Reggie Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 I'm not sure there is a double standard. I , and many of my male friends, see it the same for both genders.
Athena Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 Vienna, I think you need to tell your husband the truth about your marriage. This includes telling him about the ONS's you have had over the years. Once he knows the Truth, he can better understand his situation. Telling him the truth about the affairs will not 'hurt him more' but give him more understanding and allow him to see the serial cheating for what it is -- no hope of reconciliation. If you do not tell him the truth, he will always be in pain that you two never got a second chance to make the marriage work. Please do the right thing, and tell him.
Dexter Morgan Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 Interesting how a woman posting about cheating on her H is character-assassinated (in this thread), while a man posting about cheating on his W (in another thread) is coddled. Unbelievable. nice try. you obviously haven't read my replies to cheating men.
Dexter Morgan Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 I understand that some of you have been on the other side of this issue, and will not take the bait of engaging with you in fruitless confrontation. even though with that comment, you just did:o I was and am an enabler. I know that I have issues left from the years that I dealt with the alcoholism. I don't believe it was the lack of drama that drove my husband and I apart, but I do believe that the person that he became when he got sober was quite different from the man I married ya ya...blah blah blah....excuses excuses as to why you cheat. As for the OM, I firmly believe that I need to make this decision on my own, for the good of myself and my H or XH as that may turn out. for it to be the good of your H, he DOES need to be your XH. regardless of your excuses and your portrayal of him, he deserves better than to unkowingly be the victim of a serial cheater. divorce him and set him free from you. its the decent thing to do. I am not a home wrecker. only way you wouldn't be a home wrecker is if the OM doesn't have children and a family. Once my decisions are made solidly there may be a chance for something else. This man was the impetus for me to know that I needed change in my life and to want it. good, then freakin do it already and quit wasting any more of your current husband's precious years. So, if you can dismiss this as some delusional, selfish, uncaring person's question, then go ahead and blast away at me. you said this because you say both you and the OM had unhappy marriages. Ok...I'll play devil's advocate on that point. So the question is...what was the excuse for screwing all the other men? Oh, they were unhappy too:rolleyes: Perhaps you are angry at your mate or ex-mate for doing something cruel to you. well it definitely gives us clarity in our thoughts on despicable behavior, thats for sure;) I can take it; I am a tough girl. apparantly not....you don't want to "engage" us by responding....even though you are doing so anyway. I would much more appreciate a constructive view of the many layers of issues I am dealing with here. Ok, lets forget everything you have done behind your unsuspecting husband's back. lets put all that aside. Her is something constructive. Divorce your husband, now rather than later, because he deserves to be able to move on now. Life is too short and I wouldn't think you would really want to be the one to waste his years any longer.......am I right? Perhaps the root of the matter is a codependency issue, perhaps boundary issues. I want to get to the bottom of it, because I am not a horrible person, just one who has made some horrible choices in my life at times. what is there to get to the bottom of? all you need to do is divorce your husband. You can figure yourself out on your own time and quit wasting your H's. Believe it or not, I really don't need your approval. cheaters rarely do.
jmargel Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 To the posters on here, let's just put how you feel about the 'cheating' on the back burner for a little. She is trying to find out *why* this is happening, the deep root issue. I always believed that issues such as cheating, lying, disrespecting, abuse are just 'leaves' on a weed. The real issue is what's underneath, the root of the weed. Destroy the root of the weed and you will then see the 'topics' (ie. leaves) of the weed slowly go away. Perhaps all the years you dealt with your husband's alcoholism made you resent him. Perhaps you feel upsetment that he took such a big portion of your life and even though he's the model husband now, there's that part of you that is gone from what you were put through. Maybe that's why the intimacy was destroy, how can you be intimate with someone you partly-depise because of what he put you through? So that need of intimacy is gone, and usually when such an important part is missing for so long, we end up looking to fill that void. That doesn't make us a bad person, it makes us human. Humans have certain needs, one of them is to be emotionally and physically touch/cared for. The need to fill this void surpassed your boundaries in the marriage. However the marriage was severly damaged before this affiar happened. Though the affair is damaging to the marriage, the lack of intimacy is even more. I believe what you need to deal with is *why* the lack of intimacy happened to begin with. Not sure how you were raised and what type of environment but that could also play a part. Taking responsibility includes a few steps. Finding out why this happened, letting your spouse know what happened and then making a decision based on all the facts on where you want this to all go. Can you get the intimacy back with your husband? Sure. Will it take work? Alot. Can you go off with this other man? Yep. Would it last? Statistics show there's about a 10% chance of it working out. Another thing to consider is if you would be happier being single. So you do have quite a bit of thinking to do.
hopesndreams Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 but I don't want to hurt my husband any more than I already have. The only way you can possibly hurt your husband more is if you stay with him. You have no remorse, no shame for what you have done. Just excuse after excuse...the "poor me" syndrome. If you do get together with your OM, you'll do the same to him and he to you..just with a different set of excuses.
bentnotbroken Posted June 24, 2009 Posted June 24, 2009 If she wants to really know why, she would have sought professional help instead of a site full of not necessarily qualified strangers.
tami-chan Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 VW, I think everyone is in consensus that you need to leave your husband. It is time that you stop enabling him and set him free-maybe he will find the oooomph to be his own person...be a man, away from you. To divorce him, like somebody else suggested might be the best thing-the most humane thing you can do for him and perhaps, just perhaps, he will grow a pair and come to his own. Maybe being needed by your H makes you feel valued....but the flipside is, you are unhappy and unfulfilled. Both of you are resentful of each other. He, because you are successful and seem to wear the pants in the relationship and you because he is nowhere near the man/husband you would have wanted him to be. So let him go. Let him find himself or another woman who would take care of him.
jnj express Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Hey creeks most people here are honestly trying to help based on their own, past, lifestyle, and morals, AND WE DON'T NEED YOU TO COME IN HERE MAKING SNOTTY NASTY COMMENTS
Author viennawaits Posted June 25, 2009 Author Posted June 25, 2009 Thank you jmargel for offering insightful comments. Yes, I know that the alcoholism has left me resentful. It has also left him resentful. Unless you have lived in a codependent situation, you cannot possibly understand this. I have to fight these destructive behaviors now in ALL my relationships, and it is not easy. I have not told all of the story, and judging by the comments so far, I may not want to. I feel like roadkill being attacked by vultures. After conquering the alcoholism and keeping a job (this was not his norm), Terry seemed to be doing ok. His self-confidence was up again. He is 17 years my senior, so health issues were bound to come up. He had some problems with kidney stones. No biggie. Then about 2 years ago, he went in for a routine checkup. He was diagnosed with Hep-C, and we don't have any idea how he got it. We were partyers in our younger years, but no IV drug use. Could be just about anything, but it really doesn't matter now. I supported him through the treatment, which was horrible. I watched him lose weight and not hold food down. Call it a flashback, but the memories of watching my husband detox (3 times) came back to me. I know this is an issue. And now, he says he won't live long, that he just knows it. For all you people out there that think that I am a selfish and uncaring person, you have no idea what it is like to walk in my shoes. I cannot justify my recent actions, but I can tell you that I have given my husband a lot of love over the years. I saw him through his addiction, reuniting with a son he had not seen in a decade, health problems, and now a disease that will most likely kill him. The treatment failed. He could not complete it, and if he had, there was only a 40% chance that it would kill the virus. I love him very much, but I cannot be asked to sit around and watch him give up on his life. These are my issues. I have "taken care" of things for our entire time together. I am now 35 years old, with a 52 year old husband that is probably terminally ill. His liver is already at pre-Cirrhosis level 2. The **** part of it is that we are going through this after 8 years of his sobriety. I want the best for him. I have been talking to him and we are deciding together whether we can make our relationship work. We are going to a counselor. We both love each other enough to support the other in leaving the situation. He knows how I feel about the OM. I am trying to live my truth right now. I met this man at the age of 21. I have given him almost 15 years of my life. I am trying to figure out if I can fall back in love with him and gain the intimacy back. I have paid a lot of dues in my life, but if it makes you feel better to call me names and minimize what this is and what I've lived through, DO IT.
giotto Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 I was going to comment, but I'm not now... well, I'll just say that you have all my simpathy...
jmargel Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Well now we are starting to get somewhere. From reading your last post I can tell not only do you feel upsetment by what's happened in the past but the recent event of his declining health might make you feel even more resentment. Because not only did you sacrafice so much to bring him back from the alcoholism but it was all for naught. And also you really fear of watching him slowly die, in which that's something that will become a reality if you stay. So the combination of everything got to be too much and the affair happened. At least you know why it happened. Not because you are a bad person, but because of the situation surrounding it. Though you are still responsible for your behavior. I believe the age difference is a factor as well, 17 year difference is quite a bit and it's starting to show where he needs to be in his life and what you want in yours is different. That is understandable, and he should have realized this when he was 37 and you were 20 years old. You've spent all of your youth on him, never really got a chance to see if anyone else was more suited for you. So with that, this guy comes along and you have to realize that there are billions of men out there. You probably have a better chance at winning the lottery than truly finding what you are looking for in this OM. This doesn't mean not to leave your husband, but don't leave your husband for the OM. Leave your husband for the other issues that are surrounding the marriage. I also believe that individual counseling for yourself would help you alot. If you started a relationship with this OM, you will eventually run into alot of issues as well. How old is this OM? He has his own issues to deal with and a very good chance you don't know the whole story with him. He's going to tell you what you want to hear, not what he's responsible for. You need to break these into two different issues, the affair and the problems in your marriage. Though they tangle with each other, you need to be able to address each of them seperately. Perhaps giving yourself time to clear your head by temporarily stopping contact with this OM and getting the situation straightened out with your husband first might be the best way to go. Hope this helps some.
Author viennawaits Posted June 25, 2009 Author Posted June 25, 2009 jmargel~ You have hit so many of the issues that I have known are going on for some time. Yes, I am terrified of being a widow in my 30's. No, I don't wish to watch my husband die. At 37 and 21, the age difference seemed like such a small thing, but over the years it is taking its toll. You are absolutely right to say that I should not leave my husband for the OM. I agree with you 100%. I also know that he is more a symbol of what could be than reality at this point. I have talked to him quite a bit, and he is not sugar coating anything. He is 37, has two children ages 5 and 7, his wife is Austrian, and so he has no option but to stay here until they are grown. I am a US citizen, love my family and my hometown, and do not foresee staying here in Europe for a long period of time. Believe me, I know what problems and issues he has ahead of him. I still believe that he is getting himself out of a bad situation. This has nothing to do with me. Where my husband and I have drifted apart, his wife and he have been in full battle. He told her about the affair, and she didn't even wince, but told him that she hoped he was happy. This is how bad their home life was. I can't do this for him, though. And, I know that with all I have been through, I am not emotionally ready to have a serious relationship with H or him at this point. The IC is a good idea. I did it years ago, and should do it regardless what my H decides. I have told him that we are more like the catalysts for each other to make a move (even a bad move) to change the things that are making us unhappy in our lives. If that is all it proves to be, that is OK. When giving advice and reading some of the posts out there, I sincerely hope that I give people more benefit of the doubt; that I do not pretend to know their situation fully. I am grateful to people like you that have offered me some insight into the underlying issues that you don't always see when you are in the middle of a bad situation. I am not wired to be a cheater. I was faithful to my husband before we were married (4 years) and for many years of our marriage. I do not have a mental disorder. I certainly have problems and issues; ones that can and will be worked out with a trained professional. BTW~ My parents are happily married after 37 years, both grandparents for over 50. I am not a sociopath and if anyone thinks that I don't feel remorse, they simply do not know me. I also believe that our lives are judged in the end by the sum total of our contributions to this life, not simply by the mistakes. I will do my best to right what I can and to come out a better person in the end. I will also do anything in my power to help this wonderful man that I married find his happiness, whether that includes me or not. Thanks for the listen. Hope all of those that decided to crap on me feel better about yourselves, as I surely have done you a favor now too. Good deed for the day complete.
Dexter Morgan Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 VW, I think everyone is in consensus that you need to leave your husband. It is time that you stop enabling him and set him free-maybe he will find the oooomph to be his own person...be a man, away from you. To divorce him, like somebody else suggested might be the best thing-the most humane thing you can do for him and perhaps, just perhaps, he will grow a pair and come to his own. Maybe being needed by your H makes you feel valued....but the flipside is, you are unhappy and unfulfilled. Both of you are resentful of each other. He, because you are successful and seem to wear the pants in the relationship and you because he is nowhere near the man/husband you would have wanted him to be. So let him go. Let him find himself or another woman who would take care of him. Bravo on a job well done of attempting to pretend to care about what the right thing is for the H, while disguising the obvious bashing of him in an oh so subtle way.
Dexter Morgan Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 jmargel~ You have hit so many of the issues that I have known are going on for some time. Yes, I am terrified of being a widow in my 30's. No, I don't wish to watch my husband die. At 37 and 21, the age difference seemed like such a small thing, but over the years it is taking its toll. You are absolutely right to say that I should not leave my husband for the OM. I agree with you 100%. so you think staying with him and continuing to cheat on him is the better alternative?
Chrome Barracuda Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 Dexter is right, this woman needs to make a choice and live with it! What part of forever did you not understand??? Either your married or your not in my book. You can basically justify it in your mind all the stuff you been through to garner sympathy but your still cheating, your still involved with the destruction of this man's marriage, you are still his willing accomplice, you just want to feel justified in what you feel your doing is right. but it's not! It's not! you are wrong! Why dont you tell your husband the truth that your still flip-flopping and you still want the other man. I mean your husband has overcome alot just for you to shut down all because now you want to sow your wild oats. give it a break your not fooling anyone. If you want out, just leave! Your husband deserves better than a grown woman who cant make up her damn mind! If the situations was reversed wouldnt you agree?
Reggie Posted June 25, 2009 Posted June 25, 2009 I actually do have some of the same expierience as you. My dad was an abusive alocoholic and my first wife became one after our son was born severly disabled. Living with an alcoholic is brutal, to say the least. That said, I think you still realize that your choice to have an affair was not justified by your H's illness. Like me, you had many other options, most notably divorce. I stayed way too long, as well, and it took its toll. I thought about cheating at times, too. I got nothing back but abuse from my wife. But, how do you rationalize the effect your actions are having and will have on your OM's family? It is one of the most traumatic things that can happen to a spouse, infidelity. This woman has done you no harm. You have no history with her that has caused any resentment like that you have for your husband. But, you are a player in this abuse that is being perpetrated on her and the kids. You chose to marry a man considerably older than you and had the option of getting out if it was not working. I'm sure he may have felt he was making sacrifices as well due to any incompatibility attributable to the age difference. It is not easy relating to someone so much younger, with very lttle in the way of the same frame of reference. Folks that succeed in these May/December marriages seem to realize that it is not just the older person deriving all the benefit from the realitonship due to the partner's youth. The younger partner is also getting some desirable qualities not found as often in younger people(maybe not in your case, with his poor work ethic and alcohol abuse). I do not think you are a sociopath, as you are demonstrating some concern about your actions. But , it is troubling, the lack of insight into the effect your actions are having on the OM's family.
tami-chan Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 Bravo on a job well done of attempting to pretend to care about what the right thing is for the H, while disguising the obvious bashing of him in an oh so subtle way. Thank you. I didn't think it was subtle.
Author viennawaits Posted June 26, 2009 Author Posted June 26, 2009 When did I ever say that I intended to continue the affair and stay with my husband? I don't understand where this came from. My original post was about being in conflict about the decision I have to make. I never even entertained the idea that no decision would be made. This has just happened in the last couple of weeks. If I decided today to leave my husband, it would take months to tie up all the loose ends. I will not leave him without health insurance and life insurance for his son. I will most likely be legally married to him for a long time to come for reasons totally unrelated to my feelings toward him. I know very well that if I decide to do stay with him and work it out that the relationship with OM must stop completely. OM knows this too. Wow, do you really think that I am that evil? Confused, upset, guilty, YES. Sociopathic and remorseless, NO! I am not justifying my actions. I was 100% wrong in this. I have told H and OM this. I take responsibility for my actions, but I cannot turn back the clock. I must now make decisions, attempt to deal with some obvious issues, and maybe someday have a healthy relationship. That healthy relationship may very well not be either of the ones I am talking about here. In the meantime, I will not do anything to prevent my H from receiving the best medical care available to him. Under the current US health care system, he will be uninsurable back in the US. I will give him all that I can to assure that his health needs are met. If you want to beat me up on this, go ahead. Being legally married for this reason and being physically separated seems like a humane thing to do for me.
Reggie Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 You completely ignored the issue of the effect of your actions on the man's spouse and kids. Why is that? What is it about you, that allowed you to do this to someone who has done yu no harm?
Dexter Morgan Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 Thank you. I didn't think it was subtle. It wasn't really, anyone could pick up on your obvious bashing of a BS...as if it is any surprise.
Dexter Morgan Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 When did I ever say that I intended to continue the affair and stay with my husband? you didn't. You said you agreed that you shouldn't leave your husband. And if you don't leave your husband, you WILL cheat again because you are a serial cheater. I don't understand where this came from. My original post was about being in conflict about the decision I have to make. then make a decision...but if the decision is to stay with your husband, then there isn't any way you will remain faithful to him. I think most here agree that the ONLY decision that makes sense is to get a divorce since you can't keep from helping yourself to other men. I never even entertained the idea that no decision would be made. no, but if you stay with your husband, its pretty much the same thing because you aren't about to change with regards to cheating. so if you DECIDE to stay with your H, its pretty much going to be the same thing as not making a decision This has just happened in the last couple of weeks. and the other men you cheated on your husband with behind his back? Those just happened in the last couple of weeks too?? If I decided today to leave my husband, it would take months to tie up all the loose ends. so what? I will not leave him without health insurance and life insurance for his son. Well that is where he is in a real pickle since he moved with you so you could have a good job and he hasn't found one. as far as life insurance for his son....what difference does that make? you are the breadwinner are you not? And if its life insurance for your son you are worried about, then get some. I know very well that if I decide to do stay with him and work it out that the relationship with OM must stop completely. uh, no, YOU'RE CHEATING MUST STOP COMPLETELY. it wasn't just one man you ever cheated on your husband with, you are a multi-cheater. Confused, upset, guilty, YES. Sociopathic and remorseless, NO! I am not justifying my actions. I was 100% wrong in this. I have told H and OM this. I take responsibility for my actions, but I cannot turn back the clock. ok, fair enough. so if you stay with your husband, how are you going to make sure you don't help yourself to any more men? In the meantime, I will not do anything to prevent my H from receiving the best medical care available to him. Under the current US health care system, he will be uninsurable back in the US. I will give him all that I can to assure that his health needs are met. If you want to beat me up on this, go ahead. Being legally married for this reason and being physically separated seems like a humane thing to do for me. So is he unable to hold a job? So what you are saying is that you will stay with him because of medical insurance, yet separate so you can do whatever you want with whoever you want? wow....just wow....word cannot begin to describe how I feel for your husband. ok, then carry on....stay married to him legally so he can get health insurance, but separate physically. That way you can stay with the OM if you like, or go back to having your one night stands. this way your husband is taken care of medically, and you can get yourself taken care of sexually.
tami-chan Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 It wasn't really, anyone could pick up on your obvious bashing of a BS...as if it is any surprise. and what's the purpose of pointing it out? oh...i get it, you want to make sure everyone gets it so they can "bash" me back...... ````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` VW, it is commendable that you want to take care of your husband-a husband who has probably not held up to his promise in the past to be there for you always, to take care of you, etc. he might not have broken the promise of fidelity but he has broken some equally important promises that eroded the foundation of your marriage. Maybe your H will agree to being "legally married" to you (so he has access to medical insurance) and you live separate lives-that way the benefits (which he needs)stay. The problem will arise if he won't agree with it(his choice, therefore his responsibilty)....or you will meet someone (like your OM) who wants all or nothing from you. But at any rate, you have to present to him what you can offer in the "marriage" and what your needs are and hopefully come up with what's acceptable between the two of you. I am almost sure he will take what you can offer, so you can begin to live a "truer" life. Btw, hcv is not a death sentence. It is manageable and if he has excllent response to the therapy he might get to the point were his viral load is sustained. Although, you did say his liver is already in pre-cirrhosis level- I am sure his past alcoholism did not help-he might have had an already compromised liver way before he contracted HCV.
Dexter Morgan Posted June 26, 2009 Posted June 26, 2009 and what's the purpose of pointing it out? first explain what the purpose is of bashing a man that moved with his wife so she could pursue her career, is sick, and is being cheated on. Get back to me with that purpose, then I'll answer the question above. VW, it is commendable that you want to take care of your husband-a husband who has probably not held up to his promise in the past to be there for you always, to take care of you, etc. She said he is a sweet and caring mate for her and is really her best friend. He had a problem with alcohol that she said he kicked. When someone has a problem, they need help...not to be seen as some piece of sh#t from people like you that doesn't deserve the support from the person they made their vows to. And where do you get that he wouldn't be there for her and wouldn't take care of her if she needed? he might not have broken the promise of fidelity but he has broken some equally important promises that eroded the foundation of your marriage. such as? yes, he had the alcoholism, but he kicked that and did right by her. and again, that was 8 years ago and she said he is a loving and caring mate. so if there are other "important promises" that he broke...please...do tell us what promises he broke that he made to her.
Recommended Posts