropping a friendship because of one's own values... well, I think it is very legitimate, and much braver than just pretending to be still friends with someone. Unfortunately the friend might feel bad about it even if he/she understands.

June 27, 2009

I do not think she will do that, either.
But I can see why her friend is concerned... if I saw a friend change drastically after I confided in her, I'd not only start worry about losing the friendship, but I'd also start wondering whether my secret is safe. (even just because ex friends tend to be less careful than friends, and worried friends might sometimes talk too much about your own problem with third parties in order to help you or to relieve the stress).

Dropping a friendship because of one's own values... well, I think it is very legitimate, and much braver than just pretending to be still friends with someone. Unfortunately the friend might feel bad about it even if he/she understands.

You know what's funny? I just had a relative tell me that her longtime boyfriend is married. I didn't know. She confided in me and doesn't plan to tell any of the rest of our family.

I'm not happy about it, but it now makes sense as to why she kept saying that she was going to break up with him every time I spoke to her over the last five years. Apparently, his W just came back into the country after a long separation and his culture doesn't really divorce.

I told her the same thing I say here, evaluate the R on its own merits first. The morality part is between that person and their values/God. People rarely ever have success in anything when they act against their values and beliefs.

She had already broken up with him. He's been at everything. He was always at her home when I visited her. He was at funerals and birthday parties. Its shocking to find out that he was married. But blood is thicker than water.

June 27, 2009

your friend is being selfish and you are right

June 27, 2009

Many years ago, a dear friend of mine (my best friend from college) got hooked on coke and married her dealer . I was supposed to be the maid of honor. I wouldnt attend the wedding.

Judgemental? Guilty as charged. Her family wanted to pretend everything was fine. He was a lovely young man from a fine family. I wouldnt go. I told her I couldnt stand up before God and condone it. A few years later, I was in the town where she and her H lived, and we saw each other. They were clean. She had invited all sorts of other drama into her life. We didnt keep in touch.

I lost another friend when she wanted to use my apartment to have an A while I was at work. She fell into a deep depression when she got pregnant and wasnt sure whose it was. Talked about suicide. I called a friend of her Hs and said I know her H isnt fond of me, but she is really depressed and I am worried about her. Never having mentoined the A, the friend said what do you want me to do, tell him shes having an affair? I said who said anything about an affair? Shes severely depressed. The friend must have known or suspected and she told her H I was unstable (protecting herself). That friendship ended as well.

Sometimes you need to walk away. People embroil themselves in dramas and either you manage to stay a safe distance away, being supportive to the extent you can, or if it is really adverse to your values you cut the ties.

Maybe I am judgemental and I isolate myself as a result. But I dont think real friends expect you to violate your values for them.

June 27, 2009

People rarely ever have success in anything when they act against their values and beliefs.

I could not agree more.

And...kudos for what you told your relative. I respect your line of thinking.

June 27, 2009

to ruin her reputation after she trusted you and confided in you

I didn't see anywhere in the post that the OP was going to spread rumours around or try to ruin her friends reputation, I think she was pointing out the obvious, that people aren't stupid and sooner or later those whom she works with COULD put two and two together and figure out an affair is going on.

June 27, 2009

Maybe I am judgemental and I isolate myself as a result. But I dont think real friends expect you to violate your values for them.

I agree. I don't get involved in other's dramas. That is a no-no in my household.

If a friend expects you to violate your values for them, they aren't being a friend.

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