Sam Spade Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Exactly. Any guy who has the courage to admit to himself that he really cares more about sex, love and women than meaningless societal structures like marriage, deserves my respect. Says who? Societal overlords who managed to brainwash masses into thinking that following their own dreams and desires is bad? The same ones who told us that we should live our lives working like slaves, earning worthless money, paying off morgages and debts and getting tied down for the rest of our lives? Any man can have the power to live the life he dreams of. It's well within his reach. We care about creating f*cking great experiences for both women and ourselves. However, women will never be deceived. Any woman who is with me, knows my rules. If she can't play by my rules, and wants me to give her exclusivity and my balls - I will respectfully have to let her go. But at all times, she will know where she stands. Interestingly, really feminine and high-self-esteem women don't mind polyamory. I wish I could find more women who like sleeping around. You mean a chump who will hand over his balls and submit to you? Dude, you know what's meaningful? WHATEVER makes you happy in this short lifetime on Earth. Just because society tells us how to run our lives in accordance with their rules and structures, doesn't mean it's "right" and that following our natural desires is "meaningless". If you admit to yourself what you really want, if you give in to the "way of the nature" and actively put in effort to start living the LIFE OF YOUR DREAMS, then secrets of the cosmos will open up to you. Anything else is a waste of time, a waste of this short and precious life on Earth and disrespect to life. Go out 3 times a week and approach at least 10 women a night. I promise you'll forget about your ex. If you can't approach chicks at home, then go to Thailand, "intimately love" 20 chicks and when you come back, you'll realize that your ex isn't some special unique flower, but rather a woman like any other... and incidentally, there are 3 billion of them, to our satisfaction! haha You could find something to love about any woman out there, if you took time to get to know her better. Those wonderful creatures... Take the red pill and get our of societal matrix. Or... you can be miserable for the rest of your life, spend years pining over that one woman, eventually meet some woman who will own your balls and live the rest of your life in a self constructed prison. Stop pining like a pussy and make a difference in your life. It's well within your reach. Last year I was where you are now.... but I've grown and evolved so much, I can't possibly fathom reverting into such misery again! All this sounds great in theory, mildly inspirational, even. But there is one major problem with it, and quite simply that it is pretty much impossible to live a life without any moral obligations. People have tried to do it for centuries, and the end result is usually miserable in one form or another. (For the poster child - read "Portrait of Dorian Grey", but there are many other notable literary and real life examples).
Sam Spade Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Monogamy and self-control are not always the same as JS presupposes. And a man who chooses to have many partners is not necessarily lacking in self-control. While I agree that one should maintain self control within the confines of a relationship, a man also needs to have the self-control NOT to hitch his wagon to the first female who shows him attention and/or has sex with him. The world is littered with unhappy relationships that are the result of desperate men who "chose" one woman, when they would have been much better off gaining valuable experience dating multiple women and eventually choosing the best possible one....IF, that is, the man WANTS to be monogamous, have kids, etc. Well, I want to be monogamous and have kids etc. the problem is: how can you ever be sure that you have the "best possible woman" for you? (I speak for myself now) - This line of thinking is mildly dangerous since it may tempt you pass a great girl while looking for something better (and there will always be something better - always); also, it does not guard against the possibility of finding the perfect woman for you who then doesn't want to do anything with you. In other words, while I'll always find the thought of dating other women intriguing, in my mind it probably doesn't justify the effort. Of course, if a relationship fails, you do go out and keep dating. So, I'd paint it in broader strokes: 1. Step one - decide if you want to be monogamous, have kids, etc. 2. If yes, find a decent girl and make it work. End of story 3. If not, keep screwing around and don't look back. End of story.
clv0116 Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Well, I want to be monogamous and have kids etc. the problem is: how can you ever be sure that you have the "best possible woman" for you? I think the soulmate myth causes more relationship issues than it gets "credit" for.
Jersey Shortie Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 I personally think people that always need to be on the look out for that " something better" , have more personal insecurity about themselves more times then not. There is not alwasy something better out there. It's the mere perception of the "grass being greener" illusion that truly is what can get people. I am perfectly able to be happy with myself, and with a good man without always having to wonder what men are better then him. And thank god for it because who wnts to be with someone that is always looking out and thinkign about how much better someone else is just because it's someone they don't have.
clv0116 Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 .... There is not alwasy something better out there. It's the mere perception .... Well define "better". There is always going to be someone who has strengths where the SO has a weakness. That's a given. There might even be someone who is better in most or all ways. But once you have a relationship and shared history, memories, inside jokes and so forth, those are things no outsider has. Those are the things to value and cherish.
Chicago_Guy Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Alot of guys here say they respect Hugh Hefner. Why don't we respect men that really have done more for their world then just gave men all over the world more eye candy to get off to on those nights when they are sick of their wives. Men like Barack Obama, Paul Newman, or Jackie Robinson. Those are great men worthy of respect. Jersey, you lost all credibility when you mentioned Barack Obama as someone "great [men] worthy of respect." I respect successful people who earn things on their own merits, and that sure as hell doesn't describe Obama. I'm not saying I look up to Hefner, but he least he's a self-made man.
Surfer Dude Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 All this sounds great in theory, mildly inspirational, even. But there is one major problem with it, and quite simply that it is pretty much impossible to live a life without any moral obligations. People have tried to do it for centuries, and the end result is usually miserable in one form or another. (For the poster child - read "Portrait of Dorian Grey", but there are many other notable literary and real life examples). We all have a choice. Certain societal programming is forced onto us, but we have the choice to reject it. You have a choice right now. You could turn off your computer, go out and approach women. Do that 2 times a week and you'll have more "options" than you can count. Clearly, self limiting beliefs are tying you down. As for morals, morals are just human constructs that exist to take freedom away from people. Sure, there are some universal things like "don't kill other living beings" etc, but we're talking about moral rules that this society set up and so called "rules of etiquette", that exist solely to enslave people. Morals... ugh.. Excuses man, excuses. We can all live the life we dream of. It's all a matter of choice. Incidentally, most sleazy "immoral" guys are much happier than your average monogamous guy out there. And the only thing that matters in this short and precious life, is being happy.
espec10001 Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 We all have a choice. Certain societal programming is forced onto us, but we have the choice to reject it. You have a choice right now. You could turn off your computer, go out and approach women. Do that 2 times a week and you'll have more "options" than you can count. Clearly, self limiting beliefs are tying you down. As for morals, morals are just human constructs that exist to take freedom away from people. Sure, there are some universal things like "don't kill other living beings" etc, but we're talking about moral rules that this society set up and so called "rules of etiquette", that exist solely to enslave people. Morals... ugh.. Excuses man, excuses. We can all live the life we dream of. It's all a matter of choice. Incidentally, most sleazy "immoral" guys are much happier than your average monogamous guy out there. And the only thing that matters in this short and precious life, is being happy. And how would you know these immoral sleazy guys are happier?
Chicago_Guy Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Morals... ugh.. Excuses man, excuses. We can all live the life we dream of. It's all a matter of choice. Incidentally, most sleazy "immoral" guys are much happier than your average monogamous guy out there. And the only thing that matters in this short and precious life, is being happy. I'm pretty sure that I've seen studies that show that the average married man is happier than the average single man over a lifetime.
Sam Spade Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 We all have a choice. Certain societal programming is forced onto us, but we have the choice to reject it. You have a choice right now. You could turn off your computer, go out and approach women. Do that 2 times a week and you'll have more "options" than you can count. Clearly, self limiting beliefs are tying you down. As for morals, morals are just human constructs that exist to take freedom away from people. Sure, there are some universal things like "don't kill other living beings" etc, but we're talking about moral rules that this society set up and so called "rules of etiquette", that exist solely to enslave people. Morals... ugh.. Excuses man, excuses. We can all live the life we dream of. It's all a matter of choice. Incidentally, most sleazy "immoral" guys are much happier than your average monogamous guy out there. And the only thing that matters in this short and precious life, is being happy. nevermind, and by morals i clearly mean something more general than not screwing around or screwing (incidentally, I don't see anything 'immoral' in that). Anyway, many of the authors promoting the existentialist/nietzcheanian beliefs you subscribe to have had particularly miserable lives. Nietzsche himself for example, the kingpin of all that metaphorical assault on 'morality', has had relationship history limited even by the standards of 2 centuries ago (only to contract syphilis and die crazy and alienated.) Anyway, the whole idea that you can be anything you want to be is exciting, but it's just a gimmick. Humans are conditioned by social experiences in ways that they are even unaware of. There is an amazingly good show on AMC ("Breaking bad") just finished the 2nd seazon, about a guy, pathetic suburban teacher, who finds out he has deadly cancer and decides to enter the drug trade to leave some money his family after he dies. Well, the newfound freedom that this cancer gave him (i.e. to go after whatever he wants, take exiting risks unimaginable before that etc.) could only take him so far. The unexpected (and gross) consequences of his ultimately selfish actions eventually begin to catch up with him and are something that he cannot run away from no matter how liberated he feels due to his forthcoming death; (And now he's not dying anymore, because there has to be a 3rd seazon!!). Real life kingpins are not that much freer, in spite of their billions. So, anyway - unless you have achieved a life where you hop across continents without regard to laws, money, friends, women, or loyalties of any kind, living the life where you never have to count money, don't lecture me on how liberated you are (or I should be). There are plenty of people that are genuinely happy living in the suburbs, and holding woodworking workshops for kids. So there is no correlation between level of excitement and happiness. Back to women, while I of course agree that putting the effort will result in more options, I'm still not convinced it is worth it. Plus in order to do it, I'd need to dump my girlfriend, no ?
sally4sara Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 I'm pretty sure that I've seen studies that show that the average married man is happier than the average single man over a lifetime. It is hard to say much about the studies you mention. They never factor in the life time happiness of anyone who married but then divorced. So it really doesn't give a clear picture. I'm sure there are people who would've been happier single compared to how happy they were married and then divorced. It is like those longevity studies that say a married man lives longer than a single man. Perhaps, maybe, but how long does the angry divorced guy live? I see nothing wrong with men who wish to never marry. There are more and more women who also wish to not marry. To each their own so long as one poster put it, they don't lie to non compatible people just to get laid. I'd also say they should be more choosy to protect their more long term choice. I've had men who seemed pleased to have met me while I was not looking for anything serious, turn around and get in a twist when I don't change my mind and try to pin them down.... Another funny thing about the people who wish to never get married...... They still engage in all the activities that put them at risk for getting married and having children responsibilities. What with men more capable to spread STDs (especially ones with no way to test!), it makes me wonder why there is no vaccine aimed at men to prevent the spread. Condoms only do so much! Also, why are there no organizations aimed at men with a desire to never get "tied down" to become sterile despite age? They could always bank some sperm should they change their minds. Or a program for oral contraceptives for men? There seems to be no interest in any medical enabling of the Hugh Hefner life some men seem to admire. One would think if it is so awesome, there would be a club or treatment to make it more problem free. I've been hearing about such things since I was a child, but still - nothing ever came of it. Sometimes it seems the confirmed bachelors are very lazy (or not so confirmed) about ensuring their wonderful lifestyle choice.
Woggle Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 I'm pretty sure that I've seen studies that show that the average married man is happier than the average single man over a lifetime. You can pull out a study to prove any agenda you want. Certain people are ahppier in captivity and with the way men's independent streak has slowly been chipped at these past 20 years or so I can see why certain men are happier with a woman running their lives. That being said the happiest men I have know are the independent ones who run their own lives. Some marry and some don't but they live their life the way they want.
Sam Spade Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Sometimes it seems the confirmed bachelors are very lazy (or not so confirmed) about ensuring their wonderful lifestyle choice. The single most important reason why I'm not willing to get married any sooner is the sense of calm I get when I get back from work and plop on my couch with not a single worry in the world . That, and the occaisonal spontaneous weekend trip (which I alwarey have to finagle.coordinate with the girlfriend ). (The problem is that I don't seem to get bored, at least not yet, with reading the paper for 2 hours in the morning and having the couch all to myself.)
Woggle Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Of course Playboy is about male sexuality so shy don't women start their own thing. I barely any man complaining about Playgirl or Chippendales dancers. I am all for women having their own fun but don't try and stop men from having ours.
Jersey Shortie Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Jersey, you lost all credibility when you mentioned Barack Obama as someone "great [men] worthy of respect." I respect successful people who earn things on their own merits, and that sure as hell doesn't describe Obama. I'm not saying I look up to Hefner, but he least he's a self-made man. Well let me know when you make it into the Whitehouse and then we can talk about the supposed lack of merits Obama has. Clearly, self limiting beliefs are tying you down. As for morals, morals are just human constructs that exist to take freedom away from people. Or perhaps moral constructs give people freedoms that you wouldn't have thought. I feel more freedom in doing the right things in life then I do the bad. Because I don't believe that my life is all about me. I infact think the basic purpose of life is to do what you can for others. Sure, there are some universal things like "don't kill other living beings" etc, but we're talking about moral rules that this society set up and so called "rules of etiquette", that exist solely to enslave people. Does that extend to etiquette that is dished out to women as well? Such as women being called four letter names for enjoying sex with many partners and men being called superstars for the same? Morals... ugh.. Excuses man, excuses. We can all live the life we dream of. It's all a matter of choice. Incidentally, most sleazy "immoral" guys are much happier than your average monogamous guy out there. And the only thing that matters in this short and precious life, is being happy. I was always under the impression that people that lived sleazy "immoral" lives where more prone to bouts of depression, anger and unfilled lives.
Sam Spade Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Some marry and some don't but they live their life the way they want. There you go. As long as you don't sacrifice your whole self into being married with kids, no reason to equate marriage and monogamy with captivity. The problem is that for many men captivity seems to start with seemingly innocent sacrifices, until one day they wake up disgusting suburban dads with timid smiles and crocs on their feet. I am extra vigilant not to make too many "small sacrifices" in the name of a relationship. Indeed, I don't even want my future wife and kids to "like" me, but I'll make sure that they respect me, and as long as that holds true, I'll be a model father and husband.
sally4sara Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 The single most important reason why I'm not willing to get married any sooner is the sense of calm I get when I get back from work and plop on my couch with not a single worry in the world . That, and the occaisonal spontaneous weekend trip (which I alwarey have to finagle.coordinate with the girlfriend ). (The problem is that I don't seem to get bored, at least not yet, with reading the paper for 2 hours in the morning and having the couch all to myself.) These are not the things I mean when I say they seem lazy or not so confirmed about their choices. Besides, I am in a committed relationship and we both are able to do all you've listed. Whats to finagle about if you have a compatible partner? What I mean by what I said is they do not do the work to ensure their lifestyle choices are invulnerable. My uncle is the ideal I would think. He decided young that he wanted no wife and no children. He is sterile by choice. He only sleeps with women he knows and has witnessed to be without a want for a husband or children. Before these rules were adopted by him, he admits, he was little better than a stray cat and he lied all day long even to himself.
Woggle Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 There you go. As long as you don't sacrifice your whole self into being married with kids, no reason to equate marriage and monogamy with captivity. The problem is that for many men captivity seems to start with seemingly innocent sacrifices, until one day they wake up disgusting suburban dads with timid smiles and crocs on their feet. I am extra vigilant not to make too many "small sacrifices" in the name of a relationship. Indeed, I don't even want my future wife and kids to "like" me, but I'll make sure that they respect me, and as long as that holds true, I'll be a model father and husband. You keep giving and giving and giving but she is never satisfied until one day she has your balls in a complete vice grip. Most of these men still end up getting cheated on or walked out on anyway.
sally4sara Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 The single most important reason why I'm not willing to get married any sooner is the sense of calm I get when I get back from work and plop on my couch with not a single worry in the world . That, and the occaisonal spontaneous weekend trip (which I alwarey have to finagle.coordinate with the girlfriend ). (The problem is that I don't seem to get bored, at least not yet, with reading the paper for 2 hours in the morning and having the couch all to myself.) This is the NO. 1 reason why we bought a sectional.
Untouchable_Fire Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Morals... ugh.. Excuses man, excuses. We can all live the life we dream of. It's all a matter of choice. Incidentally, most sleazy "immoral" guys are much happier than your average monogamous guy out there. And the only thing that matters in this short and precious life, is being happy. I've been sleazy... and without a doubt I was less happy than I am today. Also, morals CREATE freedom. Without morals you have chaos, which limits freedom. Think of it in terms of a trained dog. A dog that has been well trained (has morals) is trusted, and allowed to go more places and do more things than a dog who is poorly trained (lacks morals). I believe life is about much more than self gratification. I wish to create a legacy, to have an impact. I will make my life more important than that of a foolish hedonist.
samspade Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Most women praise men who have the ability to remain faithful to one woman. That's why women love men like Paul Newman and Barak Obama. Most women say a lot of things, and do the complete opposite. You can talk all you want about what women praise or say they are looking for, but anyone with an ounce of intelligence knows to watch what people do rather than listen to what they say - especially females. That's not 100% true. Because one can just as easily argue that the notion of playing the field the rest of your life and having many partners is just as easily societal convention. Clearly, it isn't, or Hugh Hefner would be the rule instead of the exception. The pendulum is swinging that way, however, and hopefully fewer single people will feel pressured to "settle down" when that is not what they want. The fact is that evolution rewards male promiscuity, not monogamy, and those subconscious triggers exist whether we choose to suppress them or not. The same can be said of female promiscuity, but to a lesser degree, as a female also must look for (and keep) a "provider" to ensure her offspring survive. If she can find "survivor" genes and a "provider" partner (not always the same man), she's hit the jackpot. (This is why all men should get paternity tests for their children.)
Sam Spade Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 You keep giving and giving and giving but she is never satisfied until one day she has your balls in a complete vice grip. Most of these men still end up getting cheated on or walked out on anyway. It's a problem when a relationship is predicated on appeasing the woman. This usually starts with "Well, we've been dating for 3 years, I guess I should marry her", ready or not. Or in the worst of cases, always obsessing over pleasing her since day one. But, if you're just your happy self, period and manage to stick to it, things can be different. But, it is hard (especially given that the line between appeasement and sensible compromise is always blurry). The key challenge is not to walk away when disrespected - that's easy, and most sane guys will do it. The challenge is to recognise resentment and walk away once/if it begins to accumulate. And it can take a long while for this to become detectable. I think that men are envious of Hugh NOT because the life is so wonderful per se. But the dude's got a break from unreasonable expectations from women, and that's enviable.
Trialbyfire Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Most women say a lot of things, and do the complete opposite. You can talk all you want about what women praise or say they are looking for, but anyone with an ounce of intelligence knows to watch what people do rather than listen to what they say - especially females.Sounds to me like you don't understand women. What many of us say, we do want. That there maybe some other factors involved that trump the superficial requirements, is human nature. In other words, we don't always throw the baby out with the bathwater. Otherwise, every single male would always be rejected, since no one is perfect.
sally4sara Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 The fact is that evolution rewards male promiscuity, not monogamy, and those subconscious triggers exist whether we choose to suppress them or not. The same can be said of female promiscuity, but to a lesser degree, as a female also must look for (and keep) a "provider" to ensure her offspring survive. If she can find "survivor" genes and a "provider" partner (not always the same man), she's hit the jackpot. (This is why all men should get paternity tests for their children.) Not anymore. Since these things do not hold true (because we've evolved PAST that) it would be a sound move for men to evolve away a bit from their promiscuous standards of the past. They spread more STDs; some of which they cannot test to know they have. They cannot be certain of paternity without testing which cannot be obtained without consent. Once paternity is confirmed, they are monetarily obligated to that child whether the mother was someone they intended to mix their DNA with or not. These risks can be remedied with a less promiscuous lifestyle. Ahhhh evolution! You cannot recognize it for the sake of your argument and then turn around and live as though it doesn't exist without consequenses!
Surfer Dude Posted June 29, 2009 Posted June 29, 2009 Hey guys and girls, whatever floats your boat. Just don't go to the divorce forum later and complain how your perfect little 15 year marriage ended because the wife needed some time to herself (new cock) or your husband is having an affair with some "hoe" out there. People are not meant to be lifetime monogamous. Even tho I don't buy into monogamy, I still believe that short term monogamy (3-5 years) is possible. Anyway, I know plenty of guys who travel around the world, "intimately loving" various women and living for experiences instead of tangible end results. I'm one of them. But hey, I'm not forcing anything on anyone... whatever works for you... Am I happy? I wouldn't trade this lifestyle for anything.
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