I lose major respect for unintelligent girls and I feel disgusted

[Eleventy]

Have you ever read Daniel Goleman's books on Emotional Intelligence? The message I got from them was that emotional intelligence is essentially about understanding your (and other people's) emotions and therefore being better able to manage them. He states that "a tendency to act is implicit in every emotion", and follows that with a brief description of the main emotions we encounter in daily life. Fear, anger, love, happiness, surprise, disgust and sadness.

 

The main rationale behind suggesting that emotional intelligence can matter more than IQ is that a genius in a technical area might have so little insight into his own and other people's emotional mechanics that despite the high IQ he or she will slip into destructive behavioural patterns and relationships.

 

I don't think it follows that just because a person has a high IQ they have low emotional intelligence. That always strikes me as something that comes from the sour grapes "booksmart people lack common sense" school of thinking. On the other hand, history has presented us with plenty of examples of astoundingly intelligent people who didn't manage life very well.

 

A person might be dryly logical, like Spock, but make the mistake of dismissing the importance of emotions on the basis that they're not rational. They are, in fact, often very rational - but they're designed to help us in crisis situations (anger giving us added strength for a fight, grief helping us to attract people who will give us temporary nurturing) rather than being effective longer term coping mechanisms. Logic and emotion can work very well together if you recognise the strengths and limitations of both.

 

Agreed 100%, this is how I view the subject. This is also why I am a bit confused why so many people seem to be okay with this flaw.

[Art_Critic]

IMO.. you are committing the same crime you are holding them accountable for..

 

Do realize that judging someone for being unintelligent or "stupid" could be seen by others as somewhat unintelligent or "stupid" in itself ?

 

I'll also bet that people you see as unintelligent or "stupid" also have their own strengths and might be considered smarter than most on those subjects..

 

We all have are strengths and we all have our weaknesses...

[Taramere]

Agreed 100%, this is how I view the subject. This is also why I am a bit confused why so many people seem to be okay with this flaw.

 

Well, none of us can see the relationship in its entirety. We don't know if this girl is so illogical that her life is going to be complete chaos - or if she was just trying to be ditzy-cute re the arithmetic problem. Some men like to see dumbness in women. Maybe because they associate it with femininity/inability to fend for oneself and that makes them feel smarter and stronger....not to mention needed.

 

Why don't you have a conversation with her about that? Test out her thoughts on whether it's a good or a bad idea for a woman to play dumb around a man. Share some of your thoughts on the subject. Outline the difference (as you perceive it) between cute or eccentric silliness and a worrying/offputting/annoying lack of logic.

 

Do you know where you would draw the line there? Is it a case of any sign of illogicality at all presses your buttons, or are there some bits and pieces of slightly illogical behaviour that you're okay with - and maybe even find fun/endearing?

[Eleventy]

Art Critic: As I've said in this thread, I fully understand and agree with that. But I wonder which strengths, then, are needed for a good relationship and which weaknesses would be hindrances in most cases. That's simply my concern.

[Eleventy]

Well, none of us can see the relationship in its entirety. We don't know if this girl is so illogical that her life is going to be complete chaos - or if she was just trying to be ditzy-cute re the arithmetic problem. Some men like to see dumbness in women. Maybe because they associate it with femininity/inability to fend for oneself and that makes them feel smarter and stronger....not to mention needed.

 

Why don't you have a conversation with her about that? Test out her thoughts on whether it's a good or a bad idea for a woman to play dumb around a man. Share some of your thoughts on the subject. Outline the difference (as you perceive it) between cute or eccentric silliness and a worrying/offputting/annoying lack of logic.

 

Do you know where you would draw the line there? Is it a case of any sign of illogicality at all presses your buttons, or are there some bits and pieces of slightly illogical behaviour that you're okay with - and maybe even find fun/endearing?

 

Good idea.

 

I do find clumsiness/certain illogical statements/cuteness endearing and fun for the reasons you've described, depending on the situation. But usually, I think, people would find those things cute when there's some sort of external contrast. As in, if a person is otherwise intelligent/loving/kind/whatever, then we are more forgiving of mistakes and we see them as cute little blunders. There's a difference between that and having a genuine deficiency when it comes to something basic and rudimentary such that it comes across as mentally incompetent or uneducated.

 

(Just for the record I am not really holding any of this against her. I'm still choosing to look past the issue because she's a great woman otherwise. I'm just interested in debating this topic for the sake of the subject at hand.)

[Art_Critic]

Art Critic: As I've said in this thread, I fully understand and agree with that. But I wonder which strengths, then, are needed for a good relationship and which weaknesses would be hindrances in most cases. That's simply my concern.

 

It isn't as simple as being able to list which ones make a good relationship work..

 

What it takes is compatibility in those areas of strengths and weaknesses.... ie:

 

For each of my weaknesses that I have I like to think my wife has what I am lacking to balance things out.. and vise versa...

 

I know you are trying to break it down to intelligence but that isn't possible.. even the smartest people in the world have relationship difficulties...

[Eleventy]

I know they have relationship difficulties. Relationships imply compatibility and cohesion in various aspects. Is that cohesion enough, you think, or is there something that needs to be objectively present?

[butcher's hook]

I do find clumsiness/certain illogical statements/cuteness endearing and fun for the reasons you've described, depending on the situation. But usually, I think, people would find those things cute when there's some sort of external contrast. As in, if a person is otherwise intelligent/loving/kind/whatever, then we are more forgiving of mistakes and we see them as cute little blunders. There's a difference between that and having a genuine deficiency when it comes to something basic and rudimentary such that it comes across as mentally incompetent or uneducated.

 

 

You know, you make a lot of sense and everything you just said makes you sound like you really have a clear picture of what it is that makes you tick (either way) when it comes to people. I think your understanding of how to view intelligence in terms of what you find attractive is quite healthy.

 

At this point are you still struggling on what to do with your current girl or are you just responding to people because the thread is still going? I am just curious to know since that would contradict what you have just said.

[Art_Critic]

I know they have relationship difficulties. Relationships imply compatibility and cohesion in various aspects. Is that cohesion enough, you think, or is there something that needs to be objectively present?

 

Love and relationships are just a crap shoot Eleventy..

No formula can predict human emotion between 2 people..

 

Nothing is guaranteed, sometimes you just have to jump off that mountain top to experience what it is like to fly...

 

We all like to think that compatibility and cohesion is enough when we make that leap off the mountain top but honestly for some people, it isn't enough.. for some it is.., but we all know that we have to leap in order to live or in order to find out if it was enough...

[Eleventy]

Art: While experience is of course vital, I mean, people don't just reject each other for nothing. At some point people take a stand and say "This will not work out for me."

 

Ie., do we really need to just jump off the mountain to know what it's like to fly, or can we tell from the summit that jumping is only going to hurt in the end?

 

If intelligence is important, as I do think it is, at what point is it appropriate to draw the line? When can we say someone is emotionally unintelligent, as I do agree that is more important for a relationship. But I do not think emotional intelligence and "analytical" intelligence are as independent as most people think. They are intertwined, and so to lack something in one area may have adverse effects elsewhere.

[butcher's hook]

If intelligence is important, as I do think it is, at what point is it appropriate to draw the line? When can we say someone is emotionally unintelligent, as I do agree that is more important for a relationship. But I do not think emotional intelligence and "analytical" intelligence are as independent as most people think. They are intertwined, and so to lack something in one area may have adverse effects elsewhere.

 

 

It's very personal, everyone has been basically telling you the same thing. You need to figure that out on your own.

 

Typically speaking when the bad outweighs the good people seek change.

[dreamergrl]

Relationships aren't a math problem, there's no concrete correct answer. There's no logic, or specific reasoning. This is why there's so much more to a person then if they can do math. What makes a person tick on the inside plays a much bigger part in who they are. You can analyze all you want, but it wont get you any where. Learn to accept people for who they are.

 

I bet if your gf saw all this, she'd be running for her life and finding a new guy pretty flippin' quick. I would.

[butcher's hook]

Relationships aren't a math problem, there's no concrete correct answer. There's no logic, or specific reasoning. This is why there's so much more to a person then if they can do math. What makes a person tick on the inside plays a much bigger part in who they are. You can analyze all you want, but it wont get you any where. Learn to accept people for who they are.

 

 

Beautifully said!

[Lizzie60]

You know, that makes a lot of sense, actually.

 

Growing up, my parents never really praised me or anything. I'd do everything "right" and yet get harsher punishments than my brother who did absolutely nothing. I'd see other parents praise their kids for certain things and wonder why my parents didn't care if I was consistently able to do better.

 

Maybe this has made me too critical of others? "Nothing is ever good enough to warrant a response" sort of mentality? I don't know.

 

Lizzie60: I actually have not been rude to her at all, just a bit shorter with my responses than usual.

 

Oh... since you wrote this (below)... I thought...

 

I lose interest in talking to them altogether and I get very cruel and short with them.

[Eleventy]

Relationships aren't a math problem, there's no concrete correct answer. There's no logic, or specific reasoning. This is why there's so much more to a person then if they can do math. What makes a person tick on the inside plays a much bigger part in who they are. You can analyze all you want, but it wont get you any where. Learn to accept people for who they are.

 

I bet if your gf saw all this, she'd be running for her life and finding a new guy pretty flippin' quick. I would.

 

 

Dreamer, honestly For the last time. It's NOT just because of math ability.

 

 

Lizzie60: I posted earlier in this thread that much of the OP I said in anger. I do tend to get a bit short, yes, but I am hardly cruel to this girl at all.

[Eleventy]

I feel like I am either not articulating myself correctly or people are misunderstanding my question.

 

Take for instance what you just said -- based on what you've read of my responses in this thread, you say you'd be running away pretty quick.

 

Could I not just spit the same argument back at you? "There's more to me than my flaw of perhaps judging someone's mental capacity too quickly."

 

Obviously you draw the line at certain points and extrapolate these preferences to other dealbreakers. Are you telling me it's all 100% empirical for you?

[dreamergrl]

Dreamer, honestly For the last time. It's NOT just because of math ability.

 

 

Lizzie60: I posted earlier in this thread that much of the OP I said in anger. I do tend to get a bit short, yes, but I am hardly cruel to this girl at all.

 

OMG, I'm seriously considering going back, and quoted all the times you reverted back to 'The Math Problem' ... how it is a fine example of how she will be in the future.

[Eleventy]

Right, I do feel that it is all perhaps indicative of other issues based on the other factors I've brought up in this thread.

[Bayern]

In this case, you have no reason to to feel any differently. I mean, that's just pretty bad in all honesty.

 

There are things that can make up for a lack of intelligence though. Being lazy, as she showed, is not one of them. Trying hard to learn or being open-minded can often be a positive quality if you look at it one way.

 

My passion in history has let me see a lot of this. Girls don't know the most basic dates or events in history, but it's in their reaction that can tell you something. If, for example, they ask me for an explanation of the date, what happend and show a general interest, it's not a bad thing. In fact for me, it's quite a good thing to teach her. On the other hand, if she is non-responsive or lazy about learning then it's another story altogether.

 

Valuing intelligence is not something to be ashamed of, but try to look at the whole picture. If it's too overpowering, sure - it can't work. If there are traits (and I don't mean 'Oh she's sexy as hell') that can balance it out (or in my opinion even make it better) then I don't think it's anything to worry about. Good luck.

[Jersey Shortie]

Ie., do we really need to just jump off the mountain to know what it's like to fly, or can we tell from the summit that jumping is only going to hurt in the end?

 

You can tell from the summet that jumping is only going to hurt. But you don't need to stand at the summit for 40 days and 40 nights berating it either just because it can't give you what you need once you reach the top.

 

And this isn't meant to be a slight at you but I am sure there are many ways you don't meet up to her idealized desires either.

 

 

If intelligence is important, as I do think it is, at what point is it appropriate to draw the line? When can we say someone is emotionally unintelligent, as I do agree that is more important for a relationship. But I do not think emotional intelligence and "analytical" intelligence are as independent as most people think. They are intertwined, and so to lack something in one area may have adverse effects elsewhere

 

I have alot of experience with very bright men that were sorely lacking on emotional intelligence. There are all matters of people and intelligence. Is someone that is analytically intelligent emotionally not? Not always, of course not. I someone that is analytically smart, emotionally smart, not necessarily no.

 

I wish you would give this a girl a shot with a man/boy her age that could possibly think she is wonderful instead of having to bit his lip at what he thinks is her supposed stupidity.

[Kamille]

If intelligence is important, as I do think it is, at what point is it appropriate to draw the line? When can we say someone is emotionally unintelligent, as I do agree that is more important for a relationship. But I do not think emotional intelligence and "analytical" intelligence are as independent as most people think. They are intertwined, and so to lack something in one area may have adverse effects elsewhere.

 

What you found troublesome about the situation is how she went about problem solving. Had I thrown a simple math question at you and you were having an off day, you would have picked up your cell phone or a calculator. (Is it possible she simply doesn't know her cell phone has a calculator? Or, if she knows, she doesn't know where it is? I mean, I'm a fairly intelligent person, I know my phone has a calculator but I never use it so I have no idea where it is... In this instance, I might call someone I have an easy-going relationship with to help me out of a brain fart.)

 

A math question is a logical problem. How people go about solving logical problems is a mix of analysis, logics, intuition, context, emotions and, in relationships, trust and interaction.

 

The problem here is that you're trying to figure out if the two of you could solve a problem together, yet the example you use isn't usually one where two people need to figure something out. Here, the math question isn't the problem. The problem is that you're worried because you think she sould have been able to solve this problem without turning to you (I still think she just used the first excuse available to get in touch with you). I think people are arguing so much about intelligence because the example that worries you is actually a bad example of what makes or breaks a couple in tough situations. There is no way for us to know if she has the problem-solving skills that are fundamental for the two you to work as a couple based on the example you provided. No one's relationship here as ever depended on their partner's ability to answer a math question.

 

Imagine another scenario: you're out camping, and the two of you have to put up a tent without the instructions. For this, you will need the ability to work together as well as a good degree of logical thinking. How do you imagine this scenario playing out? Who is going to predominantly hold what role according to you (logics vs making sure you work well together)?

[dreamergrl]

 

The other day, a girl I've been seeing (she is 17 years old) sent me a text message asking what 21 - 28 was (reason is unimportant). I was shocked and figured it was a trick question or prank somehow. Nope. She was serious. I asked why she would need to ask me something so simple... something that you should know how to do when you're at least in 1st or 2nd grade!

 

"How can you not look at that and immediately see the answer? It requires no thought. It's the same as 28 - 21 and slapping a negative sign on it."

 

I mean what if it came to finances down the road? "Oh I have $300 and so I spent $500 on my card so I'll only be $5 in debt! Or was it $50?" You know? I mean, it's not like I am demanding someone to be a math genius or anything, but not being able to do the most basic of calculations honestly scares me.

 

My problem is that I don't know if I should be this harsh. SHOULD it scare me?

 

I had considered that possibility too... but I had asked her a few times if she was actually serious and she definitely said yes. She just looked at it and the answer just didn't jump out at her for whatever reason and so she felt the need to text me. I just can't fathom this.

 

I mean, even if she knew how to do that question, SoulSearch, shouldn't she realize that making such a question seem intentional would be a bad idea in itself? I'd rather not try to get a girl's attention by asking her something that would put her impression of my mental capability in jeopardy.

 

Unless she knew how to do it all along and is just grinning behing the scenes at the fact that she knows how to rile me up. But I doubt she would troll me like that, haha. It felt like she was legitimately asking me what the answer was.

 

I'll have to investigate a bit further later to see if it was just a playful ploy or something else... although, even assuming she had trouble with that trouble in a worst-case scenario, I'm not sure how I feel about it. I have very strong feelings for this girl, but I feel like I can't allow myself to fall for someone who has so much trouble with simple things like that. I try to imagine what other implications it may have, and it is a bit startling.

 

And, yes, I have had many conversations with her. She's said a few off-things, but they were cute in nature. I guess I am taking this too seriously?

 

And I guess I am, in a way, trying to keep a foot out the door. I've had bad relationships in the past and so I don't want to commit to something I know isn't going to work out for me. The problem is that I think I've become oversensitive to the notion. In this case, she's a great girl. I've dated plenty of girls, and although the age gap may be a *bit* big for our ages, she's amazingly sweet and more empathetic and loving than any other girls I've met.

 

She isn't the most analytical person out there, no. But she is very good with art and occasionally she will come back at me with a witty quip that makes me smile. We have fun talking to one another, and we have very similar interests. It's just that I worry what implications may lie in one's inability to do something that (in my opinion) is so basic that nearly anyone could solve it.

 

Well I am an artist as well (one of our common interests), but she is certainly better than me when it comes to art. I am very analytical/mathematical in nature (I attended a business school).

 

I don't *think* she's an imbecile or anything, but it may be too early to tell? I've only known her for maybe a month. I got the impression that she was a tad spoiled and perhaps immature when it came to anger (she tends to get a bit short with people who make a joke at her expense), but she never said anything that I felt was an indicator that she was mentally incompetent until this math thing.

 

dreamergrl: Thing is, everything else is great. "Accepting what comes with high schoolers" was definitely something I did. However, not being able to do a simple math problem does not usually come with that territory, hence my concern.

 

Maybe if I asked the question to a 2nd grader and they couldn't get it, I wouldn't be so harsh. But a senior in high school? It baffles me because she's apparently quite involved at her school (primarily art-related things), although I don't know how she does academically.

 

I think you are right. I also feel that stargazer is right that the age has an impact, here. The things that bother me are, of course, things that you'd expect of a high schooler, I suppose. But the fact that she's trying to work is a good sign, and I talked to her already about learning where to pick your fights and that it's not always worth getting riled up over things that don't really matter. I suppose I should heed my own advice here, haha!

 

Thing is, even with these other issues, I can accept those. It's just this darn math thing, lmao.

 

Taramere:

 

Agreed on the gauging. While one point doesn't equal a trend it's just that I'm combining various things together here ("your," the math problem, etc) and worrying, perhaps needlessly.

 

In terms of those issues, they're always a concern for me. I don't like the idea of dating anyone unless I can see something long term down the road. No real particular reason for it -- it's just a preference. Otherwise I feel like "casually dating" for the sake of dating isn't worth the effort (although it does have its merits).

 

It could be linked, but I don't really know for certain. Even if they were linked, how would I reconcile that notion?

 

This is how I feel too.

 

 

 

By the way:

I just texted her: "What is 52 minus 56?"

"Negative four?"

";P just teasin you."

"Jerk lol."

 

"Anyways I am sorry for my math comments earlier... I was just thrown a bit off-guard, that's all."

"Oh it's okay"

 

Crap! Still no indication that she was just playing around.

 

I know it seems silly. I just can't believe someone would need to text me that question... still can't get over that.

 

But hey she got that question right So maybe it was just a brainfart of some sort. Maybe a really, really big one.

 

Jersey: The truth though is that both are important. Emotional intelligence is not enough in most cases. Love is great but there are certain elements of pragmatism that need to exist for things to work. Life throws all sorts of situations at you, and having emotional intelligence is not going to get you through those tough obstacles.

 

Perhaps I was being a bit harsh, yes. I was in a bad mood when I wrote that OP. I do not think she is "useless" or anything like that. It's just that there are certain elements to her education that are lacking and it makes me question whether or not I can see myself with her in the long term (which is the only way I can focus on someone for dating). It's more an issue of "If I had to trust her with something important, how well can I rely on her ability to solve problems and reason things out logically?" If you can't do simple subtraction, odds are you aren't going to be able to streamline/facilitate your own processes for reaching a conclusion to a problem adequately.

 

Like I keep envisioning a scenario where I may need to count on her for something or to overcome some problem with her, only to find that she's incapable of doing anything on her own, even at the most simplistic of levels.

 

lora22: Certainly, I agree that just because she lacks abilities in those areas, it doesn't mean she can't be strong elsewhere. However, I feel that for a working relationship, certain necessary elements need to be strong, and I was just worried that this math issue was perhaps an indicator of weakness in one of those necessary areas.

 

In this case, I have a really hard time determining if she was playing damsel in distress or not.

 

I mean, the second time when I had just asked her a math question straight up, she replied with the answer, but with a question mark, implying that she was not sure. She never mentioned anything that led me to believe she was kidding in either scenario.

 

But, come on, she couldn't even use her phone calculator? Resorting to an entire text message for one simple subtraction problem? I suppose most people would flip out at me for making "a big deal" out of this, but in my mind it's a delineation of a trend and that's what worries me. I really don't want to get into a relationship with someone if I know that when the going gets tough, my partner's going to be deadweight and rely on me for absolutely everything. Like you said, I don't want to have to baby-sit if things fall apart when I'm not there. I want to be able to trust that my partner can make good decisions.

 

Then again, I may indeed be overlooking the obvious and just looking for any justification I can to indicate that she's not the best long-term relationship material. I've been in a few relationships before that all turned out quite badly, and all for reasons that I noticed early on. This is another one of those "early on" indicators and so now I'm just worried.

 

Look at all the statements all over the math problem. Also after going through everything...

 

At one point you DO call her dumb, then you claim you don't. You DO claim you correct her quite a bit, then you claim you don't. At one point you claim she'd find this funny all funny, then you claim she'd be upset. I don't think you have a clue what you are doing emotionally in this relationship. My point - logic and brainy smarts can't get you every where.

[Eleventy]

What you found troublesome about the situation is how she went about problem solving. Had I thrown a simple math question at you and you were having an off day, you would have picked up your cell phone or a calculator. (Is it possible she simply doesn't know her cell phone has a calculator? Or, if she knows, she doesn't know where it is? I mean, I'm a fairly intelligent person, I know my phone has a calculator but I never use it so I have no idea where it is... In this instance, I might call someone I have an easy-going relationship with to help me out of a brain fart.)

 

A math question is a logical problem. How people go about solving logical problems is a mix of analysis, logics, intuition, context, emotions and, in relationships, trust and interaction.

 

The problem here is that you're trying to figure out if the two of you could solve a problem together, yet the example you use isn't usually one where two people need to figure something out. Here, the math question isn't the problem. The problem is that you're worried because you think she sould have been able to solve this problem without turning to you (I still think she just used the first excuse available to get in touch with you). I think people are arguing so much about intelligence because the example that worries you is actually a bad example of what makes or breaks a couple in tough situations. There is no way for us to know if she has the problem-solving skills that are fundamental for the two you to work as a couple based on the example you provided. No one's relationship here as ever depended on their partner's ability to answer a math question.

 

Imagine another scenario: you're out camping, and the two of you have to put up a tent without the instructions. For this, you will need the ability to work together as well as a good degree of logical thinking. How do you imagine this scenario playing out? Who is going to predominantly hold what role according to you (logics vs making sure you work well together)?

 

Right, that is exactly what I'm getting at.

 

In that scenario, though, I see her getting frustrated with the tent and leaving me to put the rest of it up.

[Eleventy]

Look at all the statements all over the math problem. Also after going through everything...

 

At one point you DO call her dumb, then you claim you don't. You DO claim you correct her quite a bit, then you claim you don't. At one point you claim she'd find this funny all funny, then you claim she'd be upset. I don't think you have a clue what you are doing emotionally in this relationship. My point - logic and brainy smarts can't get you every where.

 

In those quotes you've posted I never changed my views anywhere. I've said that I've questioned her ability, sure, but I've never outright said "she's retardedly unintelligent to the point of being an imbecile" or anything like that. I've asked if such things can be indicative, granted. I've consistently said that everything else is otherwise fine so far in the relationship. I haven't been "all over the place" like you imply.

 

I also never claimed she'd "find all this funny" -- I said she'd find the calculator comment about the gift funny. I do feel she would be upset reading this thread and I've never changed my view on that either.

 

Please do not twist my words.

[Eleventy]

You can tell from the summet that jumping is only going to hurt. But you don't need to stand at the summit for 40 days and 40 nights berating it either just because it can't give you what you need once you reach the top.

 

And this isn't meant to be a slight at you but I am sure there are many ways you don't meet up to her idealized desires either.

 

 

I have alot of experience with very bright men that were sorely lacking on emotional intelligence. There are all matters of people and intelligence. Is someone that is analytically intelligent emotionally not? Not always, of course not. I someone that is analytically smart, emotionally smart, not necessarily no.

 

I wish you would give this a girl a shot with a man/boy her age that could possibly think she is wonderful instead of having to bit his lip at what he thinks is her supposed stupidity.

 

I DO think she is wonderful. She's an amazing girl. I just have worries as a result of this situation and I feel that I am very justified in having these worries.