Internet "affair"?

[hoping2heal]

Beanz,

 

Quite frankly, you shutting down sexually when your husband was refusing to acknowledge any of your needs, is not only understandable, I can't see how on earth it's abusive.

 

If you two were having troubles, and he refused for a long time to go to MC, I bet that said to you "so he doesn't really care about having a successful relationship with me". If someone makes you feel like you are invalid, and your thoughts and feelings mean nothing to you, I don't blame you for not wanting to have sex. I wouldn't blame a man who was in your shoes either, if his wife was treating him as your husband treats you.

 

No one should ever have to have sex because they feel in debt or obligated, THAT is completely dysfunctional thinking. And where Ariadne figures that not having sex with him is abuse, oh god that's rich.

 

I'm not sure there's anything left to reconcile, but that's an outsiders view who hasn't been through your entire marriage. The only reason I think it seems irreconcilable, is because he really doesn't seem to have any intentions in working with you on the marriage. The cheating multiple times is just his way of doing what's easy, instead of fixing the problem. I don't believe you need to be miserable. No one is perfect, every relationship has problems, but as long as the two people in it are sincere about working on the problems, and the betrayel isn't beyond what the other person has decided they can forgive; I think it can be salvaged. In this case, you need to find out if your husband is that kind of person or not.

 

I think it's terrible that anyone suggested you have sex when you are being mistreated and it feels forced to you, that's just utterly disgusting.

[Ariadne]

not provoke her with the not giving him sex abuse

 

Nah, she already said that he repulsed her.

 

I was leaning towards her insistance that he'd be celibate no matter what, by doing all this policing around.

[beanzmom]

HI everyone:

 

Boy, leave for lunch and the conversation continues

 

Ariadne, he does repulse me. I was assaulted in college by a man who was drunk. what started out as innocent kissing on a first date quickly escalated into a full-on sexual assault. He was much bigger than me and it was very hard to fight him off. I can still smell the alcohol on his breath. THAT MEMORY comes back to me every time my husband insists on sex without showing me any affection. He breathes in my face with his alcohol breath and it's instant fight or flight. It's like I'm being raped over and over and over again. I've been through years of counseling for it, but that smell triggers a memory and it's very difficult for me to repress it and proceed with sex. I typically think about trips to the beach, our vacation at Disney, even what I'm going to do tomorrow to resist the urge to scream. THAT is why my husband repulses me. He knows VERY well that I need affection and simple human interaction aside from "what's for dinner". He also knows what the smell of alcohol on someone does to me (I met him shortly after the assault and he went to counseling sessions with me, saw the police report, etc.). It's nauseating and it angers me to no end that he will not make small concessions like not freaking drinking before sex and actually validating my existence as his wife and supposedly his life partner.

 

I can't wait to see what you have to say about this...

[Jilly Bean]

beanz - not to sound unsympathetic, but tell us the reason you've been staying with this guy all this time?

[Ariadne]

I can't wait to see what you have to say about this...

 

Sorry about what happend.

 

But after all these years he is not going to be loving and tender with you.

 

It's not going to happen.

 

He is not sexually satisfied by a number of problems and looking outside for it (craigslist, friend finder etc).

 

What are you going to do? Force him to stop?

 

You can't do that.

 

All you can do is get divorced if that bothers you.

 

He has a right to have sex if he wants to.

[Owl]

Here's a thought...and I know that this is radical...but I'll throw it out there anyway?

 

How about...forcing EVERYTHING out in the open, get it all identified, addressed, and work out a gameplan to get this addressed, OR...recognize that this can't be fixed and file for divorce?

 

On his side:

 

He's an active alchoholic.

He's no longer emotionally investing in the marriage.

He's potentially involved in an affair or multiple ones online.

 

On her side:

 

She's no longer attracted to him, given the issues outlined above.

She's not willing to meet his physical desires/needs based on the lack of attraction.

 

I say tell him point blank how you feel, and why. Tell him you know about his Craigslist/online "things", and you have every reason to believe that he's "hooking up" with other women. Tell him he's got a choice...change his behaviors, or hit the road.

 

Assuming he can make the changes on his side, it's on the OP to make corresponding changes on her side.

 

Personally, I'd suggest that Ariadne has a great concept IN THEORY...she's just completely clueless on the actual concepts and precepts behind marriage. Open marriages...certainly. But given that she doesn't appear to agree with the concept of monogamy, she's likely to have little useful input into trying to reconcile a relationship that was originally based on monogamy.

[Owl]

Sorry about what happend.

 

But after all these years he is not going to be loving and tender with you.

 

It's not going to happen.

 

He is not sexually satisfied by a number of problems and looking outside for it (craigslist, friend finder etc).

 

What are you going to do? Force him to stop?

 

You can't do that.

 

All you can do is get divorced if that bothers you.

 

He has a right to have sex if he wants to.

 

 

Actually, I agree with this.

 

She can't FORCE him to stop. But she CAN give him the choice between maintaining a marriage with her or continuing his actions.

[beanzmom]

I've stuck with him all these years because I truly believed that he would step up to bat and get over whatever it was that was making him behave like this. STupid, I know. I do love him, wish he would change, but it looks as if it won't. Right now I'm sticking with him until I figure out what I'm going to do. We have two kids who love their dad wholeheartedly and I want to make absolutely sure that I am doing the right thing by them as well as by me. Yeah, yeah I know, things will be better with me and will trickle down to them.

 

I guess what I need for myself is to find indisputable proof that my H is cheating. Whether it's e-mails, phone records, etc. I just need solid evidence so that I can know 1000000000000% beyond a shadow of a doubt that I've done the right thing.

 

Part of the rough emotional stuff I'm going through is the fact that he always makes me second-guess myself. IT's all in my mind, I'm not seeing it right, etc. etc. Even if I KNOW for a fact it's white, he says it's really not, it's just the light...it's really black and I need to open my eyes and see it for real. GAH!!!

 

Typing this all out makes me feel so stupid. more timid women than I have dumped their hubby for less, I'm sure.

 

And in regards to our marriage vows, I take them seriously. VERY seriously. And he told me that he did, as well. If you don't promise yourself to your partner for life, why get married? And marriage is about more than sex, it's about forming a relationship and a friendship with one another that will allow the marriage to last through anything. I just don't have that. No trust, no feelings of being valued. Just a peck on the cheek when I get home, a "what's for dinner" even though he was home all day on the computer and a quick grope in the kitchen and a "how about some later", though he hadn't even hugged me or asked me how my day was.

[Ariadne]

But given that she doesn't appear to agree with the concept of monogamy, she's likely to have little useful input into trying to reconcile a relationship that was originally based on monogamy.

 

I think that when monogamy happens, is the best thing in the world.

[Owl]

Then perhaps you don't agree with renegotiating a contract or agreeing upon the terms of ending it when one or the other (or both) parties have violated it or don't desire to remain in it any longer?

 

I get that you feel that this is all the OP's fault for no longer "giving him sex".

 

What I don't get is why you don't feel that it was HIS responsibility(as well as hers) to ensure that he contributed to a relationship that made this desireable for both parties?

 

I wouldn't want to sleep with an alchoholic, cheating woman...so I cant' blame the OP for not wanting to do so with a man in the similar boat either.

[Ariadne]

Then perhaps you don't agree with renegotiating a contract or agreeing upon the terms of ending it when one or the other (or both) parties have violated it or don't desire to remain in it any longer?

 

I have said many times that I don't think an affair is a certain cause for divorce.

 

I think affairs happen, and many times is not worth getting divorced for that, especially in long term marriages.

 

(Of course, when both partners want to make things work and love each other despite that fact).

 

(And what does it matter what I think in all of this? Is not important).

[whichwayisup]

He won't change until he suffers some kind of consquence or hits his rock bottom. Right now he's comfortable and doing what he wants..Having his cake and eating it too.

 

Definately confront him and if he can't decide what it is he wants, YOU make the decision for him because staying married to him and being around him is killing you.

 

Ariadne, not all can forgive an affair.

[2sunny]

posted by bean:

And in regards to our marriage vows, I take them seriously. VERY seriously. And he told me that he did, as well. If you don't promise yourself to your partner for life, why get married? And marriage is about more than sex, it's about forming a relationship and a friendship with one another that will allow the marriage to last through anything. I just don't have that. No trust, no feelings of being valued. Just a peck on the cheek when I get home, a "what's for dinner" even though he was home all day on the computer and a quick grope in the kitchen and a "how about some later", though he hadn't even hugged me or asked me how my day was.

 

well, from what you say - he is an alcoholic who is active in his disease. until that issue can be addressed head on and has had ample time to heal through a very action based program of recovery - things are likely to remain the same.

 

he shows all the tell tale signs of a person active in the disease - selfish, self centered, dishonest and discontent with people, places and things.

 

unless HE is willing to change this - you are beating a dead horse and it's time to get off.

[beanzmom]

Again, I know what I need to do, but need to know that I have gathered up the evidence I need for myself and whatever court proceedings I need to attend to break things off for good.

 

What's killing me is the fact that he loves his kids. And they love him. Taking him out of their daily lives will be tough. Very tough. And another reason why I'm hoping that things will get better with him. But as each day passes it becomes more apparent that they will not get better. So I plan my exit...may not happen today or tomorrow, but it will...

[Owl]

I have said many times that I don't think an affair is a certain cause for divorce.

 

I think affairs happen, and many times is not worth getting divorced for that, especially in long term marriages.

 

(Of course, when both partners want to make things work and love each other despite that fact).

 

(And what does it matter what I think in all of this? Is not important).

 

Have you ever personally dealt with the pain of being cheated on by someone you loved and trusted?

 

I'd say that the vast majority of those who HAVE been cheated on would disagree with you...affairs ARE a huge, huge issue, and are (again, by a majority of those who have suffered through this) DEFINITELY 'worth getting divorced over'.

 

Clearly, the OP feels this way as well.

 

Given that "what you think" clearly affects the advice you give...and your advice is pretty off the wall from the perspective of those of us who have been through this before...it's very relevent to the questions at hand.

[2sunny]

why not hit him with the truth and reality?

 

hey honey... you quit drinking and get busy with a program of recovery or you're out!!!!

 

it's his choice to change his position or not - and you will have an answer by his actions - either he gets REALLY busy recovering or he doesn't. NO backpeddling and no time to waste!

 

that tells you exactly what his intentions are.

[Owl]

why not hit him with the truth and reality?

 

hey honey... you quit drinking and get busy with a program of recovery or you're out!!!!

 

it's his choice to change his position or not - and you will have an answer by his actions - either he gets REALLY busy recovering or he doesn't. NO backpeddling and no time to waste!

 

that tells you exactly what his intentions are.

 

Egg-Zachary!

[NOTSURE7]

Again, I know what I need to do, but need to know that I have gathered up the evidence I need for myself and whatever court proceedings I need to attend to break things off for good.

 

What's killing me is the fact that he loves his kids. And they love him. Taking him out of their daily lives will be tough. Very tough. And another reason why I'm hoping that things will get better with him. But as each day passes it becomes more apparent that they will not get better. So I plan my exit...may not happen today or tomorrow, but it will...

 

you have all the evidence you need, he wont admit to it anyway unless he wants too, you can show him a video of him and another woman on your kitchen table and he will say its not him, my point is along with addiction and not being happy with one self comes lying, he already clears the computer and is secretive, beleive me he is deep in the cheating game.

 

i understand the whole being a good dad and loving your kids part, i know most would argue that if he really loved his kids he wouldnt be doing this,but i dont agree with that, and if he is a good dad then there is no reason he cant continue to be a good dad if you get divorced,maybe sometime away will make him realize what hes lost.

 

she knows what needs to be done but i beleive she is holding onto hope that something will change, its like i know i should admit everything and give my wife a chance to find love but because she knows nothing and i feel like she has a great life i dont do it because i am hoping i can just stop and change one day, again my point it this wont stop beanz, consider yourself lucky to have been able to know rather than be left living in the dark like most wifes are.

 

wow if i could only follow my own advice..

[tami-chan]

yes, please tell us why you stayed. Because there is no point to a keylogger, confirming his misdeeds on the net...you already know that. And frankly, it's time to cut your losses.

[NOTSURE7]

yes, please tell us why you stayed. Because there is no point to a keylogger, confirming his misdeeds on the net...you already know that. And frankly, it's time to cut your losses.

 

she is staying because she is hoping he will change, i can tell you he wont just change, you tried mc and he gave up on it, he wont change.

 

i will tell you a story,my wife caught me gambling and part of me getting back in she told me i needed to go see a therapist, so i did it twice and told her i was fine,i made things right financially and rebuilt trust so now she is back to thinking she has the greatest life and that i am amazing, but you know what the reality is, i never handled the problem, i just put a bandaid on it and as soon as the waters were calm again i went out and had an A,not only a physical one but and emotional one.

 

my overall point it, he will not change unless he truly wants too and if thats the case he will do whatever is neccessary, sadly for you, i dont think this is the case with your H.

 

if you are not going to leave him for the kids then at least

try confronting him, it will be a tell tale sign of whether he wants to change or not, if he denies it all then you know he dosent care but maybe just maybe he is tired of all the lying and the cheating and deceit and might actually be relieved you caught him, i am not saying that will lead to happiness but at least you will stop questioning yourself and finally have your answer. whether or not its the answer you want i dont know.

[Dexter Morgan]

I am looking at purchasing a keylogger for our computer and am researching software.

 

what for? he has cheated, and cheated over and over again, he has solicited sex with women over and over...and is STILL being secretive about what he is doing.

 

You don't need a keylogger....you need an attorney that knows how to go for his balls.

[Dexter Morgan]

why not hit him with the truth and reality?

 

ya, nothing slaps them in the face with reality like a piece of paper that basically states, "you are about to have 1/2 your retirement, your kids, 30% of your net income, the car, and the house taken away from you.......a $$hole"

[tami-chan]

she is staying because she is hoping he will change, i can tell you he wont just change, you tried mc and he gave up on it, he wont change.

 

i will tell you a story,my wife caught me gambling and part of me getting back in she told me i needed to go see a therapist, so i did it twice and told her i was fine,i made things right financially and rebuilt trust so now she is back to thinking she has the greatest life and that i am amazing, but you know what the reality is, i never handled the problem, i just put a bandaid on it and as soon as the waters were calm again i went out and had an A,not only a physical one but and emotional one.

 

my overall point it, he will not change unless he truly wants too and if thats the case he will do whatever is neccessary, sadly for you, i dont think this is the case with your H.

 

if you are not going to leave him for the kids then at least

try confronting him, it will be a tell tale sign of whether he wants to change or not, if he denies it all then you know he dosent care but maybe just maybe he is tired of all the lying and the cheating and deceit and might actually be relieved you caught him, i am not saying that will lead to happiness but at least you will stop questioning yourself and finally have your answer. whether or not its the answer you want i dont know.

 

Hoping he is going to change....oh dear....well...if there is life, there is hope...I guess.

[Owl]

Hoping he is going to change....oh dear....well...if there is life, there is hope...I guess.

 

Tami, why do you think ANY BS stays and tries to convince their spouse to end the affair???

 

For EXACTLY this reason...for the hope that they'll change.

 

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

 

It's up to the OP to decide what her "breaking point" is in this situation.

 

Heck...that's the only reason NOTSURE7's spouse stayed with him...and sadly in her case, she's been suckered into thinking that he has.

[NOTSURE7]

Tami, why do you think ANY BS stays and tries to convince their spouse to end the affair???

 

For EXACTLY this reason...for the hope that they'll change.

 

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

 

It's up to the OP to decide what her "breaking point" is in this situation.

 

Heck...that's the only reason NOTSURE7's spouse stayed with him...and sadly in her case, she's been suckered into thinking that he has.

 

owl is right..only she can decide,my w decided to stay through the gambling and she bought all the stories and excuses, had she had all the facts maybe it would have been different and i wouldnt be having an A.

 

at least beanz is lucky to have caught him and not be "suckered" or blinded into believeing she is living the perfect life.

 

only you can decide beanz, i know its a lonely place but you have the power to make the change if you desire.