bluejeanbebe Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 I'm not sure if this has been discussed in forums previously but, what are your thoughts on joint and/or separate checking accounts between you and your significant other as to sharing financial responsibilities (mortgage, etc)? We had another 'discussion' again last night, and of course, can't come to an agreement on anything. We were discussing how we would be handling money when we would be living together and after we were married. Granted, we're not even engaged, so all of this is theoretical. He was married for years and years previously and I've been single for awhile now, never married, so he thinks he knows so much more than me. He thinks that after we are married, that everything should go into an 'our money' account; and everything should come out of that, 'my bills', 'his bills' and 'our bills' and both of our incomes would go into that account. I think that is a recipe for disaster and think, that we should have separate accounts, plus one that we both put money into, for housing-related obligations. One, I think we both should have some money of our own that we don't have to answer to anyone else about; Two, I think it's a way to do it that would cause less fighting and; Three, he has 2 kids from his previous marriage that is responsible for child support and whatever else comes up. I don't think it would be fair that some of my money would have to contribute to that. I don't think he should be responsible for my personal debts and responsibilities, nor do I think I should have to contribute toward his. What if down the road, some large expenditure or emergency came along that had to do with the kids, and he had to clean out 'our' account to take care of his half. Suddenly I don't have a dime to my name because little johnny had to have his tonsils removed or something. And what about non-emergencies? What if when the older one starts driving, he wants to buy him a car? Heaven forbid I have anything to say about the boys, but nevernomind that it's my money too. The reason he says he wants just one 'our money' account is, he is just accusing me of: not being 'fully committed' to the relationship, wanting to retain my independence, and wanting free will to "waste" money. He says that I should just agree with everything he has to say, that I should never be annoyed with him and when I am annoyed, that I shouldn't voice them to him, that I should just 'let them go'. Everything that I get annoyed about to him is 'petty' to him. He also says that down the road, when I am a stay at home mom and he's working (assuming we ever get there, but it's not looking good now), that I should just go along with everything he says, because he would then be the finanial breadwinner. All of this just cinges my hyde. what do you guys think?
lora22 Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 what do you guys think? I think you shouldn't get married. Also think you shouldn't worry about something that isn't an issue yet (he hasn't proposed). Sounds like you two aren't a good match for each other. Couples need to work out their accounts and whatnot in a way that both people are comfortable with, and it sounds like you and he are polar opposites and can't find a way to "theoretically" compromise.
Eleventy Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 It's smart and reasonable to have separate accounts. Many successful couples handle money in this way. Since you both apparently have very different expenses, it's less problematic for you guys to separate things out. Managing finances has NOTHING to do with love and commitment but everything about keeping things fair, reasonable, and optimal when it comes to your spending and earning profiles so that things fall in line the best way possible. This guy sounds like he's got a real power trip going on or something and is being very unfair to you just because you're not agreeing to essentially give him that extra financial cushioning. It sounds like he has more expenses than you have, and I would agree that it is not your responsibility to financially support those extra expenses. Of course, this may end up being a dealbreaker for you guys if he absolutely insists that being together means you support each other in every way possible, including financially. I would have separate accounts dedicated to personal expenses (so that one person can't get upset at the other for spending money on something), and a joint account dedicated to shared expenses with reasonable allocations. You guys should come to a reasonable agreement FAST before you get married, otherwise it's a recipe for disaster. If he's going to constantly hold this "I don't need your opinion because I've been married before and therefore you don't know what you're talking about" attitude over your head, I would think twice about entering a relationship like that.
Trialbyfire Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 Approach to finances is one of the main reasons why people get divorced. I hope the two of you can find a happy compromise and stick to it, before getting engaged and heading down the aisle. I'm a big believer in separate finances, where you take the bills and allocate responsibility of payment to each person. Each person is responsible for their own investments and savings. This type of arrangement requires a lot of trust, in that you're each saving towards a joint future. I can save with no problems. My fiance is also fiscally responsible. Neither needs to monitor or control the other, since we're both adults.
sally4sara Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 I'm not sure if this has been discussed in forums previously but, what are your thoughts on joint and/or separate checking accounts between you and your significant other as to sharing financial responsibilities (mortgage, etc)? We had another 'discussion' again last night, and of course, can't come to an agreement on anything. We were discussing how we would be handling money when we would be living together and after we were married. Granted, we're not even engaged, so all of this is theoretical. He was married for years and years previously and I've been single for awhile now, never married, so he thinks he knows so much more than me. He thinks that after we are married, that everything should go into an 'our money' account; and everything should come out of that, 'my bills', 'his bills' and 'our bills' and both of our incomes would go into that account. I think that is a recipe for disaster and think, that we should have separate accounts, plus one that we both put money into, for housing-related obligations. One, I think we both should have some money of our own that we don't have to answer to anyone else about; Two, I think it's a way to do it that would cause less fighting and; Three, he has 2 kids from his previous marriage that is responsible for child support and whatever else comes up. I don't think it would be fair that some of my money would have to contribute to that. I don't think he should be responsible for my personal debts and responsibilities, nor do I think I should have to contribute toward his. What if down the road, some large expenditure or emergency came along that had to do with the kids, and he had to clean out 'our' account to take care of his half. Suddenly I don't have a dime to my name because little johnny had to have his tonsils removed or something. And what about non-emergencies? What if when the older one starts driving, he wants to buy him a car? Heaven forbid I have anything to say about the boys, but nevernomind that it's my money too. The reason he says he wants just one 'our money' account is, he is just accusing me of: not being 'fully committed' to the relationship, wanting to retain my independence, and wanting free will to "waste" money. He says that I should just agree with everything he has to say, that I should never be annoyed with him and when I am annoyed, that I shouldn't voice them to him, that I should just 'let them go'. Everything that I get annoyed about to him is 'petty' to him. He also says that down the road, when I am a stay at home mom and he's working (assuming we ever get there, but it's not looking good now), that I should just go along with everything he says, because he would then be the finanial breadwinner. All of this just cinges my hyde. what do you guys think? The first part I bolded is about how your ideals disqualify you for being a good step parent or someone who should get married to anyone with underage children. It is not an insult to you and I do not think less of you, but ou do need to recognize that you, right now, are not capable of viewing children that are not your own as a personal responsibility. That is your right - right now. You should keep it that way. The second part I bolded is to discuss the truely scarey and oppressive ideals held by your BF. You will never find a welcome audience for your concerns or any input you have that he didn't think of first or feel is important to him too. He does want you to lose your independence (financial and personal) and to be a quiet meek new incubator for more of his children. RUN! RUN NOW! I'm not kidding either!
clv0116 Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 I don't think your ideas are wrong as such but it seems to me your attitude about his previous life commitments is a little underwhelming; I don't see a lot of partnership there. My intentions when or if I get married are to create a joint account, but keep bills and savings going into and paid from a non-joint account. I will probably be either the sole or overwhelmingly majority breadwinner though so this essentially means things stay as they are financially except for grocery and entertainment funds siphoning into the joint account.
SoulSearch_CO Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Oh, gees. Having been married myself, before, I would NEVER go all joint account again. Having a joint account for JOINT expenses is cool. But putting ALL of both parties' money in it? Not cool. I went all joint account with my XH. At about year 3 of our marriage, I got sick of being blamed for the account going over. So I got my own personal account because I wanted to spend my own money without getting insulted. Oh, and lo and behold - the account HE kept kept going over and mine stayed in the black. Amazing. LOL Besides, I think it would have been nice to have my own account to be able to buy presents/surprises without tipping him off to what was going on. If I were to ever get married again, that's what I'd do - 3 accounts. His, hers, ours. If he's worried about the trust factor (because the point is not to HIDE what I'm spending...it's just to have my own control over my own money), then I'd offer to let him peruse my bank statements. I don't care about that. I do think it's important to know what kind of financial state your spouse is in.
Author bluejeanbebe Posted June 25, 2009 Author Posted June 25, 2009 whoa- lots of good advice and interesting viewpoints here. lora22- you say I shouldn't worry yet, but wouldn't you want to work out your 'issues' before they truly become 'issues'? S4S- yes, I may not win the award for world's best stepparent, but I'm not after it anyway. To me, it would be different if we had them full-time or most of the time; but we don't, it's every other weekend. It's my opinion for me to be a good mentor and leave it at that. That does not extend to financial responsibility. And some clarification on your second part, you may be right somewhat, but he's not the one pushing for kids and me staying home- that's me. If it were up to him, I think, we would just be in a committed relationship together forever and leave it at that. But since he knows that I want marriage, children, and to be a stay-at-home mom, then he's working on providing that for me. clv0116- my attitude may be a little underwhelming, because i don't feel (financially) responsible for something that I don't have anything to do with; anymore than I would expect him to contribute towards the credit card bill I'm trying to pay down. and I guess he's raising cain about this whole joint checking thing is because he thinks 'entertainment' should come out of the 'our money' pot, and I don't, because I think that is on-par with us splitting the bill everytime we went out to eat or went out of town. to everyone else- thanks for having my back!
zilverenvlinder Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 As a bank employee, I'll be the first to tell you that the people that spend thousands of dollars in overdraft charges a year are couples that do not have separate checking accounts. Be warned. Also, if all of your money is going into one joint account, and he decides to fly the coop one day and go to Mexico and drains the account...guess what? He is allowed to take all of that money, and you will never get it back. This has happened to many many of my customers. Also, if he fails to pay child support, and you are a signer on the account with him, guess what? They're going to go after him first, and then they're going to garnish YOUR wages. That's right. There's THREE reasons that you are right. DON'T sway your ideals. He sounds like he doesn't want you to have any independence. I would be wary of this fella. <3always z
lora22 Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 lora22- you say I shouldn't worry yet, but wouldn't you want to work out your 'issues' before they truly become 'issues'? Sure I do, but I don't have an idea of whether or not your relationship is moving in that direction. YOU do, but all you mentioned was that this was your bf, he hasn't proposed, and you were having a hypothetical conversation. It also sounds to me like you two really can't and don't agree about this - so in my mind this is a huge issue, and since you're not close to being married, you should probably break up, since this sounds like you're not compatible. As someone said, the number one argument with married couples involves money. I personally agree with you about separate checking accounts; however, me being on your side and thinking the same way as you doesn't really help you with your disagreement with your bf. Having a dozen people on a dating forum share YOUR opinion isn't going to change your bf's viewpoint. It sounds like you've thought this out, and have logical reasons for feeling the way you do, so who cares if we agree with you or not? On top of that, the stuff you added at the end of your OP is an issue separate from separate checking accounts (although they are kind of tied together, in that he seems to want to limit your independence). Either way it sounds like you both want totally different things, so why are you still with him?
NoTNorMal Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 If i ever did get another girlfriend (it's been more than a coon's age) i'd want her to have anything she wants; i don't like materialistic people though. If i were marry her, she'd need to be into giving more than taking. We would share everything for the good of the world and our children, grand-children, and soon. So far in my girlfriend hunting, i've found it is a lot like finding a bunny in a dog pen after your vacnation.
sally4sara Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 whoa- lots of good advice and interesting viewpoints here. lora22- you say I shouldn't worry yet, but wouldn't you want to work out your 'issues' before they truly become 'issues'? S4S- yes, I may not win the award for world's best stepparent, but I'm not after it anyway. To me, it would be different if we had them full-time or most of the time; but we don't, it's every other weekend. It's my opinion for me to be a good mentor and leave it at that. That does not extend to financial responsibility. And some clarification on your second part, you may be right somewhat, but he's not the one pushing for kids and me staying home- that's me. If it were up to him, I think, we would just be in a committed relationship together forever and leave it at that. But since he knows that I want marriage, children, and to be a stay-at-home mom, then he's working on providing that for me. I'm confused... If you wish to be the SAHM, where will you be getting money to put in your separate checking account? What pool of money do you propose the kids he already has get their expenses paid from if not your potential single bread-winning husband's salary?
stace79 Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Three problems here: 1. You have differing opinions on how money should be managed. If you truly love the guy and want things to work, why not see a financial advisor together to get an unbiased opinion? They could give you recommendations on ways you could both be happy and working toward common financial goals. 2. Your SO is not listening to your opinions, and that is a huge issue as I'm going through something similar right now with my fiance. Even if he doesn't always agree, he needs to at least listen and respect the fact that you have beliefs, as well. 3. If you are going to marry a man with children, you're going to have to accept them. I believe that means helping care for them. Are you going to get mad whenever he has them and wants to take the whole "family" out to dinner? Are you going to insist that his ex send money for them to eat on or for entertainment whenever they are with you guys? I would not be thrilled about "my" money going to someone else's children either, which is likely why I'd never marry a man with children from a previous relationship. Something to think about. This may not be the right man for you.
blind_otter Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 I was just wondering, after you become a stay at home mom, where does the money for your personal account come from? I had one when I quit working last year when my son was 8 weeks old - but it got to be a hassle asking for money from my S/O and then putting it into my bank account. Now we just have one joint account, but since I stay at home I make the lion's share of parenting and household decisions. Anyways - I have a SS. I love him, care for him, and feel financially responsible for him. He is my "bonus son" now - not just some extra person that I am odiously forced to deal with because I am attached to his father. If you don't start to look at your step children as part of your family, you will not have a successful partnership with your BF in the longterm. And from personal experience I can tell you, if you don't accept his older children then once you have your own with him, it will be hell. I expect that becoming a stay at home mother will be a massively huge wake up call for you. I wish I had the time to explain in detail, but it wouldn't make any difference anyways. You can't really know until you're "in the trenches" so to speak. Best of luck, though.
norajane Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 He says that I should just agree with everything he has to say, that I should never be annoyed with him and when I am annoyed, that I shouldn't voice them to him, that I should just 'let them go'. Everything that I get annoyed about to him is 'petty' to him. He also says that down the road, when I am a stay at home mom and he's working (assuming we ever get there, but it's not looking good now), that I should just go along with everything he says, because he would then be the finanial breadwinner.I don't think you two will make it to marriage. If he expects you to never get annoyed, to shut up about it if you are annoyed, and to always go along with his decisions, how long do you expect to be able to handle that without wanting to kill him? As to the checking accounts, each couple works out what is best for them. You two see things very differently, polar opposites, so it will be difficult to work out. And he doesn't seem in favor of any compromise or trying different things out to see what works best over time. This probably isn't the only thing you two don't see eye to eye on. Is he much older than you? Do you come from very different family/social backgrounds?
Lucky_One Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Sometimes posts like this remind me of the Redbook column (I think it's Redbook) "Can This Marriage Be Saved?" The wife starts off with this huge list of complaints about what an uncaring jerk her H is, and you nod your head and agree that there are some huge issues there even while you notice some little niggling things that the wife is doing and glossing over. And then when the H starts in on his side, those niggling things are pretty big, and his uncaring attitude becomes more understandable yet still irritating. Then the counselor starts in with The Truth. I wonder what the BF would be saying here, about the OP's desire for "free will to 'waste' [sic] money" and her lack of providing for a truly joint relationship which includes truly joint children. But from the entire standpoint of the step-parenting issues and the lack of willingness to see prior children as a legitimate "thing" to spend joint money on, I don't see much need to worry about a joint checking account or an engagement, anyway. When you marry someone, you take on their credit card debt (how much do you have anyway??) as well as their kids.
stace79 Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 But from the entire standpoint of the step-parenting issues and the lack of willingness to see prior children as a legitimate "thing" to spend joint money on, I don't see much need to worry about a joint checking account or an engagement, anyway. When you marry someone, you take on their credit card debt (how much do you have anyway??) as well as their kids. I agree with this. I feel if she really met The One she was supposed to marry, she would be more open to truly sharing everything -- debts, step-children, etc. I don't think she's bad for not wanting to, but I don't think she should be in this relationship either.
Eleventy Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 I mean it all depends on whether or not they are compatible with their views. Some people think sharing everything means also sharing debts. Others think debts need to be kept personal. As long as a couple agrees on what is what, then it's fine. But in this case, clearly they have different views and different desires when it comes to how to set up their finances. That's going to cause a lot of problems. Although there is a much more vital issue here pertaining to this dude's attitude... he just acts like his word is the be-all-end-all and anything else need not be considered. "Just agree with me" is hardly good compromising. Is he constantly going to hold that over the OP's head? "I know more than you, I have more experience, you're not committed, just agree to everything I say and don't make this difficult"? There's no way that's going to work out.
Lyssa Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 My fiance and I have separate accounts. We have never realy talked about having a joint account - we did, however, played with the idea of having one in the future for our house utility bills, groceries etc. He has 2 children from his previous marriage and he has a account for them - education, health etc. I don't have any children but I do have a monthly amount put aside for me to spoil them or help him out (if need be) in the future. For now, it works out well for both of us. If anything, I think the only thing that would make it hard for you is your BF's attitude about how he knows better just because he's been married once!
Thornton Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 3. If you are going to marry a man with children, you're going to have to accept them. I believe that means helping care for them. Are you going to get mad whenever he has them and wants to take the whole "family" out to dinner? Are you going to insist that his ex send money for them to eat on or for entertainment whenever they are with you guys? In my opinion, if he wants to take his family out for dinner, he should pay for it out of his own money. I'm not married, but if I had a child and my husband also had a child from a previous relationship, in my mind I would have financial responsibility for one child and he would have financial responsibility for two. It would be up to him how he split his money between his two children, but my money should be mine. The way I see it is that his child would also have another set of parents to get money from (mum and stepdad) while mine would not, so I would want to keep my money for my own child. That's not to say I wouldn't choose voluntarily to spend some of my money on his child sometimes, on gifts etc, but I don't think I should be obliged to pay part of the child support to his ex. I wouldn't mind buying gifts specifically for his child, a computer or a car or whatever, what would rile me is the thought of giving my cash to his ex. OP, I think your solution is perfectly reasonable: one joint account for expenses and all of your other accounts should remain separate. This has the advantage that if you separate he can't clean you out, because he can't touch your personal accounts, only the joint account. My ex and I used to do this: every month we paid an identical amount into the joint account to cover rent and bills and food, and the rest went into our personal accounts. He had a higher salary than me, so after paying into the joint account he was left with more cash to put into his personal account, which seemed fair to me because he earned more. There was usually enough extra in the joint account after monthly expenses to pay for unexpected expenses or the occasional dinner or day out, and we both took turns to treat the other person to dinner or movies etc out of our personal money. When we separated, the only thing we had to split was the joint account, 50/50 because we had both paid exactly the same amount in. Your partner only wants joint finances because it will benefit him since he has more expenses - you can bet your ass that if he was earning a lot more and had less expenses, or if you had a huge amount of debt, he wouldn't be so keen to have joint finances. Plus you obviously feel you can't trust him with joint money - for example you think he would have the right to spend all of your joint money on an emergency relating to his kids, without consulting you about this use of your joint money. If it was truly joint money, you should have the right to say no to such expenditure. Ultimately your money will be safer in a personal account, the joint account should only contain roughly what is necessary to meet joint expenditure.
2sure Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Has your partner mentioned that when you marry and file a joint tax return - his child support will increase? Most states demand a minimum court ordered amount of 17-22% of the non custodial parents GROSS from their tax return. Higher of course depending on the number of children. When you combine incomes, your income will be part of this gross. Your expenses, like children of your own after the marriage will not be considered. Additionally, his percentage of other expenses he has to pay will increase. For example - if he earns more than the custodial parent he would have to pay say 70% of shared expenses like day care, tuition, medical, orthodontics. When you file jointly, his percentage will increase. Now, he may already be paying more than the court ordered minimum or his ex may make more that you and he so these may not apply. Just interesting if he hasnt mentioned this to you in the all the talk of combining things.
stace79 Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 In my opinion, if he wants to take his family out for dinner, he should pay for it out of his own money. I'm not married, but if I had a child and my husband also had a child from a previous relationship, in my mind I would have financial responsibility for one child and he would have financial responsibility for two. It would be up to him how he split his money between his two children, but my money should be mine. The way I see it is that his child would also have another set of parents to get money from (mum and stepdad) while mine would not, so I would want to keep my money for my own child. That's not to say I wouldn't choose voluntarily to spend some of my money on his child sometimes, on gifts etc, but I don't think I should be obliged to pay part of the child support to his ex. I wouldn't mind buying gifts specifically for his child, a computer or a car or whatever, what would rile me is the thought of giving my cash to his ex. Wow... I think this is really a selfish point of view and you should never marry someone with children from a previous marriage. When you get married, it should no longer be about "mine" and "yours". Just ours. The idea of having separate and joint accounts should not be about mine or yours, but about having a little flexibility to buy gifts or save for something special for yourself. My niece and nephew's stepmom was the way you are describing, and we have a special four-letter word beginning with C to describe her. She refused to spend money on my niece & nephew, but would lavish gifts on her own children from a previous marriage. It was very much like Cinderella and the wicked stepmother/stepsisters.
Sam Spade Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Both of you are screwed up, seriously . He's too oblivious/nonchalant; irresponsible, perhaps? And you're too uptight and 'careful' . Unless *both* of you find a way to move a bit towards the middle, this marriage is going to be a mess . More generally, I think that it is a good idea to have both joint and separate accounts.
clv0116 Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 clv0116- my attitude may be a little underwhelming, because i don't feel (financially) responsible for something that I don't have anything to do with; anymore than I would expect him to contribute towards the credit card bill I'm trying to pay down. You're sure you want to be married? It just doesn't sound like ti to me.
Thornton Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Has your partner mentioned that when you marry and file a joint tax return - his child support will increase? Most states demand a minimum court ordered amount of 17-22% of the non custodial parents GROSS from their tax return. Higher of course depending on the number of children. When you combine incomes, your income will be part of this gross. Your expenses, like children of your own after the marriage will not be considered. Additionally, his percentage of other expenses he has to pay will increase. For example - if he earns more than the custodial parent he would have to pay say 70% of shared expenses like day care, tuition, medical, orthodontics. When you file jointly, his percentage will increase. Now, he may already be paying more than the court ordered minimum or his ex may make more that you and he so these may not apply. Just interesting if he hasnt mentioned this to you in the all the talk of combining things. I was curious about this so I mentioned it to a colleague who recently married his third wife, and he assures me this is not necessarily the case. When he married his second wife his child support payments for his kids with his first wife did not increase, and when he divorced his second wife and married his third wife his payments still remained the same. He said child support is calculated as a percentage of the father's income, and the only way it changes is if his income or expenditure significantly increase or decrease. So for example if he earned more money his CS payments would increase, whereas if he had another child to support (with his new wife) he would be liable to pay less CS. It is NOT calculated based on his wife's income too - if that were the case nobody would ever marry a man with kids and couples would file separate tax returns.
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